Welcome to our special Sunday Edition of Prove Me Wrong! This time it’s a bit different because you’re not actually proving me wrong, you’ll be proving our On-Staff Professional Real Authentic British Auto Designer, Adrian. Adrian is a stylish designer-man full of designer-man opinions, one of which we encountered the other day in the Autopian Corporate Slack Fellowship Hall, when David showed off his now-motile Chevy HHR and the Saab wheels it rode on. That’s when we learned that Adrian does not believe in cross-pollinating OEM cars and wheels.
Just so you understand the full situation, here’s how it played out. It started with this message from David:
David did ask for honest opinions here, so he’s getting what he wanted. I saw the Saab wheels and my first reaction was this:
Because, of course the Saab Inca wheels would be better. They’re always better. At this point, we were all having fun, gleefully enjoying the combination of wheel and car, and then whammo:
Oh shit. Now we’re in trouble. I pressed Adrian for clarification:
Of course, Adrian isn’t wrong that lots of effort, design and engineering-related, goes into the wheels chosen for a given car. No question about that. But does that really mean you can never do some mix-and-matching? Other Autopians chimed in:
I admire S.W. Gossin’s boss-level not-give-a-fuckery on that Stratus Coupé, and I think Adrian is delusional if he thinks Thomas has any clothes from Hugo Boss or Giorgio Armani. I know what we pay him. Seeing how this was going, I decided to stir the turd a bit:
I don’t know, I still think that looks pretty great. Knowing how much this was driving Adrian bonkers, I couldn’t help but remind him of the existence of these:
Yes, the Ronal Teddy Bears. You’d think that would be the trump card against anyone complaining about aftermarket wheels, right?
Anyway, here’s the takeaway: the genuine, professional car designer who works for us says that it’s a sin to put wheels from one carmaker onto another car. While I can understand this purist argument, I’m personally not sure I agree, as my fundamental automotive rule is the same as what Aleister Crowley proposed for his Thelemic brand of sorta-Satanism: Do What Thou Wilt.
If it’s making you happy on your own car, have at it. And, I do think there are some wheels that can work great visually crossing carmaker lines. But I never graduated from the Royal College of Art, of course.
So, let’s put it to the Autopian Collective Mind: is this okay? What do we think of mixing OEM cars and wheels? Tell us! Explain! Prove Adrian wrong!
This is totally OK. Go visit the FB group OEM Wheels on Other Makes and Models, and you’ll see some amazing stuff. Personally I have 350z wheels on my accord CH9, toyota BB wheels on my sera, and have done mini Cooper S wheels on my integra, BMW style 121 on my E39, V35 skyline wheels on my Toyota vista…you can always trust OEM quality and they’re much cheaper than aftermarket wheels (ignoring 2nd hand reps, but who would buy that)
What about from kissing cousins?
Picked up a set of Saturn Outlook rims to mount my winters on for my GMC Acadia. I’m liking the Saturn rims better.
Acadia: https://img.sm360.ca/ir/w1280h1024/images/inventory/gareau-auto-chevrolet-base/gmc/acadia/2012/27476845/27476845_07975_667007f89e34a4e08d20466c448e4a0a.jpg
Outlook: https://images.carpages.ca/inventory/8040547.287686486?w=640&h=480&q=75&s=40ea7bca02ce1dd0f24761aa04582ef9
This is acceptable
In the early days of #stanced, there was a white e36 coupe (I don’t think it was an m3, but could have been) on c4 corvette turbines with neon green accents. So bad it was great.
https://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vette_wheels_13.jpg
My 1953 Willys CJ3B rides atop 15×4.5″ steel trailer wheels. They were the only wheels I could find that would mate and would accept pizza cutter Power King M+S bias ply tires.
I’m more toward “what are you? An animal?” its fine so long as you use something generic, like its fine to BBS alloys on your 318i, its not ok to go to the junk yard and grab some wheels from a 190E. Its fine to fit some fantastic bead lock wheels to your new Bronco (even though I don’t like it) because you like the look – thats up to you, its you car. It is not OK to take the wheels off a totalled Jeep and stick them on there, especially if it still says ‘Jeep’ in the middle! So no! Sticking Saab wheels (especially if they say Saab) on a Chevrolet is not ok
The only legitimate engineering arguments against swapping will be about weight and offset.
Weight is obvious. Lower is better, as long as the wheel is strong enough.
Different offset will change the scrub radius and therefore the handling and stability in different conditions.
OEMs generally set a scrub radius that promotes stability, especially if one tire goes flat, or if the brakes are uneven, the correct (negative, I think) scrub radius will make the car more likely to track straight.
That said, lowering the scrub radius near 0 makes the car feel more nimble, and handle better; albeit less stable.
It is possible to find alternate wheels that have very similar offsets, and there are no single-value right and wrong answers, it’s a continuum between high effort-effort/stability and nimble/instability.
Given the scary cars I see on the roads, things that belong in junkyards; lifted trucks with huge mud tires doing 85+mph,with no visibility, no bumpers at the required height, and which have likely never been off the pavement; I think swapping OEM wheels is the least of our worries.
So, it’s your car, do as you will!
From an engineering and safety standpoint, using any roughly contemporary Saab wheels on a Chevy HHR should be no worse than using Pontiac Grand Am ones.
In terms of style, the Saab 9-3 and its’ wheels are supposed to reflect upmarket European sophistication and the HHR a more casual retro-chic.
But what they both represent is datedness that won’t turn the corner to classic status for at least another decade.
It’s an interesting argument because I live somewhere everyone has aftermarket wheels some of the year – speaking of I need to put my winters on.
In my case, the winter wheels happen to be the OEM wheels from the previous model and I think they work pretty well, except the finish is starting to flake off.
Anyway, probably should add to this:
Lots of aftermarket rims I see look cheap, but that could be because they’re being bought for winter so they are cheap. People don’t splash out and go fancy on winter wheels. There’s a thin five spoke design that one of the dealers where I used to live kept in stock and they look cheesy as hell but they’re part of the “winter tires with any new car!” deal.
Everything looks tougher with black steelies.
Funny you mention winter tires and fancy wheels… when I went to look at (and aquire) my NC1 Miata, the post said it came with a set of winter tires. Of course I was expecting steelies, but when I inquired about the snows, the seller went over to a stack of tires in plastic bags and casually threw one on the garage floor. Opening the bag up I was shocked to see this set of barely used snows on silver 17″ MOMO alloys! I was a bit upset at 1) him tossing it down the way he did (didn’t damage anything but yeesh) and 2) the OEM wheels were 18s so I couldn’t swap the tires (the MOMOs looked better).
Just read the older posts, shame on me,
anyway yeah, there are situations where it really does matter, … I had a Toyota corolla that had a Ford rim on it in the rear (drum brakes) went to rotate the tires. Hard stop! As in the wheel hit the caliper! Oops! Not impressed with the tireshop that sold that crap instead of replacing the bent rim with the correct one.
Casually noting that the Autopian ran a article a few months back about Honda Odyssey running BMW wheels for very good reasons, and don’t see one word from Adrian back then.
Snarky observation aside, I don’ t have any problem with this– with one notable exception: Richard Hammond’s Riviera. The camera crew over on DriveTribe love sweeping side shots were you can clearly see the Pontiac wheels. At least get some Buick hubcaps, man!
I was probably busy, I don’t always have time to jump in on comments on other articles. But I was arguing with everyone in my head.
It’s YOUR car, and there’s no accounting for taste, even if it’s horribly bad!
However I was thinking about swapping other oem(vw) rims for my car when I realized that my center caps match the steering wheel detail! No way am I changing now!
The hhr needed something to make it stand out, and gm did own Saab! Not sure about the relevance in this situation ;o
Well after wading through the grainy photos and pondering for awhile I’ve concluded:
The wheels look OK. They’re a little too rectilinear for an HHR, but really, they’re good enough.
I’m a fan of the Saab soccer ball wheels, but they don’t fit much.
I assume this means the HHR is back on the road? I saw 1 of the bolts was removed, but had seen no further updates!
Saab Incas rock. Had them on my first 900 Turbo, way back when.
Some of the HHR’s contemporaries’ rims (Malibu, Cobalt SS, etc.) look quite good on 9-3s and 9-5s, and maybe better than the 17″ Saab 60th anniversary rims (MY 2007, for what it’s worth) that David scored. I’m also seeing some of the kidz putting Alfa Romeo Giulia rims on their Saabs these days (also 5×110 with close enough center bore).
Many of Saab’s rims were made by Ronal, and some by BBS.
I’m running Lincoln LS rims for winter tires on my Jaguar XJ8… and they look exactly the same as the same vintage Jaguar XJR rims, just two inches smaller in diameter (correct offset, same hub spacing, etc). Ford Fusion rims might be the next choice I’ll go with for winters.
Replying to my own post: In this case, the use of Saab rims on an HHR is perfectly acceptable, since at that time both cars were on market, Saab was 100% GM-owned, with plenty of parts interchangeability, plenty of common part numbers back then (and now). Shared GM platforms, Ecotec internals (the Saab 9-3 engine bits are the preferred ones with the Cobalt hot rodder crowd), brakes, electronics, transmissions, etc.
“You do not grace other marques with Saab wheels”
Why not? GM graced Subarus and Chevys with SAAB badges, why not wheels?
A mate of mine had 18in 300C wheels (the early split five-spoke from say 2005) on his Z32 300ZX. They really suited the car and looked so much better than the featureless stock wheels it came with.
As much as I respect Adrian’s trained eye, mixing and matching parts is the heart of hot-rodding.
This ‘OEM-only’ opinion is too close to that same anti-engine-swap crowd who go feral if you dare put an engine that’s not from the same manufacturer in you car.
Calling something heresy is just censorship by another name.
Equally ridiculous theory, but I’ll try it. Everything should roll on Momo Heritage or similar rally look wheels. I of course haven’t bought ’em for my car, it’s rolling on some factory looking wheels it came with. But every car should have some rally love. It is better to look a little adventurous and drive at the speed limit, be well mannered on the road, than drive stock but like a maniac.
Hmmm. I thought of examples from my own cars. The best was the actually-magnesium minilites on a series 2 super 7, equally the american racing daisies on my mustang- nothing ever satisfied more looking back over my shoulder after a drive. But the oem’s on my a6 avant are pretty satisfying too- if only there was a little more positive offset,… the feature that helps make borrani’s on a swb the best prettiest ever.
Are you free to buy whatever you want for your own ride? Sure, go nuts. Would you pay hard-earned $ for SOMEONE ELSE’S idea of a good-looking aftermarket wheel/car combination? 95% of the personalized rolling stock out there looks like crap.
Damn I’d love to get stuck in on this and argue with you all but I’m currently road tripping across South Carolina (don’t worry, I’m typing this from a rest stop) but I’ll try and check in later and answer some of your comments!
The design space OEMs work within is different than that of a dedicated wheel manufacturer in a dozen ways, price being the most obvious. In addition, an awful lot of people don’t want to see themselves coming and going in their cars, and make choices about them to reflect their own personalities. By definition these people want something different than OEM, no matter how much time OEM designers put into their work. The thing OEM designers CAN’T do is NOT be OEM designers. Yes, it’s absolutely fine for people to wear aftermarket wheels and not to stay OEM.
BTW, I bent 3 wheels on my Golf R. VW wanted $800 to replace them. Each. So, yeah, there are some pretty legit reasons to end up aftermarket.
Most OEM wheels are made by aftermarket suppliers to the OEMs design and specs. Ours came from Borbet.
Enkei makes most of Honda’s wheels so understandable.
Interesting. I’ve been looking for at aftermarket wheels to mount snow tires in my Fusion, and one Borbet design caught my eye as suspiciously similar to the factory rim.
I reckon I better get rid of the AMC steel wheels that have been on my 67 Mustang for the past 40 years. Bummer.
And I then should remove those Mustang trim rings from my AMC AMX and pay big money for the originals…
I am totally with Adrian – assuming of course that he agrees to the Cragar SS exception. I am sure that is some car that doesn’t look good with them but damn’d if I can think of one.
https://us-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.consumerguide.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F2%2F2012%2F07%2FCRAGARSS_01.jpg&sp=1667155017Tca08770852105d053a82b03a4cb49158ef9433718b6f4b9b9b76151fced44395
Well, this one’s simple. Everyone’s entitled to do what one wants to their shit. I’m amazed nearly a quarter of the people who bothered answering think otherwise. Some guy decides he’s sawzalling a Bugatti Atlantic to install a BMW E36 Baur soft top or some kind of similarly idiotic nonsense? It’s their stuff, we can’t do much but disapprove.
You people are over complicating everything. Steelies with plain dog dishes are the only solution to this argument.
I think it’s a more complex question determined by the cardinal rule of “does it look good”? I’d also add the caveat of esthetics versus fakers as in the worst automotive abomination I ever saw, a Mazda RX-7 turbo badly faking an Acura Integra.
There’s also the question of how broadly one defines OEM, as in the VW crowd using Porsche wheels. As an aside Ronal R8 turbine wheels as used on 80s Audis look really good on 80s VWs.