Home » Stellantis Doesn’t Deserve Jeep

Stellantis Doesn’t Deserve Jeep

Psa Fca Couleurs 07102020
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What happened to the once-mighty Jeep brand? There was a column out a few days ago that makes the point that all of the problems with the Jeep brand center around a bunch of short-sighted decisions by its corporate overlords. Is that fair? In a complex world could it be so simple?

Complexity is the theme of this Tuesday’s chapter of The Morning Dump. Cars are not built in a vacuum and the hope of bringing Volkswagen’s hottest brand to more people is in peril because of various global rules. This is the same Volkswagen that said it wasn’t going to lay people off and is now, of course, considering layoffs.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Tesla is committed to robotaxis and AI and all of it, but it still has to build cars, and building cars is, you guessed it, kind of complex. In particular, it needs a new Model Y to compete in China and the company apparently doesn’t think Chinese citizens will be as forgiving as American ones in one certain area.

The Problem With Jeep Is Stellantis

Jeep Grand Wagoneer L 2023 1600 01

The most valuable car brands in the world, ten years ago, were probably Ferrari and Jeep. Neither sold as many actual vehicles, globally, as a Volkswagen, but I’m not certain you could sell VW-branded strollers to people in Argentina or get 10,000 people who don’t own a Jetta to wear Jetta-themed hats to an F1 race.

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It’s also notable that, for a time, both Jeep and Ferrari were owned by the same parent company. But before Ferrari could become Stellantis, it went public and was spun off in quite a profitable way. Ferrari has since continued to be one of the most valuable brands, car or otherwise, in the world.

Jeep stayed with the parent company and has suffered ever since. In 2018, Jeep sold 973,000 vehicles. It’s dropped every year since, hitting a low of 641,000 vehicles in 2023.

Fiat, it turns out, was initially a decent owner of Jeep. In addition to continuing to invest in the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, Fiat introduced a bunch of lower-cost models like the reimagined and Fiat-based Jeep Cherokee (KL) and Jeep Renegade. These managed to expand the Jeep brand in a way that didn’t ruin the Wrangler image. Of course, Fiat also spent money on bringing Alfa back to the United States instead of making more new Jeep products. It also invested heavily in the new Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer to disappointing results thus far.

I haven’t driven the newest Wrangler yet, though I’ve never driven a bad Wrangler and I think Jeep continues to have strong engineering. It’s usually not engineering that’s the problem with any automaker and that is likely true at Stellantis. The same goes for the designers. I generally think Stellantis designs, whether at Citroën or Chrysler, tend to be as good as the competition and often better.

So what’s the issue? Our buddy Mark Phelan has a big piece in the Detroit Free Press on this that’s been rattling around in my brain like a stray lug in a spare tire well. The headline is: “Jeep’s precipitous decline lies at feet of those in executive suites, mansions”

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Here’s the part that I’ve been thinking about:

Fiat Chrysler’s expensive bet on reviving the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer models has yet to pay off. The big SUVs should do well in the long run, though.

Bottom line: Since 2019, Jeep dropped its third bestselling vehicle, let No. 4 age toward irrelevance and dropped No. 5, the Renegade.

Its 2023 U.S. sales were 31.2% down from before the pandemic.

Facing strong new competition in segments Fiat Chrysler and Stellantis either abandoned or underfunded, it’s a wonder things aren’t worse.

I feel like something is fundamentally broken and it’s a larger systemic problem that was only exacerbated by the pandemic. Most American and European automotive executives (and, to a much lesser extent, workers) earn the bulk of their money not from a salary but from bonuses tied to economic performance and share price. While there’s nothing explicitly wrong with assigning value this way, especially for a public company, the nature of carmaking does create some perverse incentives.

By strangling engineering, marketing, and other areas and putting out old platforms, Stellantis was highly profitable, especially during the pandemic. That is a short-term strategy that seems to be creating long-term problems.

I’ve talked about this before, but it’s not clear to me if this pause was a necessary one to fill the company’s war chest in preparation for an uncertain EV transition or just short-term hopeful thinking that made execs rich yet otherwise doomed the company for the future.

Did Fiat Chrysler set up Stellantis for failure? Did Stellantis exacerbate an existing problem? Is it all going to work out and are we all going to look foolish for doubting Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares? These are complex questions and, short of a crystal ball, I don’t have a great answer.

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I do agree with Mark’s ultimate conclusion, which is that “It was the executive suite, not the hourly workers, engineers, and designers, that got Jeep into this mess.”

FCA-turned-Stellantis underfunded and misdirected Jeep to the point that it’s a fraction of what it was and risks losing the future to EV companies like Rivian, Tesla, and even Chinese brands like BYD.

Ferrari’s detachment from FCA, in retrospect, was a great move. Jeep is a much larger automaker and needs shared platforms to be successful so that might not have worked. Still, Stellantis so far hasn’t proven it deserves to own Jeep or knows what to do with it.

Is CUPRA In Trouble?

Medium 3889 Cuprarange

Here’s a good example of me not being able to predict the future: If you’d asked me a decade ago which Volkswagen subbrand would be the most exciting and well-positioned for global expansion in 2025 I’d have probably said Škoda, because I love Škoda. I’m not saying that a brand based on Spanish-affiliate SEAT’s Cupra subcompact performance car would be the last brand I’d have picked, but it wouldn’t have been first.

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And yet, Cupra is killing it right now. Its mix of hybrid and electric vehicles are poised for a big second half of the decade. Or, well, they were. Now it’s a little less certain. Specifically, CUPRA had a plan to help its parent company meet EU-mandated CO2 targets by selling a Chinese-built Tavascan SUV in large numbers in Europe. Proposed Chinese tariffs of up to 21.3% could have the effect of making that SUV now too expensive to sell at volumes that were predicted.

From Reuters this morning:

“It puts the whole financial future of the company at risk,” Griffiths said, speaking from Barcelona. “The intention was to protect the European car industry but for us, it’s having the opposite effect.”

The comments are the strongest yet by a carmaker affected by the tariffs, highlighting worries Brussels will hurt domestic players it is trying to protect via its probe of Chinese subsidies launched almost a year ago.

The anti-subsidy tariffs are on top of the EU’s standard 10% duty on car imports, a measure the Commission says is aimed at levelling the playing field and countering what it says are unfair subsidies. Beijing has threatened to retaliate with probes into EU imports of dairy, pork and cognac.

Complexity! The EU said it wanted more EVs so automakers did the logical thing and made deals with China, which was subsidizing EV development and production, so it could then sell those Chinese-built cars in Europe (and elsewhere). Now the EU, and other governments, are saying: We want clean cars, we don’t really want to pay too much for them, and you can’t build them where it’s cheaper.

Is that fair? Volkswagen would argue it isn’t and they aren’t alone. In particular, SEAT says it plans to build most of its cars in Europe and this is a “one-off” designed to get a new EV to market quickly and affordably and that its car isn’t particularly subsidized (though given the investment China made in battery infrastructure, every new EV is de facto subsidized by those investments).

Again, it’s complex, though VW is also working the refs (in this case the EU) here a bit because that’s what big companies do.

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Is VW Going To Back Out Of Its ‘No-Layoffs’ Pledge?

Vw Plant
Photo: Deposit Photos

Speaking of working the refs, Volkswagen is a partially state-owned enterprise as the German state government of Lower Saxony owns about 13% of the automaker.

Volkswagen famously said it would not close any plants, a promise made way back in 1994 and is supposed to continue until the end of this decade. That might not be the case anymore, according to the Associated Press:

“The European automotive industry is in a very demanding and serious situation,” Oliver Blume, Volkswagen Group CEO, said in a statement Monday.

He cited new competitors entering the European markets, Germany’s deteriorating position as a manufacturing location and the need to “act decisively.”

Thomas Schaefer, the CEO of the Volkswagen Passenger Cars division, said efforts to reduce costs were “yielding results” but that the “headwinds have become significantly stronger.”

Understandably, the local unions are not happy. This could just be a plea for more concessions or some other changes in policy (see above). Or it could be the prelude to the first plant closing since the ill-fated VW facility in Pennsylvania in 1988.

China Might Get A Six-Seat Model Y

0x0 Modely 04
Photo: Tesla

CEO Elon Musk continues to think of Tesla as a company that makes robots, robotaxis, and basically everything other than cars. But it still has to make cars. That’s how it makes money. In particular, it makes a ton of Model Ys.

The Model Y is a great car but, like many of Jeep’s products, it’s getting a little long-in-the-tooth and planned updates have been delayed. The good news is that a refreshed Model Y, codenamed Juniper, is likely going to launch early next year.

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Even better and slightly more amusingly, they’re going to make a six-passenger car for China because they reportedly don’t think they can sell the seven-seater that Americans buy:

Tesla sells a seven-seater Model Y in the U.S. but a cramped third row would make it unpopular in China, the people said.

“It’s not even large enough for a large-sized dog,” one of the people said.

Lol. This is definitely true.  I’ve got a buddy who designed cars in China for years and is now designing interiors here and, contrary to what you think, the Chinese consumer has way higher expectations now than your average American.

Presumably, the configuration would be 2-2-2 as opposed to 2-3-2 for the U.S version, though a 1-2-3 configuration could be fun.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

I will now get five of you to listen to “The Three E.P.s” by The Beta Band.

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The Big Question

Is Stellantis really to blame for Jeep’s problems? Was it really FCA’s fault? Or, even more provocatively, is Jeep fine?

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J G
J G
2 months ago

of course stellantis deserves jeep. nothing is more american than selling out to an overseas company to dodge taxes while raising prices and lowering quality. no other country is better at that than us.

Space
Space
1 month ago
Reply to  J G

The brits are pretty good at it too!

Mike Honcho
Mike Honcho
2 months ago

This headline is backwards. Jeep owners deserve stellantis. At one time it was all about off roading in the cheapest way possible. Now its who can fit the most catalog items on their jeep and hold the most rubber ducks. They are pandering to the people that buy new jeeps for the image. This will be an unpopular take but its a status symbol for the starbucks mocha-choca bullshit crowd. The real jeep enthusiast owners are probably only shopping vehicles that are 15-20+ years old.

Matthew Lowe
Matthew Lowe
2 months ago

As a 2022 regular Wagoneer owner, and long-time Chrysler/Jeep customer, I can confirm that things have gone astray with the brand. Perceived quality is unacceptable for any new vehicle, much less an $80K one. In contrast to the 2014 WK2 Hemi JGC I grew up with (half the price new,) the WS Wagoneer has not turned out to be a compelling value prop, even at 0% APR. Multiple inexcusable quality issues baked in from the factory (vibration at highway speeds, crazy weird tire wear, rattles, etc.) and just feels half-baked in general (poor ride quality, embarrassing fake wood and crap plastics.) I think GM does this category much better, and that’s where I should have put my money. You can tell the lack of insight and understanding Stellantis has for this competitive set.

Gen-O Bernardo
Gen-O Bernardo
2 months ago

william munny said it best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10XXtoCjk5c

GhosnInABox
GhosnInABox
2 months ago

I recall Motortrend comparing Jeep to a parasitic Xenomorph back in like 2008. It thrives until the host dies, then the hunt is on! I count a total of eight parent-brand casualties so far but the day ain’t over yet.

Goblin
Goblin
2 months ago

The brands who owned Jeep do indeed not deserve Jeep, in the sense that they didn’t deserve what hit them.

Renault saved Jeep once in the Eighties, then got kicked out the second it covered all its debts, keeping a meager distribution deal of Jeep in France, where it was also taken away from it a few years later – with borderline mockery and “You’re not good enough for us, sucker” tones.

No matter how much I dislike Fiat – they also took Jeep (and the rest) out of the mud, to be spat on now.

Looks like no one likes to be taken out of the shithole, being carefully washed, then keep seeing the one who took them out of the shithole and washed them in the first place – turns out it reminds them of the days they had shit all over.

Not a good thing to be reminded of on the days when you smell like roses. Then again, who needs any reflexion on why they periodically end up in shithole in the first place, when there’s always some sucker to jump into the hole to wash you – then it’s all rinse and repeat.

StupidAmericanPig
StupidAmericanPig
2 months ago

The 3 EPs was daily listening for me back in the early aughts. I’m going to have to fire up the stereo and give it another listen!

John Metcalf
John Metcalf
2 months ago

I’ve loved “Dry the Rain” ever since it was featured in 2000’s High Fidelity starring John Cusack and Jack Black.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
2 months ago

It’s good to see China recover from the one child policy and need 3 row SUVs. They must also be putting some meat (fat) on their bones. American cultural exports are still a thing!

pizzaman09
pizzaman09
2 months ago

I was very disappointed in the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer. They just don’t look like a truck to me, but rather a minivan with some odd proportions. It doesn’t look expensive so people aren’t going to put big money down on one.

My family likes Jeeps, I have owned two Comanches and my parents have owned two Grand Cherokees. I’d own a Gladiator if they offered a two door with a longer bed. As of today, there isn’t much in Jeep’s lineup that excites me, a base two door manual Wrangler is pretty awesome, but otherwise they have gone too luxury and too refined for my tastes.

Andrew Pappas
Andrew Pappas
2 months ago
Reply to  pizzaman09

I think the problem is pushing the grand Wagoneer. People are all “im not paying 100k for that” when the Wagoneer is a nice proposition at $65k

Stephen Reed
Stephen Reed
2 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Pappas

I’ve wondered why they didn’t simplify the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer to be more in line with the Ford Expedition/Chevy Tahoe/Suburban, and then have the higher end one like we see in Jeep be in the Chrysler lineup to help rebuild Chrysler’s lineup?

MikuhlBrian
MikuhlBrian
2 months ago
Reply to  Stephen Reed

When Jeep last sold the Grand Wagoneer in the 80s, it was the luxury SUV to have. If I remember correctly, the Grand Wagoneer had the highest income bracket of any vehicle, and was routinely sharing garage space with Mercedes and BMWs. The problem was, they killed it. It hasn’t been around for 30+ years when they reintroduced it.

In that time, the full size luxury SUV space took off. Range Rover. Benz. BMW. Even the Escalade and Navigator. They have all had years to build up their brand equity to command the prices that they do. But the Grand Wagoneer didn’t. Jeep is trying to just jump back in 30 years later with a name and price that doesn’t resonate with those people who are the target market.

And the other thing that irks me is how they branded the two vehicles. The Grand moniker has a long history with Mopar vehicles. Grand always meant the bigger one. The Grand Wagoneer (SJ) and Wagoneer (XJ, smaller). The Caravan/Voyager and Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager (longer wheelbase). The Cherokee (XJ, smaller) and Grand Cherokee (ZJ, bigger).

But now you have the Wagoneer in short and long wheelbase to compete with the Tahoe/Suburban and the Grand Wagoneer to compete with the Escalade.

VanGuy
VanGuy
2 months ago

I’m not in the know…”Bottom line: Since 2019, Jeep dropped its third bestselling vehicle, let No. 4 age toward irrelevance and dropped No. 5, the Renegade.” Can someone name all 5 for me? (possibly before and after)

I’ll also just whisper that the (Grand/)Wagoneer could be good for the Chrysler name instead…

Maryland J
Maryland J
2 months ago

Willys Motors (1953–63)
Kaiser Jeep (1963–1970)
American Motors (1970–1987)
Chrysler Corporation (1987–1998)
DaimlerChrysler (1998–2007)
Chrysler LLC (2007–2009)
Chrysler Group LLC (2009–2014)
FCA US LLC (2014–2021)
Stellantis North America (2021–present)

This too shall pass.

John Metcalf
John Metcalf
2 months ago
Reply to  Maryland J

Was going to comment something similar (but you’ve done the hard work here.) Jeep is the brand every company wants, but often doesn’t know what to do with it once they’ve got it.

Maybe they need one “Morgan” product that doesn’t really change—the Wrangler could be that, but it keeps growing and getting out of reach financially.

Can Jeep just steal the plans to a Jimny? Thanks.

Beto O'Kitty
Beto O'Kitty
2 months ago

It’s Ok Matt the recall will still be around tomorrow. I never owned a Jeep but my Captain Obvious answer is replace the J with a Ch.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
2 months ago

Is Stellantis really to blame for Jeep’s problems? Was it really FCA’s fault?”

FCA did a great job with Jeep and Ram as well. But they did a lousy job with Dodge and Chrysler… as well as doing stupid things like splitting Ram from Dodge and continuing to throw good money after bad at Fiat in North American.

They also botched Alfa Romeo’s revival with serious reliability issues.

I think it’s too early to say if Stellantis is to blame for Jeep’s problems. Though the idea that they would make ‘Wagoneer’ its own brand was absolutely stupid.

But the idea of bringing out a new Wagoneer was a good idea in my view… at least for the North American market.

One thing is critical though… their new Inline 6 engine, which replaced the Hemi V8 engines, had better be rock solid reliable. If that engine gets a bad reputation, it will cause a downturn in sales of their most profitable vehicles.

As for Jeep’s sales being down… I think that’s just a function of the whole SUV market having more competition than ever, market saturation, a bit of an economic downturn and Jeep MSRPs that are still in COVID-shortage fantasyland.

Mr. Fusion
Mr. Fusion
2 months ago

FCA splitting-off RAM allowed for the potential outcomes of either selling or shuttering Dodge while keeping the massively profitable truck business for themselves, or selling RAM & Jeep and shutting down the rest of Chrysler Group altogether. Neither of those ended up happening, but it positioned FCA for more flexibility in potential shutdown or spinoff scenarios.

As always, no thought was given toward consumer-facing factors such as brand strength, etc.

I’ve said it before in these comments, but Tavares came in with a good reputation as being brand-savvy (especially compared to late-era FCA), but has done nothing for North America. It’s actually impressive how little he’s moved the needle. The fact that we’re even asking “Is Stellantis really to blame for Jeep’s problems? Was it really FCA’s fault?” indicates a failure of Stellantis to communicate what they are planning. Even saying “Our plans are in flux thanks to unsteady EV adoption, and we’re having to re-trench” is communication. Saying something is always better than saying nothing.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
2 months ago

IMO, they bet the house on the inline 6 engine. It’s going to be really interesting to see how it fairs. I’ve read some things that give me concern, but they could end up being nothing.

CRM114
CRM114
2 months ago

How would a 2-2-2 configuration for the Y be any better than 2-3-2 for 3rd row space? I would think a 3-3 configuration would be more likely.

ReverendDC
ReverendDC
2 months ago

Jeeps have been known as off road beasts, but they’ve been trying to go upmarket for some time. WAY too expensive for what is essentially an overbuilt econobox…along with reliability issues, Jeep is a sacred cow. Sorry DT.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
2 months ago

What’s the consensus on the Grand Cherokee L? These can be found with massive discounts right now, which has brought them onto my radar.

Gee See
Gee See
2 months ago

They are fine? I mean the drive train is so well known by now and the weak spots have been identified eg plastic oil cooler is prone to break in the V of the V6. The bigger the discount the bigger the delta between it and competitors.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
2 months ago
Reply to  Gee See

I suspect the discount brings these, to where they really should be priced. But, that discount is putting them below competitors prices from what I’ve seen.

StupidAmericanPig
StupidAmericanPig
2 months ago

I’ve got a 2015 Grand Cherokee SRT and I recently Turo’ed a Grand Cherokee L. The GC L felt like a step backwards to me- the ride quality was not so great. The longer wheelbase made it feel less solid. The pentastar v6 is adequate but it is by no means a quick vehicle. The interior is a step up in the new version but the flimsiness of the chassis is really bad.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
2 months ago

That’s a shame. I liked the previous generation GC. Very odd that the longer wheelbase would feel less solid. In my other experiences, the longer wheelbases ride better. Tahoe vs Suburban for example.

BagoBoiling
BagoBoiling
2 months ago

Agreed. I had a 2014 GC that I loved. I assumed I would like the GC L when we started looking for a 3 row. After spending a week with a loaner it was a no go for me. As I told my wife, “This thing drives like a turd.”

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
2 months ago

I’ve seen that too. Also looked at the Pacifica again (stow and go is pretty great).

What worries me the most at this point is the repeated stories of Jeep/Chrysler dealers being absolute garbage at fixing warranty issues. Including the ones who straight up refused to work on the corrosion cars. I can deal with a few issues, but the company to needs to make it right. If I have no faith in that, then what the hell am I signing up for?

Bill Garcia
Bill Garcia
1 month ago
Reply to  Vic Vinegar

I had to lemon-law my Wrangler 4xe and will do everything I can to avoid dealing with the dealer or with Jeep corporate… so I got a used Jeep that was out of warranty knowing what the risk was.

You could do the same with a Pacifica!

Henry Prange
Henry Prange
2 months ago

Sacred

Henry Prange
Henry Prange
2 months ago

Hardly anyone mentions that the Stellantis brands sold in the US all reside at the bottom of the reliability rankings, as did Chrysler products for decades beforehand. I can see why David Tracy or anyone who likes to repair cars buys Jeeps: no matter which model or year you choose, it is bound to need work. Building poorly constructed vehicles seems to be a scared tradition. Maybe they should consider quality control?

Gee See
Gee See
2 months ago
Reply to  Henry Prange

Not really quality control if the parts are designed to break?

Last edited 2 months ago by Gee See
Andy Individual
Andy Individual
2 months ago
Reply to  Henry Prange

First you have to define what quality you are trying to control.

Squirrelmaster
Squirrelmaster
2 months ago

I have owned several Jeeps in the past, but they have simply gotten to expensive. It was one thing when the price went up 15% between my JK Rubicons, but buying an equivalent Rubicon to the one I had ten years ago is nearly 40% more. They priced themselves out of consideration for me, and the Wrangler was the only one I considered because the resale drop for other models is just too severe.

To echo what others have said, Stellantis needs to let go of Jeep, because they don’t understand how to run that brand any other way than poorly.

Strangek
Strangek
2 months ago
Reply to  Squirrelmaster

I’ve had multiple JGCs, but apparently I can’t afford them anymore and it’s not because I’m earning less money. Jeep priced me out.

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