If you look down at your phone to check out an Instagram reel and crash your Chevy Bolt into the Golden Gate Bridge, do not expect General Motors to claim any responsibility for any part of it or help you out at all. You own the car, you broke it, that’s on you. But all the data generated during that accident? Car companies might think they’re entitled to that.
Few people, according to a new study, are happy about this. New cars can generate huge amounts of data, but what gets done with that data is poorly understood and, potentially, a huge gold mine for automakers. Will they share said gold with you? Maybe not.
Speaking of data, CDK Global is getting its back after a ransomware attack and the ransomers have reportedly been identified.
Much of your Autopian crew is headed to Goodwood for the Festival of Speed this year, and it’ll be interesting to see which Stellantis brands are on display since the UK Stellantis boss is warning the government there it might end production on the island nation.
And, finally, Ford is recalling more than half a million F-150s sold in 2014 due to faulty transmissions.
If Data Is The New Gold, You’re Driving Around In Scrooge McDuck’s Pool
My 2003 BMW E39, while an advanced car at the time, doesn’t feel so advanced compared to the new PHEV BMW X5 I’m driving this week. The X5 could probably be classified as a “connected car” and, while I’m not sure it’s generating the 25 gigs of data an hour like some vehicles, it’s loaded with sensors.
Mostly, these sensors are helpful. One of the external cameras on the car smartly pointed out a parking sign that sneakily sprouts out of a patch of asphalt where I park. I’m quite familiar with this sign and have yet to hit it, but seeing it highlighted in red on the screen would be helpful to someone new to this parking lot.
Who owns this data? Since I’m just borrowing this car, it’s definitely BMW. If I owned the car? That’s a different question.
This came up earlier this year when it was discovered that General Motors (and Honda and Hyundai) was sharing data about customer driving behavior with intermediary companies that, unsurprisingly, shared it with insurance companies (which allegedly raised rates).
GM backed off sharing that data, but it was a reminder that car companies do have your data and will share it if you don’t specifically ask them not to do that. Tesla is probably the most interesting case here as the company has admitted it needs tons of data to power its AI-backed self-driving system, though I don’t think most Tesla customers are surprised about this. In this case, at least, there’s a tangible benefit to sharing data as it theoretically helps make all cars (and thus your car) better.
A new survey by the insurance app Jerry found that essentially all drivers think they should own their own car’s data. From Automotive News:
The survey, which polled 1,300 adults who own or lease vehicles and who drive at least once a week, found that 96 percent of people said they should own any and all data generated from their car, and that 78 percent of drivers are uncomfortable or extremely uncomfortable with automakers even collecting driver data in the first place.
The findings suggest a difficult road ahead for manufacturers, insurance companies and other data brokers that have been banking on a veritable laundry list of uses for consumer data. Automakers and other stakeholders paint a picture of a future replete with customized vehicle settings for different drivers, personalized subscription offerings pitched directly through the central infotainment center, smart R&D enhanced by utilization rates of certain features and more.
This goes back to the subscription services issue. Automakers want you to buy their cars, but they also want you to constantly pay them for the right to use it. The holy grail of the automotive bean counters is a car that never stops generating income.
Group Behind CDK Ransomware Attack Identified
Yesterday, we shared that the CDK Global hack was actually a ransomware attack and that CDK was going to pony up “tens of millions of dollars,” but not to whom. Now we probably know the whom.
A hacking group called BlackSuit is behind the cyberattack on CDK Global that’s paralyzed car sales across the US, according to Allan Liska, a threat analyst at the security firm Recorded Future Inc.
The cybercrime group has demanded an extortion fee in the tens of millions of dollars from CDK, which plans to make the payment, Bloomberg News reported on Friday. CDK’s name was not listed Monday on the website where BlackSuit names its extortion victims, a possible indication that the company is still in negotiations with the group or has paid a ransom, said Liska, who specializes in ransomware investigations and has been in discussions with those involved in the CDK case.
CDK is bringing systems back online, which also indicates that something (like a payment) has happened.
‘In The UK There Will Be Consequences’ Warns Yet Another Stellantis Exec Wanting To Throw Hands With The Government
It’s like Stellantis execs all went to the Mickey Spillane School Of Business. I grew up in Texas and rarely have I seen so much beef. Whether it’s fighting with suppliers or constantly bickering with the Italian government, the company is always trying to play hardball.
This week’s dust-up comes courtesy of UK Stellantis chief Maria Grazia Davino, who had this warning for the United Kingdom, whose current government might not last two more weeks:
“In the UK there will be consequences (of the mandates) for sure,” Grazia Davino said. “Stellantis UK does not stop, but Stellantis production in the UK could stop.”
This comes courtesy of Reuters via Yahoo Finance and was from a press conference at the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) in London. Davino is cranky about the UK ruling that 22% of new cars need to be EVs, with Davino saying that “demand is not there.”
To clarify, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t want to keep making electric vans in England, as the company does, she just wants to get paid more in incentives by the government. If the government doesn’t bend, Stellantis might just import fewer gas-powered models in order to juke the percentage in the company’s favor and stop producing cars in the UK altogether.
I don’t think this will sway the big UK election on July 4th, but Stellantis is clearly out here posturing.
Ford Recalling 552,188 Ford F-150s Over Weird Shifting
Ford said it prevented about 12 recalls by slowing the rollout of its newest F-150, which is something the company probably should have done in 2014. The latest (of seven) recalls for the 2014 F-150 is all about shifting.
Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling certain 2014 F-150 vehicles. A loss of signal between the transmission output shaft speed sensor and the powertrain control module can cause the transmission to unexpectedly downshift into first gear, regardless of vehicle speed.
That’s not great [Ed Note: Actually, that’s more than just not great; that’s absolutely terrible and dangerous and my god can you imagine that happening on the highway? Goodbye motor! Possibly goodbye control over your truck! -DT], but the solution is apparently a free software update (no OTA for these trucks so you’ll have to go to the dealer if you have a recalled truck).
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I, for one, listened to a lot of Rage Against the Machine growing up because, you know, how do you top Tom Morello? Dude shreds. So. Much. Fun.
The Big Question
Where’s the most embarrassing place you drive with your car?
This is what I got from it: Even after this hack, the service at Kia dealers is still just as bad? Ha ha
Ford has managed to do the impossible and build an automatic transmission that can money shift for you. I thought that was only possible with a manual.
I suppose they could get my data if they smash my windows and plug into my OBD port? Doesn’t sound very useful.
> The latest (of seven) recalls for the 2014 F-150
Sigh, I wonder if I have to wait for the letter or if I can just show up at a nearby ‘ship
Might as well call to make an appointment, give ’em your VIN. Worth a try.
Yeah, but give it a week or two until the dealerships’ web vendor is back online.
Like JunkerDave said call to make an appointment the service department can see all open recalls. Or you can try the NHTSA recall lookup by VIN
https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/
If a third party knew how often I visited my mom, they might have some concerns.
Most embarrassing place I drive my car? I really can’t think of one. But I suppose it could be argued there are some businesses I frequent sharing real estate with businesses I wouldn’t support and a car wouldn’t know the difference.
Like a landscaping storefront?
As an auto-accident reconstructionist and dealing with this professionally, I analyze data from the vehicles ACM (airbag control module) which stores pre-crash data.
You’d be shocked how much data the car records and how much data I can extract (albeit with proprietary software/hardware) to analyze and provide feedback to the insurance about what you testified were doing in the car before the impact versus what the car recorded you were doing.
Can you tell if someone was engaging in fellacio?
Asking for a friend.
Usually it’s the airbag that blows.
I once valeted my ’98 Cavalier (this is in, like…2016) with a nice rust hole in the lower door at a relatively fancy hotel.
So the place wasn’t embarrassing, but the car certainly was out of place. It made me chuckle.
Axel Foley, in Beverly Hills Cop, emerging from his crappy Chevy Nova, to the Beverly Palm parking valet (among Ferraris): “Be careful with it. The last time I was here all this happened!”
Sure, your car is a mountain of data but so is your internet connection, cell phones provide much finer location information along with everything else you do on it (yes you too Apple), credit card, debit card, and literally everything else in our lives today. We need privacy laws, but our lawmakers are uninterested in that.
We can visualize how a phone moves through an area at it hits various cell towers, in malls we do that with Bluetooth and isolate the mac address or if your Wi-Fi is on that can be used, we can use that as well. With cell repeaters we can see where someone is in a building as well.
Your personal data’s value on the open market is a few cents to a couple of dollars at most. It’s the volume of data that provide any value.
Your mobile phone is not reading exact throttle position and braking force and time/location of where you go and park, and then selling this info to insurance companies. Vehicle manufacturers with telematics are. Said insurance companies will very specifically adjust your policy rates. This is a different issue than Google knowing which websites I browse.
Your phone can measure force changes, it knows if you are driving, parked, a lot more than you are assuming. All of that can be collected to create a complete behavioral picture.
Yes, I understand a phone could do this in theory, but I have yet to see any evidence Google or Apple is selling this info to insurance companies to inform individual rates. Meanwhile, car manufacturers are actively collecting and selling driving data, and insurers are actively using that data today.
I’m worried about the threat that is currently happening, less about one that could happen. If you’re cool with telematics, good for you, get a policy that includes it and be monitored. I still value some privacy.
I’ve got news for that 96% of people: Every website you visit is generating data about you and you don’t own that either. Although I think in the EU you can insist they delete it, which may or may not be effective depending on whether they’ve already sold it to some third party.
On the other hand, if my data is worth that much surely they can compensate me for it by covering part of my car payment each month. Right? Right?!
Only sort of kidding. I understand that the reason most things on the internet are free is because they collect data on me. That hasn’t had a positive impact on car prices though so they can take a hike as far as I’m concerned.
Your data is worth about $1.50 at most but usually a few cents. Individual data is not that valuable. Data brokers make money with bulk sales.
Your data is worth hundreds of dollars if that’s what your new auto insurance policy adjustment is after too many quick starts and stops are reported to your carrier.
It’s worth that to you but the market rate is pennies. Neither the government nor the corporations care if it cost you more.
I do care about telematics potentially costing me hundreds more for insurance. Seems like more people should be aware, I think they would care too.
I saw Rage and Wu Tang. Tom had a broken leg and came out and rocked with a cast on. Wu Tang came out pretty late and ODB was MIA (obviously still alive at the time), but they put on a great show.
No idea, but it may not be possible. Musically talented and a champion of the working class. There was video of him performing on the street outside strip clubs that were on strike last year. Total boss.
I’ve yet to find one thing I don’t like about him. Amazing artist and musician and a great human being. One of the few celebrities I would actually like (more than like) to meet.
Re those Fords shifting into first gear:
Whoever managed the programmers on that project really ought to be fired or at least spanked in front of the entire staff of Ford. Just because something is never supposed to happen is no excuse for not planning a contingency for that and soft failing.
Sure, you can see the logic here is that if the drive shaft is not spinning, the vehicle must not be moving and if the vehicle is not moving, it should shift to first gear because speeds between zero and n require first gear. I can also see the attractiveness of not having to connect the transmission to the antilock brakes and traction control, and whatever else monitors speed, but this shouldn’t have even survived being written down on a whiteboard. Stupid, stupid stupid stupid.
I’m not a programmer, but I expect I know how any issue discussions went:
Programmer: “That’s an Edge-Case.
BOOM. Mic Drop. I’m going home early!”
My experience is that programmers once they know about an edge case want to fix it but their managers. hate hate hate having to figure out how to test for them.
My experience in software projects in large corporations is that programmers love solving edge case problems, but their managers hate hate hate having to try to figure out a way of testing the solutions.
I’ll take your experience on that.
Admittedly, the recent edge-case programming discussion was actually from GM management saying that running people over with their autonomous vehicles was an edge-case, so they didn’t have to worry about it. So I acknowledge you’re probably right.
Software team Management: “That’s an Edge-Case. BOOM. Mic Drop. I’m going home early!”
Speaking of programming and edge cases WTF with this comment system?
Minor bone to pick, and in light of David’s piece about the CT comments, its time to air my grievance. Accountants are not just “bean counters”, and no automotive company would be in business as long as they have been, if not for financially focused people in the business. If every reference to a mechanic on a website referred to them as wrench jockeys, it would get old. I’m not toooo offended by this, but it seems like a lazy crutch that the creatives types use to discount some of the things they don’t fully understand( Matt I KNOW you understand finance, which is why I love TMD.) Lets show a little love to the people that actually keep cars affordable, because without fiscal guardrails there is no money to manufacture.
As they are blamed for cost cutting otherwise good cars into bad or killing beloved (unprofitable) projects, without people there to balance the books, there is no business. It’s a team sport and automotive history is strewn with the corpses of companies (and some that are now owned by massive companies who blanded out the product) who forgot that. And while the few cars they produced may be beloved by enthusiasts long after their demise, their perhaps unnecessary failure has left the landscape a lot less interesting.
For the record:
bean counter
noun
A person, such as an accountant or financial officer, who is concerned with quantification, especially to the exclusion of other matters.
A person, such as an accountant or financial officer, who is concerned with quantification, especially to the exclusion of other matters: (Financial Times)..
An accountant or bureaucrat who is believed to place undue emphasis on the control of expenditures.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/bean%20counter
So not all accountants are bean counters but all bean counters are accountants/financial officers/bureaucrats.
Are you an accountant?
Worse: I’m a pedantic scientist.
Emphasis mine, but this name boils down to a belief of others, meaning they are not aware what the so called bean counter does, but they believe their input is undue. Everyone in a financial position of a company has a responsibility to that company, just because others don’t understand it doesn’t mean they should belittle the position. Can we start calling car designers “scribble pigs” because all they do is draw and play with clay?
Ford just repurchased my lemon law’ed 2022 Bronco, which I sincerely appreciate. One thing I won’t miss though is how much data about my driving FordPass was collecting and selling to others without my consent. I’ve also had a Tesla, this is an industry wide issue, not a specific make.
I will fight hard against driving any newer car with an onboard telematics unit in the future. Even if this means I’m relegated to pre-2010 or so vehicles. With my 76 F150, 86 Defender, and 04 Cayenne, this shouldn’t be an issue. And insuring older cars is still cheaper, at least until insurance companies decide to band together and penalize everyone without telematics.
Sigh. A lot of new car technology is making things worse, not better.
You should be good with anything that was connected via 3G. So, anything pre 2017??? Help me out here crowd.
I think I recall reading that some (maybe Honda and Volvo) were putting those units in as recently as 2019 if you can believe that. I can. I can believe it.
“And insuring older cars is still cheaper, at least until insurance companies decide to band together and penalize everyone without telematics.”
Please, don’t give them ideas.*
*They probably already had this idea and are already working on implementing it.
As a UK citizen I don’t know who to take least seriously: head of the UK arm of the most confusing mess of car companies or our actual government. I bet I can get away with just ignoring them both.
The government will win the long game, with the public losing in all scenarios.
Collectively the government always wins, but as individual politicians they often end up as scandalised embarrassments or entirely irrelevant. Or at least the ones in the UK do.
Plus the current UK government is about to be replaced. Quite a lot a the shambolic narcissists are about to become unemployed.
One can only hope a few normal blokes can get some happiness one way or the other here; you don’t get far into politics when you’re not wealthy (one of the poors).
To be replaced by a new bunch of shambolic narcissists, just like it ever was.
The only embarrassment I’ve had with where my car is was when I got letters from both my employer and the owner of my residential car park about the BMW that I had abandoned in each location.
It wasn’t abandoned, it was my daily driver, it just looked abandoned: matte black paint, no grill, black plastic bag instead of a rear window.
Anyway, if anyone wants my location data they can have it, but I want them to go old school about it and just follow me around.
Are there even opt outs for this kind of data mining? Its bad enough when its automatically opted in, but its even worse when its a mandatory part of the “Agreement” with the dealer when you buy the car new. Otherwise, there’s a modem in there somewhere, and it has a power wire. I have wire cutters…. I’m ok losing built in NAV and such.
Tesla has settings for this under the “software” tab of the UI — in “Data Sharing” they tell you what the data is being used for and allow you some finer grain control of what data is being sent. You can also configure it to ask you for permission every drive. I find it a nice compromise; I like giving them my drive data because I do receive a benefit in terms of enhanced software and functions. This data is mostly useless to the average owner BTW.
I don’t recall my newere F-150 having this level of choice and control. That’s an issue.
> This data is mostly useless to the average owner BTW.
FWIW when people say they want to own that data, it’s not about having it but more about controlling who else should have it.
My newer VW has an opt out but I have zero confidence that it was effective. The “penalties” when big companies steal our data (or mishandle our money, or poison us, etc.) are a relatively minor cost of doing business.
I researched exactly how to disable the telematics and data collection on my 2022 Bronco. But it voids the warranty to do so.
Simple. Disconnect the antenna to the telematics radio when the warranty expires.
After already sharing my location, driving behavior, and time of every activity for 3-5 years of the warranty? No, thank you! Maybe I’ll just buy cars already off warranty….
Buy it within a year of warranty expiration, have an independent shop do a full inspection and take the inspection sheet to a dealer for all repairs under warranty. Then just do whatever you wanna do to void it. It’s what I would do if I wanted a newer car. Besides, then it’ll have been on the road long enough to find out if it’s a lemon.
Or have a low branch rip it off for you in the first week of ownership.
Or just wrap it in foil.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Total crap. Does it also throw a CEL?
I would never trust them with a software setting change, it’s hardware removal for me (or car without it).
Wow, even Jon Lovitz is taking Ozempic now.
Who would be the SNL analog for this Stellantis functionary? Jan Hooks? Victoria Jackson?
Debbie Downer
“It’s official. We’re pulling out of the UK.” (womp womp)
Walking out of the press conference, “By the way, it’s official. I can’t have children.”
If you keep getting in arguments in grocery stores and restaurants, eventually something has to give.
I wouldn’t say embarrassed but it was funny. I used to do HR and claims at a valet company when I was much younger. I’d get free tickets to Lightning games and free valet parking as well. There was nothing funnier than going to a nice place and seeing the RR’s, Ferrari’s, and Lambo’s parked in the front with meticulous care and then between all those, seeing my shitbox Ford Focus ZX-5 parked there with them.
oooo a ZX5 😀
Oh yes, my father bought it for me while I was in college as an ex demo dealership car with under 3K when I got it. It’s over 240K, I refused to part with is because it has sentimental value to me. When it’s running fine, I forget how much fun it is to drive a small car. I fell in love with the car when I was visiting Spain and was waiting for it to be released stateside.
I have a similar story and like you said, not embarrassing but I found it humorous. My work hosts conferences in big convention centers that are almost always connected to fancy 5-star hotels which is where they put us up for the week. One of those hotels only had valet parking with no self parking option and at the time I was driving a 13yo base model Tacoma with 300K+ miles. Dropping that off with the valet and asking them to “park it somewhere nice” always made me chuckle.
Well, as my father said in response to me asking him why he didn’t drive a BMW or Mercedes like the other doctors. He said, “the car does not give me status, I give the car status.” Lets just say you gave that Tacoma status. :-p
Anecdote about old Mercedes diesels and Valet parking goes here.
Most embarrassing place I drive my car? Everywhere. Trust me, if you have seen my car, you understand.
I was thinking something along these same lines but couldn’t articulate what I wanted to say. Thank you for doing it for me.
Altima?
Lol, no, that’d just be adding insult to injury.
Where’s the most embarrassing place you drive with your car? Coming back from your mom’s house, ay oh! (Sorry, you teed that joke up too well, no ill will intended).
That’s not embarrassing though. If they want that data they’re welcome to it 😉
F- you, Shoresy! (also intended in good humor, too much vitriol on the internet)
Ford: Quality is Job 1(00). I’m glad to see their focus on getting a handle on their recall issues is paying dividends.
The Stellantis lady may be right. PHEV is where it’s at. Exhibit A: Jeep Wrangler 4xe
Seconded – HEV and PHEV! Judging by availability of these type of vehicles (nearly unobtainable), you can see where people are dipping a toe in and, largely, liking the experience of fewer trips to the pump.
Unsaid: I’m sure Stellantis is probably looking for a handout to balance out the struggles with Brexit of building a car in UK and exporting to EU.
Man why can’t Ford figure out transmission tuning? That 10 speed has been excellent (bordering on ZF levels of good) in every GM product I’ve driven but it’s constantly the sore spot in Ford products. Apparently it’s an absolute disaster in the S650 Mustang, to the point that lots of reviewers are saying it’s a deal breaker for the Ecoboost. It was also a shit show in the last gen Ranger and the Explorer as well.
Why don’t they just get GM on the phone and ask how they’re programming it? There’s no excuse for a transmission that’s great in some cars to suck mondo ass in others. But then again, Ford uh…finds a way.
It’s seriously embarrassing. I have a Ram 1500 with the ZF 8 speed which is so smooth you never think about it… and then I drive my parents’ F150 (V8 + 10-speed) and some of the shifts are inexcusable for a modern powertrain (I think it’s 6-7 while accelerating gently on flat ground, you just get a noticeable clunk). Another family member has an Expedition with the 3.5L turbo V6 and the same 10-speed, and they’ve had the thing just start shuddering when trying to start from a stop on a moderate grade (vehicle wouldn’t budge)… they had to go back into park and then drive and then they could pull away. Both of these vehicles have less than 50k miles and are no older than MY21. Concerning they can’t get this right on two of their best selling and most profitable models. They have some big hills to climb to improve their quality image.
Automatic transmissions have come so far from the old two speed days, but so many lately are worse than others that I can’t keep track.
It’s gotten so bad that for my casual shopping, any used full sized automatic vehicle should have a ZF, and even then only an 8 speed or maybe a 6 speed. I’m sure there are other good automatics out there, but I can’t know them all. This still leaves a lot of interesting models to choose from.
I’m not entirely sure it’s just a programming issue. My 2012 had an output shaft sensor failure and it behaved just like what’s described here. Happened right after we bought it used with about 85k miles on it. My kids were driving it the first couple of times it happened, and at first I didn’t believe the symptoms they were describing. Then it happened to me too. It’s a bit unsettling.
Of course the dealership’s 90 day power train warranty was a load of crap (“if it touches oil, it’s covered” but they argued the sensor doesn’t touch oil, never mind the fact that they had to drop the tranny – the sensor is on top – and empty it to complete the repair) but I guess it was a great way for them to add $1,000 to the price of the vehicle.
This recall issue is with the older 6 speeds which are generally pretty good. This also isn’t a tuning issue. IIRC what happens is when the TCM looses signal from the output shaft it sticks the transmission in 1st gear, which is obviously bad at highway speeds. The recall reprograms the TCM to drop the transmission into 6th if signal is lost. The 2010-2013 trucks had this recall a while ago but for some reason they excluded the 2014 trucks until now.