Plastic! Since its invention in the 20th century, this versatile material has taken over the world. Automakers love the stuff, using it to replace more expensive metal components wherever possible. It’s a popular trend with the cost cutters and one that enrages owners in equal measure. For as Nissan demonstrates, when you go plastic, it’s not always fantastic.
Meet the Nissan Rogue. From 2022, it shipped with the KR15DDT inline-three engine, good for 201 horsepower and 225 pound-feet of torque. It was efficient, decently powerful, and generally considered fit for purpose in a compact SUV. It also featured a plastic oil pan.
Nissan is far from the only automaker to employ plastic oil pans over traditional steel or aluminum parts. However, when it came to the Rogue, it made a critical design error. It takes only a minor twist to destroy the part, and then you’re left with no oil at all!
Twist With Care
It all comes down to the oil pan drain plug. On the Nissan Rogue, despite the plastic oil pan, the drain plug itself is still a metal. It threads into a metal insert that is heat-set into the plastic pan itself. The problem is that if you over-torque the drain plug, it simply rips the metal insert right out of the oil pan. Suddenly you’ve got an oil pan with a big open drain hole and nothing to screw back into it.
At this point, your oil pan is trashed. Since it’s plastic, you can’t re-thread it, and you’d have a hell of a time reinstalling the heat-set insert once it’s trashed. Someone could manufacture larger heat-set inserts to fix this problem, but it would be messy, hard to install, and highly likely they’d leak in short order.
Realistically, your only recourse is to buy a new oil pan. The OEM part will cost you a healthy $296.93 from Nissan USA, including a new gasket and drain plug. Alternatively, an aftermarket part will set you back $60 or so on Amazon.
Amusingly, forum posts note the problem doesn’t always make itself obvious when tightening the plug up. If the plug has been over-torqued, it may still sit in place for the time being. Then, when the next tech goes to untighten the drain plug, the insert comes with it, and the oil pan has to be replaced.
“It’s user error!” you shout. “Not Nissan’s fault!” That might be a fair assessment. Regardless, the Nissan Rogue has a low torque spec for the drain plug. You’re not supposed to exceed 25 foot-pounds when installing it. It’s not devastatingly low, but it’s low enough that it’s easy to exceed without trying. It’s lower than the spec for the 2022 Honda Civic (30 foot-pounds), but higher than a modern Ford F-150 (19 foot-pounds). However, neither of those vehicles is widely known for having an easy-strip oil pan.
Plenty of mechanics have run into this problem. Often, the pan doesn’t fail instantly on over-torquing—instead, the threaded insert comes out the next time someone tries to remove the drain plug.
In any case, the problem is so bad that Nissan felt the need to issue a bulletin in January 2022, just a few months after the KR15DDT engine hit the US market. “NEVER tighten the drain plug greater than its specified torque,” reads the notice, emphasis as per the original. It hints that Nissan quickly identified a spate of pan-stripping incidents shortly after the new engine hit the market.
Of course, you can do some damage by over-torquing the drain plug on just about any vehicle. On a traditional steel or aluminum pan, you can still strip the threads. However, you have to turn a heck of a lot harder to do so. For example, the torque spec on a Ford Crown Victoria is 44 foot-pounds for models with the aluminum oil pan. You can exceed that to some degree without damage. Even if you do trash the threads, you can still generally save the pan. You can either rethread to a slightly larger diameter or fit a helicoil insert so you don’t have to pull the whole sump.
It is entirely possible to make a plastic oil pan that doesn’t suffer from this issue. Notably, BMW used plastic transmission pans on the E90 that used a simple twist-lock plastic drain plug. They avoid the over-torquing problem because you don’t so much torque the plug as twist it into place. You’re also aware from the outset that you’re working with something fragile because the plug itself is plastic, too.
Another solution is just to better design the heat-set insert so that it doesn’t pull out when lightly over-torqued. Designing the insert with a flange on the back would make manufacturing more complicated, but would also make it far harder to pull out of the oil pan without really wailing on your socket wrench. It’s unclear whether or not Nissan has actually made any changes to the oil pan in later model years. For now, the problem is most well documented with 2022 and 2023 models.
Ultimately, Nissan won’t face a huge backlash on this one, beyond a loss of customer goodwill. Every time a threaded insert is yanked out of a Rogue’s oil pan, it can just shout “OVERTORQUE!” and point to the official specs.
Still, this problem happens often enough to suggest Nissan could have created a tougher oil pan from the outset. In any case, if you own a Rogue yourself, forewarned is forearmed. Stick to that torque spec religiously when you’re doing your own oil changes, and make sure your mechanics are doing the same.
Image credits: Nissan, Amazon, Bruce & Shark, Small Engine Guys via YouTube screenshot
I didn’t think Nissans leaked oil through anything but their combustion chambers on the way to the exhaust.
The plastic oil pan on my Sierra uses a quarter turn oil plug. No fine threads to strip and if the monkeys at a quick lube shop try to uggs-dugga it on, they’re even too dumb to work the quick lube job.
Looks like a good use case for the Fumoto valve drain plug replacement
I wanna know if this was really even worth it. I can’t imagine it weighing less, the mold for it has to be expensive due to the rib structure with draft and round, and depending on the mold quality, it’s going to wear out faster as nylon/glass filled nylon is hard on molds, the list goes on and on. They’re not saving much if any assembly time, someone has to put the plug threads in. Now they gotta stock more parts, run the tool more often which will wear it out faster yet because they need to make so many pans. There is a time and place for plastic, this isn’t one of them.
But try explaining all of that to the bean counters who can’t even replace their lawn mowers spark plug.
It’s a tough one to judge without knowing their design constraints. My initial thought was that the plastic pans could have a lot shallower draft than a stamped metal pan that requires a deep draw – but then they have all of those gussets on the inside to stiffen things up and you’re taking up space you saved with the tight draft angles.
The big issue I see with plastic pans is how prone they are to abuse and the consequences of that abuse. A big dent on a metal pan might be something that needs fixing, but it’s probably not stranding you. And maybe there’s a skid plate in most cases, but it’s also a part that needs to be serviceable and I guaran-goddamn-tee most cars on the road are driving around with over-torqued oil drain plugs.
Looking at that pan, it’s so shallow that it’s almost a sheet. In metal, they may have had to add a stiffener. A stiffener adds at least one part plus welding.
FWIW Autozone sells a cast aluminum pan for 90 bucks retail.
I’m not concerned with draft of the pan itself but the draft and round of the rib structure. They’ll lose time just opening that CAD model…Now go machine it and run that mold with shitty ass nylon regrind. It’s no wonder stock is hard to come by. They wear out faster and they’re hard to make and they must fit precisely. This isn’t plastic buckets.
CAD has come a long way, it takes less than a minute to load an entire engine.
A pressed steel pan would have been cheaper, maybe, but the NVH would be worse. Also with a plastic pan the seal can be pre-assembled to reduce assembly time, and that saves money. Also a nice chunky seal means you can live with a bigger flatness tolerance on the pan (and therefore a shorter cycle time, which saves more money).
Some CAD has. But not the CAD being used in automotive. That was probably designed in a mechanical CAD program with a kernel from the 70s or 80s. Most of these mechanical design programs are single threaded. Lay a complex rib structure plus rounds and draft, and you’re bound by your clock speed. SolidWorks, Creo, NX, Inventor, Catia. They’ll tell you they are “multi-thread” capable, but that’s usually add-ons that have been authored in the last 10-20 years, not the core geometric foundation of mechanical cad. that is still single threaded and will be until someone rewrites the whole thing.
You can make lightweight models, sure, that’s probably what the engine was, but that’s no good for creating a mold from. Even if said engine is an assembly full of fully featured solid models, its certainly then loaded creatively, only what you see, until you start to dig deeper does it start to load it. This piece though, it’s a single model. Nothing to hide. Unless you make a lightweight viewable of it, it will take some time to open. Maybe not 5 minutes anymore, but it won’t be instant.
I knew a little hole in the wall shop that had a contact at the local Walmart auto center. Multiple times a week, Walmart would send this shop cars with stripped out oil drain plug threads. Imagine what the average quick lube tech is going to do to these Nissans.
I am pretty sure they don’t plan for the Jatco to survive past 80k miles. at the current 10K oil interval they suggest(to again plan for obsolescence at 80K mile) the pan only really has to last 7 time of the on/off cycle. It’s a gamble the old trickster from the middle east made and somehow stuck around.
I usually defend Nissan in the comments to some extent, but the KR15DDT is just cursed, it’s a bad design.
And the plastic pan is the least of its problems.
My buddies 2019 f-150 had a plastic oil pan. The metal insert was loose and leaked all the oil out, causing the engine to seize.
My used 1999 300M had a stressed oil pan (aluminum). I saw it was JB’ed on the first oil change and just felt it was best to let sleeping dogs lie. I was religious about checking oil levels till the engine blew (another story).
If only the oil pans were as good as the transmissions.
What utter junk. And they could make the insert a 2-piece with a thread on exterior flange, though it would help just designing an insert that had some actual resistance to torque. There is no valid excuse for a plastic oil pan. It is about the dumbest material to use for a part that serves a critical function with a major potential failure liability that encounters constant wide temperature swings, is always bathed in oil, that needs to frequently have a plug removed and reinstalled (unlike a transmission pan) and will likely be done so by amateurs and bottom-barrel techs. Anyone with any sense of applying torque by hand should be able to change oil without using a torque wrench and without encountering an issue from not using one. It should not need to be so exact and we should not accept their bullshit excuses for speccing this trash. As if the CVTs, VC engines, mediocre build quality, and uncompelling design weren’t enough reason to not buy these shit boxes!
I don’t know the plastic used, but it is very likely a thermoplastic that can be welded and repaired by a normal person with a little experience, however, while I would consider myself that person and have had no issue repairing bumper covers and such to good results, I wouldn’t want to trust something as critical (and thermally stressed) as an oil pan.
I guess it is surprising they don’t just require oil removal via suction from the fill tube. Omit the Drain Plug altogether.
At that point, they really should. A plastic oil pan is still a bad idea, but that certainly relieves a major problem with it. I have a suction pump, but it never seemed to pull anywhere near enough for what should be in it no matter how I try to rotate it around to hopefully find some remaining pocket of hiding oil, so I stopped bothering. I have an aluminum pan, though, so it’s not a big deal to just do it the old way.
I have friends that live by the standard “if it still moves then it ain’t tight enough” and of course have never heard of a torque wrench. I know there are several different vehicles out there that use plastic oil pans but I’m fairly certain they’ve never owned one.
Did that service bulletin get to the 18-year-old at the Jiffy Lube?
Get a piece of scrap plastic from a similar car out back (garages ALWAYS have at least a small “out back” for the customer abandons), cut it to size. Cut a roughly round hole in it. Torch in the insert. Get a hole saw and widen the hole in the pan. Torch on the plastic patch you just made. Job done. You’re going to charge labor as well as parts no matter what, what’s the problem?
Nissan gonna Nissan.
My last F150 work truck (2017 w/ 2.7 ecoboost) had a plastic oil pan and by the time I got a new truck at 155k it was on it’s 3rd oil pan. According to the dealer service manager they were a constant problem as they warped over time from the heat cycles and started to leak at the mating surface. Never lost the plug but as each pan came with a new one I suppose they were getting refreshed often enough.
I was actually going to comment about the F150 oil pans, but since you and Lewin both mentioned it I’ll just ride your coat tails. My Ecoboost F150 was on the second pan before the warranty was up (and I sold it not too long after that), and my neighbor’s 2020 F150 just had his replaced not too long ago for the second or third time (I can’t recall what he said). I feel like the plastic works well for things like intakes where the heat is more manageable, but holding a hot liquid is best left to metal.
I actually have a helicoil thread-sert ready for the next oil change on my MDX. At 20 years and 176000 miles the original threads gave up the ghost.
One more reason…
…to never buy a Nissan.
And deprive yourself the glory of a Jatco Xtronic CVT experience?
You’re only hurting yourself.
*moan*
See? You’re already experiencing regret.
It only makes sense that Nissan would put the easiest to strip drain plug on the vehicle crowned “most likely to be serviced exclusively at quick-lube places” which as we all know consider torque specs to be 12 ugga duggas from the air gun.
It makes me think about David’s pre-Autopia adventure with getting the tires replaced on his LX470. The guy running the maybe legal tire swapping business kept breaking off the wheel studs because he thought his impact wrench was a magic device that could never cross thread a nut, so his response to all of the resistance was to set it to maximum ugga chugga.
Sounds like a good candidate for a Fumoto valve. Love my tool-less oil changes.
GM loves to put those on engines too. I guess there must be a cost savings somewhere. I always thought it was a bad idea. It probably is to get at the diy oil change and maybe the smaller older quick change places without a vac. I bet there are a several of them that have been plastic or JB welded back together. Dropping the pan because the fitting fell out doesn’t seem very flat rate.
Really, the tragedy here is the replacement cost is $300 for a part that cost <$30 to make.
If 5,000 of them fail per year, that’s an extra $1 million in Nissan’s pocket. This is the most profitable venture Nissan’s had in years…
LOL!!! Intentionally make shitty cars, price the replacement parts at 1000% cost….
PROFIT!!!!
So what happens when the pan becomes brittle due to the heat cycling of the engine (and oil) over time? Seems like a highly short-sighted decision.
All any of them care about these days is that it outlasts the warranty. As you say, it’s short-sighted.
You buy a metal pan offered by the aftermarket.
was wondering, if there are aftermarket metal pans..
I’d put in a Fumoto valve as a first step though.
Same material as those Chrysler 3.6 oil filter/cooler housings. Although probably a lot less stress on the pan as it’s not a pressure vessel. I’d think a drain valve is probably a decent solution…the Chinese knockoffs are 5 bucks.
I haven’t messed with oil pan bolts for years since I discovered the joys of using a vacuum oil extractor to suck it out through the dipstick tube. It’s also great for swapping out a few liters of transmission oil. So much easier and less messy.
The snarky answer is that the fatal flaw is that it is attached to a Nissan.
Wondering if an aftermarket oil drain valve might help? Once it’s properly seated it should never have to be torqued again.
Yep, Fumoto goes on all my cars at the first change.
However, I suspect the percentage of Nissan Rogue owners changing their own oil is rather low.
I suspect the percentage of Nissan Rogue owners changing their oil is rather low.
That would be one way to avoid this problem entirely.