Welcome back! Today we have two cars from the Pacific Northwest that run fine now, but both have the potential to go kaboom at some point in the future. Which one is more worth the risk? Determining that is your mission, should you choose to accept it.
Yesterday we were in the Phoenix suburbs looking at two old solid-axle rear-wheel-drive relics. There was lots of love for the old Plymouth Fury, but it didn’t translate into enough votes to pull a win away from that Camaro. And by the way, I thought the RS was the base model Camaro in those days; I didn’t realize there was an even more basic version, hence the mislabeling. As always, I regret the error, and thanks for keeping me honest.
As much as I appreciate an old cop-ish Mopar, I have to side with the Camaro fans here. It wouldn’t be my first choice of GM pony car, but it’s not a bad one either. And yeah, you can say that a Camaro should have a V8, but we’re not talking about an Iron Duke here. That 3800 puts out almost as much power as the V8 in the IROC did when I was in high school. It’s plenty.
Now then: Cars these days are leaps and bounds more reliable and durable than they once were. There was a time when 80,000 miles on an engine or an automatic transmission was a lot, and breakdowns weren’t unheard of even in brand-new cars. Nowadays, you can buy a Camry that already has 200,000 miles on it, and be reasonably confident it will serve you well for a few more years. Once in a while, however, a bad design or a poorly-made component slips through the cracks, and a car develops a bad reputation because of it. Both of today’s cars have the potential for critical components to completely shit the bed at any given moment – in one case it’s the engine, and in the other, the transmission. Let’s check them out and see which one you’d rather roll the dice on.
2003 Honda Odyssey EX – $3,450
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5-liter overhead cam V6, five-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Tacoma, WA
Odometer reading: 172,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Honda’s second-generation Odyssey has a lot going for it. It’s a good size, it’s comfortable, it has a lot of cool features, and it’s pretty reliable – with one glaring exception. The transmission, a five-speed automatic unit, can and often does fail from excessive heat, causing it to slip, lock in second gear, or just plain fail entirely. They’re twenty years old or more, which means most of them that are still on the road should have been rebuilt or replaced by now, but you never know. This van, with 172,000 miles, is overdue for a failure, if it’s still on its original transmission.
It’s being sold by a dealership, so information on its condition is, as always, absent. They do say it comes with a three-month warranty, which should alleviate a little worry about the transmission – if you can get them to honor it. A pre-purchase inspection, either by yourself or a trusted mechanic, is an especially good idea in this case.
It’s in very good shape, which typically means it has been well cared for. Vans take a lot more abuse than other family-type vehicles, and the clean and intact upholstery of this one speaks well of it. It’s an EX, so it has all the power stuff, as well as cruise control and such.
The outside looks clean as well, and I like the color. It’s a handsome style, too, not fussy or overdone like so many vehicles, including Honda’s own, these days. There shouldn’t be any problems with rust in western Washington, but it’s worth a peek underneath just to be sure.
2012 Hyundai Veloster – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6-liter dual overhead cam inline 4, six-speed manual, FWD
Location: Tacoma, WA
Odometer reading: 135,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
The Hyundai Veloster (or Velociraptor as my wife calls it) is a weird car. It took me a while to realize, when they first came out, that there weren’t two-door and four-door variants; instead they all had three doors. It has a low roofline with a window shape that sort of makes it look like a modern rendition of an AMC Gremlin from certain angles. But aside from all that, it’s a zippy little hatchback with a six-speed stick, and that can’t be all bad – as long as its 1.6 liter “Gamma” engine doesn’t self-destruct, that is.
This Veloster runs fine at the moment, but the seller has had trouble with the engine going into “limp mode” in the past. They mention the knock sensor, by which I assumed they meant the pre-ignition sensor installed on most engines to adjust the timing, but apparently part of Hyundai’s solution to the whole Gamma engine debacle was to add a sensor that can detect a connecting rod bearing failure early on. The addition of this sensor extends the engine’s warranty to 15 years or 150,000 miles, meaning that this one has a couple of years and a little under 15,000 miles to go. Of course, it might be fine – some Gamma engines live to ripe old ages.
It’s nice and clean inside, though I never really liked this style of interior. It looks like the cheap bookshelf stereos that you saw on sale at Best Buy twenty years ago. It probably stays clean-looking longer than piano black, or that Volkswagen soft-touch crap, though.
It’s a bit banged up outside; both sides have some dings and scrapes on the doors. There is also some peeling clear coat and faded black paint on the A-pillars. It’s not bad looking at all for a $2,500 car, though, and I still like this shade of green.
These are both old and cheap cars now, so I guess you can’t expect miracles when it comes to longevity. And you never know; neither one might ever have any problems. Both have a little cushion of warranty, at least, and that’s not something you typically get with cars in this price range. You just have to hope that if they fail, they do so within the warranty period. So are you more likely to gamble on the comfy van, or the weird little hatchback?
(Image credits: sellers)
So the 1.6Ls have issues too? I thought that was the “good” engine vs. 2.0 Theta. Or are they all that way; my neighbor has an old Sorento that sounds like the timing chain wants to leave the engine every time she cold starts it. Anyway I’ll take the green, manual, time bomb. It’s super cheap and could be fun while it lasts.
The 2.4 Theta II in GDI and MPI flavors is the most problematic, while the 1.8 / 2.0 Nu is the best one by far.
The Gamma in GDI guise is somewhere in between.
The raptor was aimed at a youth market – this one probably passed through at least two such owners in its life, and they probably beat on the one thing that is its weakest link. That van sure looks like somebody’s grandparents owned it. I’ll guess that it has rarely (if ever) been driven hard, and has been maintained per manufacturer instructions – probably at the local Honda dealer. There’s no guarantees, but I’d say that it’s very possible that the trans issue has already been dealt with in one way or another. It’s not the fun choice, it’s not the sexy choice, but it would be my choice.
Yes to all of that. But still no.
I’d have the 6-speed hatch LOOOOOONG before ever considering any flavor of minivan.
Even if the 3 pedal hatch looks like a booger.
I don’t usually vote van, but there are exceptions to every rule.
Monday’s cars were from Arizona. Tuesday’s hail from Washington. If Wednesday, Thursday and Friday’s choices are from Florida, Utah and Louisiana, respectively, the first letter in each state’s name combined in the order of their day of appearance would spell out AWFUL. Could that be what these rides have in common?
Please, Mark, to this thing.
Mr. Canopysaurus, you are an evil genious. I salute you.
I’m very impressed. Even if this isn’t the theme, well done sir!
COTD
An excellent guess, and kinda on the right track, but incorrect. We’ll see if tomorrow helps you out.
Odyssey. It is in very nice condition. I would consider spending a few thousand dollars to fix it if it broke. I don’t view this vehicle as expendable, unlike the Veloster. I would be hesitant to spend any significant amount of money to fix a Veloster, particularly one that looks like it wasn’t treated well by previous owners (also, after reading the original ad, it appears the Veloster currently has engine problems – it is hard to call the Veloster a time bomb when it appears it may have already detonated).
If I’m gonna gamble, I’ll gamble on Honda before Hyundai. If I roll snake eyes, a transmission is cheaper than an engine.
This is my thought process as well. Plus, the van’s transmission is an “if”, not a “when” like the Veloster’s engine, as the van likely already had a rebuild in its life. To be fair, the 1.6L isn’t guaranteed to fail either, but there are rebuild kits for those Honda transmissions that make up some of the deficiencies – I know someone with a 2005 Odyssey that has close to 200,000 miles on their rebuilt transmission, and they abuse that poor van.
I’d add a timing belt service too as there are no records. This + the cheaper entry fee and extended warranty on the Gamma GDI switched me over to the Hyundai.
Timing belt on those vans isn’t easy, but it also isn’t super hard. That Gamma randomly going into limp mode means that Hyundai warranty may be put to the test soon…
Why not buy it and immediately go to a dealership for repairs?
I like the Veloster, but this one is already banged up.
I’d rather make some savings in case the well-cared for Odissey craps the trans.
Today the answer is both, and if you’re lucky one will keep going when the other blows up. Thinking the week’s mystery theme is Staid vs. Fun. So far I’m in the fun camp, in this case only because the Veloster is so cheap and has a manual.
The Velostar, because when it craps out I probably won’t have the whole family in it.
An aside, the last time a car broke down my passenger was the dog. And a dog is really the best passenger to have when things go bad like that. No judgement or complaints, happy to sit in the woods with me (away from the highway) waiting for the tow truck.
Veloster all day. At that price, even if it only holds together for a few thousand more miles I’d feel that I got my money’s worth
My vote tied it up! I voted the Veloster because it’s a cool color and a 4-cylinder small hatchback 🙂
Same here a couple minutes later, this one is going to be tight.
Veloster would be funny as a project car to plan an engine swap on, that color is excellent too
I’d rather have a Veloster for a short time than a minivan for a short time.
I started to say “both” and propose shoving the Odyssey’s V6 into the Veloster R5 Turbo-style, but then I wondered how much trouble it would be to swap a salvage-yard manual from a contemporary V6 Accord or TL. I’m still wondering, but it would have to be less than the other option and the idea of a V6 manual minivan with some suspension and restrained cosmetic loads appeals. A Lot.
I completely agree on the “dash style” you hate. There’s one of those cheap boomboxes at my in-laws, even when it’s off the display lights up and flashes in patterns that looked cool in 1997…
you get used it, loved my velo, I even swaped the instrument cluster with a newer version!
I’ll go van. I can find more use for it, I already have a smaller manual hatch. A Forte Koup of the time might sway me more as far as sporty manual H/K models.
Honda transmission issues were quite well known by that point and with how cared for the van looks, the owner could have been aggressive with fluid changes to prolong the life.
I appreciate the detailed listing of the Hyundai, but seems like if it’s running fine now as they say, it’d be worth that almost much to trade in at least to one of the used car chains, to save themselves the private party hassle and the inevitable messages they’re getting with lowballs and offering payment plans and the like.
And if they each croak, seems easier to get a transmission swapped or sell it to someone that will do it, than it will to go through the Rube Goldberg of events for Hyundai to help out. For a car that has been tested already, that you recently bought, from a brand that was known to fight said claims.
Going for the Veloster because:
A.) Bright Green
B.) Don’t need another van
C.) Cheaper
D.) Manual
E.) Already done the Honda 5 speed replacement at 100k thing… twice.
F.) Kinda Funky
G.) Bright Green
H) 3 years/ 15K miles left on the extended engine warranty >>>>> 3 months shady dealer’s “warranty”
VELO all day and 2x on sunday, I miss mine, I got one as my pandemic car, 6speed, gorgeous blue, fast enough, handled well. Felt every bump lol
My $3000 Odyssey needs a $5000 transmission. But not for the reasons mentioned here. The drivers side axle sheared off, leaving the broken stub stuck in the differential. It’s too deep inside to weld something to it and slide-hammer it out so I’m in the process of pulling the other axle in the hope that I can tap it out from the opposite side. Otherwise it’s totaled.
I haven’t heard good things about Hyundai, so I’m going with ‘neither’.
Electromagnet
Don’t mind me, I’m still trying to figure out this week’s theme. Yesterday, it was a car from the ’80s vs a car from the ’90s. Today it’s a car from the ’00s vs a car from the ’10s. We also have had a coupe vs a four door sedan, and a hatchback vs a minivan. Also, both of yesterday’s cars were from Arizona, and both of today’s are from Washington.
Nope, too many variables out there, gonna have to see what’s in the showdown tomorrow to try to get a better idea.
Cars of the same State, one decade apart, different body styles, one manual, another auto.
Hmm, I’ll go with the cheaper time bomb. The extended warranty on the Veloster’s engine might not transfer to a new owner so make sure you check on that before rolling the dice. The Odyssey could have more life than you’d expect if a prior owner had an aftermarket transmission cooler installed. The guy who owns a transmission shop I’ve been to a few times said he gets a lot of business from people who want transmission coolers for their Odysseys. The tendency of the unit to cook itself is well known.
Odyssey, because it’ll be more useful to haul stuff around in, and when/if it does blow up, you’ve got a J35 leftover. In a Veloster, when the engine blows, you’ve got nothing but scrap value left.
Odyssey for me today. The Veloster is just too small and the minivan is much more useful.
opposite for me, the Veloster is down around current winter beater pricing, the manual makes it a little more fun, even thought the micro engine with a Hair dryer always concerns me with regard to actual longevity and ease of repair. Still I would probably use the Veloster for the rest of the winter and sell it in the early summer. I imagine I Could even make enough to cover taxes and plates if I wait until the tax money comes in around May.
I’d daily the Veloster until it dies.
These where NA, the turbos didn’t arrive till 2013
Voting for the Veloster because A) stick and B) I don’t need a minivan.
Same. I have nothing really to add.