Law enforcement officers roll into work every day without knowing exactly what they’re going to face. For Trooper Zach Gruver, September 17th turned into a day where he would travel at over 130 miles per hour to save an 18-year-old in a reported runaway Honda Pilot. He pulled it off just in time too because the road was about to run out.
The incident happened just north of Fargo, North Dakota a little after 8:00 p.m. A call came in to say that a young man, Sam Dutcher, couldn’t get the car he was driving, a 2022 Honda Pilot, to slow down.
Dutcher tells local news InForum “I thought, ‘Hey, this thing is accelerating and my foot is not on the gas.” Soon after, he and his mother were on the phone with 911 hoping for help. Ultimately, it would come, but probably not in the way Dutcher expected. The dashcam video below reveals a great deal about the chase.
According to Inforum, Dutcher began his journey in Harwood, about 15 minutes north of Fargo. From there he started traveling east on 90th Avenue NW when the unintended acceleration allegedly began. Deputy Zach Johnson from the Clay County Sheriff’s Office offered suggestions.
“If you hit the brakes, nothing happens? Is the accelerator stuck down? Are you able to push the e-brake and just lock ’em up?” Deputy Johnson asked.
Evidently, none of these potential solutions worked so Johnson initially told Sam that the department would try stop sticks to slow the car down. After recognizing that wouldn’t work due to his speed, they had to think fast.
18-year old Sam Dutcher says his Honda Pilot started malfunctioning, hitting speeds of 113 mph before state troopers could disable it almost 40 miles later.
Posted by WDAY TV News on Monday, September 30, 2024
90th Avenue is about as straight as a road can get but it passes through a few uncontrolled intersections like the one at Highway 32. Officers raced ahead of Dutcher to close that intersection before he arrived. Video from the scene shows him racing through it at over 110 mph.
By that point, Sam had been on the road dealing with this for some 29 miles and things were about to get far more sketchy, according to Inforum. 90th Avenue NW runs out just six miles from the intersection at Highway 32. As such, officers had to think fast to solve the problem and speed became a life-saving measure. The video above shows Trooper Gruver speeding past the Honda in his Dodge Charger police cruiser and to get ahead of it.
Then, by slowing down directly in front of the car, the Honda’s anti-collision tech allegedly took over and began to slow the SUV. The ordeal wasn’t over though because, as we see in the video, at one point something changed and the Pilot lurched forward again and hit the patrol car as Gruver continued to slow down.
“That hit hard. It was like slowing down, slowing down, and then it wasn’t,” we can hear him say on bodycam footage from after the incident. “It’s a good thing we had a Charger,” he continued. None of the video from the scene shows any of the interaction between officers and Dutcher so we reached out for more information.
The Minnesota Highway Patrol tells The Autopian that Dutcher left the scene without any charges or citations that night. The vehicle is now at a local Honda dealer as part of an investigation into what happened that evening. The MHP didn’t confirm whether or not it personally checked to ensure that Dutcher’s telling of events was accurate but said that “From the information we had, none of those options (brakes, e-brake, neutral) worked.”
The Highway Patrol suggested we speak to the Clay County Sheriff’s Office who simply said “Nothing that was attempted to stop or slowed the vehicle worked.” We followed up to confirm that local law enforcement itself confirmed these things after the stop. We’re awaiting a reply. Notably, the authorities did file a report with NHTSA about the matter. Here’s what it says.
The state investigator indicated that while the 2022 Honda Pilot was being driven by the owner, the accelerator pedal had malfunctioned and the vehicle suddenly experienced unintended acceleration. During the incident, the vehicle’s speed had increased above 100 MPH. The driver was unable to stop or slow the vehicle when pressing the brake pedal or when activating the emergency brakes. A State Trooper Cruiser vehicle was used to forcefully ram into the side of the vehicle to make the vehicle reduce speed and eventually stop. During the incident, the driver sustained undetermined minor injuries. No further information was available. A police report was taken and the vehicle was towed to the local dealer. No further information was available. The manufacturer was not contacted by the investigator. The failure mileage was unknown.
That doesn’t tell us much more aside from the fact that this was a 2022 model and that Dutcher sustained minor injuries. For its part, Honda wouldn’t comment on the situation aside from to say that the car would need to go to a dealer before the company could determine anything.
The automaker issued the following statement to ABC News:
“We are grateful that the customer is safe … We cannot speculate about the issue experienced by the customer without a detailed inspection of the vehicle. We encourage the family to have the vehicle towed to an authorized Honda dealer to enable that inspection.”
At this stage, it’s anyone’s guess as to what went down inside of that Pilot that night but what’s clear is that the authorities were clearly willing to put their safety on the line to save this citizen.
Tin Foil Hat time: Is this a fabricated circumstance to support vehicle speed limiters?
I can hear the bureaucrats now: “Just imagine if this happened in California! 756 people would have died!”
These stories crack me up and also terrify me. Driving is a dangerous game. People need to learn how a vehicle functions, not just how to not hit shit, before they get a license. Unintended acceleration is just a fancy name for user error. If you can’t get a car to slow down even if it’s malfunctioning, that’s your fault for not knowing how it works and how to slow it down; you put it in neutral. The law might say well, there was a glitch you’re not “at fault” should an accident happen. Which, fine, but as the operator, you must know how to, ya know OPERATE IT, and part of that is how to handle malfunctions.
A lot of new cars with electronic shifters don’t even let you shift to neutral now, for reasons I absolutely cannot fathom.
Just another win for manual transmissions. 😉
I have a 2018 Odyssey. I will try to put it in neutral on the highway. 🙂 I am pretty sure it will do it.
I believe you have to hold N. I’m not sure if it would work if it registers as accelerating.
Throttle by wire and electronic e-brakes are a bad idea. Hell, a mechanical switch to cut power to the coils would have stopped this nonsense.
How would they know to use that when they don’t know to just put it in neutral? I guess you could make it a big red button, but that has its own problems in being abused by malicious people.
So, a lot of comments one way or the other.
My guess is a combination of both. I’ll bet there was some issue (stuck pedal, floor mat, IDK) something making the experience not normal and probably compounded by someone freaking out and making some less-than-optimal decisions (and maybe justifiably so). Interesting that the collision avoidance didn’t work, that seems like an issue.
Shit like this is why I want hard off switches and mechanical linkages (for shit like steering, parking brake, etc.
Same. A switch that cuts power to the coils would have helped. I really dislike throttle by wire and electric emergency brakes.
The electric emergency brake on my old tenth gen Civic wouldn’t release when the battery died. I was at the top of a hill and could have started it by letting it roll and popping the clutch. It was over 100 degrees outside and I had to wait for a jump in the sun.
How convenient.
“Unintended Acceleration“ is not a thing. I’m guessing a 2022 Honda has a EDR/black box. Let’s pull the data and see what’s going on here.
Don’t you remember the cybertruck gas pedal issue?
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-releases-results-nhtsa-nasa-study-unintended-acceleration
I’m curious about this road running out. Did they just decide, “well, nobody lives out there so I figure we can stop paving here, eh”?
Probably parked outside. Warm engine bay. Little hungry mouse. Disaster.
no mention of the (bad) movie “speed”?!?
Isn’t that the one where the luxury yacht-style cruise ship crashes into St. Martin?
That’s “Speed 2” I think.
You saw Speed. You loved Speed 2: Cruise Control.
Coming this summer:
Speed 3: Auto-Pilot
Brb taking my car (2016 Mazda6) with push-button start down the desolate backroad by my grandma’s house. Gonna push and hold the start button to see if it shuts down. Must find out.
And? What’s the verdict?
We will find out tomorrow on the evening news.
One quick push: nothing. Push and hold: car shuts off.
Much less exciting than 113 mph but the follow through is appreciated.
I like others here are pretty dubious of this and think the main problem exists between the seat and steering wheel, but admittedly I don’t have a car with a push button trans.
That said, on my drive home I think I’ll see what happens when I press and hold the start button when driving down the road.
He pulled a bad driver mistake and mashing the gas thinking it was the brakes. When the cop passes him you can see the 3rd brake light is not lit, which means he wasn’t on the brakes.
For 29 miles?
DEFUND THE POLICE a social worker would have talked this car into slowing down. S/;
Great job officer although you need a better media person the way to long video showed nothing of interest that I saw and was wàaaaay to long.
Would it have eventually turned off the engine if he had tossed the key fob out the window?
Real or bogus, it’s a good goddam thing this was in North Dakota. 36.4 straight-line miles?! On any highway around these parts, he’d have left the road before he even hit 100 and probably taken eight cars and a bus with him.
Lucky this happened in a place with a bazillion miles of dead-straight road.
Clearly the brake duct rusted out because he didn’t get TruCoat (TM)
Haven’t we been down this road before?
The engine cannot put out enough power to overcome full braking. Push the brake pedal.
Emergency brake.
Turn the ignition off.
Put it in neutral.
There is no scenario where all of these things would fail to work at the same time.
Yeah put in neutral at 100mph+ lose power steering. Yeah you will stop as the vehicle crashes why not a Pitt maneuver? Send it rolling. Am I to understand his mom was in the vehicle? I don’t think alleged is warranted her, it happened.
You don’t need power steering to go straight.
I’ve owned several cars without power steering over the decades, currently half my fleet (2 out of 4) doesn’t have it, at this point, I’m in the camp of it being a nice to have luxury that people overstate the necessity of, similar to disc brakes.
I’ve driven both. what’s interesting is that modern cars seem much harder to steer without power then older ones. I think because steering wheels are a lot smaller and also the steering setup and geometry is no longer optimized for ease of use.
Since when does putting a transmission in neutral have anything to do with power steering? Beside, the article very clearly mentions they were on a very straight road.
You don’t need power steering at 100mph. The real concern would be loss of power brakes.
Putting a car in neutral does not affect brakes, steering, etc. etc.
Otherwise, I would not have been able to coast down the Grapevine into the LA basin in neutral multiple times.
Just because Mom was in the car doesn’t mean she could see where his feet were (in the dark)
Placing a car in neutral while driving doesn’t cause the power steering to stop working
Just putting it in neutral would be fine I’d think, at least they would still be able to steer as the engine “allegedly” revs.
This car has an electric power steering rack no hydraulic. But either way putting it in neutral has zero effect on any power steering systems. This is pretty basic knowledge…..
Are you drunk, or… Nothing you said made any sense.
So, my guess is that in situations like this they hit the brakes lightly and it doesn’t stop so they let off, then they press harder for a little and it still doesn’t stop, so they let off, then they hit harder and it slows a little but doesn’t decelerate that fast so they let off again. Then the brakes are so hot that they don’t work very well anymore and maybe not enough to overcome the engine power.
the other things, probably user issues at that point and maybe understandably so if they are freaked the f out.
all I’m saying is this doesn’t happen with a manual
Acccttuuualllly…
If you drive enough old manual cars you’ll find that getting stuck in gear is a thing. I just recently had a slave cylinder start leaking, once the fluid was all gone that thing was not coming out of gear until it was stopped.
Warn or broken shift cables also a problem, but at least then you can still use the clutch to decouple from the engine.
shhhhh no one needs to know. Though even then barring some truly catastrophic circumstances you probably won’t be stuck accelerating and unable to brake
If this really was a software or drive-by-wire failure, maybe it’s time we require a kill switch that cuts off power to the ECU like racecars have.
Or just a switch to turn off the fuel pump relay?
Or ejection seats!
That’s what prompted my question below about neutral – what’s the point of having it if you can’t access it? Or if it doesn’t automatically go there in the event of a malfunction?
I’m sure there’s certain scenarios where this isn’t true, but it does seem like for most of the others, disconnecting the power while still leaving the other systems running is the best failsafe?
You mean like the ignition switch?
Not exactly. The ignition “button” in today’s cars work through the ECU. A kill switch would be hardwired in series with power from the battery to simply cut off power.
So you’re saying, “Stop” doesn’t really mean “Stop”…it means “I’ll think about it?”
For some vehicles yes, however since the Toyota Prius incedent where they wouldn’t let you shut off the engine on a vehicle in motion many cars will do a forced shut down while in motion if you hold down the button for x seconds but will not shut down from a single momentary push.
Kinda, yeah. If everything is working properly it’s fine. But if it isn’t, it would be nice to have a way to kill power without software being involved.
Yup. Same for most computers and phones nowadays. The power button is a suggestion, not a ‘hard’ off switch.
I made it a point to buy a smartphone with a removable battery. In the past I’ve been stuck with a black screen on my phone and every phone has a different way to restart it, which without a working phone is hard to look up if I’m not at home where my computer is.
While I’ve yet to have a black screen failure on my current phone if I do have one I can just pop out the battery to reset it.
Just a reminder:
https://phys.org/news/2010-05-honda-override.html
Hondas have had throttle/brake override for 100% of cars produced after 2011.
“Honda, Honda go faster, faster …”
It still would get passed by Joe Isuzu. Insert clip of JI here.
Downhill in a Hurricane
Brakes/e-brake are mentioned several times, but nowhere do they mention turning the ignition off.
I’m genuinely curious what would happen if you hit the Start/Stop Button while in motion? Killing the ignition with a key is one thing, but would the car respond to a button press at speed?
My understanding is that most cars with a pushbutton start/stop won’t do anything if you hit the button while moving. However, if you press and hold the button, it will shut off the engine.
Remember a few years back when there was a Prius that got the throttle stuck and was blasting down a California highway? IIRC, CHP dispatchers were talking to the driver and told him to press the button. He did, but he kept just hitting it, not holding it. That’s why it wouldn’t shut off.
Well it may or may not work but maybe testing it at 113 mph with 2 meatbags inside the car isn’t the best time to experiment? Poncho and John clearly showed get in front slow slowly and everyone lives.
Nice tip!
Should actually be part of the “get to know the car” spiel. Someone should not have to drive out of control and read the manual at the same time.
Also, after the engine stops, the car should be put into the “accessory” mode (push start button but not the brake pad) so the brakes and steering (not power) can be manually used.
I actually tried that on a recent press trip. Maybe the GMC Acadia? I let intrusive thoughts win and hit the button on an empty backroad. Nothing happened. I think as StillNotATony said it probably required holding the button. Makes sense since accidentally hitting the button would otherwise shut down the vehicle at speed.
Yup. Push the ignition switch.
In the olden days, this would be “turning the key to ‘off’.” Manually, because the driver was in charge of the vehicle, not some engineer who might have added a back door in the programming to cause this to happen.
Alternative: that 18yo farted just one too many times, and the sentient car thought, “enough with this waterbag….”
Does that work? I have never had a keyless ignition but I would think that when traveling at 100mph the loss of power brakes and steering and all that jazz would be enough of an issue that the car would have a “safety” feature that would not allow the car to be shut off? I have no idea, but I’m very interested to hear what Honda has to say after inspecting the car.
When I hit the ignition button in my car, the radio stays on. No reason why it couldn’t be set up to keep brakes and steering active until the car stops. Not saying it’s definitely like that, cuz I’ve never tried it, but it’s possible.
Electronic PS maybe, but power brakes require vacuum generated from the engine. No engine, no PB.
I promise you that in a situation where you absolutely, positively have to stop a car, a person’s panic strength will likely be enough to push an unpowered brake pedal to the floor. Even if it takes 2 feet to do so. In my experience, no power to the brakes does not equal no braking capability*.
* Assuming that the hydraulics in the brake system are functioning aside from not having any power/vacuum
* And assuming this wasn’t full brake-by-wire
This is why EVs and self driving are bad ideas. Programmers are expert and programming they suck at real world activities like driving. So now you need a person to explain driving, and a safety expert to explain safety and a decider to decide safety over normal driving and come up with solutions to situations not yet seen. However we do need populations to thin out. This should do it. But if so are you willing to bet you aren’t the weakest link?
The solution is a (mostly)analogue EV. Best of all worlds.
Steering would be a problem only if it locks after a 10-degree turn.
With brakes, you just have to push harder. Unless, of course the brakes actually turn off because it’s connected via electronics and not a cable.
Getting the engine off is the Step #1.
Yes, but you would also likely lose the ABS and a panicked 18 year old mashing the brakes at 100mph would almost certainly end very poorly.
Well, he was already mashing the brakes at 113 to no avail.
Yes no brakes already let’s add no steering. You are a car guy/gal right?
On my car, when the car is turned off but in accessory mode, the brakes work and the steering works. No “power” so I, the driver, supply the power. Just push harder and steer harder. I do this nearly every day when I’m cruising home, downhill from the freeway to save a little gas.
Once the engine is off, unless car is going downhill, it will slow down naturally, because Physics. Pushing a brake pedal will slow the car down, unless brakes and steering are controlled only with the computer’s permission. And, IMO that is a bad setup.
If these new cars’ braking and steering are totally being solely via computers and not humans, then I probably won’t buy one. I want to be responsible for my own accidents.
You’re describing the vast majority of new cars sold in the USA 2016 or later. This crap is the result of government “safety” mandates. Many cars made before this date as far back as the early 2000s have steering/acceleration/brake by wire. I’m not a fan.
I have been repairing vehicles for 20 years and have never seen a brake by wire system. Could you give me me a specific example?
Give one example of a production vehicle with brake by wire.
I’ll be waiting….
I’ve read that the current gen Toyota Prius, Corvette C8, and Lexus RX400h all use it. In the early to mid 2000s, the Mercedes E Class models also used it.
The brake boost will be plenty enough to get you down to a stop (unless that’s been replaced by some less safe bullshit electronic crap, too), but even without it, would only require a harder press on the pedal (and they want all brake and even steering by wire! To be programmed by people I wouldn’t trust over a lazy house cat to clean a floor). On my car at low speeds, you can kill the ignition by pressing it several times (last car was hold for several seconds) and the steering stays active until the car stops. Haven’t tried it at higher speeds for obvious reasons, but I think it’s reasonable to think it would behave the same way. What other cars allow, though, I don’t know.
Waterbag or meatbags? We need a poll. Certainly more water by percentage but meat by weight, or meat by the true definition. Can we get a ruling here?
You should ask the sentient car, since it was the one doing the thinking. And since I created this one, “waterbag” it is.
I’m gonna follow the word of Bender and vote “meatbags”
I don’t know contemporary Honda transmissions I’ll admit, but why not put it in neutral?
They “said” they “tried” that. Although it is a pushbutton transmission. Conceivable that software might prevent that at speed.
According to the owner’s manual, the software does not prevent the car from going into neutral. In fact, doing anything out of the ordinary puts you into park or neutral depending on the situation.
https://www.piloteers.org/posts/1757634/
I had the same thought, but this is a button shift transmission so I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t allow a shift to neutral while in motion?
you know, now that you mention it, when I got my 2022 TLX, on the test drive the salesman mentioned that the buttons won’t do anything a speed, so if your kid pressed it, it won’t happen. There’s even a specific sequence that a car wash is supposed to do to put the car in Neutral beyond just pushing the button.
This shit is too complicated. Just go back to the good old t handle.
That isn’t what this Honda dealer demonstrates starting at about the 5:35 mark. At speed hitting R shifts it to neutral and flashes a message on the dash that the vehicle must be stopped for the shit to occur. A Momentary push of Park does nothing while holding it down gives the same result as pushing R at speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8I94U46T2c&t=413s
With all these new cars being fully electronic garbage, the computer would have to allow it as there’s no mechanical link to the transmission. Whatever error/external hacking event may have caused the throttle to do this (and also kill the throttle override when the brake is activated) must have also disabled shifting or maybe it’s just never allowed. [Smiles smugly at manual transmission car] They don’t mention trying to kill the ignition—more stupid electronic BS—but maybe it doesn’t work at speed or when the throttle is open.
Good thing we have all these fancy new features so we can stop people from being able to stop when there’s an issue! Crap like this is why I like manuals and key ignitions. I will never have an issue shifting to neutral or turning off the car.
There are ways to make things like this reliable and fail safely, even the evil electronics and computers. Don’t blame the computer if Honda decided not to do that.
Well, we only assume there are ways. And these are things that need to be checked before they should be allowed to be built.
Anyway, I am going to guess, with this limited information, that there was a short bypassing the acceleration controls that caused the engine to overaccelerate and unable to be stopped. What could cause this short? Good question/
I mean, cars for 100 years had such fail-safes. How much better is a car with electronics that fails such a simple safety test?
I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge there are ways. Whether they chose to implement them is the only question.
I guess I’ll have to interview the engineers about the car I’ll one day buy, since the salesmen will know shit.
The problem is that nobody ever seems to do that and it’s all entirely unnecessary when simple mechanical systems solved these problems long ago more reliably, far more resiliently, and future proof. It seems things were programmed pretty competently until about 20 years ago. Now it’s a competition to drive my misanthropy to a level that the evils of human studying history and living with psychopaths could not achieve.
Cut off power steering at 113 mph? Yeah I’m not sure that is not stupid
You don’t need power steering at that speed, the wheel effort will be light enough for any turn you should attempt at that speed.
Yeah, power steering is really only required for low speed maneuvering, if even really then
another salacious headline for the algorithm!
An 18 year old driver can’t make a car stop, you say?
It’s clearly not an issue with the car.
Well, we know it was an accident, or he would have had friends along. Filming it. Somebody check young Sam’s Faceybooks!
Kids these days say faceybooks is for the Olds, or something. Check young Sam’s snaptokgram!