Good morning, Autopians, and happy Thanksgiving! Before you eat yourselves into a food coma, I thought you might like to ease your way into the day by checking out a couple of old cars with me. Today we have one car I know very well, because there’s one in my garage, and one that I wish I knew better, because I’ve always admired them.
First, though, let’s get the final tally from yesterday’s Toyotas. From the sounds of it, most of you agreed with me that there wasn’t really a bad choice here. The Geo took the most votes, but I don’t think many of those were against that Tercel, really. I mean, just look at it; how can you not love a cute little car like that? It’d be like voting against a puppy.
The Prizm is probably the better bet, unless you’re just looking for a toy, though. It’s still just “old” and not yet “classic,” and parts are easier to get. But as for me, given these two choices, I gotta go with the Tercel, for the simple reason that I’ve already had a Corolla the same age as that Geo, so why not try something new?
Now then: I’ve got a lot to be thankful for, really: a beautiful, clever, kind wife who puts up with my terminal grouchiness and my weird little hobbies; a decent day job that pays the bills; a sweet side-hustle working for a really kick-ass website; a lot of cool toys; and some great friends, most of whom I don’t get to see often enough, but that’s all right. And I’m also thankful for my dad’s weird taste in cars, which rubbed off on me and has led me down some unlikely automotive paths in the past. MG and Fiat are like old friends to me because of that. I have one, but I’ve never had a chance to own the other. Not yet, anyway. Let’s see which path you’re willing to take with me.
1969 MGB GT – $5,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1.8 liter overhead valve inline 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Kingston, WA
Odometer reading: 120,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Confession time: I don’t actually like MGB roadsters all that much. If I were going to get a little British roadster, I’d much rather have an MGA or a Triumph TR6. But raise the windshield top, add that lovely Pininfarina-designed roofline, subtly tweak the shape of the front fenders, and something magical happens. One hundred and twenty-five thousand two hundred and eighty-two MGB GTs were built – less than a quarter of the total MGB prodction – and I wanted one ever since I was eight years old. Now I have one, and you can, too.
Under the long bonnet is BMC’s B-series four, a long-stroke powerplant that was never really meant for sports car duty. In the MGB, it displaces 1,798 cubic centimeters and is fed by a pair of SU carburetors. It puts out 95 horsepower to a simple solid axle on leaf springs through a four-speed manual gearbox. Some of these were fitted with an electric overdrive unit that operates in third and fourth gears; I have no idea whether this car has one or not.
This one runs and drives fine, the seller says, but “needs some tuning.” That’s easy enough; SU carbs are a lot more user-friendly than people give them credit for. The mechanical side of these cars is easy, and so, frankly, is the electrical side. The trouble here is that old automotive nemesis: rust. It has attacked this car’s rocker panels and floors, according to the seller, and there’s some sheetmetal replacement to be done. I wouldn’t worry about structural damage; MGBs are stout structures, especially the GTs. And patch panels are readily available.
One thing I would caution about on this car is the wire wheels. They look great, but they’re a pain in the ass to deal with. They require tubes for the tires, for one thing, as well as occasional truing and spoke-tightening. You can’t just have Les Schwab slap some new tires on this one, like I did with my nice simple Rostyle steel wheels; you’ll have to find someone who knows how to deal with the wire wheels, And such specialists are getting rarer all the time.
1980 Fiat 131 Brava – $4,995
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Bremerton, WA
Odometer reading: 54,000 miles
Runs/drives? Indeed
Here we have a car barely known in the US, but famous in Europe and elsewhere. The Fiat 131 was the successor to the famous 124 sedan, which of course lived on in license-built form as the Lada 2101 and its successors. The 131 was sold in the US as the Brava, Fiat’s top-of-the-line model, above the front-wheel-drive 128 and later Strada (Ritmo in Europe). It’s powered by the two-liter twincam “Lampredi” four, and sadly, in this case, a three-speed automatic. But this car has enough of a following that finding the parts for a manual swap shouldn’t be too hard.
Or I suppose you could leave well enough alone and just drive it as-is. It does run and drive well, according to the seller. This is not known as a reliable car; Bravas were routinely panned for mechanical failures and build quality problems. But if you want reliable, buy that Tercel from yesterday. This is a bona-fide Italian legend, a car with rally racing pedigree. It is capable of amazing things. It just breaks a lot in the hands of American owners, apparently.
Sadly, rust has begun to have its way with this one as well, mainly in the rear wheel arches and the back edge of the trunk lid. There is absolutely nothing anyone could have done about this at any point in this car’s history; Fiats of this era just rust. In saltier parts of the country, these poor cars didn’t make it past the Reagan administration.
I would still love to own an Italian car someday, and a Fiat Brava would be a fine choice. Of course, a two-door with a manual would be more fun, but this would be acceptable as well. It’s not worth fixing the rust on this one; just keep it as clean as you can for as long as you can, and enjoy it.
That’s all I’ve got for you; go forth, and enjoy your feast and football. Tomorrow, I’ve got something special in store, but you’ll have to check back in to find out what it is. Don’t forget to vote for your favorite, and have a happy Thanksgiving!
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
The MGB for sure. FIAT parts are, by and large, unobtainium while you can literally build a totally new MGB (or Mini) from the British parts specialists.
MG for sure. I had a ’66 MGB GT in high school and have fond memories. All of the oddities added to it’s charm. Power nothing, wire knock off wheels, TWO 6 volt batteries and positive ground all made it a special little package. In a heartbeat…
My best friend’s dad had one of those Fiat’s for a while when we were in middle school, and I loved how it looked. I still picked the MGB, because I love how those look a lot more.
Former MGB and TR6 owner here. Both were fun, but the 6 has my heart. A perfect world would include a TR5 (aka TR250 here in the states) in my garage. Alas, not yet.
Get a TR6 Mark, you won’t regret it!
Happy Thanksgiving! I’ll take the MGB GT since I like the sleek design more…also, on the Brava the shot of the side/back reminds me of my ol’ 84′ Jetta 5spd (when I had it)- that was a fun car to drive & bought it just to learn stick
Fiat all day everyday provided I can manual swap it. Or rather pay someone to swap it for me.
The Fiat was a pile at birth and only got worse.
The MGB was awesome at birth and only got cooler.
The easiest choice in this column’s history.
Fiat in a heartbeat! The last cars and coffee I went to before having my kid, I found a Brava and had a grand old time being waaay too excited about it with the owner. I was a week away from popping, thus the size of a small walrus, and the owner kindly let me sit in the wonderful blue velour drivers seat. Absolutely fantastic! I would gladly welcome this little Brava into my herd
Including tusks?
Yes????
Thanks Mark for giving us something to ponder on Thanksgiving. I chose MG but came to say I loved the 124s but when the 131 appeared in the mid-70s I was taken with its clean lines. The Italian ones had modest bumpers and a prettier grille than today’s example, and touted the design with a little “Mirafiori” medal on the flank. In the moment it looked so cool.
Very easy decision.
1) MG is a manual, Fiat an automatic
2) Both will require initial and ongoing work, but with one you’ll be keeping an MG going and the other, a Fiat.
3) Yes, the wire wheels require some extra work, but they’re really cool.
4) My dad bought a ’67 MGB in ’68 and I pretty much grew up with it (although he never let me drive it). Nostalgia, obviously. Also, Dad’s had the wire wheels and he never complained about them.
Happy T-day to all you car nuts. Hope the food is good and no one at the table tries to talk politics!
I wonder how hard it would be to find a BMC C series I6 to make this “B” into a “C”. Or maybe swap in an I6 of similar weight to that heavy I4.
It’s a lot of work. The hood is different, and I think the radiator support is as well. The C is a huge, heavy engine and not much more powerful than the B.
The hot setup for these is a 60-degree GM V6 with a five-speed, typically a 3.1 or 3.4 liter from a Camaro/Firebird. There are bolt-in conversion kits to do it. Fits right in, doesn’t weigh any more than the B-series, and just about doubles the power with a little massaging.
That’ll work as long as it’s smooth. I do enjoy a smooth engine.
The 3400 at least will pull quite nicely. They sound okay at high RPM but at least with the factory exhaust at low RPM they’re decidedly bellowing to my ears.
Rover/Buick V8 is where it’s at for these, like they did from the factory (but never exported to the US, good old BL).
Or the Leyland P76 V8, which was a 4.4 litre evolution of the Rover V8. And I have an old drawthrough carby turbo kit for one sitting in the shed………
I like the way you think. A stock Rover V8 in this is good for 0-60 mph in approximately 6 seconds. Much faster is possible with tuning.
There are FWD 3400’s galore at the junkyard by me. The five speed stick would be a bit more difficult.
MGC, like many BMC projects, was a half-engineered parts bin special. They lost the lovely balance that made the MGB a legend. It’s not substantially faster and less reliable because of cooling issues. And the bulgy bonnet is ugly. Definitely not worth the effort.
Evidently the wonderful BOP 215/Rover 3.5l will also fit, although that 60° V6 would leave more room to work with.
Wow, I drove a 131 2door for a couple weeks back in the late 80s, until the timing belt let loose. I realized that I was unable to repair it and to have done so on what was already a rusty deathtrap would have been a colossal waste….. Great memories though!
I’m torn on the vote, nostalgia vs something I have wanted since I was a small boy.
MGB GT for sure.
I own a Triumph GT6. My father once owned an MGB GT. Lovely cars. I’d swap out those wire wheels though for some 14″ steelies. Modern low-rolling resistance specific radials would greatly improve its cornering capability beyond stock as well, nevermind performance-oriented tires.
The trouble is that you have to swap the rear axle and the front spindles to switch to bolt-on wheels. The usual way is to find some fool–I mean, other owner–who wants the wire wheels, get both cars together, and just swap everything over wholesale.
Or you can get a set of reproduction Dunlop cast-alloy wheels made for the knockoff hubs, like twincam MGAs had, but they aren’t cheap, and I think they’re 15″.
What a cute pair of peninsular puppies! MGB for me dad.
I will too take the MGB, but that price is too high for a rusty one
Even with the autotragic transmission I’ll take the Fiat before ever owning another MG.
Huh. I guess it never occurred to me that wire wheels require occasional truing (and tubes). MGB GT still gets my vote.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the fake wire wheel covers on the seventies big American land yacht bordellos also need regular truing. LOL
Everything in those cars needed occasional truing.
One of the many things for which I am thankful today: a new Showdown!
I used to love the BGT — and then I became tall. The 131 is a handsome box, though, so we’ll take the Fiat and drive it to the local dealer just to watch the service adviser’s head explode.
The car will explode before the service advisers see it.
BGT any day – they come from a land that knows rust very well and you can build a complete new one from a catalogue.
The pre-emissions MG with the manual is the easy choice.
The Fiat is an easy no-go with that slushbox. Back then, the American car companies made the best and most durable slushboxes. If you wanted a European car or any small car from that period, you’re better off getting one with a manual transmission. the only exception might be large-engined euro vehicles like V8 Mercedes-Benzes, V12 Jags, etc.
Good news, if you like automatic transmissions: The auto box in the 131/Brava was a GM supplied unit. I believe that it was called the THM180.
That’s the Chevette automatic. Yeah, that is the one part of Chevettes that never broke…
I love boxy sedans. I love the shape of that roadster as well. Hard choice. Maintenance would likely be much less frustrating on the MGB once things were caught up and good to go so I would choose the MGB. A knowledgeable motorcycle mechanic could balance and true those wheels though. I know because all my bikes have always had wire wheels.
Boxy car is going to win every time for me!
I’ll take the fiery red My God it’s British GT for its pedigree and festive holiday paint.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
Thanks Mark!
Takes a bit of effort to work on Turkey day.
Appreciate the distraction.
I don’t know how to weld – but I’d still go for the MG and put some Minilites or steelies on it.
Because the Fiat will need welding too.