Good morning! On today’s Shitbox Showdown, we have a pair of Pontiacs, both of which need some love. One of them has a V8, and it’s not the one you’d guess by looking at them. But GM’s Excitement Division will have to wait a minute; first we need to check back in with yesterday’s blocky Swedes:
Fewer doors, fewer dollars, waaaay more miles. But I agree; it’s the more intriguing car. And thank you to the commenters who filled me in on those wheels; I sure do like them, and I see why they’re so coveted among Volvo fans.
I may be alone in this, but I still miss Pontiac. The post-bankruptcy world of General Motors had no place for plastic body cladding and split grilles, it seems, and I say the automotive landscape is poorer for it. Unfortunately, the newest Pontiacs are a decade and a half old now, and time has not generally been kind to them. Both of these examples have had significant work done to them in the past, and both are in need of quite a bit more. They’re not exactly shining examples of the breed, but they do celebrate what I think is best about Pontiac, and often American cars in general: big dumb fun. Which one is more worthy of a new lease on life? Let’s look and see.
2001 Pontiac Firebird Convertible – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 3.8 liter overhead valve V6, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Henderson, NV
Odometer reading: 116,000 miles
Runs/drives? Starts with a jump, but needs an alternator to be drivable
I’ll admit it: I unironically, unapologetically love Pontiac Firebirds. Flashier, rarer, and somehow simultaneously both classier and trashier than its Chevy Camaro stablemate, the Firebird is one of those cars that’s probably far better as an object of aspiration than an object in your driveway, depreciating. But when it’s this cheap, and only mildly broken, why not have a little fun?
This base-model Firebird is short a couple of cylinders from the big bad Trans Am version, but if you have to have a V6, you could do a lot worse: it’s the legendary Buick-derived 3800 V6, putting 200 horsepower through an overdrive automatic to the rear wheels where it belongs. That’s more power than any Trans Am of the late 70s or early 80s. I’ve driven a Camaro with this drivetrain before; it’s not a fire-breather by any means, but it feels sufficiently antisocial. This one was replaced with a remanufactured engine last year; the car has only 116,000 miles on it, so I imagine there was a lot of antisocial driving involved, or a terrifying lack of maintenance. It starts and runs fine now, but only if you jump it; the alternator is shot, and that means the battery is probably toast now too.
The softer side of this Bird is in better shape. Yeah, it’s turn-of-the-millennium GM plastic and mouse fur, but at least it has held up. The convertible top hasn’t fared as well. It’s nasty-looking, so I haven’t included a photo of it, but check out the ad if you want to see. It looks like it has been down for years, and now has gunk and mildew in all the folds. It may or may not be watertight anymore, and it may or may not clean up. But there is an easy solution: just leave it down.
The paint and bodywork looks good, but white paint hides a lot of sins in photographs. It may not look this good in person. I can’t say I think much of the aftermarket wheels, and one tire has a slow leak. Just another of the list of little things that need attention on this car, but at least it’s cheap.
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP – $1,900
Engine/drivetrain: 5.3 liter overhead valve V8, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Odometer reading: 177,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yes, but has a nasty oil leak and multiple codes
“You know what would be fun?” asked no sane person ever. “Let’s take our front-wheel-drive family sedan, and jam a big-ass truck engine in it sideways.” Pontiac’s engineers could rarely be thought of as sane, of course, and so for a brief shining moment, the Grand Prix GXP existed. We’ve discussed this madness before, more than once, but never before has this monument to torque steer been priced low enough to reach the hallowed halls of Shitbox Showdown. And this one is here for a good reason: it has a rebuilt title.
The seller doesn’t go into details about how the title was tarnished, but they’ve owned the car for thirteen years, and know it inside and out. As such, they’re able to list everything that’s wrong with it, and it’s not nothing: the engine has a pretty serious oil leak, and it looks bad enough that they keep a sheet of cardboard under the car. Its check-engine light is also on, and the codes listed in the ad are for the oxygen sensor and the fuel pressure at the rail. There are also some electrical gremlins to take care of, but it’s a nearly twenty-year-old GM car; I’d be more surprised if there weren’t electrical gremlins.
Cosmetically, It’s all right, but not great, both inside and out. I mean, for a sub-$2000 car, you can’t ask for much, and you won’t be disappointed. On the plus side, it looks fairly rust-free for a Midwestern car, and from the sounds of it, it has been well-maintained.
But honestly, who cares about any of that? The seller calls this a “ridiculously fast car,” and I believe it. With 303 horsepower on tap in a car that typically has two-thirds of that, this car is built to get you in trouble. Consider it cheap thrills. Just stomp on the right-hand pedal and giggle until the transmission breaks.
All in all, now that I think about it, maybe Pontiac’s demise was for the best. Sure, we got some bonkers fun machines like these, but towards the end we also got a whole lot of boring rebadged Chevys. Remember the G5? Yeah, neither does anyone else. But at least we have the memories – and the shitboxes. Which one excites you?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
GXP. When the transmission goes (not if but when) yank the 5.3 and sell it to a Fiero enthusiast lusting after that LS4. Then scrap the rest. Or, find a Fiero to LS swap. Either way that engine will ultimately power a Fiero.
The transmission will certainly end up in a Fiero. Every LS swap I’ve seen ditches the 5.3 for the LS2 or LS3… and one lunatic who dropped in the LS7.
As someone with a long languishing Fiero project in need of an engine, I’d be plenty happy with the LS4.
I fully intended to go with the Grand Prix, as those are really comfortable cars. But bad oil leaks and multiple codes on a car that will be a nightmare to work on, plus its in the rust belt, which means I guarantee there are no rocker panels left under that body cladding. Screw it, gimme the automatic convertible. I’ll toss an alternator on a 3800 V6 and cruise.
Right wheel drive trumps power any day and the firebird is already setup for a V8. Firebird all day!
Firebird, please!
Some people love convertibles, some hate them; I think they’re okay under certain circumstances. As a young man I lived in Hawaii for a few years, and had an MGB for a while during that time. I could just put the top down and leave it down for weeks during the dry season. Basically the condition of the Pontiac’s top doesn’t matter to me: this is a car I would use for short, fun trips in nice weather – there and back again before the rain starts. Would I have it as my only car? Hell, no.
I am a little concerned that the seller couldn’t be arsed to replace the alternator: it’s genuinely one of the easiest things to do, with the battery being even easier than that.
The GXP OTOH… yeesh. if everything were in good order and the title were unbesmirched, then it would be a solid choice. But as it currently sits (and leaks) IMO it’s not worth the aggravation.
Update: the Firebird ad has been deleted by its author.
I went to look at the top, but the posting was taken down. Include the pic next time! In the end, went with the leaky 300-HP instead.
The Firebird is easily the logical choice: throw in a battery and alternator from Autozone, keep the top down and you’re good to go. The GXP by comparison is an absolute mess. But for $2k who cares about logic? Gimme the stupid V8 FWD car, and I’ll laugh myself silly leaving behind a trail of Walmart tire skid marks and leaking Valvoline, up until the torque steer puts me in a lamp post.
I’ll never pick a convertible, so I guess I’m stuck with the GXP.
Rebuilt title on a fwd GM car from the early 2000s? Yeah, no, firebird I guess? Does the firebird have a rebuilt title as well? Oh its the v6… yeah, neither is the only appropriate answer here.
I really want to like the GP. But that’s too many gremlins to track, and working on a V8 in that engine bay is gonna be a headache.
Plus, Firebirds are rad as hell.
Went with the Firebird…seems to need less to get it on the road, assuming the seller isn’t hiding anything.
I was sad to see Pontiac go too. I feel like they were in a slump for a while, but it seemed like they were starting to turn around and put out some decent looking cars…and then GM axed them, in their typical fashion.
It’s a choice between a shitbox w/ a LS versus a shitbox that should.
The v6 Firebird is the Outback Steakhouse of cars. It looks cool, then you get a giant blooming onion of disappointment. Could it burnout? I’m not sure. Also everyone including/but not limited to the deceased are going to comment about it being a v6. Just picture yourself laying in bed, sunburnt from a day of driving around in that Firebird. Then the ghostly spectator of your long dead great grandfather appears. He says “Sweet Firebird, shame it’s a v6 though.” Then disappears into the either
GXP is one strong pull from transmission death. And the 5.3 just barely fits in there, so hopefully you have a motivated young person who can sacrifice their knuckles. But you should experience an LS once before you die, and there’s no time like the present.
Tough Choice. I leased a 2004 Grand Prix base model without even test driving it, because they were leasing them so cheap. It wasn’t even on the lot yet and they didn’t have any left to test drive, but it was something like $200 a month with 0 down with my GM Employee Family discount. After trading in a car that was starting to have a lot of problems, I think I was paying under $40 a month for a 3 year lease. I figured, how bad could it be at that price. It wasn’t a great looking car, but it drove pretty well and had the 3800 V6 in it. I have no experience with the V8 GXP though. I went Firebird because it sounds like an easier fix, and convertibles are just more fun.
As someone who’s been around convertibles whose tops have gone bad before I never want to deal with those sights or smells again. Plus the GXP has a V8. While I’m one of the sickos who thinks non V8 pony cars are valid if you kit them out correctly (keep them as light as possible and check all the boxes for braking and suspension upgrades) and use them as backroad carvers/in autocross or adjacent type driving, in this case I must go V8.
This was also the era when FWD performance cars were utterly unhinged. Stuff like this and the Mazdaspeed 3 will torque steer you right into a ditch if you aren’t careful, and I don’t think this has an LSD so it’s going to feel like shit when you put the power down. It’s remarkable how far FWD fun cars have come in the 15-20 years since this era and I think stuff like this really left a negative impression on people, as a lot of folks still shun FWD fun cars to this day.
But me? Commentariat, I own a Kona N. I LOVE unhinged front wheel drive sloppiness. I enjoy torque steer. I enjoy fighting against cars that are actively trying to un alive me. I want to get out my car after an hour of at the limit driving and feel like I was just in a bar fight. So for my dumb ass it’s gotta be the GXP. Plus V8 go brrrrr.
I’ve read that a lot about the Mazdaspeed3, but I drove one and, even stomping on it from a stop at full lock, I had no issue pointing the wheel where I wanted it. Sure, it loaded up in effort and self centering was on me, but it didn’t scrabble back and forth all over the road and while I wouldn’t call myself weak, I’m not that big a guy, either. So, going by that vs the reviews of these GMs that I have’t driven, I have to assume more than some exaggeration. (A similar deal with my Focus ST, which I found to be not only a pussycat for torque steer unless on a really screwed up road and stomping it like a moron—a situation no car would like—as well as a ride that was completely fine 40-50k mi/yr on beaten up New England roads compared to the reviewers that made it out to be barely livable as a daily, though that was usually when being compared to the boring ass GTI and I think they were trying to think of something to say to make the GTI seem like a choice that wasn’t inferior in every way except for interior quality which, though nothing gave me problems in the ST, was certainly not its strong point. At all.) A modded pre-GM Saab 900 turbo, OTOH, that sucker was a handful.
I also rise in support of Pontiac generally, and Firebirds specifically. The 4th gens are probably my least favorite, but this one looks good (I don’t hate the wheels, actually), and it needs less work … so we’ll take the vert.
I ran across a GXP last time I was car hunting. I did a bit of research and said NOPE!! Horrific gas mileage (low teens in town), a transmission made of spun sugar, and IIRC the tires are different sizes, front to rear, the fronts being wider.
I did end up buying a Pontiac, but it was a G6 GT convertible. Still got it. It’s fine as a car, but they definitely weren’t building excitement when it was put together.
I voted Firebird, even though it would be a letdown compared to the ’97 Trans Am WS6 I had prior to my G6.
This is correct, but not sure why it’s an issue for you. Many cars have rear tires larger than the fronts, it’s usually an unremarkable fact.
The problem is you can’t properly rotate the tires. Front drivers already are harder on the front tires than rear drive, but if you are diligent about rotating them, you can make them live longer.
With this car, it’s going to eat front tires like candy, especially if you romp on the loud pedal, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
I guess I just see that as an unavoidable consequence of driving a performance car. Pretty much all the RWD V8 cars I’ve owned have been staggered fit and worn the rears out faster than the fronts.
That’s a valid point, but on a FWD car, having worn out front tires is far worse than worn out rear tires on a RWD car.
Firebird. I’m not a convertible person, but I’ve owned multiple 4th gen F-bodies (only V8s, though) and they are generally easy to fix and keep on the road.
The GXP is fascinating, but given how often a friend went through transmissions on his, fixing the engine problems is only the beginning for that car.
I wonder how many transmission rebuilds it takes to get a GXP to 177,000 miles.
I also wonder when the last one was done.
But Mark, you aren’t the only one who misses Pontiac. This is one of the very few showdowns where I actually like both options too much to decide.
Pontiac wasn’t quite in its deathbed when these two examples were built, but it had been prepped with clean sheets and fluffed up pillows. Can’t get excited about either of these, so I’ll just hold my nose and pick one (a car, not my nose). It’s the Firebird, today.
This was tough. As a former 3rd Gen owner, I love Firebirds and that would make a fun cruiser. But I went with the GXP because it would be more useful and I like fast(ish) sedans these days.
Fix the Firebird, clean the top and interior. Set out on a top-down road trip. Leave it wherever it dies and fly home.
This is a quandry actually. The Firebird with the 3800 is a nice starting point for a fun car. Though if the engine was already replaced, how hard a life did it have. The Grand Prix obviously had a hard life by the codes but everything is pretty simple as it’s an LS to fix…generally. But then you are stuck with a FWD V8. I think this time I’m gonna go against the (expected grain) with the Grand Prix, fix the engine, clean up the interior and have a sleeper.
I really wanted the GXP, but with all the problems, I chose the Firebird
I live in the shitiest neck of the wood for used cars. Almost impossible to find anything like this around here.
Bird for me 100%
Firebird! Enjoy the next couple of months with the top down, replace it over the winter, then be ready for next summer. Could always do a v8 swap, or to be different, the supercharged version of the 3800. And, of course, put a screaming chicken on the hood!
Garrett turbo for some GNX-inspired shenanigan’s. And a potentially twisted unibody.
The firebird has the potential to have a V8 jammed in there. Or it could be a wrencher for a first time car owner.