I was studying the Book of Job last night when I got a call from someone who works at a major automaker, hoping to provide some information, on background, about the impacts of tariffs for his employer. It was great to hear from this person, but it wasn’t a helpful call. No one knows anything, really, and so I went back to Job.
The Morning Dump today will not be as long or as enlightening as Job, which is probably the most misunderstood book of the Old Testament (the South Park episode “Cartmanland” is a quicker, easier take on it, though I think it sugarcoats the ending). If you’ve never read it, you’d get the idea from popular culture that God makes a wager with Satan to see how much one seemingly devout guy can be punished before he breaks and curses God, and instead of breaking, Job patiently waits for God to make it right. That’s not quite what happens. Instead, Job’s friends come to visit him and slowly start to insinuate that maybe Job did something wrong to deserve this treatment, with Job slowly starting to realize that his friends are actually more torture than the sores that cover him from head to toe. And rather than patiently waiting, Job instead begins to loudly complain and proclaim that it would be better if he had never been born. As God predicted, Job never curses him directly, though he does question the logic of what’s happening to him for most of the book.
In the end, God swoops in, restores Job’s health and family, and chastises everyone, especially the friends, for assuming they’re able to reason out why bad stuff, or good stuff, really happens. I find this deeply comforting, especially now. I’m not sure why all this is happening, I’m not sure what the end game is here, and I take some comfort in knowing that those who claim to be sure are going to be judged more harshly than those who can admit they’re unsure.
My sense, and it’s only a sense, is that all of this is one big bargaining chip and that awful short-term outcomes are going to so outweigh the potential long-term upside that there’s little chance we’re in for a long and protracted period of tariffs. Part of this stems from the fact that they don’t currently make a lot of sense, and the rest from questions around enforceability and desire, on the part of the President, to make things like pickup trucks more expensive.
I could be wrong. I am mortal. So I’ll look at who might win and who might lose, starting with the losers and ending with the winners. Since this can’t all be directly about tariffs, I’ll talk some about lease buyouts. That’s interesting.
‘Consumers Will Be Losers’ According To One Analyst
In Job, it’s said that God “enlarges nations, then leads them away” and “strips understanding from the leaders of the earth, and makes them wander in a pathless waste.” If you’re an automaker right now, or someone planning to buy a car, you might relate to that.
But let’s start with what the proclamation from The White House actually says. It’s titled “ADJUSTING IMPORTS OF AUTOMOBILES AND AUTOMOBILE PARTS INTO THE UNITED STATES” which is a very chill way of saying that the tariffs on cars, which were coming then not coming, are going to happen in some form.
Specifically, a 25% tariff is going into place on any vehicle sold in the United States that was built anywhere else, although there’s maybe a carveout for cars built in Canada and Mexico that comply with the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, although only to parts made or transformed in the United States.
Why is this happening?
The Secretary has informed me that, since the February 17, 2019, report, the national security concerns remain and have escalated. The COVID-19 pandemic exposed critical vulnerabilities and choke points in global supply chains, undermining our ability to maintain a resilient domestic industrial base. In recent years, American-owned automotive manufacturers have experienced numerous supply chain challenges, including material and parts input shortages, labor shortages and strikes, and electrical-component shortages. Meanwhile, foreign automotive industries, propelled by unfair subsidies and aggressive industrial policies, have grown substantially. Today, only about half of the vehicles sold in the United States are manufactured domestically, a decline that jeopardizes our domestic industrial base and national security, and the United States’ share of worldwide automobile production has remained stagnant since the February 17, 2019, report. The number of employees in the domestic automotive industry has also not improved since the February 17, 2019, report.
I am also advised that agreements entered into before the issuance of Proclamation 9888, such as the revisions to the United States-Korea Free Trade Agreement and the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA), have not yielded sufficient positive outcomes. The threat to national security posed by imports of automobiles and certain automobile parts remains and has increased. Investments resulting from other efforts, such as legislation, have also not yielded sufficient positive outcomes to eliminate the threat to national security from such imports.
If at first you don’t succeed, try and try again, I suppose, since President Trump is the one who was responsible for negotiating both the USMCA and revisions to the United States-Korea Free Trade Agreement in his first term.
It’s fairly bipartisan to say that America needs a larger manufacturing base, that supply chains have become comically overstretched, and that more jobs are a good thing. If cheap goods for many and high profits for some at the cost of a lot of employment were the result of liberalizing trade in the ’90s, then perhaps there’s some justice to un-liberalizing trade so that those jobs can come back. It’s possible that some combination of high tariffs bringing in income, more jobs, et cetera lead to enough economic growth to counter the costs, but that’s rarely how it goes.
If you’re not into the Book of Job, Ben Stein in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off does a nice job of reminding everyone what happened last time America set forth to do these kinds of tariffs at this sort of scale.
“In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the… Anyone? Anyone?… the Great Depression, passed the… Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act. Which, anyone? Raised or lowered?… raised tariffs, in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? Anyone?… Anyone know the effects? It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the Great Depression.”
Maybe it’ll work this time!
[Ed Note: There’s no way Matt is referencing Ferris Bueller’s Day Off as a source about tariffs, right? This cannot possi — oh wow. Holy crap:
Oh man that’s hilarious. -DT].
The impacts, whenever they happen, could be immediate, and the people who claim to know think it’ll be bad for some and less-bad for others. From Bloomberg:
“There are very few winners,” Sam Fiorani, vice president of global vehicle forecasting for AutoForecast Solutions, said in a telephone interview. “Consumers will be losers because they will have reduced choice and higher prices.”
Tesla is the “least exposed” to the new duties due to its domestic manufacturing operations, CFRA Research analyst Garrett Nelson wrote in an analysis this week. Tesla itself has been boasting this week about its US credentials, saying in a post on X that its models “are the most American-made cars.”
Ford Motor Co. could also face a less-severe impact than some rivals, with about 80% of the cars it sells in the US being built domestically.
In particular, and this should be obvious, it’s bad for the automakers that import cars into the United States. Porsche imports all of its cars. Even domestic brands like Buick, which have been performing well, import 100% of their cars. Volvo, Mazda, and Volkswagen bring in a huge percentage of their cars.
They’re worried, and probably should be. Porsche, in particular, is in a tough spot, as mentioned in a different Bloomberg article:
Porsche, which is struggling with lower sales in China, may be most exposed. The luxury-car maker has steadily grown the last 15 years in the US, which just overtook China as its top market. But Porsche’s US dealers are entirely reliant on imports as the manufacturer operates no factory there.
The group I want to focus on is truck buyers, as they’re the worst off here. In spite of the existence of the Chicken Tax, which is a 25% tariff on imported light trucks, many of the trucks people like to buy are not, in fact, built in the United States.
Ford builds its F-150s, Super Duty trucks, and Rangers in the United States. While material costs and supplies may go up, impacting the total cost of the vehicle, it seems a lot more insulated than the big trucks from other companies. The Maverick, unfortunately, is built in Mexico. Sorry, Maverick buyers.
It gets a little harder for General Motors. The Colorado is built in Missouri, and most Silverados and HD Silverados are assembled in the United States, but facilities in Canada and Mexico make up the difference, and suppliers in those countries provide key components.
Stellantis is in the worst shape here, as its light-duty trucks are made in the United States and, yet, all of its heavy-duty trucks we just reviewed are made in Mexico. This production can eventually be shipped to the United States, assuming there’s enough labor. Of course, labor here is more expensive, so that’ll also make prices likely go up.
Toyota? Thanks to the Chicken Tax, Toyota builds all of its Tundras and some of its Tacomas here, so you’re in the clear. The same is true for the Hyundai Santa Cruz and Honda Ridgeline. No one wanted the Nissan Titan, so it’s being discontinued, but the Frontier will continue to be built here, so that’s nice. Tesla only builds the Cybertruck in the United States, partially because it would be illegal to sell something so risky to pedestrians in other places, so the Cybertruck might remain the same price.
It’s an interesting situation we’re in, where the Ford Maverick, Chevy Silverado, and Ram 2500 are likely to become relatively more expensive while the Toyota Tundra, Nissan Frontier, and Hyundai Santa Cruz probably become net cheaper. I say all of this is relative, because it’s possible everything goes up in price because all of the supply chains are integrated across borders and, as we learned during the pandemic, you can’t just fix that overnight.
This makes me tempted to believe that, as in the past, all of this is short-term negotiating. President Trump already said he’d consider cutting different tariffs on China, for instance, if they’ll sell ByteDance to an American company.
But I don’t know. No one knows. How many loopholes all there? Will Hyundai get one after going to the White House and bragging about building more plants here?
The UAW Seems Pretty Happy About It
United Auto Workers President Shawn Fain and then-candidate Donald Trump spent about a year taking potshots at one another, with the UAW ultimately endorsing VP Kamala Harris. If there’s one person who is happy with all of this, at least for now, it’s Shawn Fain.
Here is the UAW’s statement on the announcement:
“We applaud the Trump administration for stepping up to end the free trade disaster that has devastated working-class communities for decades. Ending the race to the bottom in the auto industry starts with fixing our broken trade deals, and the Trump administration has made history with today’s actions.
But ending the race to the bottom also means securing union rights for autoworkers everywhere with a strong National Labor Relations Board, a decent retirement with Social Security benefits protected, healthcare for all workers including through Medicare and Medicaid, and dignity on and off the job. The UAW and the working class, in general, couldn’t care less about party politics; working people expect leaders to work together to deliver results. The UAW has been clear: we will work with any politician, regardless of party, who is willing to reverse decades of working-class people going backwards in the most profitable times in our nation’s history. These tariffs are a major step in the right direction for autoworkers and blue-collar communities across the country, and it is now on the automakers, from the Big Three to Volkswagen and beyond, to bring back good union jobs to the U.S.”
I’m not sure President Trump and Fain are on the same page about Medicare, Medicaid, a strong NLRB, or Social Security. Nor is it clear that President Trump’s hope here is to see a bunch of unionized car plants.
If we fast-forward to the future, in a world where more cars are built here and costs go up, the result could end up being more automation. I don’t see another obvious way to square all of this.
People Are Seeing The Logic Of Buying Out Their Leases
Earlier this month, I wrote about the lease renewal cliff, which is the moment when a bunch of cars that would normally enter the used market do not. The reason is that most leases are for 2-3 years ago, and 2-3 years ago, there weren’t that many new cars to lease because of the pandemic.
The only thing that could make this situation worse, I reckoned, was a bunch of people looking at the current environment and deciding it might be better off to just buy out their lease. Conveniently, the people at Lease End, a company that helps people buy out their leases, have some data on this that they agreed to share.
“Lease End has seen a significant increase in lease buyouts year-over-year. In 2022, we facilitated 4,774 lease buyouts. That number grew to 7,766 in 2023, and in 2024, we processed 14,235 lease buyout transactions—an increase of 83% compared to the previous year,” said co-founder Zander Cook.
Why is this happening?
“We believe this surge is driven by a combination of factors, including (but not limited to) market conditions, consumer preferences shifting toward lease buyouts, and greater awareness of the options available — including brand awareness.”
As Cook admits, some of this might be due to the fact that Lease End is a new and growing company, but market forces are certainly at play here. If your vehicle is suddenly worth a lot less at the end of your lease, there’s less of a reason to buy it out, but if you’ve got positive equity, it might make sense. In fact, a study from Lease End showed that all of the top ten most popular vehicles to buy out had positive equity, with an average minimum of at least $2,000.
If cars get way, way more expensive and consumers have an ability to buy out their lease, this could make buy-outs more popular. This is not great for car dealers, who want the used cars to sell, and it’s worse for used car buyers, who might be looking towards used cars when new cars become more affordable.
Bring on the Lease Renewal Super Cliff.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s the last day of me talking about Laura Nyro without actually playing a song that Laura Nyro is actively singing, and this time it’s from the composer and lyricist Stephen Schwartz. I was thinking of doing something from Godspell this morning, tbh, before worrying that was maybe too on the nose. Instead, here’s “Magic To Do” from Pippin. It’s extremely Nyro-esque and kinda fun. I’m more of a Sondheim guy, but it works in a pinch.
The Big Question
What now?
Is it possible my investment in cars will actually appreciate?!? Suck it Dave Ramsey!
I made money selling a new CTR after 6 months and 8k miles of ownership during Covid. I feel like that may be possible to do again in a year’s time.
I have a 2014 Sportwagen TDI, and while I plan to keep it forever, I was curious what they’re going for. I paid $13,500 in 2020, with 37k miles on the odometer. It’s now got 68k. Comps on the market with similar miles now are listed at around $15k, which is crazy to me. It’s the only car I’ve ever owned that’s worth nearly as much as it was five years ago.
Pretty sure the Tacoma’s are made in Mexico.
The Tacoma’s what?
The Toyota Tacoma is assembled in Mexico.
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.
Tacos: made in Mexio, invented in Mexico.
Also, for those not aware what’s going on: https://www.project2025.observer/
It’s just project 2025. I wish it weren’t, but naïveté and wishes don’t do anything but make my psych case more interesting. Plan accordingly.
Welp, I’m not looking forward to living in Gilead in the near future.
I am a hard no on on that show after a few seasons. Just too life like these days.
It was supposed to be a warning, not a guide
My only hope is that I can fenagle my way to be a Commander. <sad face>
Your best hope is to qualify for an Econowife, perhaps?
What this most recent set of tariffs also does it target car parts, so good luck to those with older cars who have to do maintenance or repairs.
Time to plug in the 3D printers…
How many tariffs has Trump announced only to turn around and either delay or cancel because he was able to claim some victory over some nonsensical thing?
I would be shocked if these tariffs are implemented.
But…..if your particular industry really needs a tariff exemption, there are now many creative ways to bribe POTUS into make it happen. Buy his DJT stock? Or his meme coin? Or just simply wire him the funds – there is no enforcement these days. How our country has fallen off a cliff – sad.
Very sad. I’m not in support of tariffs, and I’m really not supporting how Trump is using them as a weird cudgel. At some point someone needs to call his bluff, because like with all bullies, when someone stands up to him, he folds.
I would dearly like for one person who thinks these tariffs are a good idea to explain to me, simply, how they will benefit consumers in the long run. How will these lead to lower prices? How will these help with long-term profitability? Just how?
Because it will, due to the things.
That’s the explanation the president has given, I think.
It wasn’t as succinct as the message: “Brexit means Brexit”, but content was similar.
And he’s not even sure either. But it’s a beautiful word, right?
During the first term, I kept driving around rural places, thinking do the residents here think that because they elected him factories will somehow immediately fall from the sky and they’ll all have great high-paying jobs? I think there is this mistaken idea that days or weeks after a tariff is enacted somehow factories will repopulate everywhere in the United States and everybody will somehow have a high-paying factory job in days or weeks.
To be fair, the factories are already there. They’re just been collecting dust for 30 years.
For real though. I am from one of those places. It is so much more economically depressed than it was when I was a kid, and it wasn’t great then. I can see why those people voted for the guy who said he was going to blow up the system that wasn’t benefitting from them. What they apparently didn’t consider is that he could actually make it much, much worse.
I also live in the rust belt and can definitely understand having it out for the system. The trouble is that they have it out for the wrong system.
I get having it out for the system (hooray for the great lakes basin!) but I wish people would learn to read and do math. We’d be far more capable of making a better life for ourselves, and far less likely to elect a con artist to makes bad conditions worse.
They just so easily bought into the, “Your town went bankrupt because of immigrants, gays, disabled people, college students, etc.” and didn’t bother to think critically about this for more than 5 seconds.
I was way simpler than that…
immigrants and grocery costs
That was it. Those are the only two reasons.
Have you not heard, reading and math are considered anti-masculine now. sigh….
The one place that comes to mind when I think about this is the town of Forest WI that I drive through about 6 times a year and think, what will he do for the people in this town flying his flags. https://maps.app.goo.gl/3akJ2Nk916XhM1Yv6
For some folks “Thinking is for those who can do so intelligently.”
The problem is those factories are old, would need to be retooled, and a green field plant is often cheaper than a brownfield.
I grew up in a now dead GM town in Michigan. When Eaton closed the factory that my father-in-law worked in his entire adult life they leveled it to the slab with the understanding that nobody would ever want the old building. I suspect what lurks beneath the grown will mean nobody will want to accept the liability of building something new on such a contaminated site either.
Both my in-laws voted for Trump. Now they are rushing to buy a car before prices go up. They seem to have finally realized that tariffs are actually taxes on consumers not foreign governments.
Surely the 10 people stood behind him at his swearing-in who had a combined net worth of like $2 trillion will suddenly start caring about the working-class stiffs. Bound to happen any day now.
The odd thing is that thanks to the IRA there is hundreds of billion of dollars in new factories being built – mostly in red and rural eras. Trump ran on a promise of removing funding for those factories and he so far his tract record of attempting to remove funding from anything he personally dislikes says that he will follow through. Because who wants factories if the make batteries and chips?
“Benefit consumers? Hahaha that’s just what we like to tell people. Obviously this is just for us billionaires, everything we’re doing is.”
Yep, and when you have more money than you can ever spend, what else could you possibly want? Power and control.
How? Divide and conquer.
I wish they’d settle for owning sportsball teams like the old days
If only the NFL had let trump buy a team. Even as a bills fan I’d much rather he’d have bought them than be the president. I live outside Toronto, except the Jays when I was a teen and the Raptors in 2019 I’m used to disappointment in my sports fandom.
The last few years of the Bills being good has been amazing but I know, deep in my heart, that they aren’t going to win.
When the competition has to raise their prices 25% due to tariffs, the companies not hit with them get to raise prices by 24% because of “market conditions”. All that extra money goes straight into those sweet, sweet profit margins, stock price goes up, and the executives cash in on massive bonuses. Then you announce layoffs because sales are down even though you are still bringing in record revenue for another stock price boost before the executives get their next round of bonuses.
The average consumer benefits by dying in a gutter while being told they should be thankful they still have a gutter.
No, surely this would never happen. A company would never raise prices on its goods simply because it could, and not because it needed to.
The average consumer benefits by dying in a gutter while being told they should be thankful they still have a gutter.
But “personal responsibility” talking point bullshit bullshit bullshit…
And pull yourself up by your boot straps
Bootstraps solve every problem as long as you don’t stop pulling.
Well the average consumer did, marginally, vote for this. So yes, personal responsibility.
If only we could track down who voted for this, and made them pay a tax surcharge to compensate those who didn’t.
Personal responsibility, after all.
And the timeline for when this pile of shit hits the fan is exactly 3 years and 8 months. That is the exact time that the Democrats become the straw man.
Closed a good deal on a Civic Hybrid about a week ago, arrived yesterday, picking up today. Out of curiosity I’ll be checking comp price on it in 6 months to verify/confirm my decision. To be fair, first car bought-new since 2006, so I feel I kinda deserve it.
We bought my wife’s car between the election and him taking over. Figured that it would be then or in 4+ years and the 13 year old Forester was probably not going to be a 17 year old forester.
Although my neighbours bought the Forester from us so I guess I’ll find out.
Steel prices went up 20% even before the tariff went into effect.
I don’t see either of those questions as the direct answer to “why the tariffs”. I see two primary drivers that impact the average American in ways that could be worth some suffering. 1) Supply Chain Security – We no longer seem to be in a world where the loss of trading partners is sufficient to diffuse war. Peace was managed by economic games, at least since the 90s, instead of threat of arms force. That doesn’t seem to be as true anymore. Therefore, it becomes a matter of national security to be able to stand more alone in the supply chain, or lock in supplies at favorable rates with strong partners.
2) Economic growth – More money in our GDP, particularly due to increases in decent paying jobs, can have net benefits across the board. Having strong job markets in the MidWest (by adding manufacturing again) could have substantial impacts on many factors currently at issue in the US. One of the lowest hanging fruit could be the housing crisis. Midwest housing is often quite cheap. If there were suddenly a bunch of good jobs, migration would occur, reducing stress on overburdened areas. The influx would in itself create new opportunities for the people already living there. Migration itself has been shown to be in massive decline in the US and has also been shown to be a huge benefit to our culture.
Obviously, while tariffs CAN have these effects, it doesn’t mean THESE tariffs will end up having that effect. But tariffs engineered to strengthen our supply chain and reintroduce US manufacturing prowess are not inherently a negative. Its the manner in which is gets handled that can turn all the potential benefits to dross.
Glad someone said it, cause I didn’t really feel like writing an essay. But tariffs in general COULD do good things over time by circulating American dollars between companies that produce their goods locally and paying blue collar workers at a rate where they can afford better quality goods made in the US. But that would involve taxing companies and the wealthy in a way where it makes more sense to invest in workers and R&D instead of Elon Musk sitting on 400 billion just for funsies.
That’s the part that always gets left out when people start saying Make America Great Again. That US had tax rates that prodded companies to invest more in people and innovating. Which THESE tariffs won’t accomplish much because the current admin wouldn’t dare raise taxes on the wealthy.
This administration and GOP congress has just put forward a budget that will DECREASE taxes mostly on the wealthy by $4.5 trillion while cutting programs mostly for the poor by $2 billion. Not only is that a transfer from poor to rich but also will increase the deficit and debt.
How did I not remember that Ferris Bueller’s Day Off scene with Ben Stein? One of my all-time-fave movies, and I’ve seen it several times though not in the past decade+ …but still, how did I forget? It’s SO good!
LOVE the wheels on that smoky dark grey Maverick. They remind me of those aftermarket (OZ Racing… http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7159/218056.jpg) wheels that I lusted for in the 80s when I was driving my ’84 GTI everywhere on three wheels. Of course back then, like every other 20-year-old punk, I was lusting for everything all of the time. 😉
Of course a sizeable bump in new (and by effect, eventually used) vehicle prices need not affect me personally, at least not for a while if I choose to resist that strange urge I feel every morning (to buy some weird old car I read about online (often here). Despite that somewhat myopic attitude, I don’t want to see new car prices go up for anyone else at all either: they’re already too high (as is the cost of housing relative to what many people actually earn IMO).
Matt, all I can say about today’s dump… the whole thing… is “Ferris AND Job?”
*CHEF’S KISS* 😀
These big trucks have such absolutely massive profit margins that I actually suspect the manufacturers will decide to absorb most of the added cost.
The Maverick, on the other hand… I would expect to see an almost 100% pass-through on the tariffs. +25% MSRP coming to a Ford dealer near you. If you want one, go buy it today.
Alternatively, they’ll need to increase the truck prices along with everything else because their large margins are needed to cover a lot of other things. Also, product positioning might need to be maintained; Ford might want to increase the price of an untariffed Ranger to make space for a tariffed Maverick, even if the Ranger’s part costs don’t increase much from tariffs.
You must be new here, welcome to Capitalism! Where cost is always passed along to the consumer because anything else risks pissing off the shareholders.
Based on what happened during COVID, I think it’s more likely that they increase prices more than the tariffs actually cost them because it’s a great way to sneak through a profit margin increase while being able to blame it on the government. And thanks to the last election results, nobody is going to do squat about price gouging.
It may not happen immediately to avoid spooking consumers completely, but in the long run increased manufacturing costs will be passed along. No publicly owned company in the US can do otherwise.
“actually suspect the manufacturers will decide to absorb most of the added cost.”
Oh, you poor, sweet, naive child.
I suspect neither of those options will happen. We will likely do what we did last time Trump increased our costs with tariffs and the total cost increase will be equally spread over all vehicles.
The leopards are hungry, and many faces are primed and waiting
But I didn’t think the leopards would eat MY face!
As a Canadian I hope that 1. we develop better and more thorough trade deals with literally anyone else in the world and 2. the complete and utter destruction of the US economy. All that potash you need for your farms? Shame it is going elsewhere. That oil your refineries are set up to accept? Oops, had a shutdown.
As an American, I do not blame you one bit for your sentiment.
I second this, especially since potash and oil shortages might mostly target the people who voted for this in the first place. From what I’ve seen, the midwest is very dependent on Canadian oil.
Without the United States there is no Canada. Or Mexico. As far as we all know them. Soon, this animosity will disappear and you will see an economic union between all three and possibly some of Central America/Brazil as well.
You see, Trump is playing the long game like China has been doing, but in baby steps.
You do realize there are over 150 other countries Canada and Mexico can trade with right?
And if you look at GDPs, a reasonable way to estimate the size of a market as a trading partner, exactly how many of those do they need to make partnerships with that are of EQUAL terms to them as the US trade has been just to break even? Then add in the increased costs of that trade due to shipping etc, how many extra partners do they need to recover those costs in their economy?
I appreciate Canadian anger at the administration. I don’t appreciate being shit on because the Orange Man is the current leader. And yes, I consider deliberately desiring the utter destruction of my countries economy to be shitting on me personally.
Yeah I do not care for other countries leaders views on certain topics doesn’t mean I want a complete downfall of said country and people have to suffer because of it. Lots of black and white thinking out there nowadays. Also I would prefer our economy not to crash and be at the risk of losing my job and giant lifestyle changes and my dad is a few years from retirement and he deserves it.
Considering the states is seems to be trying to destroy the economies of their long trusted neighbours/trade partners I figure turnabout it fair play at this point.
I appreciate that you de-escalated “is trying” to “seems to be trying.”
With the general incompetency of elected officials (heavily including my own here) trying is too strong a word without some modification.
How exactly is pointing out that “there are over 150 other countries Canada and Mexico can trade with” desiring the utter destruction of the US economy? Particularity in the context of the orange shitstain’s publicly expressed desire to do that to exactly that to Canada – so much so they will grovel at his filthy feet and beg to become a state.
And a countries GDP is not always directly related to how profitable the market is. Plenty of previously profitable companies have gone broke trying to sell to Wal-Mart.
The second paragraph specifically refer to IanGTCS’ Canadian sentiment, which in the primary comment states “2. the complete and utter destruction of the US economy.”
I was not referring to the other countries comment. I concluded my statements on that comment in the first paragraph. Context my dude. It matters.
Context – you should try adding some, instead of assuming people know you are not referencing the person you are responding to but something from maybe 7 posts earlier.
Even given that context, why does that sentiment make you angry when it is in direct response to threats of a similar or worse nature made by the Trump administration? Canadians are not the ones being bullies, they are responding to a bully.
Because it assigns guilt without knowledge. I believe we call that stereotyping. I neither voted for the Orange Man nor desire any damage to Canada whatsoever. Yet my personal livelihood’s destruction is goal of his statement. He could have chosen to condense it to wishing bad things on the actual bad actor.
I haven’t insulted his country or threatened it. So I would appreciate reciprocation.
You will have to forgive me for assuming that anyone would read a conversation, rooted below a primary statement, as all commentary within the context of that original statement. I was clearly mistaken.
He did not stereotype. His anger was aimed at the US, because he was responding to threats made by the US president. If our CEO were to tell another company that we were going to force them into receivership so we could acquire them, I would not take it personally if they wanted our company to fail.
The threat to your personal livelihood is not coming from him or Canada, but from Trump’s economic incompetence and his indifference to the damage he is causing to normal Americans.
If you are picking up your commentary at the primary statement after many posts, it is customarily to make some note of that – perhaps add some sort of context.
Looking an IMF numbers:
Trump is a petty angry idiot. If he was playing the long game, he would not be destroying our trade relations and giving the United States a reputation as an untrustworthy partner to do business with. The damage he is doing will lead to the the dollar being dropped as the reserve currency and a massive long term hit on US prosperity and security.
But it does track with his own record of being an untrustworthy partner to do business with.
And so many bankruptcies
But they were some of the “most beautiful” bankruptcies ever seen…
Can you imagine owning casinos and going bankrupt? The Dems couldn’t sell this message, and I don’t know why
As an American, I just want to let you and all Canadians know that we love you and your country and this is NOT what we wanted, at all, in the slightest. Trump and his minions are doing this to exert power and control over allied nations, our foes, and even our own godforsaken citizens who are already suffering from these rash decisions. And the “long game” that Trumpers talk about? Everyone wants that, DUH, but this is NOT how to accomplish it. Anyway, as an American I am sorry and don’t blame you at all.
So you think it’s OK to active wish harm on other members of this community? Not cool, dude. Not cool.
You know what else isn’t cool? The actions of your president. Would it still be shit if these were coming through congress with the various checks and balances that democracies have? Yep. However electing a government that operates on the whims of one man and his right hand man who is (supposedly) in a k-hole means that the rest of the world CAN wish ill will upon you.
On a lighter note some NOFX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuPNmXtomNw
I don’t care about the politics of it all, what I DO care about is some flippant bullshit saying “I hope all you assholes suffer” to other actual, real humans on this forum.
That’s a really fucking shitty attitude to have, eh?
Also shitty is your president advocating for the economic and at time military takeover of multiple sovereign countries. Do I feel bad for the Americans who will suffer? Yep. But I’m far more concerned about my own country and friends and neighbours who will suffer.
Sadly, we just cancelled our annual Canadian summer vacation since we really wanted to avoid any chance of being hassled by American border agents upon our return to the states. When you go into Canada, their border people are always friendly, welcoming you to their wonderful country. Rarely can that be said for the American border agents, who are sometimes polite, other times just rude and insulting. And I’m born here, imagine the crap they give to persons born abroad? Just ain’t worth it. So we’re staying in the lower 48, boosting the travel economy stateside.
I always have the opposite experience as a Canadian visiting the states. American border guards are fine, coming back home the guards are prickly at best.
We cancelled our Alaskan cruise because of everything going on in the states.
Ironically, this sort of demonstrates how these policies can work. Money that would have left the country is now staying in the country, which seems to be one of the big goals. I’m not voicing support, only stating that in this one instance, its doing what it says on the tin.
3. And then US becomes your 11th province
4th territory. Limited self governance (although in practice basically serves as a province).
I just want to go to the grocery store and not have to scan every thing I buy for country of origin. Or that if I had to go to Costco or Wal-Mart in a pinch, I wouldn’t feel like a traitor to my countrymen. I don’t like feeling that my shopping choices now have to put “Made in USA” in the same category as “Made in China” with respect to my national interest, because I’d rather buy developed-world goods.
I’d like to go see friends in the United States, or maybe think about a cruise out of San Diego as a nice vacation.
I don’t hate the United States. I don’t hate Americans. I’ve been there plenty of times and have enjoyed my time there along with the people there. It’s not a place I’ve felt unwelcome or a stranger. I can have a beer and stand around the BBQ with these people and it feels kind of like home.
I guess I could still just blithely do these things, but it’s hard to look my fellow countrymen in the eye as they are losing their jobs through no fault of their own and still act that way.
This is such a waste of energy, but I get that one can grift a couple more easily when they’re fighting each other instead.
Everyone’s angry (even here)….and I’m just sad.
If there’s a 25% tariff on all vehicles now, what’s protecting trucks any more? Wouldn’t this just open the proverbial flood gates for companies bringing foreign made trucks (assuming they continue to bring foreign made cars)?
I guess the obvious answer is that all foreign imports decline…
Crash safety and emissions are the only thing stopping them now.
shhhhhhh, don’t try to apply logic to the situation
Does this tariff override the Chicken Tax, or would it be in addition to the Chicken Tax (25%+25%)?
It all depends on the legalese, and this crew isn’t the best at that.
Looks like an addition, just came across this- “The tariffs will be on top of levies already in place, White House Staff Secretary Will Scharf said, and the administration projects that the tariffs would result in US$100 billion of new annual revenue to the U.S.”
Thanks for tracking that down.
it would have definitely been a funny unintended consequence if this had just neutered the chicken tax. Unfortunate to hear it’s not the case
I look forward to the whining that even with an 84 month loan the F150 to drive little Tragedeigh down to the mall is unaffordable.
bump to a 96 pr 108 month loan and lower interest rates and the majority of F150 buyers will think they’re ‘affordable’ again and Tragedeigh will continue to be shuttled to little ballet sportsball mall playdate enrichment music karate camp with that 10k tow rating.
I have but one like to give this
We’re hosed either way. Overseas suppliers will raise prices regardless to cover the risk that orders will be reduced or eliminated. Domestic suppliers will raise prices because they now can. And us proles get to pay either some rich dude or Uncle Sam for the privilege of having a private car. Probably both since markups could come back with limited new car supply. That trickles down into the used market.
They just pissed on us and told us it’s raining.
Domestic suppliers will also raise prices because the cost of their (imported) inputs has gone up. This is bad for literally evenone.
Another loser will be niche, formerly affordable enthusiast cars. I suspect we will see the Mazda3, MX-5, GR-86, BRZ, GTI, Golf R, 400Z all disappear from these shores. They were never big sellers to start; perhaps we can interest you in our made-in-America CVT-equipped SUV….
I’m glad I already have my N….
So here is what I figured happened on the Tariff implementation.
And that is why parts from overseas got hit before the vehicles. Also for the pundits out there we are waiting to see how they stack as well. A korean part with steel from China shipped to the US then sent to canada then brought back into the US then sent to Mexico for vehicle completion. I see 5 places for 25% tariffs in different iterations. So ignore this and everything will be cheaper okay.
Question for the group: if this tariff sticks, what foreign manufacturers will give up on the US market?
Mitsubishi?
Mini?
Fiat? (and by extension, Alfa and Maserati)
Jaguar?
Don’t forget the heavy truck market for box trucks
I’ll second that. I work for a box truck builder. The Peterbilts/Kenworths generally come from Canada. The Freightliners from Mexico. Isuzus come from Michigan (or on a boat from Japan). The Hinos (Toyota) actually come from West Virginia. Fords still come from Ohio/Kentucky. Macks are still built in Pennsylvania. Those are the ones I usually deal with. Have an occasional Chevy/GMC/Ram come through, but not many.
Fiat is already done here, again.
Mini, funny.
Mitsubishi, they don’t have to sell – million vehicles in the US as the US is no longer the worlds largest market. We are barely #2. I hope the tariffs work well and I believe they will.
History suggests otherwise. Assuming the tariffs stick, which they likely will not, let’s all convene in a year and see:
Hmm?
As far as full size trucks go, their sheer size is still a major concern. Too big, too long and too cumbersome for the city and suburbs anymore. They are simply too large for the average American who seems to believe that you DO have to have your entire house with you when you go to the mall. Stop the insanity…
And it’s almost all plastic anyway.
And regarding the tariffs, go Trump. If it doesn’t work it can’t and won’t be any worse than the sheer madness that fuel regulations and laws have pawned upon us. Diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) just say no.
Just don’t make these behemoths larger as most of the owners do know how to drive em.
And no worries… folks who buy Japanese products will STILL buy them.
That one day a year they haul something in the bed or that one time they tow something.
How is this comparable in any way to diesel regulations? This is a 25% tariff on foreign-made vehicles and components. Every car, even ones screwed together here, will be impacted and prices will go up. No company is just going to eat the cost of this, not at this stage in Capitalism. I know you voted for the guy, but he is not the business genius his marketing team made him out to be in the 80’s.
This is long-game thinking. The only way that America can beat China and a future re-invigorated EU is an EU of America. Canada, Mexico and the United States. I believe THIS is Trumps long game and he really only has 3 1/2 years to implement it. As quickly as our relationship has soured with the Canucks it will rebound with the potential of a 500+Million economic power.
Think about it.
Please explain how. He was threatening Canada and Mexico with military invasion only recently. That doesn’t sound like something you do when you want to create a peaceful trade alliance.
One must study what Trump is saying compared to what he is doing. Drill, baby drill is his motto. The more we drill the more Canada will drill. The more Mexico will drill. His talk generates a lot of ill will but actions will create a behemoth that cannot be matched.
The Musk “salute” and the like was just to instigate. Starlink with Trump’s blessing is about to replace Verizon’s ATC control system and soon it will be the world’s primary system. That is just one point.
Talk about taking over Greenland is another. If Denmark plays ball with the US on Greenland it will be under US military control 100% and its resources will benefit the AEC, the American Economic Union… not the EU.
Separate the gibberish and take action. The US doesn’t want or need Canadian power, but Canada desperately needs the United States when it sees that it could become part of a 500M economic power overnight.
This is pathetic.
Pathetic magical thinking.
Maybe lives in his Mom’s basement somewhere in Moscow?
There is a declining demand for fossil fuels globally. How is putting all our eggs in the basket of big oil a good thing in the long term? Keep in mind Trump and the Republicans have received millions in donations from oil companies and executives.
How will it be the world’s primary system? Elon has threatened to turn off Starlink to Ukraine, which means he could as easily threaten to turn off internet service to any country/entity that he or the administration doesn’t like. Why would any country sign up for that service?
“Plays ball” as in, allow the United States to take over an entire country for the sole benefit of the United States. Again, why would they do this?
You’re not thinking very critically about any of his plans and are just taking all of them at face value.
Belief of Talk is the acceptance of face value. Starlink will grow out of its infant stage to become the primary IoT connection for billions of devices worldwide. It will grow out of Musk control… and will not be turned off, cannot be turned off.
Decline in oil is only due to the push for electric vehicles and the like. Tje United States, Canada and Mexico continue to grow and thousands of EPA regulations will be soon terminated. Oil needs will quadruple.
Denmark is simply too small to do anything with anything. We already have a military presence in Greenland. Better we control it than the EU.
The American Economic Union.
It’s coming.
Belief of Talk is the acceptance of face value. Starlink will grow out of its infant stage to become the primary IoT connection for billions of devices worldwide. It will grow out of ???????? control… and will not be turned off, cannot be turned off.
You’re just repeating yourself. My question is, why? You say it will become the primary provider, but how? What is the incentive for any country or corporation to invest in Starlink when its owner has proven to be vindictive in his using of it?
Decline in oil is only due to the push for electric vehicles and the like. Tje United States, Canada and Mexico continue to grow and thousands of EPA regulations will be soon terminated. Oil needs will quadruple.
How? Only the US is subject to EPA regulations. Why will them being terminated in the US affect Canada, Mexico, Europe, or any other place that may be buying our oil? You’re also taking for granted the fact that people prefer to drive 10mpg gas guzzlers. I can afford to drive an Excursion, but I don’t want to. I want an efficient vehicle so I save money at the pump. Even the people who do drive SUVs/trucks want good mileage. How will oil needs quadruple just because there’s no mileage standards? You think the people who drive Priuses now will all of a sudden start driving F-350s? No. The price of everything is high, and people will try and save money wherever they can, especially with their cars.
Denmark is simply too small to do anything with anything. We already have a military presence in Greenland. Better we control it than the EU.
It doesn’t matter. I don’t want to live in a country that takes over nations in a hostile manner simply so it can exploit their resources. That’s a bizarre thing to want.
“Belief of Talk is the acceptance of face value.”
“Oil needs will quadruple.”
Okayyyy.
Is this a meme account like Jatco CVT?
I really wish it is, but I fear that it’s not.
This schtick is way less funny than Jatco’s
Hideki Tojo called. He wanted his East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere back.
Respectfully, are you high?
We had a unified North American economic union. It was called NAFTA then USMCA. We had free trade and combined economic growth with Canada since the 1960’s. Trump just blew that all up.
The EU economy is just barely smaller than the US economy. Why would Canada want to get closer to the USA after the same guy that just strong armed them into USMCA 5 years later sucker punched them?
A single currency for the entire economic union is what I am talking about. NAFTA was just a child’s version of what I am talking about.
Why would Canada want to get closer to the USA after the same guy that just strong armed them into USMCA 5 years later sucker punched them?
TL/DR version:
Why would Canada trust anything Trump says?
Trump doesn’t do “long game thinking.” Not sure when you people will realize that.
Moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem was one such move…
A great move, really.
Perhaps, but he is fairly good at saying something inflammatory and then using that to get what he actually wants. To understand Trump is to look at him as a businessman instead of a politician. Businessmen believe that the best deals require both parties to leave the table upset.
A good example is when he shut off the aid to Ukraine. Europe was PISSED, and promised to step in and help. Did Trump really want to stop helping Ukraine? Hard to say. He did want to have the rest of the EU pay their fair share.
The US needs to stop funding other countries and playing policeman while we drown in our own debt.
Regarding the tariffs, I wish they’d move the US tax system to a use based tax instead of an income/property tax system. This is where tariffs could make sense. If you want a Ford Maverick, you’d pay the sales tax, and the US would get it’s cut in tariffs. The money you make from your job is yours, as is your property. Spend more, pay more. You also need to realize that most other countries have big tariffs and taxes on US made items.
I am sure I will get absolutely roasted by the folks on here who are on the Left/never Trumpers, but Trump is doing exactly what he campaigned on.
To understand Trump is to look at him as a businessman instead of a politician.
And to understand him as a businessman you need look no further than the fact he bankrupted a casino.
Have you ever been to Atlantic City? lol
So why did he build a casino in a city that was a dump to start with?
Well, there wasn’t only one casino there. Who knows why Trump specifically decided to do it there? It probably benifited the company one way or the other, no matter the outcome. Hard to say without insider knowledge.
It’s worthy to note that ALL the casinos in AC went bankrupt, even the Rio (or Riva) or whatever that last monstrosity was called.
“The US needs to stop funding other countries and playing policeman while we drown in our own debt.”
So I’m sure you’re very disappointed that tax collections are falling while the government is spending more than over.
You make some good points. But, “used based tax” (aka a consumption tax) is actually bad for the nation, overall.
The whole US system works because the rich support the poor through taxes. Your suggestion would eliminate a good chunk of that income source, and subsequently would hurt the poor even more than they are being hurt right now.
Europe basically does this now, and it’s not perfect.
Sales/use taxes have always been regressive in nature and make those in middle to low incomes worse off. There is a baseline of consumption we all need to live.
Which is why the wealthy continually push to move away from income taxes and to consumption taxes. They spend a small portion of their income on things that are subject to a sales tax.
I’ve thought about it and concluded that you’re delusional.
… And he bankrupted casinos! That’s hard to do. Takes a stable genius to do that
Too large? Are you new here in the US?
If it was just trucks getting more expensive instead of trucks getting more expensive and *gestures at everything*, I’d frankly be all for it. I live in metro Boston. The number of giant trucks with hoods higher than the top of my car that don’t fit in most parking spaces out here and clearly aren’t being used for work is way too fucking high. I’d love it if the cost of trucks (and giant SUV’s) accurately reflected the additional cost they put on society in terms of being way, way more dangerous for everyone outside the car and the climate impact.
I’m so sick of giant trucks and they don’t even have the flimsy excuse of giant SUV’s that people claim they need to have room for their two kids (even though families were bigger 40 years ago yet cars weren’t).
The people in the trucks ARE bigger then they were 40 years ago.
I honestly laugh at any SUV larger than an Outlander/Rogue/Pilot/Palisade. I drove two last-model Nissan Quests for 10+ years and transported 3-4 children and towed anything I needed to tow (not a house) and never was left wanting.
Suburbans and vehicle their size are embarrassing now.
I think it worth noting that Suburbans have not substantially grown since the 1970s. I own a 1971 IH Travelall. It is longer than a Tahoe, but shorter than a Suburban by a few inches. That body sits on a Tahoe chassis. The factory Tahoe wheels tuck like 3 inches or more on each side.
Hood height and and frequency of extreme total length are the 2 major factors that have changed in trucks since the 1970s. But even then, a 1978 Dodge quadcab longbed was an option, and its no smaller than anything common today.
I’ve owned a couple of Travellalls over the years, and the difference between now and then is that only people that absolutely had to have this immense, poorly-driving behemoth of a vehicle drove them. Nowadays, the number of single-person-driver giant fucking SUV’s that I deal with on my commute very day is mind-blowing.
Now that cannot be argued with. Frequency of them in traffic is far higher now than it used to be.
Since the standards of decorum in the comments seem to have gone downhill since the election, let me just be the first to say fuck this guy, fuck his rent-seeking union and all its members, and fuck any Democratic politician past or future, who thinks working with this constituency buys you the slightest bit of goodwill.
I see that I am not the only one who has noticed a significant shift in the tone of the commentariat here, compared to what it was even a year ago.
Yes, and I regret participating in it, but at least for one day I need to vent some anger.
I respect feeling both the regret and the need. I avoid reading the comments section about half the time now for the Morning Dump, as its all gone to bitching about the Orange Man hell, something I actively seek to avoid in my daily life.
The tone is much worse and it’s a bummer. I blew up on someone the other day and regret it (I stand by what I said but regret snapping and pointlessly shouting into the void).
But I get it. Things are bad. I’ve had 4 meetings today to talk about this latest tariff announcement. It is constant work and rework to try to figure out how to deal with this shit. And I try to avoid news outside of this site and a nightly business update, but things are so extreme in Washington that it’s unavoidable. And I am just so tired of it.
We are only 2 months into this administration. I assume by the time it’s over, this comment section will be as toxic as the general internet.
See, you actually have a reasoned take and a real thing to talk about – yes there is chaos and it’s hard for businesses to plan around, and that’s a real issue surrounding all this! But for so many comments it’s just become “oh fascism this, fascism that, he’s a nazi, she’s a nazi, orange man bad, go Canada I hope the USA crumbles are falls apart and dies, oh my god YOU’RE nazi” and a million places of absolute hyperbole that this place was really free from up until very very recently. Like yeah, a 25% tariff on imported vehicles is pretty big car news! Is there actually any commentary in this comment section that isn’t just hyperbolic vitriol from either side (notably majority 1 side…)? Eh, no
We do our best to keep it reasonable here, but it’s hard when politics and cars collide like this. The way I look at it, TMD is a bit like the bomb squad some times, taking all of that angst and driving it out to a field so that it doesn’t blow up in a populated area (or a Bishop post)
its not so much, at least in my opinion, an indictment on the Autopian, as it is on Internet, and perhaps also, US culture. We have become so closed off to discussion, to merit and fact based disagreement. It all devolves, rapidly, into shouting at each other, not talking to each other. I sure don’t always agree with V10omous or Nsane, but when I disagree, I can typically rely on them to have a reasonable discourse on the topic. Unfortunately, that used to be REALLY common here and it has become noticeably less common.
I wouldn’t go so far to say “fuck the members”. They are just a bunch of folks looking to live a decent life, working a pretty shitty job for decent money.
As far as Fain, he’s quite the Fosbury Flopper. With ya on that part.
The great states of our american midwest turned their back on all of the good will the unions fought for during the last contract negotiations. They turned right around and said “fuck the administration that stood on the picket lines with us, our family, our friends” and voted for the orange guy.
I don’t know why they did it. Maybe they thought some union jobs were going to come out of production being moved to the US? So maybe they are dumb, not just assholes?
So yeah, fuck ’em.
They did that for phony photo ops and votes. They give as much a shit about unions as any politician anywhere. Which ain’t a lot.
None of those union members voted the way they did because some Democrats brought them some pizza and hot chocolate one day. That’s pretty obvious.
Was it a hollow gesture? Maybe. I agree that Biden could have been more vocal in his pro-union comments.
On the flip side, Trump (and Muskrat) came out and said that workers striking should all be fired.
So, again, fuck em
I also really can never forgive the Democrats for abandoning Unions.
They didn’t but this should put to rest the idea that they ever should support unions again.
No, they should try to make these union workers see that them supporting an oligarchy is not going to benefit them.
That has been the talking point in every election of my lifetime, and here we still are.
The Democrats have decided that preserving the interests of college-educated professionals and academics are more important than actually trying to meet blue-collar workers where they are (hint: crying oligarchy and fascism, etc isn’t going to do it).
That may be defensible when appealing to a moral sense, but isn’t going to win you any elections.
The issue is that the Dems eventually became more interested in soliciting donations than winning elections, and the party leadership is now guided solely by that desire.
I can’t forgive Democrats for a whole host of horrific actions they’ve chosen but abandoning the working class is far and away their greatest sin, and unions are obviously a part of that. The vast majority of Democrats and Republicans work for the exact same oligarchs at this point, and the reason establishment Dems are basically bending over and going “UwU do what you’d like Daddy Donald” is because his policies help the majority of them.
We need an actual left wing party and a moderate right wing party that doesn’t have regressive stances on social issues. I’ll gladly sit down and listen to both. I can’t deal with MAGA and I will no longer entertain anything that establishment Dems are trying to sell me. They’re all beholden to the oligarchy.
Yeah, I’m with you. I’m conservative, but I sure as hell am not MAGA. But the leading Democrats speak a language so far from anything I can understand that I can’t support them either. The leaves me with what, the Green party?
I am very conservative, but dislike that my party has become the party of Donald Trump. That being said, I often tell people to pick 2-3 issues that you don’t budge on and vote that way. No party will match 100% of one’s views.
A detail that gets left out of the last election re: unions/labor is that Joe Biden is so old that he’s a relatively union friendly democrat since he was from that era. Most mainstream younger democrats (notable exception: Minnesota) like Harris have taken a neoliberal anti-union/labor stance barely different than republicans, which is likely partially why union voters were not super enthusiastic about her. She helped Uber, whose chief legal officer is her brother-in-law, score legal wins; Uber’s entire business model was basically to union-bust the taxi industry. She was also part of the administration that intentionally botched appointing pro-union NLRB board members before Trump came into power.
This is 100% correct. Kamala is a corporate Neoliberal like probably 90% of the Democratic Party at this point. They’re bought and paid for by essentially the same oligarchs as the Republicans, they just wrap it up in a nice rainbow bow and/or GIRLBOSS energy and expect no one will notice.
I’ve long believed that the political spectrum isn’t a line its a circle. If you go far enough right, you end up with the beliefs of the left, and vice versa.
Horseshoe theory. I think there’s a degree of truth to it and that authoritarianism is a universal bad/violation of individual freedoms regardless of what path brings you there. Extreme left and extreme right wing views have led to that conclusion throughout human history.
That being said, I think there are some fundamental differences between folks on the left and right. I think the (actual, not the center-right Neoliberal bullshit we have here in Yee haw land) left cares about striving for a better quality of life for everyone and thinks empathy is a virtue.
I think people on the right generally care more about things that affect them and their family/friends directly and don’t necessarily prioritize the needs of people that aren’t in their immediate circles. I don’t think all righties are psychotic “empathy is bad” MAGA types, I just think they prioritize the immediate needs of themselves and their loved ones over the greater good.
I don’t think either is necessarily bad and I don’t think the two lines of thinking are mutually exclusive.
Its interesting to read your understanding of a key split between left and right. I can see where you are, but I have a different interpretation.
To me, leaning too far in to the greater good theories has the unintended consequence of undermining expectations of every member of our society. The right has higher expectations of individual and personal accountability, instead of the gov’t trying to manage it. It becomes a “I can help you, but only if you are also helping yourself” theory. We avoid gov’t intervention because people are expected to own it themselves. And I do believe that people often rise to a challenge, but they can’t do that if not challenged.
To your point about immediate circle though there is some truth to that. I believe that if we each individually take care of our own, even if “our own” aren’t “desirable”, that leaves only a very small section of our society without support. That is where govt and society pick up those last remaining pieces. So yes, I am concerned about my immediate circle, but not because I don’t think about the greater good, but because if each of us takes care of our own, THAT is what brings about the greater good (assuming we each also leave a little to support those who truly have no support structure).
Its a distinction between having the Gov’t try to provide for that good, or the individual, the community, doing so. At the individual level, the greater good can be tailored to the individual needing help. At the govt level it can’t be. And I don’t trust the govt to be competent enough to even begin to achieve this goal.
People often suck. Gov’t is made of people. Its very hard for me to trust that the sum is greater than its parts in this case.
An average of $65 per hour in wages and benefits – BEFORE – the last strike and new contract is pretty decent money in my book. Demand for those level of wages is one of the primary reasons that automation is continuing to rapidly erode manufacturing jobs in the USA.
(And before you start – yes that $65 per hour number is real, it doesn’t include retiree pensions or health care. I’m a manufacturing engineer for an automaker with UAW employees and know our labor rates for every plant in North America)
I can’t imagine why. Everything is going great! Why would people be upset?
Surely the Tariffs Will Eat My Face Party won’t enact Tariffs that will eat MY face!
When I was used-car shopping in 2013, I encountered a similar market with historically low inventory . . . manufacturers really pulled back volume after the Great Recession and people still reeling from the economic turmoil were holding on to their 3-5 year old cars instead of trading up.
But egg prices…!
You combine these tariffs with using Signal for classified war planning, and you’ve got yourself a 1st class ticket to rock bottom egg pricing. Just wait! This is 4-dimensional chess negotiating! It’ll work!
4D beer pong, more like it
Probably vodka pong if Hegseth is playing
Job is one of the few instances in the Bible when God shows up directly to yell at people. Great stuff.
That would be a good movie…
I assume there will be a lot of “just buy used trucks” comments. I am hoping that more manufactures see the writing on the wall and offer more striped down work truck models.
As much as I’d love to see a second golden age of mini trucks, I’m imagining it’ll be more “Now offering 15 year loans at 15% interest!”
“I know what I have. No lowballers.”
The 2011 Ranger I just bought is going to pay for my retirement in a year when I sell it. Used prices just started stabilizing, but they are about to climb right back up and FAST.
You can literally go to Chevrolet.com and build a regular cab, long bed, 2wd truck in the WT (work truck) trim with rubber floor mats and black trim everywhere.
I know that, other manufactures not so much and lots are full of luxed out 4 door short boxes and it gets even harder to find base models in 4wd. MY comment was MORE not that they did not at all.