President Biden’s term, which ended yesterday with a flurry of pardons, was marked by a pronounced commitment to building out America’s battery and EV infrastructure as part of a nationwide effort to curb global emissions. Last night President Trump issued a series of executive orders attempting to reverse these initiatives.
There will be other things to discuss this week so I’m going to try to limit the politics to today’s Morning Dump, which means you can skip this if that’s the last thing you want to read about. The way these things go, politics might come back up again, but I’ll do my best.
First, let’s talk about “energy” and the overall thrust of what our new President said last night. Then I’ll talk more specifically about the EV tax credit, which hasn’t disappeared yet. Nor has funding for more public EV chargers, although an effort is being made to stop public funds for chargers and new factories.
And, finally, we might as well talk about the tariffs for Mexico and Canada which… might happen?
Trump Wants To ‘Unleash American Energy’
If you’re in the mood, you can read the entire executive order from the new White House right here. It’s long and there’s a lot in here, so I’ll address some of it in a little bit. It’s important to start with the thesis:
America is blessed with an abundance of energy and natural resources that have historically powered our Nation’s economic prosperity. In recent years, burdensome and ideologically motivated regulations have impeded the development of these resources, limited the generation of reliable and affordable electricity, reduced job creation, and inflicted high energy costs upon our citizens. These high energy costs devastate American consumers by driving up the cost of transportation, heating, utilities, farming, and manufacturing, while weakening our national security.
It is thus in the national interest to unleash America’s affordable and reliable energy and natural resources. This will restore American prosperity —- including for those men and women who have been forgotten by our economy in recent years. It will also rebuild our Nation’s economic and military security, which will deliver peace through strength.
The important lesson that the Trump Campaign seized on and the Democrats seem to have forgotten, is that people tend to hate inflation more than they hate unemployment. As the pandemic retreated, economic activity started to increase and, alongside supply disruptions and sanctions against Russia, combined to create a big swing in gas prices and, connected to that, inflation.
It is debatable whether or not the Green New Deal had anything to do with this, but President Trump is using this as a reason to expand drilling and energy production, much as he tried to do in his first term. The timing of this is interesting, as many projections seem to indicate that America has reached peak gasoline consumption, or at least is close to it.
Curiously, the Biden Administration’s policies and geopolitics actually led to America setting a record for energy exports and essentially becoming energy independent. As that didn’t overlap easily with Biden’s climate change message, there wasn’t much bragging about this.
Will America need more gasoline? Maybe. It’ll certainly need more energy if the incoming AI revolution is to occur, and that’ll require a mix of coal and nuclear (which Trump historically likes), as well as a lot of natural gas. How to get it?
It is the policy of the United States to encourage energy exploration and production on Federal lands and waters, including on the Outer Continental Shelf, in order to meet the needs of our citizens and solidify the United States as a global energy leader long into the future.
There’s a lot more here, including the reduction of regulations (somewhat bipartisan these days) and the search for more rare earth minerals used in batteries (mostly bipartisan). The drilling in public lands is one of those items that ping-pongs back and forth between administrations and is usually decided by courts.
The other big section here that’s going to be a sticking point:
[T]o eliminate the “electric vehicle (EV) mandate” and promote true consumer choice, which is essential for economic growth and innovation, by removing regulatory barriers to motor vehicle access; by ensuring a level regulatory playing field for consumer choice in vehicles; by terminating, where appropriate, state emissions waivers that function to limit sales of gasoline-powered automobiles; and by considering the elimination of unfair subsidies and other ill-conceived government-imposed market distortions that favor EVs over other technologies and effectively mandate their purchase by individuals, private businesses, and government entities alike by rendering other types of vehicles unaffordable;
To be clear, there is no federal electric vehicle mandate, as automakers are free to come up with any solution to meet stricter CAFE regulations. However, the only obvious way to do that is to make more electric cars. This gets even harder when you consider that California and 13 other states have what is effectively an EV mandate. The line about terminating state emissions waivers is targeted directly at California and will, again, probably end up with the courts to decide. A court heavily tilted towards conservatives.
Curiously, there’s also a bit here that’s extremely anti-wind because President Trump really doesn’t like wind power for whatever reason (he thinks they’re driving whales “crazy” for one). Trump has said he will declare a “National Energy Emergency” to deal with what he sees as major threats to our economy.
The Tax Credit Survives, For Now, But Could Be Changed
One of the biggest immediate impacts of the Inflation Reduction Act was the updates to the EV tax credit program that made a lot more cars eligible, and others ineligible. This is a popular program among EV buyers and something most of the car industry wants to keep.
It might be assumed that Tesla CEO Elon Musk, a huge supporter of Trump who was seen all over the inauguration furiously and awkwardly waving at people, might be worried about this. Probably not. I mentioned when this came up before that it’s bad for Tesla but way worse for everyone else to such a degree that it might ultimately be helpful for Musk’s company.
Let’s review the above, again, because this is what we have to go off of:
[C]onsidering the elimination of unfair subsidies and other ill-conceived government-imposed market distortions that favor EVs over other technologies and effectively mandate their purchase by individuals, private businesses, and government entities alike by rendering other types of vehicles unaffordable;
Do the tax credits make electric cars cheaper? Absolutely. It also greatly incentivizes EV leasing as, thanks to an interpretation from the Biden Administration, almost every car and buyer qualifies if you lease it. Does it make gasoline-powered cars more expensive? Perhaps indirectly by encouraging investment by car companies that have to be offset elsewhere.
Like a lot of Biden priorities targeted by this executive order, the main piece has to be reversed by legislation. Republicans in Congress signaled to the Trump administration that it didn’t want a lot of these plans changed by an EO so that they could be removed in a larger bill to offset the cost of tax cuts.
Trump will, however, likely be able to use the lease exemption in negotiations with Japan, South Korea, and Europe, as automakers in all these countries rely on them.
EV Chargers And Plants Targeted
For various reasons, much of the Biden-era green legislation unlocked money for public EV chargers everywhere and new plants in traditionally Republican parts of traditionally Republican states.
Will this fact save those investments? The Biden Administration pushed out a ton of loans, including to Rivian and Stellantis, in the last few weeks. President Trump is attempting to thwart those investments as best he can.
Trump also directed agencies to pause disbursement of funds appropriated through two laws Biden signed — the Inflation Reduction Act and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act — including funding for EV charging stations. The infrastructure law allocated $7.5 billion to building out a network of public plugs across the country.
This is basically what President Trump promised in his campaign, though it might be less popular with Republican governors when it comes down to the details.
Trump Might Put A 25% Tariff On Mexico And Canada
That photo of the Volkswagen Beetle at the top of this piece is excellent, even if this photo of a Volkswagen Taos built in Mexico is a little more timely.
I mention that because President Trump said he might enact a new tariff on America’s neighbors because of what he claims is a flood of undocumented migrants and drugs coming across the border.
“We are thinking in terms of 25 percent on Mexico and Canada, because they are allowing vast numbers of people [into the United States,” adding “I think we will do it Feb. 1.”
The outcome of this is going to be potentially negative for all the countries as a previous President pushed through a renegotiation of the trade relationship between the three countries that ended up with the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA). Which President? I’m trying to remember…
People are already starting to get nervous about this, including Volkswagen, as reported by Reuters;
“The Volkswagen Group is concerned about the harmful economic impact that proposed tariffs by the U.S. administration will have on American consumers and the international automotive industry,” a Volkswagen spokesperson said in an emailed statement to Reuters.
“We value collaboration and open dialogue. The Volkswagen Group looks forward to continuing its longstanding and constructive partnership with the U.S. administration,” the spokesperson added.
Volkswagen is in real trouble here if this happens, as it’s been estimated in the same article that 65% of VW’s American sales would be uncompetitive. But what about Canada? This time from GM via Bloomberg:
Donald Trump’s tariff threats stand to hurt American economic interests because they would disturb automotive supply chains where the US is strong and drive up consumer prices, said the head of General Motors Co.’s Canadian unit.
“It is a disruption that is in no one’s interest, especially in the US,” GM Canada President Kristian Aquilina said in an interview.
About half of the cars sold in Canada come from the United States and conversely, for all of the talk above about American energy independence, we do require a lot of energy from Canada. Retaliation could make energy expensive, which is obviously the opposite of what President Trump’s plans are as stated.
What will actually happen? No idea.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Autopian reader Crank Shaft suggested this and, frankly, the Modern Jazz Quartet doing a “One Note Samba” is a nice and relaxing balm today.
The Big Question
Can we have a discussion about the new Trump Administration that’s civil and reasonable? Can we all air our opinions and challenge one another in a way that’s productive? We can give it a shot.
Top Image: Volkswagen
“awkwardly waving at people”
Thats one way to put it
I know it’s a hot take, but I think we went in too hot and heavy on electric vehicles. I want them to succeed, and I’m interested in the Anthem and Zero motorcycles, even some commuter cars I’m interested in. Unfortunately giving government money for larger vehicles doesn’t make too much sense for me. Semi Trucks and School Busses are not really the best use for the technology, at least in my eyes. Plus the whole infrastructure thing. We need some technologies to catch up on the battery and energy side.
As someone who works in public transit, it’s the last area to worry about decarbonization.
Why not school buses? Those and mail trucks seem like the perfect fit to me. Consistent measurable dedicated routes, followed by long terms of sitting still at the main parking lot (where they can charge). Why do you feel school busses don’t work?
Definitely disagree with you about school buses, they’re actually excellent uses for it, for the following reasons:
The majority of the time they’re idle for hours – charge during the school day – they have some fairly well planned routes – I grew up rural, and even the longest route we had (put together by a woman who had no idea what she was doing) would have been well under the mileage limit of any proposed EV school buses I’ve seen – and they are operated at relatively low, predictable speeds.
Semis are poor EV candidates, I agree – towing is not an EV strong suit. But an EV school bus? That would work.
Fully agree with this. School busses (and other short route busses like small-scale municipal busses) seem like the ideal candidate for and EV. Semi trucks do not. There are probably some weight concerns on residential streets depending on the size of the bus/battery?
I think the weight concerns are minimal, honestly. They would be heavy, but still not the heaviest things on the road, especially since the longest distance bus routes are places with much heavier stuff on the road.
have you ever had to manage a bus fleet? I haven’t but I work with some who has. It’s a drain on his time and sanity. They break down constantly. (the semi trucks have a similar issue.) Range is paltry, and its now winter in north America, we are seeing one of the coldest winters in the lower 48 states. Houston had snow today. Even when it doesn’t snow the kids go to school in the cold. Do you know how much the range has been hurt by weather? A lot more than you think. Also, a fleet manager that deals with children his biggest fear is a lithium-ion fire with kids inside. TBF he never went propane for the same reason.
I’ve said it before and will say it again, there won’t be enough electricity to go around for EVs. We are on the precipice of juicing up the globe with too much electricity. There are too many computers.
My buddy runs a school bus company. He says that a school bus typically drives 60-100 miles per day.
Idk, Rage Against the Machine and System of a Down have felt more right as of late.
I was gonna say maybe Rare Earth in honor of the mining reference.
Because these days, IIIII just wanna celebrate another day of living.
EV mandates are fadin’, ooh babe I’m losing you?
NOFX’s War On Errorism has made it way back into my regular rotation
How about The Clash?
https://youtu.be/nC-qw4BkDwI
Can we have a discussion about the new Trump Administration that’s civil and reasonable?
As reasonable as a discussion about someone who tilts at windmills can be.
“It is the policy of the United States to encourage energy exploration and production on Federal lands and waters, including on the Outer Continental Shelf, in order to meet the needs of our citizens and solidify the United States as a global energy leader long into the future.”
I wonder how those whales and NIMBYS feel about offshore oil platforms. Pretty sure they’d rather have the windmills.
No worries. They will not be placed in front of any red states.
Period.
Some of the more wealthy enclaves in CA can pay off Trump to keep them off their shores. (Looking at you, Hollister Ranch.)
We can do whatever we want in the Gulf of America now. Just wait til we get back control of the Canal of America and build a wall to keep out all those Canadians.
What’s a Canadian? You mean our 51st state?
Canada is more of a friend with benefits.
Benefits meaning bigger boobs. Everyone knows Canadian chicks have bigger knockers.
Pretty sure that’s not what “benefits” means. Or maybe it does, I’ve never had such a friend.
You have never lived and met a Janna, lol
Nope. Is “Janna” how you ended up naked with a wicked headache in a tub of ice, a huge bandage on your backside and a note advising you seek immediate medical attention?
No, it’s how you wake up to some Tim Hortons Doughnuts and some cinnamon coffee, in a jacuzzi.
Sounds expensive.
If you can swing a few twonies you can afford a loonie.
I’ve got a few maple leaves, a junior mountie pin, a clean lumberjack shirt and a book of pressed wild flowers.
What’ll that get me?
North North America.
One can dream of utopia…
Pretty sure the coastal red states already have lots of oil platforms.
The thing is an abandoned oil platform makes an excellent platform for a wind turbine. Windmills are also damned convenient to power offshore oil platforms:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/23/norway-worlds-biggest-floating-wind-farm-will-power-oil-and-gas-platforms
Besides red states LOVE turbine windmills! After all what iconic, dripping with nostalgia Norman Rockwell picture of a traditional American farm is complete without a turbine windmill? Farmers are notoriously cheap bastards and windmills are a damned cheap way to get water out of the ground.
“Can we have a discussion about the new Trump Administration that’s civil and reasonable?”
That’s only possible if Trump, his gang and his supporters start to behave in a civil and reasonable way.
And I don’t see that happening.
Take the blinders off then. Hard for them to act reasonable when everyone is calling them nazis so hard they tried assassinating trump twice. Practice what you preach boywich
“look what you made me do”
“They” you mean who? Because one at least was a supporter, the other was not quite right in the head, however still sent trump advice. Meanwhile take off your own blinders, not “everyone” is calling anyone Nazis, however unless you’re the victim of Tactic 2 through 4 of fascism, reading up a little should make it pretty clear why the comparisons to other authoritarians is being made. Or, you’re just OK with fascism.. It’s obviously appealing to some people.
I’m not okay with fascism. But I’m also not okay with controlling the information flow and shutting down dissent, not unlike how the previous admin did. I’m not okay with pricing people out of their homes and cars so you can win a popularity contest with the Europeans, not unlike how the previous admin did. I’m not okay with discounting people because they won’t blow smoke up your ass and tell you how great you are, not unlike how the previous admin did. I dont think either side is particularly great but the fact that it seems one side is not even willing to entertain the other side or are optimistic that they could come around to being reasonable is hypocritical and a big part of the reason we’re in this mess as a country. If trump is as bad and his supporters are as unreasonable as you and the other guy say then he shouldn’t have won. More of an indictment of the other side than his side that they’d rather go with the “authoritarian”
“But I’m also not okay with controlling the information flow and shutting down dissent”
Hmmm… you’re “not okay” with shutting down dissent. Funny given that is the EXACT thing Trump and his gang do… to people like Adam Kinsinger
Again… your type has a little problem with ‘hypocrisy’. This is yet another example of it.
Stupid is as stupid does?
Calling someone what they are does not make you the villain. Do you also think people who testify against murderers are the real problem?
Ah found the MAGA-apologist!
And who is “they”?
And I do practice what I preach. Maybe YOU and your kind should take notes because your kind has a little problem with hypocrisy…
Watch your fucking mouth. I’m not maga at all. I’m an American. I call shit how it is. If the progressives focused more on their things instead of trumps he wouldn’t have even been on the ballot this year. They rode his dick and brought back to relevancy. They had him beat. Lost the election, the black eye of the insurrection, and he was deplatformed. They ran the country for the last 4 years focused on a boogeyman they created while the rest of us had to watch. They did it to themselves and I don’t feel bad for them
“Watch your fucking mouth.”
LOL. Again another example of your hypocrisy!!!
Let me repeat what I said “That’s only possible if Trump, his gang and his supporters start to behave in a civil and reasonable way.”
So YOU expect ME to be to be polite… but you’re firmly in the camp of “do as I say, but not as I do”
Got it!
“I’m not maga at all.”
I don’t believe you.
“I call shit how it is.”
And that would be the Trump administration… an administration that I’m reasonably sure you voted for.
Another example of your hypocrisy.
“They rode his dick and brought back to relevancy. ”
Classy statement… sounds very MAGA.
“They did it to themselves and I don’t feel bad for them”
No… actually the real reason Criminal Trump got back in is because the USA has a problem with misogyny as well as racism. And Trump played to those people very well.
That’s the truth… and YOU watch MY mouth… because my mouth is telling you the cold hard truth.
Suck it up buttercup!
Meet me in the south bronx tonight
Oh you’re sooo civil and reasonable! LOL
Let me repeat my original comment:
“Can we have a discussion about the new Trump Administration that’s civil and reasonable?”
That’s only possible if Trump, his gang and his supporters start to behave in a civil and reasonable way.
And I don’t see that happening.
Congratulations Knighcowboy… you just proved EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
Right. Last I checked you guys were the ones that started calling me names. You guys were ganging up on me because I disagree with you and won’t drink your kool-aid. All I was saying that this aggrogant “i know everything, they can’t reasonable, everyone else is this or that or the other” angle you’re taking is why we’re in this mess. I feel bad for you buddy. Idk about you but I’m gonna try to be optimistic for the next 4 years while you’re hiding under your wife’s boyfriends bed from the world
“Last I checked you guys were the ones that started calling me names”
Initially I didn’t call you anything.
“You guys were ganging up on me because I disagree with you”
You say stupid things that don’t add up. You accuse those opposed to Trump of doing the very thing that Trump and his supporters do all the time.
Not acting in a civil way? That’s the Trump crowd.
Being a hypocrite? That’s the Trump crowd.
Hell… YOU helped me prove my point… but it’s clear the message hasn’t sunk in.
” “i know everything, they can’t reasonable,”
I never said ‘I know everything’. But having said that, the Trump administration and its supporters seem to take pride in NOT doing their homework on given subjects and wear their ignorance with pride… and seem to also take pride in making shit up… such as your claim that I said “I know everything”… which I clearly did not say.
Buddy… the more you say, the more you prove my point.
” I feel bad for you buddy”
Don’t worry… I’ll be fine.
” while you’re hiding under your wife’s boyfriends bed from the world”
Except I’m doing nothing of the sort. I’m actually going to keep trying to talk some sense into knuckheads like you… because I’m still an optimist at heart!
Whatever dude do what you want. Keep alienating the people that disagree with you. I’m moving forward. I wish you the best of luck with your therapist
Hey are we still meeting up in South Bronx tonight?
LOL
Wya
In general, you are both making valid arguments based on your own perspectives. The difference is that you are coming across as very angry and aggressive, while Manwich is making logical and reasonable statements to counter your angry and aggressive statements.
It appears Mexico and Canada both maintain the ultimate “trump card” to respond to US tariff threats – they can simply allow in Chinese electric vehicles.
As a Canadian, I look forward to cheaper used car prices when it becomes economically unviable to ship our used trucks/SUVs south. Which we currently do.
Also, we should just stop importing any and all Teslas, instead we’ll bring in BYD. IDGAF.
I didn’t realize this was a thing until my FIL bought a used F150 from Canada. Seems so random, but sounds like it’s common.
I did this by accident, I bought a 09 Ford Ranger and it doesn’t have AC (Standard in the US) and the user manual is in English and French lol
There are entire dealerships along the northern border of the US who specialize in Canadian imports.
The dollar buying power makes it a good deal for both sides. Unless you’re up here trying to buy used.
Yeah I was in Toronto a few weeks ago. Exchange rate was brutal for the locals.
I’m SO sorry you had to experience Toronto.
Yeah, I’ve been looking at F150’s listings lately and am paying attention to the door jamb sticker – alot of them are Canadian.
If you Canadians would quit sending vast numbers of people here, we can talk. Or maybe just give us Greenland. What’s that? Greenland isn’t part of Canada? Shut up. That’s just fake news.
For the last time, they’re called Snowbirds and they’re propping up Florida and Arizona.
BIRDS AREN’T REAL
Snowbirds are old people. Unlike the
attackdronesGeese we send down every fall.Canadians have a reputation for being polite and welcoming. Those damn Canadian Geese are anything but! They tried to eat my dachshund.
They used to be polite, but they spend their winters in the US and picked up all sorts of bad habits. Pretty common to see them with handguns now.
Jesus if we give geese handguns we won’t have humans pretty soon.
I’m starting to wonder if that’s necessarily a bad thing.
Better they get bad habits from Americans than pigeons.
We focus all our hate and anger into the Geese and send them south to disperse it. Anything that didn’t fit in the Geese gets relocated to Alberta.
And by “geese” you really mean “weaponized spy drones”. MERICA FISRT!!!1!!
We gave up on the spying when we realised we can just indiscriminately attack anything south of the 49th parallel and still advance our goals.
I am learning so much about Canada right now, eh!
Everything I needed to know about Canada I learned from The Adventures of Bob and Doug McKenzie: Strange Brew.
Beauty, eh’?
You’re welcome to a cold snack and more learnin’ if you ever make it up here. I think we need an Autopian North meet.
Preventing private companies that want to pay the US government money to develop offshore wind is just stupid.
If you had a wind farm ruining the beautiful views of your golf course you too would hate those damn wind turbines and do everything to stick it too them.
I’m not going to complain about potentially lower gas prices but there is in fact a floor for oil prices below which it is no longer viable for the US to pump oil from the ground. Recall when crude prices dropped to zero in 2020 that event was quickly followed by massive layoffs in the oil industry since it wasn’t profitable to produce oil, when demand rebounded it seemed to take them a bit of time to ramp back up. State sponsored oil production elsewhere seems to not have these types of issues.
I do worry about the US rolling back EV initiatives, not necessarily because I’m all in on EVs but because the rest of the world is. The US being a laggard on electric vehicle tech while the world moves on does not help us long term if every other country is moving to it. Not providing the the push is to build a house on shifting sands and basically ensure global dominance of the passenger vehicle market goes to China.
The exact thing already happened with solar panels. We could’ve been the world leader in production and had cheap, green electricity for everyone in the country, which would have made us stronger and more resilient as a country. Too bad wanting to dominate an industry and get filthy rich is “communist” when the industry is renewables.
We are going to be cavemen banging rocks together to make sparks while the rest of the world leaves us behind.
I’ve never been able to wrap my head around this antipathy to green energey (in spite of trying because it’s one of the few things that feels even close to worth discussion.) It seems like there would more pragmatism on the right about this, the rest of the world is moving away from fossil fuels. The USA can grin and bear it and become a leader or we can be left in the dust and relegated to a has-been. Once I would’ve thought this was something that most americans could agree on, but don’t know how to have a conversation with people who want are sticking their heads in the sand and pretending the clock can be rewound to idk 1940? 1895??
Rich oil executives don’t want anything that threatens their business model. It’s as simple as that.
I mean of course, but a lot of people voted for this guy, it’s crazy (and sad) to me that so many seem to belive this can and will be good for the USA for anything more than the very near term.
Rich oil executives can get just as rich on green energy.
Coal miners and oil field workers OTOH cannot.
Oil field workers could start drilling geothermal wells. There was IRA money flowing to oil field services companies to explore this new business.
Offshore oil industry logistics are perfectly suited to wind. There was IRA money helping them explore this.
IRA subsidies for hydrogen and CO2 capture were also flowing to oil and chemical industries to assist in a transition.
The oil industry could profitably transition to renewables. It’s just more profitable to keep doing the same thing. Until it isn’t— like a climate-change-driven super hurricane wipes out the entire refining and logistics infrastructure of the gulf coast. Short sighted morons.
Perhaps. I think though there are a lot fewer geothermal holes to drill than there were oil holes. And none of that helps coal miners much.
There are fewer geothermal holes, for now. DOE is pretty bullish on enhanced geothermal, AKA geothermal +fracking, and there are a lot of opportunities for that in Texas. (see map below).
The poor coal miners though. There’s literally nothing for the coal miners.
https://www2.nrel.gov/gis/geothermal
I hear China has LOTS of coal!
I dunno what the state of the art is now but a few decades ago geothermal had a lot of problems with corrosion. The stuff coming up from the ground just ate through all the metal. That increased costs to the point of unprofitability.
There was a similar problem with rocket engines. Up till the 90’s western rocket engines were relatively inefficient because the hot turbo pump exhaust was dumped rather than being funneled into the main engine because it was too corrosive for the materials of the time. A fix was deemed “impossible” by the best and brightest of NASA, Aerojet, Rocketdyne and the others.
Little did those bet and brightest know that the Soviets had solved that metallurgical problem in the ’60s and as such had much more efficient rocket engines that did funnel the turbo pump exhaust into the main engine. Nobody in the west had any idea, including the intelligence services – till the Soviet Union fell and the Russians needed cash fast. It was quite the state secret.
Since then I’ve wondered if any of that Commie rocket science trickled over to geothermal. Seems like it should have.
Totally agree. Even if someone disagrees with the inflation reduction act, it is clear to see that it did cause real investment in American manufacturing. There was a period of time where almost weekly a new manufacturing facility of some sort was being announced for green energy.
I’ve gone 12 (maybe 42?) rounds with my old man, so to speak, about green energy. The information that he relies on comes either from the book State of Fear, or Fox News. The end of the story is that those people only see and focus on all the negative aspects of these forms of power generation, and will trumpet them loudly to make them seem bigger than they are.
And you make a great point about the US being leaders in this manufacturing. The hard part is that it takes investment and time, and people around these parts don’t seem to want to give up either if they can keep making money doing the same old thing.
The somewhat circular logic seems to be “well gov’t shouldn’t be involved in declaring financial winners and losers” thus we need to default to the status quo-ignoring that the oil system isn’t nearly as free market as the average MAGA supporter would like to believe.
Like there’s a timeline in which economic protectionism and isolationism is supported by the left (and maybe was at one point-I know Bernie was actually promoting more sane versions of some of this stuff?) but we ceded that ground many years ago with globalism-I don’t think that’s a closable Pandora’s box. I’ll also add that while it’s obviously had costs, it does seem like globabilism has maybe been good for worldwide peace-though possibly at the expense of middle american propserity.
Unrelated: Hello fellow Sandwich!
haha, sandwich usernames unite
What’s funny about “drill baby drill” is that there is little to no incentive for the guys who actually, you know, drill, to reduce the price per barrel of oil down from where it currently sits. Trump might fantasize about $2.00/gallon gas but the last time it was that low was because demand was nonexistent and the industry was in free-fall. As has been pointed out the actual route to lower energy prices is through wind and solar but something something birds something.
To add to that, my understanding is that the oil we pump is shipped out and we buy cheaper, lower quality oil from overseas. As such our refineries aren’t set up to process US sourced oil so the people pumping will make more and the end consumer (us) will pay the same.
There is such a misunderstanding from the general public on how things actually work vs how they think (sometimes reasonably) it is working, myself included as I learn often.
It’s almost as if the general public are not experts on most things and we ought to acknowledge that it’s okay to not know things and to not have a strong vocal opinion about things we don’t know about. But sadly social media has given every crackpot with an uninformed opinion a megaphone.
But I saw it on the internet!!!!
Also, the newest major refinery in the US was built in the 1970’s.
That’s what I’ve been saying for years. Oil companies are going to spend more on exploration and new drilling, to increase supply and therefore charge LESS for their product? I’m neither an economist nor oil expert, but that makes zero sense to me.
OTOH, maybe he actually WILL being back sub-2.00 gas prices, by crashing the economy and killing demand.
Through various rally-related activities, I spend a lot of time in rural areas. For these folks, they have electricity for which they complain about the rates, or delivered propane, which is more expensive than natural gas. Many have wood stoves or wood furnaces for heat, and many have set up solar panels. They personally see how cheap solar power can be, but apparently still buy into this anti-renewable hype.
But the wind turbines make the whales go nuts! lol
At least one whale…
“Musk, a huge supporter of Trump who was seen all over the inauguration furiously and awkwardly waving at people”
Is that what we’re calling Nazi salutes these days?
I didn’t see what he did, and I tend to believe the worst about Musk, but the BBC quotes the Anti-defamation League (ADL) as saying, “It seems that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute,”
Others have different opinions, but the ADL doesn’t generally give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to antisemitism.
It is pretty unambiguously a Nazi salute, and he did it twice in a row. I’m not sure what the ADL is doing, but there is no way to read it as anything else unless you’re really trying hard.
Like I said, I didn’t see it and there are various opinions out there. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if it was a fascist (Roman – Mussolini – Hitler) solute, but there are different interpretations from sources that would generally be among the first to call it out.
The easiest thing to do would be to seek out the video, but it was a gesture which went from hand on heart to arm outstretched at an upward angle, in the exact motion and configuration that you can see in all documentary footage of the Nazi party doing that salute, including Hitler himself. And, to underline that it wasn’t an accident, he turned around and did the same motion to the people behind him.
People are sanewashing, but it is not ambiguous.
Just waiting for your condemnation of Obama and Kamala for doing the exact same thing. Nazis are everywhere!
Or maybe this “sanewashing” you complain of is just sane people who’s critical faculties are not, in a fashion eerily similar to neurosyphalis, completely fried to a crisp by late stage Musk/Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Link to a video of the Obama/Kamala images you posted and you’ll see the context isn’t even comparable.
Then what did he do? What is your reasonable explanation for an action that is exactly the same motion as something chronicled in films such as Triumph of the Will?
I know it’s generally ill-advised to engage with trolls, especially those interested in defending obvious fascist, so I’m not going to reply very much. I’m just curious what mental gymnastics you’re going to use to try to claim what we can see very plainly with our eyes is not what we are seeing.
Yeah they are totally the same…. It would be a shame if there were video clips to the contrary.
Kamala:
https://imgur.com/a/6i2Zx4F
Elon:
https://imgur.com/dDoi7jq
show the video and not just screenshots, you know damn well Obama and Kamala weren’t doing the same thing Elon was out there doing.
Go ahead and just use your real name Eric…
Saw it this morning, 100% a nazi salute. He’s made it clear in the past that he’s a huge antisemite, and now he owns the government.
I just watched the video. I have also watched a LOT of pre war historical footage in which actual Nazis gave actual, very passionate salutes to thunderous calls of Heil Hitler. What Musk did was at best a very, very sloppy salute. Even a high school dropout neo Nazi would be ashamed of it.
If Musk wants to be taken seriously as a Nazi he really needs to work on his technique.
I give it a D- Come on Elon, you can do better.
He needs a degree of plausible deniability. These are dog whistles that are beginning increasingly louder and more obvious as he realizes he is more and more insulated from consequences.
Give it a few weeks for DOGE to become real, Elon will get USSS protection, and he’ll start tweeting about his SS division.
If I was a high powered business executive accused of making a Hitler salute, I would publicly apologize and take a cultural sensitivity class. I wouldn’t rage about DEI initiatives, signal boost far-right German political parties, and say that my critics “need better dirty tricks.”
“Elon will get USSS protection, and he’ll start tweeting about his SS division.”
He’s going to run a division of the Secret Service too?
The muskrat is shit at everything he does, look at the recent video game controversy.
Henry Ford 2.0 indeed.
It’s all over the news. If you haven’t seen it, you have been consciously avoiding it. If you’re interested, you can press play on the BBC page you are referencing, or you can scroll to the top of the page where the picture of him doing it is the header for the article.
I consciously avoid watching videos of news, no argument there. I’d rather read an article. Also, I’m in a bad enough funk without watching the reprehensible (regardless of how it was intend) actions of Elon Musk.
Then why interject if you have nothing intelligent to say about the matter? It makes you seem like a bad faith troll.
I simply reported what the ADL said as reported by BBC. I even started by saying I didn’t see it. Not trolling, just an alternative to jumping to conclusions.
How is it bad faith to point out that the ADL doesn’t think its a Nazi Salute, direct evidence that he has in fact read an article on the topic?
Certain world events have made it clear that the ADL has ceded credibility when it comes to matters of right wing authoritarianism.
Or it just may be that the ADL is more interested in the money v. the cause, because…
None so blind as he who refuses to see. Right?
Thanks, your opinion has been noted, Col. Please note that I never indicated that I don’t care or follow news, I said I didn’t watch it. I read about it, and yes, the general consensus was that it was a fascist salute. I’m not defending it. However there was a notable dissent from the ADL, a group that is widely considered to be very sensitive to antisemitism. While there may be some issues with the ADL’s credibility, as explained to me below, I didn’t know that at the time. I have since watched the video and my conclusion is that it was a poorly performed nazi salute.
I’d say that there are none so blind as those who jump to conclusions and refuse to consider other possibilities that don’t fit their preconceived narrative.
Agreed. No issues with that take.
The ADL’s own definition of the Nazi Salute is that it “consists of raising an outstretched right arm with the palm down.” Not to mention the ADL has had a recent history of a clear blind spot defending or explaining away far right and fascist leaning groups, while Musk has been on record defending those same groups and actual neo-nazis. While I complete understand and sympathize with your initial assessment, the reality is some of these historically trusted groups don’t deserve their credibility anymore.
I was not aware of issues with the ADL’s credibility. It sucks that they would tacitly accept this sort of thing.
Admittedly, I was not either until recently, and I should also do more direct research as to validate this, rather than blindly parrot what I see online. That said, a recent example that’s fairly damning is that they have been heavily pushing the idea that to criticize the state of Israel, or the concept of Zionism in any way, is in itself anti-Semitic, which on it’s own is in line with aggressively fascist lines of thinking. Wikipedia’s editors have stated the ADL is no longer a reliable resource with regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Also, just last year, the ADLs head of their Center for Technology and Society resigned (according to an anonymous insider) explicitly BECAUSE the ADLs CEO had been heavily praising Elon Musk. Her resignation shortly followed that of a few other staffers of the ADL who quit in light of another ADL post on the situation in Gaza. All of this to say, in matters involving Musk, and likely Gaza/Israel, it’s clear the ADL should be patently ignored.
That’s really interesting and disheartening. Thanks for the info.
Yeah, it’s a damn shame unfortunately, but based on the discourse that’s going around, I feel it’s important to share.
One would have to be a fool to trust an organization like that. You do you and all that, but the ADL is just another corporation in sheep’s clothing.
How people still fall for the ruse is beyond me.
You would actively trust an organization that has billions in the coffers to adhere to what is morally correct? lol
I have to agree with this take. If the ADL isn’t calling it a Nazi Salute, then its hard to take anyone elses opinion very seriously. They have the most reason to call out anything anti-Semitic. But Musk is also a troll, and had a political stage, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s testing boundaries, just for the sake of doing so.
That was my initial thought as well, but after doing a bit of digging, I don’t think I can trust the ADL on matters specifically regarding Musk. To save everyone the confusion, I’ll copy/paste what I responded with above, but here’s the unfortunate reality of the situation.
A recent example that’s fairly damning is that they (ADL) have been heavily pushing the idea that to criticize the state of Israel, or the concept of Zionism in any way, is in itself anti-Semitic, which on it’s own is in line with aggressively fascist lines of thinking. Wikipedia’s editors have stated the ADL is no longer a reliable resource with regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Also, just last year, the ADLs head of their Center for Technology and Society resigned (according to an anonymous insider) explicitly BECAUSE the ADLs CEO had been heavily praising Elon Musk. Her resignation shortly followed that of a few other staffers of the ADL who quit in light of another ADL post on the situation in Gaza. All of this to say, in matters involving Musk, and likely Gaza/Israel, it’s clear the ADL should be patently ignored.
Thank you for providing context, not just making statements.
Of course! Over the past few years I’ve come to the firm understanding that all claims made without evidence can be dismissed in kind. While having values and beliefs and a moral compass is important, if you never allow yourself to grow and change when presented with new evidence, you’ll end up exactly like whatever “that group” is that you dislike, regardless of ideology.
The internet is far too full of baseless claims without context, so if I’m going to say anything to challenge a viewpoint, I want to make sure I have ground to stand on.
The ADL often covers for their right wing allies here in the US.
He made a clear Nazi salute, then turned to the left and did it again.
If you see it, you’ll know. It was pretty unmistakable. And he did it TWICE.
The “it means from the heart” chodes are the same as the “actually, the swastika is a sign of peace and prosperity” morons.
Once something is co-opted by evil, there’s no taking it back.
They are suggesting it meant “from heart to (something)” (the something I can’t recall what my wife said last night. Also, it supposedly has a double tap on the heart.
tldr; the suggestion is that they are trying to re-write the definition of a Nazi solute
There’s 1 partial part of like the 1st quoted paragraph that I somewhat agree with, the “ideological regulations”. There should be a balance between full sending EVs and let’s drill more and cat delete our trucks.
If it were run like a business, when the economy is booming, invest in EVs/battery tech/solar/wind, the future. When we’re in a recession, hunker down and crank out the Mitsubishi Mirages and Ford Festivas for people to afford.
I’m a proponent of EVs, cheap EVs, for those that want them and can easily accommodate the charging, and they help our energy independence. But when we’re in a recession and every car make is dropping their entry level offerings and trying to sell $50k/$70k/$100k+ EV Suvs, that’s not helping.
So as bad as this all seems(and some of the executive orders yesterday were REALLY bad), I feel like we need a little reality check on idealogical regulations. Students need to pay back their loans, not everyone can afford or accomodate an EV, people in Cali need affordable places to live, even more so now. And bundling in money for free public chargers and EV coupons, or any ‘free’ stuff(cause it’s not ‘free’) to an ‘inflation reduction’ act seem counter-productive.
If he actually implements those tariffs – doubtful – it will obliterate domestic automotive manufacturing. Except, suspiciously, Tesla.
Here’s the thing, the major manufacturers have an incredibly tightly integrated supply network across North America. Any vehicle made in the US, Canada, or Mexico has a ton of parts made from any one of those other countries. Slap a tariff on any of that, and you’re suddenly shooting the cost of manufacture up substantially.
However, in his musings, the tariffs on non-neighbor countries are going to be lower. So it’s going to make way more sense to import from another continent than actually build in North America at all. And since manufacturers tend to have their supply chains integrated differently on different continents, why manufacture in North America? Close all of the plants here, bring your stuff in from elsewhere, it’s less volatile.
But let’s talk about the “suspiciously, Tesla” part of my statement. Because it has built its supplier networks differently from everyone else, they have very high domestic content levels and rely relatively little on the US’s local trading partners. So they would increase prices a bit, but not as much as other North American manufacturers. Are they nervous about the Equinox EV? Not for long, the Model Y is going to be cheaper if the tariffs are implemented.
But one thing that would backfire hard is that they are trying to limit Chinese imports but are making them a lot more compelling in Canada and Mexico. Suddenly we have no more incentive to harmonize with the US on that front – our manufacturing has been cut off at the knees, our trade relationship is in tatters, and nations have a remarkable ability to hold their nose when it’s the only way to keep their economy in one piece. If a reliable trading partner decides to be chaotic, who cares what they think anymore? Might as well open that port for a container ship filled with Funky Cats.
Also let’s not sanewash Musk. When it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, waves it’s arm like a man with a small mustache who lived in Germany in the ’30s, it’s a milkshake duck.
People are saying that Funky Cats are filled with drugs, so a full naval blockade is totally justified.
Except for the fact that Tesla is the least profitable of his companies. If I were in that position, and he certainly is, Tesla is a “meh” thing compared to government money. And, whoo boy, is that saying someting.
At this point Twitter is definitely the least profitable of his companies.
Plus, while that CEO spends an inordinate time playing Diablo and promoting fascist conspiracy theories, typically a CEO attempts to maximize profits from all areas of their business.
Drill baby drill so we can go from the top oil producing country in the world to top oil producing country in the world. Rolling back on Ev’s will be the destruction of our auto industry. They will fall far behind. The government shapes markets all the time and this is one of those times where we should be a leader.
Before anyone comes in about free market, the oil industry has been propped up with tax dollars and cuts for a hundred years already.
We won’t have the electricity for EVs soon. That’s the real reality.
It’s absolutely not true and its not even a difficult issue to overcome compared to the damage we are doing by not going forward with EVs.
Are you sure about that? Look at what data centers cost to operate, and how many new ones are about to go live. It’s ginormous, and so is the money that will go there. If you aren’t onboard with it, you will be dust.
It’s the reality. The net benefit of an EV is kitty litter grains compared to what is about to happen globally.
Thanks for listening to it Matt. The balming effect was indeed the intent for these trying times. It’s been on a loop in my head for days now.
Also, I just really like Latin Jazz and want everyone to experience the same joy.
I’ve been listening to a lot of Louis Armstrong, Sidney Bechet, Duke Ellington, etc. lately. Great music for the current climate.
You might want to add Ben Webster and Coleman Hawkins to that list. Sax Swing Jazz is also the best.
Don’t forget Winston Marselles. That dude can rock a jam.
They don’t build anything too popular in Canada anyway. Nobody buys RAV4s, CR-Vs, Civics, Silverados…/s
I’m all for the Canadian tariffs until they start shipping the Poutine Edition of the RAV4 south of their boarder.
I thought everyone here liked brown things
When I first saw it I thought it was a joke/meme or something, but apparently Hyundai launched a limited run of “NHL Edition” Santa Fe’s in Canada last year. It was a variant of the top trim level, came predictably in all white, and I guess you could choose your favorite team’s logos to be added to some bits of trim.
Stupid generally ignores facts that don’t comport with belief. Not that I’m calling anyone stupid… 😉
I’m going to get “I fucking told you so” tattooed on my arm so I can point to it any time people who did not vote for Harris whine about how something Trump is doing is hurting them.
I’m going to tell those folks that, “Trump TOLD you he was going to this and you chose not to believe him.” It seems hate and hurting “the other people” was more important.
Your pointing arm is going to get ripped.
at least they could get into professional arm wrestling.
I made the remark to a couple close friends and family the week of the election: I’m not going to fight the outcome because it was quite clear. However, in regard to Trump voters, please don’t make me have to come out and say “I told you so.”
That would be a bad idea, lol. Why would you brand yourself like that?
I mean, when Musk already Godwinned the whole discussion on Day 1 (intentionally or, more likely, unintentionally), it’s going to be one of those “grab the popcorn” kind of weeks.
All I will say is this, completely objectively and apolitically: Trump’s speech yesterday was among the most rambling, esoteric, and incoherent public addresses I’ve ever seen. It was like a drunk uncle in the closing hours of a wedding that’s already gone on too long.
If so many of us ragged on Biden for his diction/eloquence issues, I struggle with how this guy’s ability to formulate thoughts and convey them verbally is any better. That’s an important skillset for a leader.
The hypocrisy is the point. Rules don’t apply if you are in the in-group. They are for outsiders only.
‘Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Jean-Paul Sartre
It was intentional. He did it twice in a row.
Just in case someone missed it the first time…
I was at a Cake concert back in September (yes, that Cake!) and John McCrea led some audience singalongs where he started hand motions like a quasi-nazi salute, saying “Better get warmed up, in a couple months you might be doing this a lot more…”
Not to be confrontational, but Biden is the walking corpse you hope your grandpa doesn’t become. I’m not saying “ol’ wavy grains of wheat” hair is better, but he’s certainly not worse.
Wouldn’t have to delay anything if investment hadn’t been impeded for multiple decades. Now we need to resort to a fighting retreat in order to hope to become competitive one day.
P.S. the tariffs have nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with heading off Chinese investment and trade. Chinese parts assembled as a vehicle in Mexico counts as a Mexican vehicle, and can be imported under NAFTA/USMCA
Are you arguing that the immigration issue is a cover? It seems like Trump stated exactly that the tariffs would be a response to those countries failures to prevent illegal immigration. I don’t feel like he is concerned enough to hide an anti china economic maneuver behind immigration. He seems like the type who would just say it.
It is, because it doesn’t make any sense. There isn’t substantial illegal immigration from Canada.
But what it’s actually a cover for is less clear. He’s openly said that he wants to annex Canada and would use “economic warfare” to do so. Why? Who the hell knows.
I’m willing to concede that it could be a cover. I don’t think Anti-China Sentiment fits though. Much in the way you said immigration from Canada isn’t anywhere near the issue it is from Mexico, China isn’t currently trying to build any factories in Canada that I’m aware of.
Trump thinks the trade deficient is how much additional money Canada should be spending on military equipment.
I can’t know exactly why, but I can make guesses. As Citrus noted, the smoking gun is complaining about Canadian immigration. It wouldn’t take a leap of faith to think that Canada is within China’s “investment” crosshairs, especially if Mexico didn’t pan out. Therefore, I would not use the lack of Chinese investment in Canada as a counter point.
I would guess that the smoke and mirrors is because we’ve been here before. Trump already made a stink about NAFTA and replaced it with the USMCA. Going back to this topic is admitting that he failed to get that right, which, going off of the expansion of Chinese influence, you could say that he indeed missed the mark on that (that’s also not touching the point of what exactly did USMCA really gain us in the first place, but that’s neither here nor there). The point is that he blew the NAFTA revamp load. Extremely blatant trade wars also come with much more baggage. Think of it this way. I announce tariffs on you. You announce tariffs on me. Everything is fair. I secretly get my trading partner to stop playing a good middleman for you, and now you look like the arsehole if you announce tariffs.
Looping immigration into the loop is a win-win. It’s easy to trumpet. It’s legally straightforward, and he can get two birds stoned at once by getting immigration acted on AND a backroom unannounced deal for Chinese investment within the USCMA trade bloc. Expect to hear nothing about that last part, but also expect to not see billions of dollars worth of Chinese expansion if an “immigration” deal goes through.
“Can we have a discussion about the new Trump Administration that’s civil and reasonable? Can we all air our opinions and challenge one another in a way that’s productive? We can give it a shot.”
Nope, not on the Internet
Perhaps, when the new Trump Administration becomes civil and reasonable. In other words, never.
Ain’t nothing cheaper than free. Solar and wind are free once the collectors are built. Also complimentary to a degree since wind tends to blow when the sun doesn’t shine. Nothing is perfect so storage needs to be done too. Cleaning up from excess sunlight is easy. Excess wind is a little harder, but nowhere near as hard as cleaning up spilled oil or as flammable as leaking gas.
Also, putting renewable energy equipment plants in heavily Republican areas is a stroke of genius. Those are good paying jobs which no governor or state representative wants to see go away. Something says given the choice between working in a clean, conditioned factory or getting covered in petrochemicals at a well, most people would pick the factory. Nice little intraparty fight brewing there.
I like wind and I like solar. However, neither are “clean”. The solar manufacturing process produces vast amounts of hazardous waste and the panels and other infrastructure have a relatively short useful life. Can it be part of a solution? Of course, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the very real issues that it creates. Wind too has its issues. Wind farms kill millions of flying animals each year. In my opinion, this needs to be addressed as it is analogous to the habitat destruction issues inherent with hydroelectric dams. Then there is the problem of what to do with the old blades and other equipment used in wind farms. Unfortunately these tend to have a relatively short useful life. Nuclear has the issue of spent fuel rods. Coal/other fossil fuels? We all know the problems there.
There’s no such thing as clean energy. Everything we do has an environmental cost. We should look to use the cleanest production methods possible, but we shouldn’t ignore the problems they cause.
This is not even remotely close to true. The on-going routine and non-routine maintenance costs of both are considerable, and comparable to other sources of energy, especially if you have to deal with catastrophic weather events that uniquely effect renewables (ie- hailstorms can be devastating to a solar farm, a nuclear or natural gas plant doesn’t care in the slightest). You also have very large decommissioning costs for both solar and wind, and recycling PV cells and turbine blades remains very much uneconomical at present, so all of that just ends up in a land fill.
They are only ‘free’ in the sense they don’t pay for on-going fuel costs, but neither does hydro power, and nuclear is so efficient the fuel costs are basically zero compared to everything else.
There is a HUGE difference between having a turbine blade to recycle and having a solar cell to recycle, versus NOT having burnt gas to recycle.
We very much can figure out how to recycle the spent solar and wind farms, but very much cannot replace the oil we burn.
There was a photo going around several years ago of turbine blades being placed in a landfill as a “gotcha.” Of course, there was no extra context to indicate how much power they had generated vs. the waste from coal ash, as well as mercury or carbon emissions.
Solar panels are also good for a couple of decades, at least. What we’re seeing right now is a lot of large scale solar plants upgrading panels as efficiency improves, but the old ones aren’t being scrapped. They go to secondary markets where people are happy to have a slightly less efficient panel at a substantial discount on up front cost.
As for hail…large commercial farms commonly adjust the panels to track the sun, so when there is a severe weather threat, they can be angled to minimize or completely avoid damage.
The economics of trackers is no longer very good. It is cheaper to install more panels at a fixed angle because panels are so cheap now.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at- my point was there are significant on-going costs in running solar and wind farms, they are very far from “free once you’ve built the collector,” and any analysis that assumes that is going to be fatally flawed.
Not to be pedantic, but we very much can- all of the hydrocarbons that we are extracting from the ground used to be in the atmosphere, back when the CO2 concentrations were 10x of current levels in the Cambrian period. Over many millions of years, that carbon was absorbed by organisms which then died in big strata of sea bed which was then subducted below other seabed thanks to plate tectonics, and add a few more million years, heat, and pressure and voila– dino juice.
We can short-cut this reaction via modern chemistry (the Sabatier process) and directly convert atmospheric carbon into burnable hydrocarbons with sufficient energy inputs, it’s once again just a question of the economics of doing so. Very similar reactions (the Haber process) are the only reason we can feed the most of the planet because there is nowhere near enough naturally fixed nitrogen in our arable land to support 8 billion people.
All of these questions come down to “how much does energy cost,” and the cheaper you can get energy the better absolutely everything else becomes.
While you are technically correct, you are certainly being pedantic. Nothing you suggest is a better solution to wind or solar.
Are you suggesting we use modern chemistry instead of wind and solar?
The cost of alternatives to continued use of fossil fuels is certainly relevant. That probably would be less of a barrier if fossil fuels pricing included the entire cost of impact, which includes particulate and chemical pollution (from exhaust and from extraction and processing) along with the future effects of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide. They don’t.
And they’re unlikely to cover those costs until they’re in relatively uncommon use, in part because most Western electorates are pretty insulated from the consequences. Wildfires in the West and hurricanes and flooding on the East and Gulf coasts have expensive impacts and will require making some unpleasant choices, but in highly developed countries they won’t be existential problems in the way that sea level rise will be for people living on Pacific islands or in low-lying and poor areas such as Bangladesh. Increasing climactic challenges in agriculture will cause significant pain in the North American breadbasket and some northward migration for certain crops as well as higher prices at the supermarket, but the impact in hotter parts of the planet will make it harder for people there to eke out a living. particularly those who depend on subsistence farming. Persuading Europeans, North Americans and those in the highly developed parts of Asia to take on those costs, even when they are the ones who have disproportionately benefited from carbon dioxide production, will be difficult at the best of times and impossible during periods of economic anxiety, whether real or manufactured.
What ongoing costs for solar? I’ve had panels on my roof for six years. There’s been zero ongoing cost.
Commercial does have land lease or property taxes. But that’s any commercial power plant AFAIK.
No, there is a cost, it’s just rolled into your power bill. If you haven’t maintained your solar panels in six years, you are at the very least about 5.5 years overdue for a cleaning, so your panels aren’t as efficient as they would otherwise be. There might also be damage that’s affecting the output which again is power and hence money lost. There are also infrastructure costs to enable the grid to pull power from residential panels that also roll up under capital costs you (and everyone else) are paying for on your monthly bill.
Residential solar can be a great deal if you have the right conditions for it, but great deal != free.
Cleaning? That’s what the dew/rain is for. Where I am it rains regularly.
Maybe in a desert or constantly sunny environment.
These are less a cost (something you have to pay out of pocket to) and more of an efficiency loss. Yes, you are losing energy you could have, but it does not cost you anything out of pocket if your system is sized properly.
I feel like you are discussing something that does not practically exist simply for the sake of not support wind and solar.
I don’t get your angle from the perspective of trying to lower energy costs.
I had 6.5kW of rooftop solar installed on my house in May of 2016. That’s nearly nine years ago. You know how much I’ve spent so far on maintenance and repair? Near zero. I climb up on the roof (it’s a one-story house) three or four times a year and hose the dust off my panels. That’s it.
Good.
Trump’s term started with 1500+ pardons for the January 6th insurrectionists, if we’re going to be commenting on pardons that have nothing to do with the auto industry…
Yeah, I mean even if you supported the notion of (or motives for) what those people did, I can’t see how anyone can support assaulting a police officer. They act like this was the Boston Massacre or something. I thought this was the party of the Thin Blue Line and all that.
The hypocrisy is the point, “rules for thee, but not for me”. Pardoning the J6 scum is all about sending the message that loyalty to the leader (say it in german) is going to be rewarded.
My wife looked at me during the speech and said “J6 prisoners”?
I hadn’t even heard the term used formally until yesterday, and it was clear to me at that point that the group’s internal memes and talking points had infected their attempts to even convey ideas to a wider audience. An echo chamber in front of a worldwide audience.
I’d hate to see Canada’s auto industry struggle. I own 6 American cars, and of those, 4 were built in the US, and two were built in Canada. The Canadians can screw together a damn fine automobile. Of the factories that built my cars, one of the Canadian factories is now a god awful Amazon distribution center, and the other is still chugging along building the Brightdrop EVs.
The tariff threats against Canada and Mexico is just posturing so he can proclaim he fought the trade war and won, even if nothing changes at all.
That does seem the most likely. Setting a date for tariffs, but not far enough in the future for any real changes to be implemented, makes it seem like it would have been done right away if it were a sure thing. I really hope it’s posturing, because significant tariffs on Canada and Mexico will probably be pretty rough in a lot of different ways.
Possibly, hopefully the same as the threats to annex Canada, Greenland, and Panama
At this point, I’m expecting to hear a demand to buy Australia and make Indonesia pay for it
Yep.
I’m waiting for Musk to propose drilling in the WAY outer shelf of Mars and building a pipeline to send it back to earth. I’m sure it’s being proposed in the Oval Office as we speak.