So, at this moment, our own Mark Tucker, the man who cranks out Shitbox Showdown for your car-deciding pleasure every day, is in Tahiti. He may be on vacation? Or buying a crapload of adrenochrome from his adrenochrome guy? I’m not really sure, I wasn’t paying attention. What I do know is a bit of information that actually matters, and that bit of information is that he is driving a Peugeot 208. This is important because of a picture he sent us of the 208’s instrument cluster.
It’s a pretty normal-looking cluster, with an analog speedometer and tachometer flanking some non-dot-matrix digital gauges in the middle. That’s not the interesting part.
The interesting part is the way the needles on those two analog gauges move. Here, look at the picture he sent us:
Just to clarify, this is how the needles would move on this instrument cluster:
See that? The needles are counter-rotating, as opposed to moving in the same direction, like on most instrument clusters, say, like this 1980 Honda Accord, which has a remarkably clear and straightforward cluster:
So, when Mark showed this to us in Slack, it sparked a lot more visceral and intense reactions than I would have expected. I sort of think the motion might be cool, or interesting to watch; David, conversely, felt it was a nightmare, an abhorrent betrayal of everything positive and good.
Let’s just simulate the motion really quickly here. Here’s conventional, same-direction gauges:
Vroom, vroom! The tach and speedo needles are in synch, doing a little dance of engine and ground speed. Now, let’s see some counter-rotating needles:
This one is actually different than the Peugeot, with both needles going from inside-out as opposed to outside-in. Crap, do I have to make that gif now, too? Ugh, fiiiine:
So, I think these counter-rotating ones are fun to watch, or at least I don’t find them as morally repugnant as David does. Now, I can see an advantage to needles that move in the same direction being perhaps easier to watch and process at speed? But, despite my crude animations, the tach and speedo are not going to always be in sync or at the same pace, so how much does that actually matter? For the tach, you just need to be clear when you’re nearing the redline, really, and there are very likely some obvious audio cues that go with that.
I mean, some people must think these gauges are cool; after all, Aston Martin used them extensively in the early 2000s:
I’m sort of at a loss here: are these cool? Or is the more expected, synchronized approach just right? That’s why I’m coming to you, Autopians, the only people on this moist, gooey planet who have opinions that actually matter. So let’s take a poll!
Okay! Tell us what you think! And then maybe argue about it in the comments, because that’s fun. Try some ad hominem attacks! They’re a great time!
Weird for the sake of weird is not good. Case in point? Motorized EV charge doors.
The most cool implementation of these has got to be the Lancia Delta Integrale.
I’ve owned 2 Peugeot 308s (a GTi and a 2.0 diesel) both of which had this setup. I loved them – especially in the GTi for some reason. In the 308 there were outer gauges as well (fuel and temperature I think) which went in the same direction as the main gauge on their side – so opposite to each other.
Are they better than ‘normal’? Not really, but then they’re no worse either.
Are the cool? Hell yes.
Do they make you think you’re some awesome rally driver harnessing the might of the Integrale? Sometimes:-)
Counterintuitive things in cars are unwelcome, but there are degrees of unwelcome.
The Aston and Peugeot examples are unnecessary, trying too hard and prioritizing an arbitrary aesthetic over practicality, but it’s tolerable, especially in an automatic. That main image with the speedo going counterclockwise is an abomination, though. Burn every car with one of those.
It’s cool. (Drops Mic)
Same with modern BMWs. Horrible. But Aston was worse.
That would offend my OCD to no end.
There is just no reason for this nonsense.
Came for this, left satisfied
The funny part, I am not even particularly OCD. But I have absolutely no time for things done differently just for the hell of it in the name of style or “being cool/edgy/different”.
If you’re going to reverse one of the major gauges, you have to reverse one of the minor ones, too.
And why not do the opposite of the major ones. Change the fuel gauge so that full is on the left and empty is on the right.
I actually think all of this is frippery, and find it mildly annoying. Clockface gauges should all rotate clockwise as they rise.
In the 308 the fuel & temperature gauges were outboard of the rev counter / speedo and they did operate in opposite directions to each other.
Bentley did something different with the gauges in its final generation of Mulsanne. Instead of resting the needles on the lower left part and starting from there, Bentley chose to exhibit the highest level of British eccentricity.
This has made me realize I probably don’t care. My truck has a full digital dash, and now that I think about it there are layouts where it does both. In Classic, both sweep the same direction. In Progressive (I think?) they both sweep up the outside edge of the screen, although they’re not needles in that display so maybe it doesn’t count?
I hadn’t even noticed the difference until now though, so I went with the “I don’t care” option.
It hits a pet peeve of annoyance I can’t quite get over. It’s a me thing.
My wife had a Hyundai Tiburon in the day that had them. I always thought they were cool. Now I DID have a Honda that had this same dashboard and it is kinda freaking me out.
I don’t have a real problem with counter-rotating instruments, with one major caveat: the speedo MUST rotate clockwise.
I believe that needles that rotate counterclockwise should be mandatory in cars south of the equator.
Disclaimer: I have an extreme amount of trouble reading an analog clock – it’s not immediately obvious to me what the hands are indicating. (And before you start complaining about kids these days and cursive and whatnot, I was born in 1982.) While I have no problem with traditional gauges, looking at the animations of the counterclockwise gauges is very confusing; I wouldn’t be able to tell what they’re indicating just with a quick glance, which would be a real problem with a speedometer.
Symmetry! Looks good, and you’ll get used to it. (Classic engineer thinking vs. design thinking)
I like symmetry.
Which is why I like that Mercedes-Benz sorted the speedo and tach in my W209 so that they are both pointing vertically at 80mph.
ooh nice – unfortunately now i’m going to have to check my cars for what speed the speedo and tach match. Probably disappointingly low
Speedometer going counterclockwise? No no no no no it just doesn’t make sense.
Agree, but the tach?? I could rewire my brain to get used to that going counterclockwise.
Counter-rotating instrument needles are perfectly fine; what’s problematic is when tachometers are calibrated 100x rather than 1000x so they have double digit numbers that are all too annoyingly similar to the ones on the speedometer. There should be some modicum of difference between the tachometer and the speedometer readily discernable at a glance if the gauges are similar in size and shape, especially if one is driving a car unfamiliar to them.
And it’s unnecessary sig figs. At that point just use the full number to look impressive.
Ugh, sig figs. Taught to me by a high school teacher who also taught a unit conversion system so convoluted (and objectively wrong) that 1 yard = 2.99 feet. Perhaps the designer of that gauge had the same teacher I did.
I owned an AM (three-pedal) with a counter-rotating tach, and I’ll say it was a total non-issue. I had other problems with the car, but you don’t even notice it.
Similarly, we rented a Peugeot 308 with a counter-rotating tach (and a manual), and there was absolutely no learning curve.
I don’t know why one would choose to design it that way, but from a user’s perspective it’s not a big deal.
I love weird, quirky stuff like this so I am all for it. I would prefer the tach be the one counter rotating though, not really sure why but I think the speedo doing it might bother me.
I think the Aston one is fine because the predominant motion of the needles is up and down, which is intuitive with speed or RPMs increasing or decreasing. The inner, I don’t know, two-fifths of the circle is unused. When the counter-rotation goes around almost the entire circle, that gets a little weird and potentially confusing.
My BIL had a 2010s Vantage that did this and it was always just a weird quirk of the car, not an affront to god. It’s cool, live and let live.
They are an abomination unto Nuggan!
My BMW’s digital cluster also does this. The way it’s designed it looks totally normal.
Link to eBay listing of one
Where’s my option for “I think they’re fun and I was napping” – I had to go to work early today, it’s 10 AM, and I’m already spent.
Here’s my attempt at a serious answer though.
As far as how well they do their job goes, they’re kind of lousy at it because humans are creatures of habit, and these are different from what we’re used to given what the vast majority of instrument clusters look like. Being consistent with muscle memory is particularly important here, given that instrument clusters are meant for quick glances, rather than focused attention.
However, from a theoretic point of view, I can see an ergonomic advantage of outside-in needle movement, wherein the needle either spends most of its time close to the center of the driver’s vision, or is in the center of the driver’s vision when it is most informative. For the speedo, this would be around a typical highway speed limit, and for the tach, this would be close to the redline.
I also like Peugeot having the tach be the one rotating contrary to expectations – I’d imagine most drivers shift by sound (or drive an automatic), so the tach has less utility and can just be, yanno, fun?
As for how they look, that’s a subjective point, but I like deviations from the norm, so I 100% find them cool. The whole 208 cockpit is my kind of quirky, if I’m being honest.
Your animation, using the accord gauges but reversed, having the red line at 0-1 rpms is whats causing my eye to twitch
My AW11 MR2 had a redline at both ends of the rev range. Something like 0-2000 and then 7500-8000.
I never read the manual to find out why, which I now regret.