Yesterday was a weird day — one that involved me feeling quite a bit of guilt. You see, a gentleman who had seen my 1954 Willys CJ-3B for sale on Facebook Marketplace had told me he was quite interested; I told him the Jeep wasn’t finished, but once it was, I’d let him know. He gave me his number, and for months we stayed in touch so I could relay my progress. Yesterday, after agreeing to a price, this gentleman drove five hours (one way) to buy the Jeep, only to decide against it. It was a strange situation, and a great learning opportunity for both him and me.
To be clear: It’s totally OK if someone decides they don’t want to buy my car. I don’t hold that against this gentleman, but this was a situation quite different than my previous vehicle sales, so I wanted to share it. Plus we need more posts since yesterday was such a bad traffic day, so here it is.
This gentleman had seen my 1954 Willys CJ-3B for sale on Facebook Marketplace for $15,000, and was apparently keen to make it his. “I’m really interested and looking for cj3b from long time. I will [keep] this for all my life,” he told me, saying his father in India used to own the very same Jeep, down to the color and model-year. It was at around this time that I was starting to prepare for my wedding, and decided to keep the CJ-3B as my wedding vehicle. “If I sell it, I will call you. But I suggest you keep an eye out for others in case. I will keep an eye out as well,” I offered.
In the end, I ultimately decided to make the Jeep Wrangler YJ my wedding vehicle, and to part ways with the CJ-3B. This was for a few reasons: First, the CJ-3B was taking a while to get ready, and I had bigger fish to fry than to wrench on a Willys when I had so much other wedding planning to do. Second, when I found bondo on my CJ, I knew I wouldn’t be able to avoid eventually replacing the entire body tub to make it a fully metal Jeep free from putty. I just don’t have time to go down that kind of rabbit hole.
So I reached back out to the gentleman who had been so keen to buy my CJ-3B and told him I was willing to part ways with the Jeep, but that it’d take me a little while to get it up to snuff. And so, after my wedding, I got to work, replacing the Jeep’s fuel tank, fuel pump, brake lines, brake master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and rebuilding the carburetor and replacing the shocks and a bunch of other bits.
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I was sure to let the prospective buyer know that I had discovered Bondo, and I generally wanted him to have a good idea of what condition the Jeep was in. So I made him this video:
Between that video and the photos of the Jeep in my listing (below), I figured the prospective buyer had a good understanding of what shape the Jeep was in, and of course I’d be happy to send more pics:
It took me a few months, but ultimately I got the Willys Jeep — which I bought last summer from a gentleman in San Gabriel, California who had told me the Jeep had been sitting a while — driving and stopping like a dream. Check it out:
Cruising in that Jeep was a true joy; that T90 three-speed just snicked up, to the right, and then up into second, then straight down into third with two satisfying SNICKS. The F-head motor sang a similar tune to its L-head “Go-Devil” older brother that I’d gotten used to in my 1948 Willys CJ-2A nicknamed “Project Slow Devil,” and the ride was charmingly bouncy. The entire world seemed to be looking as I drove down Roscoe Blvd in Van Nuys, California; there’s just something friendly about that Jeep’s styling that disarms the general public invites it to wave and yell “cool Jeep!”
I was reminded how much I miss Project Slow Devil:
Anyway, after showing this prospective buyer that the Jeep was running and driving like a dream and I was done wrenching on it, he asked me how much I’d sell it for. I reminded him that he’d replied to my $15,000 asking price on Facebook Marketplace; he replied with a $10,000 offer, saying he’s citing the bondo as the primary driver of the offer. I suggested $12, and in the end we wound up at $11,400 for a nicely running, driving, stopping Willys with a frame, engine, and transmission that had clearly been gone through in an older restoration, and some bondo on the rear quarters and other parts of the tub. It was a thoroughly OK CJ-3B. Not minty, not bad, but decent.
Truth is, I wasn’t even sure what the CJ-3B is worth; someone I’d nearly bought a CJ-5 from a few weeks back had seen the listing for my CJ-3B, and he told me it was a $15,000 Jeep. Between that and a bunch of online listings, I figured I’d start there, because why not?
Discovering the Bondo made it clear that 15 was too much, so when we agreed to $11,400, that seemed about right. Who knows how many of the above Willy CJ-3Bs (none of which are on the west coast, it’s worth mentioning) have some Bondo on their bodies, too.
Anyway, I really don’t know what the Jeep is worth, and I’m not really too worried about making X dollars, I just want to feel like I’m getting a fair deal in the sale. $11,400 is $4,100 less than the CJ-3B below that sold on Bring a Trailer. It’s nicer than mine, but it’s not an original creampuff (unless this vehicle is an M606 — and I don’t think this is — then this civilian Jeep’s body has been “militarized” with a shovel and headlight protection and extra footman loops); it’s unclear if the body has any filler:
I’m not one to point to Bring a Trailer and say “look, this one sold for that, so that’s what my car is worth!” but we agreed to $11,400, and looking at comps, it didn’t seem far off. But then the buyer showed up.
He’d rented a trailer and driven five hours south from the Bay Area to meet me in Van Nuys. We walked over to the Jeep and did a cold start so I could demonstrate the alacrity with which the Jeep fired up. The prospective buyer sat in the Jeep, drove it just a few feet in the parking lot, and then chatted with his friend for a while before telling me the Jeep is not as nice as it looked in pictures.
For five minutes, this prospective buyer lingered and didn’t know what to say. It seemed to me like he no longer wanted the Jeep; he told me he’d offer $9000.
I wasn’t upset by this, and honestly he might be right! Car-selling is a complex business, and it’s best not to take things personally. But I’d sent him videos and pictures of the Jeep, and he’d had ample opportunity to get more information on the vehicle prior to making the five-hour trek. We’d agreed to an $11,400 price, and to drive down and then try to negotiate another $2,400 off the price… it was just a little weird.
The vibes felt a little off. That’s not to say I need to get more than $9000 for this Jeep (at that price, I’d just about break even on what I paid for the Jeep and repair parts). Maybe that’s what it’s worth! Maybe that’s a good offer! I really don’t know. I agreed to take $11,000, and told the prospective buyer that I was trying to find comps to better understand if $9000 was a reasonable ask. I’d taken a bit off guard by the second round of negotiations, so I was looking into other decent, stock CJ-3Bs that had sold in the area.
I asked the duo if they could find a Jeep in this condition in this area for less than $11,000. “No, these are just so rare,” the friend told me. The prospective buyer told me he’d been looking for years for a decent, stock CJ-3B in California. This confused me a bit. “Given that it’s so rare, maybe it is worth $11,000. I mean, time matters, too. If you have to wait two years to get one in slightly better shape, is that worth it?” I said. In the end, I was willing to drop to $10,400, but the prospective buyer ultimately decided not to buy the Jeep. He drove five hours back home empty handed.
I don’t want to imply here that anyone screwed up. It’s clear to me that I could have done better providing more detailed photos of the Jeep, and it’s likely clear to this gentleman that in the future he should ask more questions before renting a trailer and driving five hours one-way. We both screwed up. It was a total bust.
But there’s a bright side, here. The bust means this gentleman didn’t end up owning a Jeep he didn’t want (sometimes a vehicle just doesn’t look as good in real life; that’s OK — I think this gentleman might want to just spend $15K-$20K on a cherry one), and it means I’ll be holding onto this CJ-3B for a while. Driving it around town after the duo from the Bay left reminded me why I’d bought the Willys in the first place. It is absolutely fantastic — a true joy that brightens even the cloudiest of days.
Anyway, that’s the whole article. Someone drove 10 hours round trip to see my Jeep, only to decide the price he’d agreed upon was, in his eyes, too much for the car he was now seeing in-person. He was apologetic for changing his mind, I was apologetic that I assumed he had a good understanding of the Jeep’s condition, and in the end we parted ways amicably. Me with one too many Jeeps and him with ten too-few hours. Alas…
Much as you weren’t in it for the money or the car in any particular way, but were mentally committed primarily to getting a fair-looking deal, this guy wasn’t in it for the money or the car in any particular way, but to get a screaming hot deal at somebody else’s loss. We’ve all met the type. Whether they admit it (to themselves) or not, some people’s number one priority is to have the absolute last word in a transaction.
It’s all ok and all good…sometimes things don’t work out and that’s perfectly fine…sometimes it’s for the better…I wouldn’t have cared at all if I made a long drive because just the drive itself would be fun/relaxing being out and about; and having that excitement of “Yeah! let’s go check out this vehicle”
Forgive me for being a cynic but I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t even live in SF, only had 9K with him, and did the same sentimental story plus long drive routine more than once to sucker people into selling for cheap. I used to live in a really nice non-rental neighborhood where a lady was notorious for giving unsuspecting homeowners a sob story about needing to buy a house for her spousal abused, disabled, or struggling daughter to get them to sell to her for cheap. As soon as she bought home, she turned around and rented out the damn thing. There were one or two on each street, it lowered the comps/values, and people hated her for it! Of course, she didn’t actually live in the neighborhood so tough shit for us.
Mqybe you young folk are fine with nothing but photos and videos. To me nothing beats an in person viewer and inspection.
then commit if you like it.
I think if you can’t walk away, you shouldn’t shop long distance.
I’ve gone across the country, the turned around and came back.
Last major purchases I went at least 200 miles for though, and brought something back.
I had an opposite incident. I responded to an ad for a car 3 hours away (6 hours round trip). We arranged to meet in some public place, and he showed up and let me do a test drive. At some point between agreeing to a price and me going to the bank for cash ($2500-ish), the guy got seller’s remorse and decided to keep the car.
I think the buyer only has 10,000 to spend. And thought he could convince you to lower the price after he met you.
I think if this was the case he would have moved up from 9K, but it didn’t sound like he did.
I once went to go look at an Acura ILX I saw online that looked reasonably decent. It was at a used car dealer about an hour away. I went with my dad, as I never car shop alone, and this outing demonstrates why. The car seemed OK, not amazing. The test drive was OK, nothing special, but before we got back, my dad told me to park the car in the sun and look around it again. Sure enough, we spotted some damage to one of the rocker panels we couldn’t see before. Looking back at the listing, they also neglected to take pictures of that side of the car. I bounced saying the car just wasn’t what I really wanted (partially true,ILXs are all sedans and I really wanted a hatchback or wagon).
A few days later, I went and looked at an infinitely nicer and higher spec ILX that was also a better deal at a Lincoln dealer and a newer, fully loaded, but high mileage Honda HR-V at a Honda dealer. While I didn’t want a crossover, the HR-V is basically a lifted Fit so that’s what I went with. I was replacing a Fit so it just felt more right. Plus it was a screaming deal, all because it had a few extra miles on it (149,000 on a sub 5 year old car).
He had in mind the 15000$ one at 11400$ and then was willing at 9K ? hmm whatever, at least you didn’t drive that far
I went looking for a Fox body as a project and found an 88 5.0 LX 5 speed car with no engine or trans that had a spot of the normal rust on the shock tower. It was 1500, which is a good deal for the rollers I’ve found. The U-Haul car trailer is like 65 bucks round trip and the car was 4 hours away, so I rented one and headed out. I figured if it’s as good as the pictures, I’ll bring it home, and if it isn’t, I walk away only out a few hours of time and a few bucks.
Then I got out there and saw the whole drivers side rail was rotted out. Other than that the car was incredibly clean, good floor pans, UPR control arms in the back, a new fuel tank, and someone had cleaned off the whole underside up to the drivers seat and re sprayed it black, and not just thick paint to cover the rust, it’s clean.
So I passed on it in the moment and then went back home to look at pricing on the body pieces and see what else was out there, because what I really wanted was a car I could do a little mechanical work too with a marketplace motor and trans and get moving quick. But honestly, there wasn’t a lot out there better, everything was either way more than I wanted to spend or needed more work, so I bought the frame rail, apron, and metal, then I went back and bought the car.
Then we got a horrendous cold snap for 3 months and my garage is unheated.
I’m wondering if this was a case of “don’t meet your heros” in that he had the vehicle built up in his head.
Then when he saw it in person and drove it a bit, reality set in… in that compared to modern vehicles, old vehicles are nowhere near as nice or comfortable.
To enjoy an old vehicle, you have to be the type of person who enjoys a more raw driving experience.
If this person was the type who “couldn’t survive” without stuff like A/C or heated seats (as so many people seem to be these days), then this old Jeep wasn’t for him.
I wondered the same. That’s a decent amount of coin to spend on a toy.
Years ago I went and looked at an old Scout that was pretty accurately represented in a CL ad (weird, I know). Probably not too far off of this jeep condition wise and pretty much what I wanted, more or less intact running and driving but far from nice.When I got there and looked at it I noticed that the underside had been spraybombed black, which would be fine, but so had the spider webs.. I’m sure it was as crusty as the rest of the truck under that paint, which would have been fine, but I couldn’t see it and so couldn’t trust it. Ended up buying a truck that was very nice and quite intact but barely running and driving.
I purchased an Alfa 164 on eBay, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, on eBay. Prior to bidding, I talked with the owner on the phone for over an hour. I knew the windshield was unobtanium, as was the rest of the glass, so I specifically asked if the glass was okay, to which he assured me it was. Then I asked about the engine, he said it was maintained, and running well. I asked if there were any other issues, he said some of the switches were intermittent. Okay, fine, I bid on it.
I had a friend drive me 3.5 hours away to pick it up. We got there early, and we heard it coming, due to the screaming waterpump. As it pulled around the corner, I saw coolant spewing out from underneath it. When he parked it, I noticed the windshield was cracked. After a test drive, I noticed the inner door handles didn’t work, so you had to roll down the windows and use the exterior handle.
Laughing, I told him this was in no way the car he described, and started to leave. He was pissed the he had to eat the buyer’s fee, but he didn’t understand he wasted SEVEN HOURS of my time, not including fuel, not including getting all the cash out from the bank.
Anyway, David, I think you did a good job showing what kind of condition it was, and maybe the guy didn’t really want it. Who knows. GLWS!
I drove from north of Boston to Detroit to find out the guy lied about the car’s condition (back when digital cameras were rare and not very good). I don’t know if he was as dumb as he acted or thought he had me knowing I was driving from so far away, but I went home without adding to Detroit’s homicide statistics, though not without some choice words. Good thing I loved to drive.
I wonder if this guy was really looking for his father. Maybe he thought that the same kind of Jeep his father had would be a little like going back in time and he realized that he wasn’t looking at a movie DeLorean. If there’s any kind of individual soul to a machine, it would come from the lives that live with it and that “soul” is in that specific machine, not one that just happens to be like it. My favorite car is gone. I could buy another like it, but having driven multiple others, I know that it wouldn’t be that same car that saved my life in several ways (for better or worse) and would ultimately only be disappointing. Sometimes you just have to close a door on the past (so you can open a window and jump).
I engaged a seller 800 miles from me about a 1970’s Jeep Wagoneer. The seller offered to pay half my plane ticket home if I flew up there and didn’t end up making the purchase. I thanked the seller for the offer. Ultimately I flew to the town of the seller, purchased the vehicle, and drove it home.
I’ve found if you can market your things on marketplace to hipsters they tend to be excited hand you the money and take item. Everyone else on there is the general public and does general public things. I don’t know how to hipster up a cj-3 but maybe just wording the post I’m sure you can find a hipster to help. I used my daughter’s barista friend to help me word things.
It sounds like the regret hit him *before* he handed over money. For me, its usually about 10 minutes after, haha
Yep. Me too….
Apparently 10 hours of time and fuel wasn’t worth $1400 to him? He was either completely irrational or just got cold feet and didn’t want to buy it at all. The lowball offer was his attempt to get out of it without admitting he changed his mind. Frankly, he’s probably lucky you weren’t desperate to sell. He might have gone home with a $9000 Jeep he didn’t actually want.
Sounds to me like a “never meet your heroes” situation: this guy had rose-colored glasses memories about them from his dad, but once reality set in, owning/driving one just wasn’t what he’d built it up to be in his head.
I’ve been there before. I drove 8 hours round trip for a Miata I had my heart set on buying and had a cashier’s check ready in my pocket. After taking it for a quick spin, the vibes just weren’t there from both the seller and the car, and I returned home emptyhanded. Nothing against the seller, just wasn’t the one for me. I later found one 5 miles away that I fell in love with and had for years.
Not cool comment.
Implying there aren’t people who have weird ideas about how to negotiate over a price in other countries, too