Welcome to day two of Dead Brands Week! Today we’re looking at two rear-wheel-drive sports cars, one from Pontiac and one from Scion, that came along shortly before their respective brands bit the dust. Better late than never, I suppose.
Yesterday it was Plymouth versus Mercury, in a battle of largely superfluous brands. I expected the Plymouth Fury to win, but frankly, I expected a wider margin of victory. That Cougar is the nicest one I’ve seen in a while, but saying “this is the best 1988 Mercury Cougar” is kind of like saying “this is the best Coldplay album.” It might be true, but like maybe three people care. (I kid, DT, I kid.)
Yeah, I vote for the Gran Fury, in case it wasn’t obvious. It reminds me of the ex-government-fleet Plymouths that my grandpa used to pick up cheap at auctions, though he preferred the smaller B-body Fury. That style of Cougar just reminds me of our asshole neighbor when I was growing up, who had one. The Plymouth does have kind of a gritty ’70s private-eye feel to it, as a couple of you pointed out, but to me that’s not a bad thing.
The shift to front-wheel-drive over the course of the 1980s was largely a good thing; it gave cars better packaging, so they could be both bigger inside and smaller outside, and it improved foul-weather driving by quite a bit. But while everyone seemed fine with family cars and economy cars moving to FWD, it didn’t take enthusiasts long to figure out that they lost all the little RWD sports cars in the process. Sure, there were some bright spots, like the Honda CRX and the Volkswagen GTI, that made FWD fun, but a whole generation of enthusiasts – mine – grew up lamenting the lack of that finely-balanced, front-engine, rear-drive sports car feel. It’s part of the reason the Mazda Miata was such a breath of fresh air; it came along when even Lotus was making FWD cars.
Once the Miata proved that we still wanted cars like it, other new RWD sports cars followed in later years, like the two we have here, but neither was enough to save its brand from the chopping block. No matter. The nameplates are gone, but the cars are still here – and still pretty cool. Let’s check them out.
2006 Pontiac Solstice – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Gladstone, OR
Odometer reading: 48,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
Sometimes, when a brand gets killed off, it makes sense. Poor sales, redundancy in the lineup, that sort of thing. But other times, they’re just victims of bad management. GM’s bankruptcy in 2009 caused a restructuring of the whole company, shedding a lot of divisions in the process, one of which was Pontiac. It was a shame, because Pontiac was GM’s enthusiast division more than any other, and always full of surprises: the original GTO, the mid-engine Fiero, the AWD 6000 STE sedan, various Trans Ams over the years, and this delightful little roadster.
The Solstice stuck to the basic roadster formula established by any number of British and Italian sports cars: two seats, a longitudinally-mounted engine just behind the front axle, and a manual transmission driving the rear wheels. The engine in question is GM’s Ecotec twin-cam four, displacing 2.4 liters. It’s got just enough power to make things interesting, but not enough to satisfy the critics. The turbocharged GXP version had a lot more power, but honestly, if you can’t have fun with 177 horses in a car this size, you’re not trying. This car has only 48,000 miles on it; apparently somebody only drove it in fair weather.
It’s in good condition inside, as you would expect for so few miles, with nice leather seats. I’m not sure seats this dark in a convertible are the best idea; you’d be wise to park in the shade on sunny days. I mean, yeah, it has air conditioning, but tell that to the backs of your thighs. I have yet to drive a Solstice (or its sister model, the Saturn Sky), but I’ve sat in one, and I really liked the snug, driver-oriented cockpit feel of it. It feels very Miata-like, which I’m sure is not a coincidence.
Outside, it has a few modifications, and whether or not they’re improvements is a matter of personal opinion. The stripes I could do without; I don’t think this style needs them. But I kind of like the 18″ aftermarket wheels. I’m not typically a fan of oversize wheels, but these give it a Hot Wheels vibe, and even better, they’re shod with new tires. I don’t know these cars well enough to know it the convertible top is supposed to be that wrinkly around the rear window, but it doesn’t look quite right.
2013 Scion FR-S – $9,800
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter dual overhead cam flat 4, six-speed manual, RWD
Location: Portland, OR
Odometer reading: 122,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
Sports cars are a low-volume business, so if you’re going to spend the money to develop one, you had better save wherever you can if you want the car to be affordable. It makes sense, then, that Toyota and Subaru joined forces to produce this car, so they could each sell a version of it. It’s known by many names throughout the world: Subaru BRZ, Toyota GT86, Toyota FT86, but here in America, for a few years, it was sold under Toyota’s kiddie-oriented economy brand Scion as the FR-S.
The engineering contains bits and pieces from both manufacturers: its engine is Subaru’s boxer design, which keeps the center of gravity and the hoodline both low, but the six-speed gearbox is a Toyota design. This car has also been criticized as not having enough power, but I think anyone complaining about that needs to go drive an Austin-Healey Sprite to get some perspective. This thing has as much power as four Sprites, and weighs about as much as one and a half. It’s fine. This one runs and drives well, but it’s for sale by a dealership, so its past is something of a mystery.
My biggest complaint about Scion’s cars is that the interiors seem gaudy and trying too hard. The FR-S appears to be no exception. I get that it’s leaning into the “tuner” thing, but it comes across as cheesy to me. At least it’s in good condition, except for that weird stain on the driver’s seat.
It’s hard to tell the exterior condition, because the seller photographed it in the rain. One of the perils of selling cars in the Pacific Northwest, I guess. It looks all right, and I wouldn’t expect a car this age to have any rust yet, but the rain does a good job of hiding any paint flaws. Also, I think it has been lowered a little, and I’m reasonably sure the rear spoiler isn’t stock, if any of that matters to you.
I’m really glad that small rear-wheel-drive sports cars like these had a renaissance before everything goes electric. And I’m even happier that so many of them have manual transmissions. And while Pontiac and Scion may be gone, you can still get a new Subaru BRZ or Toyota GR86, – or Miata, of course – with a manual. In a sea of crossovers and massive pickup trucks, its good to know we still have some fun options, and unlike the bad old days of British and Italian roadsters, these are actually reliable, so they make sense as used cars. Which one is more your speed?
Frankly, as a 50-something, I think that I’d look a bit like “hello fellow students” in the Scion, so it’s gotta be the Solstice as a default.
As a 50 year old in the Solsice, there is a risk you’ll look like “hello, fellow future Vette owners. Does this car match my jorts and New Balances?”
“It smells like Werther’s Original in here. And Old Milwaukee. And Folgers. –Are those New Balance?”
The Solstice is made cheaply and has a shitty interior, but that boxer engine in the FRS is impossible to work on 🙁
Too bad there is no sunroof or targa option on any Toyota or Subaru variant of it.
But I voted for the Solstice since it will cost less to keep running.
I always thought GM did a decent job with the Solstice/Sky and then, of course, killed it along with the makes. As far as not getting the GXP, I enjoy flogging modestly powered vehicles with a stick.
The miles on the Solstice are right in the sweet spot for a weekend toy. The seats are not beyond rehab and wheels are easy to replace. The stripes worry me a bit if one were to remove them… if they’ve been on there a while you might still have stripes, just slightly darker red over red. Solstices also have ZERO cargo space with the top down, a terrible soft-top design and an interior reminiscent of driving around inside a 2-liter Pepsi bottle.
That being said, the Scion has been dubiously modified by a previous owner and is being sold by a super-sketchy BHPH dealer. Nothing about this car’s presentation gives me confidence and the mileage is at or past the point where all the obvious neglect is going to start to come back on the new owner.
Going with the Solstice. At the end of the day, it’s a fun red roadster that would make me smile every time I went for a drive.
“That being said, the Scion has been dubiously modified by a previous owner and is being sold by a super-sketchy BHPH dealer. Nothing about this car’s presentation gives me confidence and the mileage is at or past the point where all the obvious neglect is going to start to come back on the new owner.”
This reminds me of the lowered, modified, newer Subaru BRZ I saw last month at a stop light with a serious rod knocking sound. It looked like it had just happened as the driver was in rush to get back home; he didn’t wait for the green light to take off
Went Scion today, but both are overpriced IMO…
Underpowered, rear drive, manual transmission cars are something I like. Unfortunately, I can’t fit in either of these damn things (tried and failed both).
In a world where I was shorter, thinner, and didn’t have four herniated discs in my lower back, I would go with the Solstice. I have always liked the styling of this vehicle. It looks good from any angle. I also really like the wheels, the color, and the racing stripes. I also really like convertibles. I don’t like the grey strip around the windshield and the interior is meh, but the price, condition, and color palette more than make up for that.
May I wish the curse of “I wish I got a GXP” on everyone who voted Solstice.
I’ll go with the Solstice, one of three genuinely good and compelling vehicles Pontiac improbably had right before it went to the gallows. A couple of them may have been badge engineered from other companies, but the G8 and Vibe were legitimately good vehicles.
I remember being at the auto show years ago and being able to look at a sky and a solstice right next to each other and my buddy and I were comparing which one we liked better given that they were the same car ones just more rounded the other more angular it’s a shame that more companies do not sell cars like this anymore.
I also remember being too tall for these and other convertables at only 6ft. The top of my head was over the top of the windshield.
Gotta have back seats. That my kids would be uncomfortable in them is their problem.
As an owner of a BRZ I can tell you that neither of these cars has backseats. One does have a decently sized back shelf with seatbelts though.
This.
I’m 6′ 3″ and the driver’s seat pressed against the rear seat when I drove my BRZ. The “back shelf with seatbelts” is exactly correct.
Quick trip to the body shop to remove that awful stripe, new top, and buff the paint. Next stop is to drop a set of valved shocks/struts, then new wheels and tires. Last stop is auto interior shop for a quick leather seat rehab.
Solstice for another 20k miles, a few oil changes, lots of cars and coffee, and some great memories.
Final stop will be BAT and the entire fun experience will be a few k$ out of pocket.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Solstice it is.
Pontiac wins again in this province of Autopia. Don’t love the stripes, but I’m OK with the wheels, and I’ve always respected the full-send Lutz era of GM.
No idea if I’d fit in the Solstice but I’ve always liked them. I’d rather have the GXP but this one is fine and the N.A. Ecotech is punchy and fairly reliable if I remember correctly. The stripes and wheels would need to go though.
I know I fit into the driver’s seat of the Toyobaru. So that’s an easy one.
Going with the granddaughter of Wide-Track today. The Solstice may be a Parts Bin Princess, but that’s practically an American performance car tradition and it’s hard to hate the result.
I like the Solstice, and it’s definitely the better buy here, but I don’t fit in them. I’d love to have one of the Toyoburu twins, on a taller rally suspension, so it’s an easy choice for me.
If that Scion was actually a Toyota, I might consider it. To be honest, there’s no reason they couldn’t have done the car without all the Subaru nonsense. A Camry 4-cylinder would be a huge improvement.
The Solstice looks a whole lot more repairable and easier to wrench on. I’d prefer the Sky, which looks better, but for this showdown it’s Solstice all the way.
I’d also probably prefer a Miata.
That 2.4 engine was awful—heavy, mediocre power, infamous oil consumption, and no character. The worst engine of any car I’ve had.
$10k for an FR-S with 122k miles seems awfully steep, but it’s at a dealer so I’ll assume we can talk him down a bit and that’ll be my choice. I owned a Saturn Sky for a while and I had quite enough of the bargain basement GM interior and zero cargo space. It’s arguably the better bargain, though, for sure. I like the stripes and I hate the wheels, but either of those can be changed easily.
I find it interesting that the FR-S interior gets criticized while the Solstice goes unscathed. Beyond the crappy build quality, that cockpit design has aged very poorly. It didn’t look very good then and it looks even worse now. Miles of bland flat black plastic as far as the eye can see. Yuck.
I’m just here to say that you can find a plenty of decent FRSes for this money.
A lot will have modifications, and some might fit your taste. A completely stock one or one with just under 100k miles can be found for under $12k still. This one is probably cleaner underneath than mine was, being from Portland rather than NY, so I’m calling it a decent price.
Pontiac for sure. Cheaper, great miles, a lot more unique, and if I wanted a Toyburu twin I would rather buy new.
If you think that Scion has a gaudy interior you’d hate my GT86 with its bright red alcantara seats. I’m not a fan of the aftermarket ducktail, and those wheels aren’t my taste either (although they are better than the OEM ones).
Easy choice for me though as I hate convertibles and actually own the other option.
I just had a closer look at the pictures. Urgh.
It’s lowered a lot, has that horrible splitter, blacked out fender badges and an offset front number plate. And tinted windows. I hate tinted windows.
This all screams “wrong kind of previous owner” to me.
Plus 2013 is still in the “botched valve spring recall” phase. If I buy another 86 it’ll be 2014 or later. I did not enjoy my recall experience, or the subsequent catastrophic failure of my RH cam cover.
Same, I prefer the toyobaru platform but voted Pontiac today. Underhood looks surprisingly stock but the suspension and aerobits don’t.
Maybe he sold the turbo kit separately before trading it in? It looks suspiciously clean in the engine bay, mine looks like crap and it’s got half the miles in it.
Yeah if they did any modding they kept all the parts and put it back stock. It even still has that stupid tube from the intake to the passenger footwell still in there and the stock airbox. Either way I’m going to assume this car was driven hard based on the aero and lowering.
I keep toying with disconnecting the noise tube, but I can never be bothered. It’s a pretty noisy car anyway, and it’s nice to drown it out with some engine sounds.
I left it in, my goal was to keep the car as stock as possible to keep the resale value up until I found another car wanted to buy. Here I am 5+ years later still sitting in a stock car because I haven’t found anything else I’d rather be driving.
I think I’m at 7 years with mine. I even tried the GR86 and preferred the one I’ve got.
The Solstice is one of those rare cars that I, as a fun-sized human, found uncomfortably tight.
It’s a masterful bit of parts-bin raiding, and kinda fun to drive.
But.
A: I don’t really like convertibles
B: The Solstice has more rough edges than I like, and its charm doesn’t overcome them.
C: That one has been uglified.
The FR-S, on the other hand, is less kit-car and more fully-realized automobile. It’s more liveable. The Scion-ness is a demerit, but a lot of that is simply opportunity for personalization.
Definitely going with the FR-S.
Cheaper, lower miles, AND a convertible?!?
Solstice all day! But those stripes have GOT to go.
Global Auto Motors says it all.
Solstice for me .
The Solstice is a more interesting car, with fewer miles and for less money. The wheels and stripes are bad – the wheels particularly so.
Still, I’m spending Internet Funbux on the runty little convertible with the size 18 shoes.