The tail end of last year was a rough one, for me. There was that aortic dissection, of course, with its associated pants-crappings and hospital stays, but right before that I smacked my friendly little Nissan Pao into a deer, yet again. Clearly, Odocoileus virginianus and I are sworn adversaries, seeing as how it was right around a year ago that I just got the car back after smacking another stupid deer, even harder.
I’m so tired of crashing my car into hundreds of pounds of idiotic venison, and I’m pretty sure the deer aren’t so crazy about this arrangement, either. So why do we keep doing this bloodthirsty dance?
And, even more baffling, why did my insurance company declare the car a total loss? I saw this notice in my insurance app and felt an unpleasant pang in my stomach:
Total loss. They’re just such grim-sounding words! It sounds so final, like an HR-talk way to talk about something getting annihilated. I’ll leave out what company I use, because I’m not here to shame anyone, as I think this is a pretty industry-wide sort of practice. In fact, I know it is, since we had an insurance insider write up a story for us that pretty much said just that: they’re in the business of totaling cars.
Also, what the hell is that “Gene Nissan” thing? Who’s Gene? Is that the founder of Nissan that has been kept secret all these years? Gene “The Machine” Nissan?
What makes all of this so baffling to me is just how un-totaled the Pao actually is. In fact, this deer-strike incident resulted in much less damage than the last time, and the insurance company didn’t total the car then, despite being so much worse off, with actual mechanical damage in addition to the bodywork. Look, here’s the front end of the Pao after both deer-smackings, the first one in 2021, and then the recent one, late last year:
As you can see, the 2021 impact was a lot worse, with damage to the hood, grille, foglamp, headlight, and the radiator behind all that. This was not considered a total loss. This current situation only involves the headlight, hood, fender, and the headlight bracket inside needs to be bent back. It’s significantly less severe. I can source a headlight pretty cheaply online, and I have a body guy here in town that can do the fiberglass work on the hood and the tiny amount needed on the fender. There’s no need to order new parts.
I took pictures of the damage and uploaded them into the app, thinking that would be a starting point, and some insurance claims adjuster would reach out and perhaps inspect the car in person, if needed. I was very wrong.
Also, right after the wreck, all of this got sort of put on hold because, well, that’s when my chest exploded and I had to stay in the hospital for a while, and couldn’t really follow up on any of this. But their adjusters kept busy, and came up with an estimate that, as a work of fiction, is pretty astounding:
Look at all that! The total is $8,317.84! What? How did they get there – that’s significantly more than last time! Looking in more detail at this estimate, though, it starts to make sense, because the adjusters seem determined to replace everything. They’re replacing things that weren’t even damaged: bumper bar, bumper overrider, foglamp, grille, radiator support, mount panel. Oh, and there’s even at least one part there I’m not sure exists – the headlight bucket should be part of the headlight assembly, not separate?
They also seem to be assigning labor for work on the door, which is undamaged, and of course there’s no consideration given to the repair of any parts like the hood or fender, just a wholesale replacement.
I’m just baffled by this whole thing. And I tried calling my insurance company to say, hey, there’s really no need to make this a total loss, the damage just isn’t that bad, but because this has already been registered with the North Carolina Insurance Something Agency Department Something Something Bureau, there’s no way to change or amend or cancel or anything. It’s done. The Rubicon has been crossed, someone said alea iacta est, and that’s that.
Now, this may not even be bad for me; they’ll offer me some sort of payout if I want to get rid of the car, which could be decent money, or, should I decide to keep it (and I will, I’m very attached to my Pao) and fix it, I’ll get some other amount, which will very likely be a good bit more than just a more realistic assessment of the repairs would have been. Whatever this costs to fix, it’s not going to be over eight grand, that I’m sure of. So I’m not sure this is even beneficial for the insurance company?
In short, I fundamentally don’t understand how insurance companies work, I think. I’m going to hope the payout will be enough for me to just fix this on my own, and then move on with my life, preparing for that next deer I suppose I’ll invariably hit. Maybe I’ll see if I can find a surplus cowcatcher?
Not Again! Stupid Deer: Cold Start
I’m An Insurance Adjuster And I’m Going To Total Your Car (And Hate Doing It)
After More Than A Year, I Finally Got My Nissan Pao Back And Damn It Feels Good Except For A Coolant Leak
Instead of a cow catcher on the Pao put a snow plow on The Marshal.
I cant believe how ridiculously interesting that was.You taught me many many things in 2 minutes
*edit I wish there were insurance companies who did indeed fit used parts and less than perfect paint blending.That would be a useful option for some.We dont all need it fixed like new
Jesus Christ man, can you stop being so goddamn smart? It’s almost exhausting.
(Please take this comment as the compliment it is intended)
So why not let them pay you whatever value you can talk them up to, buy it back for whatever you can talk them down to and use it as a donor for a new Pao? Or fix it and rebuild the title, whichever is cheaper/easier/faster.
Either way it’s story fodder.
I’ve had friends who have bought the car back from the insurer and patched it up.I think most insurance companies have a price on hand in case a customer wants to do that.You get to keep your car and kind of make money on the deal,even after the deductible.
The one big problem -in our country at least- is that insurance isnt cheap for a damaged car.No matter which company you try,they see you car has damage and assume you don’t worry about running into others.
I’ve never had an insurance company ask to see my cars before insuring them. It wouldn’t make sense either when damage could be completely unrelated to my driving.
My insurance company gets everything it needs to set my rates from my address, my driving record, my claims record, my vehicle registrations, my vehicle’s claims history (e.g. carfax) and my payments.
So far it’s worked out OK.
Ok i should explain more. When filling out the forms they ask has it any damage.It’s easy to lie but that might go badly if i make a claim
Ah. I don’t recall anything like that but I have had the same carrier for quite a while. IIRC damage needs to repaired to OEM, not “custom” as “custom” would be too hard to reproduce.
Hoping I don’t come across as pedantic pointing this out, but the fenders on a Pao are plastic and not dentable. Otherwise I’m with you on how BS this estimate it.
My Pao, identical to yours is insured through Hagerty. There’s NO WAY I’m trusting a non-classic car ins. co. to cover it after the imbroglio I suffered when a drunk redneck partying with two hookers rear-ended my TR6 at a stop light. That car was insured through USAA and despite the seemingly repairable damage they totaled it for much less arguably than it was worth. It was an insult to my intelligence.
Hagerty lets me set my own value, within reason on my cars and I valued my mint condition Pao at $12,000. Kick whatever ins. co. you have to the curb, please.
I’ve had a little experience with agreed value.It does seem to solve several problems, including the write-off curse. Does it have any drawbacks?
It slightly increased the premium when I did it for my car, but for a classic 100% worth it
Hagerty won’t insure some cars you’d think they’re ideal for. They declined to insure my 6.9 for… Reasons. Not enough comps? I dunno. Liberty Mutual had no issue, and the rep was super excited because his mom used to have one (!)
Hagerty won’t insure the car if you don’t garage it though.
Have a Harley with straight pipes precede you. Spooking deer at a safe distance is the only case I’ve heard of were loud pipes save lives. Or put an exhaust cut out on your car.
An open header 1.0L? I like it
I think you’ll end up with some kind of branded title, which will make it hard to insure again and hard to sell. But if you don’t plan to ever sell it, maybe you can make it work. Just carry the bare minimum coverage if you can find it.
Bare minimum coverage is just asking for another deer strike.
But if the insurance company isn’t gonna fix it, then anything above bare minimum coverage is just throwing money away.
I’m VERY skeptical of rebuilt titles, and think you should only buy when you know the quality of the rebuild.
That said, I’ve never run into issues insuring them. Also, not hard to sell if you accept that the price point is going to be significantly lower. You just gotta know the numbers going in
“Gene Nissan” is probably “generic Nissan” because their system doesn’t have a Pao
That’s probably a ship load funnier than you intended?
Now waiting for Nissan to live up to their rep and brand a model ‘Generic’
EVERYONE! KNIVES OUT!
Torch, why don’t you use a company like Hagerty to insure this car? Cars don’t have to be old for them to insure, they just need to be “special interest” of some kind and their underwriters will do it. I’ve found them very easy to work with – heck they even insure my 2017 BMW R Nine T Racer which is a motorcycle, but.. special interest. I’m sorry this happened.. hindsight is 20/20 but something to consider for the future. They would not have totaled this car.
Curious to know why Hagerty (who insures my two ugly antique trucks) can be worse when it comes to claims—can you elaborate?
Make that 7. Waited three hours for a tow from them, and during the process, they kept saying drivers accepted the gig, then cancelled. Eventually gave up and paid out of pocket for a tow myself, and cancelled the Hagerty roadside assurance.
Make that eight. People insured by Hagerty on Oppositelock also report that the company’s roadside assistance is anything but assistance.
Their valuations were tricky for me too. They seem to rely exclusively on BringATrailer, which doesn’t work well for really rare stuff that doesn’t come up often. On the other hand, it works out in your favor if you have a bad example of a great car.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ve had them for about four years and haven’t had to call them for anything (fingers crossed) but a friend lost his truck in a garage fire and he said the claim process was smooth and fast (this was six years ago).
Also, at least in California, Hagerty will only insured garaged cars. I would love to go with Hagerty, but I have a carport, not a garage.
Huh, Hagerty insures my driveway-kept turds in Texas. May be a regional thing.
Yeah, likely. Good to know that the garage-thingy is only in California. Thanks for the update/correction, Hagerty seems like a reasonably sane operation worth supporting.
Hagerty also requires garages for insuring any cars in NY
No, they require one in Delaware, too. Or at least my policy does- I think there is an option for outdoor parking that just charges you more
Oh yeah, that’s why they turned me down. I had forgotten about that exclusion.
Here in Michigan, only garaged cars as well. I don’t think it’s a regional thing, I think they must be housed in a garage everywhere. But, I can’t say for sure.
Well, I’ve been using them for my old cars since the late 90’s and never had an issue with valuation (they have also increased the value of my cars before I did in several cases). I have only made light claims and they all went well.
Regarding the towing, I have never used it. I have AAA plus which gives me 100 miles of towing at no charge to me. BUT, sometimes it can be a wait with AAA as well. Hagerty likely uses the same model AAA does, they “bid” each tow and the low bidder gets it. The problem is, the low bidder will often get another call that pays better even en route and will cancel you. It’s infuriating but that’s how they keep costs down.
Just don’t break down guys, geeze.. haha jk
Is it insurable if it’s totaled, even after you fix it?
Yes, you can get insurance on salvage-title cars.
One observer of the deer incident reportedly exclaimed “Pao, right in the kisser.”
not surprising in the least. Having collision coverage on an old beater is just for “worst case scenario” but ANY time you make a claim it’s an automatic total. so you have this insurance you are paying for but you can’t really benefit from it unless the car is smashed to bits.
“Maybe I’ll see if I can find a surplus cowcatcher?”
Maybe you could bolt the Changli to the front of the Pao, as a crumple zone?
Is it possible to just pretend nothing ever happened? Blame your meds?? “Sorry, guys, Imma fix this myself for about 900 bucks.”
No. Fuck that. While I can’t 100% guarantee a successful outcome, I can’t think of at least three things to say to the insurance company to make them reconsider. Please let me help. This is not the kind of stress you need right now and you already know how annoying and persistent I can be. I have absolutely no fear of insurance companies and do have some idea of the things that they like to avoid.
Actually as one who shops insurance auctions, I hate to admit, I have some love for the process. Last year, I bought two physically perfect Prius V’s at insurance auctions. One had three chewed wires at the airbag module. One wire broken, two bare but intact. Car ran with an airbag light on. One does not have to be a genius to fix this. Did anyone even look at this?
The other one was not running. The hybrid battery cover was off. There was signs of mice once I looked closely. I jumped it and it ran. The 12 volt was recharged. The hybrid battery was tested and was okay. (I rebuild them, which was not necessary on this one.)
Cleaned up the car and was ready to sell it. At that point, I got nervous about what could be wrong that I might have missed. Checked Carfax (not always a reliable resource but it was here) and found it had been serviced a month before i got it. The dealer was nice enough to report the issue to me.
Apparently a mouse got into the hybrid battery. Rather than go any further, they totaled it. Thank You, State Farm!
Battery was okay. The dealer had removed a mouse nest. They wanted to replace the battery, customer did not. I tested and guaranteed the battery and it is fine.
I have also been bit on some insurance cars.
Caveat Emptor.
Bottom line: Insurance companies are not David Tracy. And it they fix it, and you do not like the repair, they are fucked. They have to pay for the repair at a stupid rate and pay you anyway. Totalling is the American way.
Keep the car Jason. Work a deal where you get to keep it and/or just fix it.
And get well!
tom in maine
Great post! There’s a whole economy employing untold numbers devoted to totaled (but not really) vehicles. It’s fascinating in it’s capitalist way.
I spoke with my mechanic who has worked with many dealers including Toyota and he agrees. The dealer will have you replace the wiring harness. However, most mechanics will not. One broken wire, soldered and heat shrunk is not an issue where I live for inspection. That repair versus a couple grand is a questionable repair. I understand your thoughts and concern. If you want to do it differently, God bless ya.
We only replace HV lines. We never splice inside a battery or anywhere on the HV system. There were none broken, chewed or damaged. Everything was checked. And it was clean and dry.
I have rebuilt hundreds of Prius batteries and know what mouse detritus can do. This was not one of them. We warranty the battery regardless on the cars we sell.
I am not going to get into a flame war over this. I was solely sharing what I found. If you disagree, that is fine with me.
What if they just bought you a new headlight (ultimately saving them money) and you signed a waiver promising to just drive on low speed local roads and make peace with the deer? You got a minivan coming anyway and the Pao is pretty good upgrade to the Changli.
There is no peace with deer because the aren’t intelligent enough to notice. Now pieces of deer are different. IYKYK.
Oi, mate, when you have it fixed, put a roo bar on the front. Third time’s a charm, ya know.
Came here to say exactly this. Paging Laurence!
When my ’66 T-bird was wrecked, I got a quote from a hot rod shop that it’d be about $9k-10k to fix it. Insurance valued it at 12k but declared it a total loss. Frame wasn’t even bent or anything, it was purely cosmetic damage, but ehh… insurance hates old/weird cars and will do anything to get one off the road, simply because they are non-standard to repair.
At this point, I think it’s a good idea to accept salvage titles as being okay. It’s so easy for a car to be “totaled” by the smallest and least consequential things nowadays, that as long as you know how a car got its salvage title and what was done to fix it, it should be fine. I’m gonna fix the T-bird regardless, it’s totally salvageable.
A 1990? I’m surprised they fixed it the last time.
I had a 1990 Pontiac 6000. Beautiful condition. So they made what, a million of these? No shortage of parts. Back about this time in 2001, I slid into a snowmobile trailer where the driver pulled in front of me. The trailer sliced through the headlights and grille, and crinkled a fender. No damage to the bumper, core support, or other structure. Insurance wanted to total it. I fought with them and they got a district manager to look at it. He said ok they will fix it but never will again. So after the repair I dropped collision coverage. And never had it on anything to this day. Just the barebones PLPD. With what I’ve saved I can afford the occasional fix. So likewise I’ve never had a car loan which required the full coverage. If anything needs fixed I just source my own parts. And body shops ask you straight up if you’re paying for it yourself, in which case they’ll cut you a deal.
I believe if you’re paying for a service (full coverage) you should get its benefit of repair. Now lately I’m being told by coworkers that Michigan insurance companies have a right to take your car if they consider it totaled, and not allow you to repair it and put it back on the road, even with inspection.
Fuck insurance companies. Don’t pay for what you won’t get. Don’t make claims. Keep your car in your own control.
So, a little research revealed why the deer can’t resist the PAO. Originally named Nissan Cherry Stores. Maybe get some hoods for the headlights and give them the angry tilt to make them dang deer think twice.
https://www.hotcars.com/adorable-vintage-jdm-car-a-detailed-look-at-nissan-pao/
I know what company (same initials as San Francisco) that is, because I recognize that screencap from still dealing with a total loss due to hail with the same company. The valuation they provided is $5-7,000 less than the market, because they are using the base models as comps instead of the actual model I have. When I provide accurate comps, they take 3 weeks (like clockwork), to respond and then say they couldn’t verify them because they sold already. It has been months. But because their valuation group uses the wrong trim, I don’t trust them in arbitration. I am so frustrated. Insurance companies are the ultimate legalized scam.
I despise SF. Used them for a decade, kept my nose clean, and they just exploded my rates and wouldn’t budge. Left them and never looked back. If I’m going to get scammed, I’ll do so at the most reasonable rate. Now that my car is paid off, I’ll decide at one point if I’m willing to reduce coverage for the vehicle (but leave medical and coverage for passengers, etc intact).
I had State Farm, moved from an apartment building with a shared parking lot in New York to a house with a private drive in a rural area of Delaware and they jacked the rates up like crazy, when I asked why, the person on their customer service line didn’t have an answer aside from “that’s just how it happens sometimes”.
So I dumped them for another company that quoted less than I had been paying State Farm in NY for the same coverage, then State Farm reported me as uninsured to the NYDOT, which I ignored because I was no longer living in New York, no longer had a New York drivers license, no longer had any cars registered in New York, and had all my cars validly insured with another company. Ignoring it came back to bite me several years later, when I moved to a new house and had to get a new Delaware driver’s license with my new address on it, DelDOT wouldn’t process the address change because I was flagged in New York over the reported insurance issue. Was easy to straighten out, took a few phone calls and I had to pay a small fee to New York, but it was pretty annoying
I stayed with SF for like 30 years because I valued my relationship with my agent and knew he’d be there for me. Then my van was stolen while I was in Dallas with my cargo trailer. The trailer was not stolen, leaving me with a trailer and no way to get it home to Denver.
Come to find out my agent was prohibited from being involved by SF policy so I was on my own in more ways than one.
Total cluster.
Sounds familiar to me. It’s truly terrible.
Made a claim on a boat incident. SF cancelled my insurance and didn’t tell me. The worst.
The worst
I ended up ditching SF after a home insurance issue…some bored neighborhood kids thought it would be fun to spend an evening kicking doors, and they kicked my front door so hard that the frame broke. SF never even sent anyone to actually look at the door, and instead sent me an itemized breakdown showing how it could be ‘repaired’ (seriously???) for just under my deductible. So glad I wasn’t with them when a kid rear-ended my Jeep at a stop sign.
Sounds right. I will be looking for new insurance very soon.
Good idea. It seems the only thing they’re good at is spending premiums on getting celebrities and athletes in their commercials. It’s like paraphrasing that old adage, hire someone to do your job if they drive a middle of the road car. You know they’re doing fine but not misspending a bunch of money on lavish things. It reflects in what you get for services.
Get that paperwork taken care of ASAP and then you can add the Pao to the list of cars that DT needs to fix. I hear he’s traveling with a great set of tools.
And he’s already on his way to Jason’s house!
There’s a story here. Insurance rates are mostly up across the board, and we know insurance companies love to have adjusters total out cars. There’s too much unnecessary waste and we shoulder the increased costs. That said, some of this is also due to poor driving habits developed under COVID and the increased cost and complexity of cars (thank you, NHTSA).