Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! Since you all were game to play along with yesterday’s scenario, I have another one for you today. This one’s easier, and less illicit. But first we need to make our getaway:
Looks like stealth beats brute force. A couple of you pointed out that the minivan’s sliding doors provide a huge advantage in that you can already be on the move before the door is completely closed. I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right. And slipping quietly into traffic and disappearing is the way to go, I feel. Just leave it in the Costco parking lot by the airport, and Tiny will take care of it.
Today, we’re shifting gears, literally. For today’s assignment, you need to find a vehicle in which to teach your car-crazy sixteen-year-old nephew Francis to drive. The poor kid’s parents drive an Outback and a RAV4, both beige [Editor’s Note: I think this should be silver, since silver is the new beige. Beige would be cool now. – JT] , and he’s been begging you since he was twelve to teach him how to drive a stick. It can’t be easy going through high school with a name like Francis, so you feel for the kid. Driving a manual these days is like having a superpower, and you want to grant him that power, but the only manuals in your current fleet are a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe with a disassembled engine, and your beloved Callaway Twin Turbo Vette, and there’s no way you’re letting him learn on that. So it’s time to go shopping.
There are two schools of thought on learning to drive a stick: You can start him out with something cheap and easy to drive to increase his chance of success and ramp him up to the good stuff once he gets the basics down, or you can throw the kid into the deep end with something difficult, and when he masters that, know he’ll be ready drive anything. (My wife and I both learned by this method when we were young: me in a Jeep Scrambler and she in a Trans Am.) What’ll it be?
2009 Ford Focus – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Odometer reading: 136,000 miles
Runs/drives? Currently being used as a commuter
Full disclosure: This car is already sold. Annoyingly, the ad disappeared in the half-hour between me downloading the photos and sitting down to write this. Since I’m only using it as an example of a type of car that could be used to teach someone to drive a manual, I’m not concerned enough to go looking for a replacement. Lots of small cars are around with manuals, lots of them cost around two thousand dollars, all are dead-easy to drive, but apparently you have to be quick on the draw to get one.
You could do a lot worse than a Focus as a driver’s ed car, though. It has a good stout Mazda-derived Duratec four-cylinder, an easy-shifting five-speed, and a nice tall driving position that affords a good view of things. It’s not overly powerful, so young Francis can’t get into too much trouble, and this one comes pre-dented, so no worries about altercations with lamp posts or shopping cart corrals in whatever empty parking lot you take him to.
And for $2,000, you could just give this thing to young Francis, and instantly become the coolest uncle or aunt ever. And it will set him up nicely for the Mustang or BRZ or what-have-you that he’ll spend too much money on in college.
1999 Ford F250 Super Duty – $3,900
Engine/drivetrain: 5.4 liter single overhead cam V8, five-speed manual, RWD
Location: Prior Lake, MN
Odometer reading: 244,000 miles
Runs/drives? Just fine
But maybe, just maybe, you need a truck anyway, and it occurs to you that if you bought a truck with a stick, you could kill two birds with one stone: use it to teach young Francis, then keep it for doing truck things. You know he’d be into it – telling people you learned to drive a manual in a Focus or whatever is one thing, but learning in a Super Duty? That’s a story to tell.
There is something wonderfully charming about a full-size standard-cab truck with a stick. That two-foot-long gearshift rising up over a bench seat, with its long ka-chunky throws, and that stiff but super-responsive clutch feel just seems right. It’s what all pickup trucks were always meant to be. This truck features what I think is still the “good” version of Ford’s 5.4 liter Triton V8, backed by a ZF five-speed manual, in this case powering only the rear wheels. Sitting up in that bench seat, rowing that big lever back and forth, will make young Francis feel like a god.
But maneuvering this big beast in tight spots isn’t easy, especially when you’re still getting the feel of a clutch. The kid has big dreams when it comes to cars, but a monster like this might be too frustrating for him to start on.
Everyone who learns to drive an automobile who is physically able to do so should learn to drive a stick. I don’t think any of my colleagues around here would disagree with that, and I doubt many of you would either. Even if you never own a car with a manual, knowing how to do it, even poorly, teaches you more about vehicle control than just about anything else. As stickshift drivers ourselves, it is up to us to pass on this knowledge whenever we can. But we must choose our tools carefully. Would you rather start ’em off easy, or just go for it?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
If the SD were a diesel, that would seal everything up nice and easy. As it is, its down to a coin toss.
My truck is sick right now, and I have a little manual car already, so I’d probably default to the F250.
I often use the same hypothetical scenario when checking out manual transmission cars. I don’t know a kid to teach to drive, but rather I am that “kid” because I never had an opportunity to drive a stick. I’ve often considered picking up an old manual beater just to try to learn myself, but that seems like a hassle (just getting it home not knowing how to drive it, finding a place to park it when I’m not practicing, and then reselling it when I’m done). I wonder if any driving schools offer manuals. I would be open to paying for professional instruction like that. I called one near me a long time ago and inquired about it, and they laughed at me, so it sounds unlikely.
I’m not sure what to tell Francis here. He’d probably like the great big truck better than the little economy car, but if I’m understanding the rules of the game here, he wouldn’t actually get to keep the truck (the way the article is written, the truck would stay with the teacher to “keep doing truck things”). So I’d probably go with the Focus so that he would actually be able to get around himself once he’s learned how to drive it.
I’m going to go against the popular sentiment here.
I’ve driven a manual Focus of this generation. Despite being no newbie to 5 speeds, it was annoying to drive. The clutch engagement point was about one hair’s with and you were treated to a break dance if you missed it. “Oh, but that was probably one that was all beaten up,” I hear you say. Nope, it was newer with mileage in the teens of thousands.
On the flip side, old trucks with manuals are EASY. The engagement point, especially on a higher mileage example is very forgiving and typically in the lower half of clutch pedal travel. The high torque at a lower RPM makes it easier to get moving without over-revving and the weight of the truck gives you enough momentum to keep rolling in case you have trouble shifting or finding the next gear. As a bonus, if you put it in the rhubarb, the BOF is going to be more robust.
Easy win for the Eff Two Fitty.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who found an old pickup easier to drive as a manual. The first time I drove a small manual car (a Civic, if I recall correctly) was a shock for the very reasons you mention here.
OK. The clear answer is Focus. But I WANT the F-250.
The Focus is the spiritual successor to the car on which I learned to drive a stick (an ’84 Escort), so that was my pick for young Francis.
My old man was of the opinion that one should be thrown in to the deep end to learn to swim. Here is how I learned to drive stick:
When I was nearing the age I could get my temps (around 15 if I recall correctly) we had a horrible swb Chevy conversion van and an extended cab Ford ranger with a 5 speed. I naturally preferred the ranger and wanted it as my first car, it wouldn’t be but that is another story. My father figured he better teach me to drive the right way, so the law requires 50 hours of driving my old man required 500. I literally drove everywhere our family went. But in prep for this he decided I needed to learn to drive stick.
One afternoon he took me to the end of our driveway which is on a small hill and leads down to a rather busy street. We swapped seats and he said if I burned up the clutch he would kill me and bury me in the back yard after i swapped in a new one. If I rolled in to traffic I better total the truck and die because if not he was gonna kill me, bury me in the back yard and use the life/auto insurance to buy a new truck. Then he opened his door and walked to the house.
Now I knew the gear pattern from watching him and shifting while in the middle seat a few times and had watched his footwork plenty but watching and doing are very different things. I’m happy to say I’m still alive and own only stick shift cars 20+ years later. Sadly the truck was sold while I was in college round 2 still riding the original clutch at 150k, I miss the old girl often but continue my affair with other Ford trucks.
Secondary story: I loved that ranger so one time after breaking rules I was forced to drive the Chevy conversion van as punishment for my misdeeds…to go see my girlfriend (now wife). That shit had a bed that folded down in the back and did better burnouts than the ranger. Either my dad was wingdad of the year or just real fucking dumb. Never complained when we went through two sets of rear tires and rear shocks in two years, he blamed it on towing the boat three times a year.
Straight into the deep end! Super duty, only one passenger and the mileage will make Frankie think twice about going on unnecessary trips, and repairs are part of life! Sorry kiddo, but you’ll appreciate it when you’re older.
I can’t be the only one wondering: How is a 24-year-old Minnesota pickup with that many miles not rusty up to and including the windshield? That said, the Focus is the right pick.
I would give Frank a few driving lessons in an automatic. Once he figures out the basics, I would buy that F250 to teach him how to drive a manual transmission. From my experience, it is far easier to drive a manual transmission vehicle with higher torque (within reason, of course; a Viper is probably more difficult to drive than a Civic). My first lesson would involve Frank learning to get the vehicle moving without touching the gas pedal. Once you figure this out, the other tasks involved in driving a manual transmission (shifting, starting on hills, etc.) aren’t difficult.
A Viper actually is easier to drive than a Civic.
I learned to drive a stick on the day I bought my first New car, a 1982 Honda Prelude. To get it home from the dealership, my Dad handed me the keys and got in the passenger seat to talk me thru it. It was a white knuckler trip for both of us, but a great learning experience. I vote Focus for Francis since I couldn’t have imagined getting that truck home
The Focus is the right choice. It can make it’s way through any parking lot and remember young Francis is a new driver so not only learning how to drive a stick but learning to drive all together. That F-250 would just be too big to get around with a new driver.
The advantage of the F-250 is that you can just find a big empty field and teach that spoiled brat Francis away from all other traffic that isn’t a John Deere.
As for easy v. hard, I learned stick in a Triumph Spitfire. Absolutely no torque. You had to give it gas while letting the clutch out to get moving, so it definitely taught me the footwork. Fortunately the area around our home was reasonably flat, so I got comfortable before having to deal with hills. And I learned to handle hills w/o cheating with the handbrake.
I learned to drive stick in a US Army M35 6×6 “Deuce and a Half” Truck. It took about five minutes.
I knew stick in theory, from reading about it, but I’d never actually driven one. I had ridden a Honda Trail 70 motorcycle with a manual 4 speed transmission one summer when I was about 11 or 12 years old.
It was somewhere around the second or third week of basic training. When the Drill Sergeant demanded that anyone knew how to drive stick to step forward, I did. Nobody else in my company moved a muscle.
I bullshitted my way through the first few gear grindings and a stall as “getting used to this thing”. Within five minutes after that, I was double-clutching, and after figuring that out, everything went smoothly. The monster torque from the turbodiesel, the inch thick clutch and the indestructible transmission papered over a lot of mechanical sins that day.
Once I got used to the Deuce, the Drill Sergeant asked me how long I’d been driving stickshifts, and I lied and told him something about driving manual tractors, cars and trucks all my life, since I was a kid.
Within a few weeks, I got assigned to be a driver for the Commanding Officer. In the Drill Sergeant’s words, it was because “you make this thing feel almost like riding in an automatic”.
Get the Super Duty Truck. It should easily take the abuse. And after that, most manuals will seem like child’s play.
Agreed.
I voted for the Focus
It’s nice to see tan interiors in both of them though 🙂
Okay, how did I trigger moderation this time? I don’t see any obvious reason.
Me too
Me three. As a paying member it would be nice to not be moderated. Somehow the bots are still getting through.
We are in final testing of the new commenting system, which uses Google CAPTCHA and should fix a lot of this. We relaxed our current system’s spam filter and it was great for a while, but they just squeezed back in so we turned it back up. Sorry! Goal is to have the new system up next week or the week after.
Just yesterday Sheryl was telling me all about how she makes $85/day working from home but then her comment disappeared!!!
That’s fine, you can probably just ask Mercedes to forward you the info she was trying to tell you.
At this point I’d rather just have all the bots. I know how to scroll past them.
You’d think with how much these bots make per hour, they could become paying members too.
Same here. As a paying autopian, I demand my inane rants be heard immediately.
The truck wins for me, I learned on something similar and if you can drive that any other is easy.
Plus I am on the hunt (a few months) for something like this as a dump runner and backup vehicle.
I agree that starting on a tough one like the truck is best. It’s kinda like learning about motorcycles by starting on a Harley. Anything else is easier by comparison.
As someone who learned stick on an old Chevy Stepside, I found that I was unprepared for a clutch pedal that didn’t have six inches of travel before it engaged and a much shorter shift. A 1999 Ford won’t be that bad, but I’d still say that there’s a difference here. I say ask the kid what he wants to drive stick for. If it’s for offroading, towing, or the like, go for the pickup. If he wants it for sports cars or race days, go for the Focus.
I was teaching my husband how to drive stick, first we tried on my Honda Insight Gen 1 and he was struggling at every stop. We switched to our 1973 Super Beetle and he became a master quickly. I wonder if the truck will be like the beetle, because the clutch feels more mechanical, less isolated, and the torque helps to move the car from a complete stop. When the clutch is super soft, its way more complicated, you spin the wheels or don’t move at all
Just want to note that you have an absolutely adorkable car collection.
Buy the Focus for Francis.
For a suburban homeowner, maybe the truck. While $4k seems like a lot for a 200k+ truck, it does look clean at least from the photos. Plus regular cab + long bed is what I’d want for weekend warrior duty. 4WD would be nice, but it seems like someone would think that is worth $10k in this market.
This feels like the right answer. I think that truck is a great value for someone, especially if it really runs well and has had all the work that it says (new tires, brakes, clutch, etc.). The Focus will better to learn on. If you can master the stick on a lower hp car, you’ll have no problem later on with anything else. It’s also much harder to damage a clutch on a lower hp car. Either will work though. I learned to drive in a full size van, and my dad’s thoughts were that if I got in an accident it was better to be in a bigger vehicle (better for me at least). I learned to drive stick on a 1960 MGA because it’s what we had. The most challenging time I had in a stick was my college roommate’s Ford Escort that I think had about 60 hp. I haven’t had my driving age kids (18 and 20) out in the MGB yet, because I feel it’s too small for today’s traffic unless you have a lot of experience and are a very defensive driver, but eventually I hope to take them to some less populated areas and teach them.
For Francis I have to go Focus. Relatively safe, not overpowered, should be decently reliable, easy to drive. Once you learn a manual you should be able to adjust to different ones quickly. Learning on that truck then going to the car would still be an adjustment.
Now if I was picking for myself I’d go F250. Do I need a truck? No, I can always borrow one from work or worst case there is a u-haul not far from me. But would I enjoy driving that poorly handling truck? Yep.
The truck should have more low-end torque making it less likely to stall and thus making it easier to learn to drive stick.
This exactly. Mark is backwards on his understanding of what makes learning to clutch easier. A big window of figuring out the vehicle is struggling without it dieing is ideal to adjust technique.
The goal is to learn stick. Let him learn not running into things in Mom & Dad’s cars.
I would say the weight difference might mitigate most of that inferred benefit. 340 ft lbs of torque, but an 8,800 lb truck, versus 136 ft lbs and 2588 lbs. The truck may have a super low first gear though, so it might make it easier, but wouldn’t you rather they learn on a difficult to drive stick so they can easily transition into anything.
The truck does not weigh 8800 lb, that is the GVWR. A regular cab, RWD, gas F250 is going to weigh barely 5000 lb.
OOps, yep, you are sort of correct, the curb weight of a 5.4 Super Duty in 1999 shows 5480. still almost twice what the little Ford weighs.
Teaching, coaching, management, they are all about improving people’s skills and then putting them in a situation where they can succeed. Soon Francis will have to steer with one hand instead of two while the other hand and part of his brain previously allocated to other driving tasks will be trying to deal with shifting. No way he should be managing a heavy truck when that happens.
Living in an area with a lot of wealthy neighborhoods around it, I could not agree with you more. Parents don’t need to give their high schoolers 6,000 pound battering rams to drive while they stare at their goddamn phones.
The Focus wins here because the F-250 is overpriced. That and the aging truck will bankrupt poor young Francis between repair bills and horrendous gas mileage.
Learned to drive stick on a big heavy truck. The torque in a 300 straight 6 was enough to damage some probably weak motor mounts, which led to a destroyed radiator. MN truck with v8? First time he pops the clutch, something is gonna break. Grab the little 4 banger, it’s more forgiving, and more disposable.
Hey Prior Lake!!!!
Anyways, learning to drive stick is much easier in a vehicle with low-end torque. A RWD truck from the rust belt is kind of silly, but for the purpose of teaching someone, its the way to go.