Tesla has tried to make it seem like the company has a supply problem. That it isn’t making enough cars. I don’t think that’s what’s happening here. I think the problem is that Tesla is making too many cars. Given that the company is throwing big discounts out there on the Model Y, I think I’m right.
You know what other car company is probably overproducing one model? Dodge. The perennially oversupplied Hornet is, yet again, one of the cars atop the list of cars that are moving slowly.
There’s been a lot of hubbub over Tesla maybe canceling its small car, and Tesla’s original CEO says that’s a ‘shame’ if it’s true.
And, finally, maybe GM’s Cruise robotaxis are going to be back on the road, just not in California.
Tesla Discounts Model Y By Up To $5,000 As Inventory Increases 1,117.5%
We noted that, in Q1, Tesla managed to get its EV sales crown back from Chinese automaker BYD. We also noted that part of this was due to Tesla’s sales falling less.
At the time, Tesla blamed arson and production lags for the downturn. Specifically, Tesla said:
Decline in volumes was partially due to the early phase of the production ramp of the updated Model 3 at our Fremont factory and factory shutdowns resulting from shipping diversions caused by the Red Sea conflict and an arson attack at Gigafactory Berlin.
Was it, though? I mentioned last week that I was a little skeptical and now I’m Columbo-at-th-end-of-an-episode-of-Columbo skeptical.
Let’s look at the numbers, first, via Tesla-tracking site Tesla Info, which has this helpful graph:
The greenish line is Tesla Model Y global availability, which is up 883.5% year-over-year according to Tesla Info, with 8,803 Model Ys in global inventory. In the United States, the numbers are worse, with inventory up more than 1,000% year-over-year, and 76.3% quarter-over-quarter.
If demand was strong for the Model Y then, one would expect, inventory would follow normal seasonal fluctuations. If there was a new Model Y, maybe, some adjustment would be expected.
None of that is happening. There’s just more of them.
So Tesla is doing what any rational car company would do and is offering more than $5,000 off of existing Model Y inventory. You can go search for yourself. As you can see in the screenshot above, a Model Y AWD Performance is getting $5,450 on the hood, bringing down the price close to $40k after a federal tax credit.
If you want a super good deal, the base Model Y RWD is about $4,700 off for certain models, which is under $35,000 when the tax credit is in play. That’s a great deal. A Model Y is not the EV that I want, but if I was in the market right now for an EV it’s hard to argue with the price.
It’s not clear how much of this is price sensitivity, overproduction, people not liking Elon Musk, increased competition, et cetera. It’s probably some mix, but producing Model Ys as this clip doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m not alone in this opinion.
My old pal Craig Trudell over at Bloomberg has some good analyst commentary backing up the same:
The difference between the number of vehicles Tesla built and sold in the quarter “dispels the notion that 1Q deliveries were somehow supply rather than demand constrained,” Ryan Brinkman, a JPMorgan Chase & Co. analyst who has the equivalent of a sell rating on Tesla stock, wrote in an April 3 report.
Brinkman cut his price target for the shares to $115 from $130 and lowered estimates for first-quarter revenue and earnings per share. He now projects Tesla will report a $1.3 billion free cash outflow, rather than a more than $300 million inflow, due to an expected record increase in finished goods inventory.
The Model Y is aging, it needs to be updated, even at $35k it’s still pricey. Was the Cybertruck worth it? Would Tesla be better off with an updated Model Y?
America Has A 443-Day Supply Of Dodge Hornets
The Dodge Hornet is also one of those vehicles I think is overproduced but, unlike the Model Y, I think it’s likely overpriced.
As previously reported, the Dodge Hornet is a troubled vehicle that fits awkwardly in the current Dodge lineup. There’s a PHEV version, which is neat, but the car has long had a difficult time finding its footing.
Is there some good news for Stellantis? Sales in Q1 of 2024 were up to 7,419 models, which is an improvement over the just-shy-of-5,000 Hornets sold in Q4 of 2023. In December, I pointed out that, according to the monthly Car Edge list of fastest/slowing selling cars, there was a 517-day supply of Hornets.
According to the April update, there’s only a 443-day supply of Hornets. That’s an improvement! The average selling price is also slightly up, though this might not be reflected in the actual transaction price.
What else is moving slowly? A lot of Stellantis products, as per usual. The Mach-E remains on the list, in spite of improving sales and discounting. The x2 is being rolled out to BMW dealers, so this might be a temporary condition as old models are being pushed out and new ones arrive.
The Audi SQ8 is probably a reflection both of the vehicle’s price/age and, I think, the fact that Car Edge lumps in the e-tron EV models.
Martin Eberhard Calls Cancellation Rumors A ‘Shame’
If you weren’t paying attention to the car industry in the mid-aughts you might get the impression that Elon Musk created Tesla and was the company’s first CEO. He did not and was not, although he deserves a lot of recognition for morphing the company into what it is today.
The original CEO was actually Martin Eberhard. He doesn’t seem to be directly involved with Tesla at the moment, but he’s got thoughts.
Martin Eberhard was speaking at the HSBC Global Investment Summit in Hong Kong. On Friday, Reuters reported that Tesla was cancelling its long-promised inexpensive car that investors had been counting on to drive growth.
The decision represents an abandonment of a longstanding goal that Tesla chief Elon Musk has often characterized as its primary mission: affordable electric cars for the masses. His first “master plan” for the company in 2006 called for manufacturing luxury models first, then using the profit to finance a “low cost family car”.“We’ve both read in the news, Tesla delaying or eliminating their low-end Model 2 programme, which is a shame for them, but it’s a sign that China has a chance to really spread there,” Eberhard said.
Cruise Might Be Back In Phoenix
GM’s Cruise robotaxi unit is damaged goods at the moment as the company tries to recover from a series of incidents capped off with the dragging of a pedestrian in San Francisco.
The company chose to suspend all of its robotaxis in the United States following the incident, but the company is reportedly trying to get back into the game according to a Bloomberg report, via Automotive News:
The company is set to announce and begin the testing as early as Tuesday, according to two people with knowledge of the matter. In recent months, Cruise has been in talks with officials in 20 metropolitan areas where it previously ran cars or had started mapping in preparation to run them. Phoenix is a natural place to start as Cruise already has vehicles in the area and city officials were open to the idea of its return, said one of the people, who asked not to be named as the plan isn’t public.
Cruise spokesman Pat Morrissey said in an email that the company “had not set a timeline for deployment. We are in the process of meeting with officials in select markets to gather information, share updates and rebuild trust.”
That seems quick to me, so we’ll see if something is announced today.
What I’m Listening To While Doing TMD
Jeff Buckley can almost exclusively be enjoyed posthumously because he died tragically young of a freak swimming accident. This is such a jam and yet, still, tinged with the bitter taste of what could have been.
The Big Question
Will Tesla just, like, keep making Model Ys? How much discounting will Tesla have to do in order to correct this issue?
I wouldn’t buy a Tesla at any price, and I know there are quite a few folks who are of a similar mind to me. Don’t like the looks, don’t like the quality, don’t like the cult.
I just leased an Ioniq 5 SE Long Range RWD for $239/mo for the next two years while all this shakes out. Maybe the Rivian R2 will be out by then.
I get that BMX is discontinuing the X2, but how is the average selling price $2K less than the Hornet? They are both 2 liter turbo four crossovers, base MSRP for the X2 is $37,575, base Hornet is $32,995. Is it trimflation?
Autopian is now doing sad headline engineering to try and get clicks. When absolute numbers are not impressive you use % increase over time. And if the baseline was unusually low then the higher the % difference. If you go from 2 to 8 that’s only a difference of 6…meh…but also a huge 400% increase! They suggest some staggering oversupply of model Y’s yet in the very next article that lists the # of days of supply of various cars, the model Y does not even appear. So obviously there is no massive oversupply. How long before we start seeing ads for weighted blankets and diet pills on this site? Has nobody learned their lesson from the stratospheric fall from grace of Jalponik?
Hey Tom!
Ummm… not quite. Do you think that Tesla really went from 2-8 Model Ys? The difference is actually:
That is a lot of vehicles! It’s not clickbait, they are really outside of historical norms.
That CarEdge list gets its data from dealer-based sites, which means that Tesla wouldn’t show up, so the two lists aren’t really comparable without knowing Tesla sales day data.
While many sites do the click bait crap I never saw Autopian do it. But can you trust Mr sarcastic? Maybe I should change to Mr Fantastic?
Bring back Eberhard, dang it.
Anyway, as for today’s flush: I have a couple friends who love their (admittedly foreign-made, German-market) Model Ys, but the long-term test car at work was…sometimes a problem child, LOL. Especially with usability things—everything on a big screen is annoying!—and a few build quality things that would be mortifying from an established company: https://www.cars.com/articles/how-was-the-build-quality-on-our-model-y-445732/
(and the full blog roll, in case anyone’s curious and shameless group-promotion is OK: https://www.cars.com/news/long__term-test-cars/?page=1)
The upside was that service appeared to be ON IT with their issues, and really easy to work with.
I think Tesla is going to have to back off on production, though. That’s a lot of leftovers and they’ve got to realize that they have more competition now—like, a lot more. Those competitors also offer things people want, like less polarizing interiors, less polarizing execs, different focuses (more cargo! there’s even a three-row SUV now!), and more recent updates to styling.
The Hornet desperately needs a new cheaper base trim. It should have FWD and a detuned version of the 2.0T that runs on regular, not premium like currently, and do so with minimal engineering (just remove the driveshaft, transfer case and rear diff to get FWD, and don’t use a different engine). Then, drop some extra features like rain sensing wipers and auto windows and you’ll end up with something that starts just under $30k.
Is all of that crap standard issue on these things? Especially the premium fuel part? If so, what in gods name were they thinking???
I originally thought that it was a dual octane engine where it could accept regular for lower numbers, but there’s no indication of that on their site anywhere.
To be honest I never heard or at least remember the new introduction of the Hornet. Old version poor quality why name a new suv after a crap car like the Hornet. Wasn’t that Hornet an AMC?
Correct. The AMC Hornet was pretty crummy, and an outdated collection of old off-the-shelf parts. The Hudson Hornet was something much more remarkable during its time.
Naming the new Hornet “Javelin” would have been smarter. Even Spirit or Eagle would have been better than a fat stinging bee without a perception of personality.
What it needs much more desperately than that is electronics that function. The Hornet is full of bugs.
You can’t forget the “X” factor in Tesla sales.
That’s when Elon says something on X that makes people stop buying his cars.
Yes, they will keep making Ys. They have to. Their entire story revolves around growth. They will continue full production and discount their way out of the issue. Margin will tank but investors won’t care because it’s all about topline growth. Remember, they weren’t profitable without credit arbitrage until a few years ago. Heck, their last capital play isn’t even that far behind them. So it won’t doom them.
Now, unless Tesla can find some sort of game changer (and they are trying desperately) this may all end with bang. But so far they’ve still been able to manage to convince investors they are the golden goose everyone has wished for.
I think it is only a matter of time before people realize what color those eggs really are. Probably not tomorrow, but these sort of stories all seem the end the same way.
Without the Y, then Elon just has S3X, which would offend Mormons and Evangelicals and people like them.
“A Model Y is not the EV that I want, but if I was in the market right now for an EV it’s hard to argue with the price.”
That’s exactly why my neighbor, a retired civil engineer who usually keeps his cars for close to 20 years, just bought a Model Y. He got sick of his 10 year old Subaru Forester doing Subaru things (I believe you are familiar with this phenomenon Mr. Hardibird), and so he ditched it for a Model Y. In his words, “It was so cheap, I couldn’t not try it and see how it goes.”
I don’t have charging nearby so I can’t get a Model Y, but it would be hard to take it off the list.
I don’t think I’d rely solely on public charging. That burned (froze?) a lot of people in Chicago this winter.
What is Cruise using for their cars now?
Is it the new purpose-built Cruise Origin, or the modified Chevy Bolt (Cruise AV)?
Regarding the Model Y… I disagree that they are making too many. I want Tesla to keep cranking them out so it will further drive down the price of used ones as I’m looking to get a newer car in the coming months. And my preference is a used Tesla.
So they introduced a $5000 price cut on new ones in inventory? EXCELLENT!!! That will further drive down the prices on used ones.
Regarding the Dodge Horny… it’s a nice car, but the MSRP is Very Optimistic. Here in Canada, the base price is CAD$43,515. That’s for a “base” GT model that comes with AWD. For that kind of cash, I’d want it to be a hybrid.
So not only is it expensive for what it is, they also need to offer lower trims with FWD and get the base price to below CAD$30,000 if they want to sell these in volume.
And most people don’t need AWD.
I sure as hell don’t.
On top of that, you have a bunch of leftover 2023 models that dealers and Stellantis are not discounting enough to get out the door… like this boring-white model that they still want $42,000 for
https://e-shop.dodge.ca/en/t1?paymentMode=cash&vin=ZACNDFAN1P3A05453&dealercode=C3188&pid=168dd79e-2424-4e62-a94e-1f967e4cbdd2&vehicle_type=new&affiliateId#vehicleInformation
It seems to be that Stellantis and their dealers are still living in a fantasy world where pandemic pricing will go on forever.
Regarding Eberhard and the Tesla Model 2… Elon Musk himself said the rumor was essentially bullshit and that Reuters has really gone downhill. So who are you gonna believe… the guy running the company or an ex-employee regurgitating a BS rumor?
Regarding the Big Question: I’m pretty sure Tesla will keep cranking out Model Y units. Musk has previously stated that it makes sense to crank out more product at a lower profit margin as it will increase services and other revenue in the long run.
How much discounting will be done? That’s hard to say. I’m gonna guess the answer to that is ‘as much as is necessary’.
And with Tesla and BYD cutting prices aggressively like this, a lot of the smaller/marginal players in China (and there are lots of them) will go under.
Need =//= Want
Maybe a sales breakdown on AWD / FWD on those vehicles where it’s offered as an option may show us better detail (albeit most cars only offer FWD on low-trims, where as soon as you want a desirable option that AWD becomes mandatory).
As for it’s pricetag: you could argue that it’s a discount Alfa. But I don’t think people see Dodge and Alfa Romeo being cross-shopped, so unlikely that it makes sense at all.
I would argue most people looking for a low cost Dodge probably doesn’t even know what an Alfa Romero is, let alone care how much they are related
“Need =//= Want”
Correct. But the fact is, you can’t even get a FWD version of the Dodge Horny at all.
Plenty of people out there would rather spend less on a FWD model/trim.
Agreed. I’ve family in both camps, one who wants the cheapest SUV (FWD and all), and another who insists that AWD is needed in case it rains/snows/ices/cloudy/sunny outside.
> So who are you gonna believe… the guy running the company
Nope
So you’re gonna believe the ex-employee repeating BS that has been debunked at the source?
That’s daft…
I’ll believe a professional carnival barker with schizophrenia sooner than Musk.
If Tesla needs a quick refresh for the Model Y, they could simply start in the paint shop. My neighborhood is saturated with Y’s and 3’s and they’re all in the same five boring colors Tesla’s been using since they were released.
In keeping with Tesla’s new branding they could even call their cool new colors things like Conspiracy Theory Green or Invasion Orange, etc.
Okay I’m kidding about the names. But not the colors. What an easy change to bring some interest back to the old cars.
You could swap “Tesla” for a lot of brands.. bring back weird colors!
“If Tesla needs a quick refresh for the Model Y,”
Apparently a refresh is in the works for 2025.
And +1 on Tesla bringing in some new colours. I think they should start doing a ‘colour of the year’… a yellow one year, orange another year, then a green, a purple… etc.
I can’t imagine that would be hard to do and would drum up more interest.
like Fiestaware. a new color every year
Agreed. Maybe some tasteful stripes or two-tone designs. Even the car transport trucks going up I-5 loaded with Teslas look boring.
“Maybe some tasteful stripes or two-tone designs”
And at least one tasteless Screaming Chicken design!!!
My daily is having old car issues and the SO wants a Tesla. I’m tracking prices because a MYP is awfully compelling with the cash on the hood. I’d be on the fence but darn if that car wouldn’t meet our anticipated needs for the next 10 years just fine. The internet has it that ditching the heavy 21″ staggered wheels for lighter 18″ wheels (with cheaper tires that have actual sidewall) shaves a tenth off the already bonkers 3.3 second 0-60. If they come down another $3k for $45k out the door, that would be a fine deal. The upside of the Y being an, ahem, established design by now means that common parts like brakes, filters, wiper blades, body panels and control arms are not unobtanium like 5 years ago.
Wait, wiper blades and filters??
I go through a set of wiper blades a year or so. Same with cabin air filters. Living in a state with four seasons does that. So available replacements are high on my list.
Sorry, I meant those are hard to find for Teslas?
Not sure. That said, having more choice is better since it keeps prices lower. With the popularity around the world, there are lots of choices.
Seems like Tesla people are coming to realize that Tesla is just another car company which seemed logical from the start. They are still beholden to high overhead costs and the need for a constantly updated product (meaning hardware as well as software) or the consumer will move on to whatever is “in” at the moment. They were able to be trendy and have inflated margins for a while because there was big demand and not many viable alternatives, but ultimately they weren’t going to live up to the stratispheric stock value which was priced as if they were going to become the dominant manufacturer while maintaining their margins.
If I put on my tin foil hat and look at what a mess the Hornet has been I have a bit of a theory. Stellantis needed a small cross over for Dodge and one was not in the pipeline so they did some quick badge engineering of the Tonale. Alfa was very angry that Dodge would have a version of their vehicle that would undercut the pricing and Dodge would benefit from their hard work. Seeing this Alfa worked to to tank the Hornet quality and execution, the result is a somehow less reliable car than what Alfa is known for.
I think if Alfa tried to do anything they’d end up making it more reliable on accident
Tesla cranking out Model Ys even though there are plenty of Model Ys kind of reminds me of our dog we got at age 2, that was malnourished, just had puppies and felt she needed all the food all the time. She’s 13 now, a healthy weight, gets treats multiple times a day and breakfast and dinner, but still ‘needs’ all the food all the time.
For years Tesla had backlogged orders, especially when the Model Y came out, so it’s like they can’t fathom not needing to build more Model Ys, they just have to, that’s their biggest hit, “What do you mean we don’t need more Model Ys?”
Sounds like a good time to pick up a Model Y and trade it to a desperate Stellantis dealer for a Hornet. Then trade that Hornet… for another Tesla Model Y. Rinse, repeat, and right there is a perpetual motion machine for free-car energy!
After driving both, I think one would find it hard to let go of the Hornet, since the other car is a Tesla.
I’m curious to know how people in other countries feel about Musk. Sure, there was the big dust up in Germany that probably pissed off some people in Europe, but do most people in Europe/China/South America or anywhere else they sell really give a shit when he tweets about US things like the southern boarder?
I dunno, but I can’t imagine that there is the same level of venom in other places at the same intensity of moths to a flame found here.
Maybe some of the international readers can chime in?
Most Canadians that I’ve spoken to about him think he’s nuts.
But we’re highly influenced by American media so it’s probably no surprise.
Yeah, Canada doesn’t count, lol
Awe. The story of our lives, eh
I suspect the average American doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about Elon Musk. The people who hate him are extremely vocal. I find him generally unlikable, but my strongest opinion about him is indifference.
It would be interesting to hear international perspectives on the guy, but my suspicion is that most of them are similarly indifferent.
In my part of Europe, people tend to react negatively both to anything associated with Nazis/extreme right-wing politics and blow-hard narcissists making stupid statements. People find it hard to understand that our long-term friend and democratic ally the USA actually voted someone like Trump to be president, and generally find Musk to be an equally repugnant personality. But Tesla cars still hold some allure as one of the first well marketed BEV’s, so large numbers of consumers are content to ignore the connection between Tesla the car and Musk, the embarrassing prat.
Except Trump was the LOSER by the popular vote. Bigley.
Our system is screwed, and does not appear to be improving.
Because of this fetus’s born after 9 months of pregnancy continue to die in abortion clinics.
I’m Australian. He used to rile me up but then I stopped worrying because at the end of the day what he or any other attention seeker says on social media basically has zero effect on me. I’d say it used to be enough to put me off the cars but I have 2 friends with Teslas and they are very happy with them, I just don’t personally like the styling or interior layout myself and thus, not ever going to buy one I don’t really need to worry about being misidentified as a Teslarati at any time. I think here that the aforementioned Teslarati have toned down a bit the last few years as many other options have come onto the market because whilst Teslas are very popular here, lots of people are buying things like BYD Attos and Seals and Dolphins as well as MG4s and Ionics, Polestars and KIAs EVs too so its not as if people aren’t choosing the alternatives. Basically he is irrelevant but we have plenty of people who think he is jesus too they just aren’t as loud as they used to be.
Tesla could’ve funded the cheaper EV if Musk wasn’t so reckless with the Cybertruck. All he needed to do was replace the back half of a 3 or Y with a pickup bed. It would’ve cost much less to make, and it would’ve printed money.
Of course, Elon’s shitty childish behavior is also a reason to stay away from Tesla, and their poor build quality too.
Cybertruck aside, it’s truly baffling that Tesla hasn’t followed up with a more traditional-shaped CUV.
It makes a decent amount of sense to me. The CoupeUV body shape’s improved aerodynamics gives it enough range to be competitive, and the hideous body shape has been in fashion in the luxury market (see GLE/C Coupe, X4/6, etc).
The current Y has 260-310mi of range, I’d estimate it to fall as low as 230-280mi with a traditional shape, which is Toyota bZ4X territory. Add in the costs of additional tooling (especially in the context of Tesla using the FCA strategy of selling the same thing for cheap off of paid off tooling), and you have an unviable product.
Four years ago Simone Giertz et al showed how to do this – and apparently she still has and uses the “Truckla” they built. It seems like if a small team of engineers had watched their video they could have had something rolling of their assembly lines within a year.
At a certain point people will realize an old design is old. I’m sure Tesla is continually updating their cars, but it is nearly impossible to tell what model year some of their cars are. Heck, I struggle to differentiate the Y from the X and sometimes those two from a 3 at night from certain angles. Talk about corporate styling.
I’ve been in a few Tesla vehicles and while they are technologically interesting, they kinda come off as a collection of parts from dissimilar sources that are assembled with kit car attention to detail. Over time the assembly has gotten better, but the styling is getting stale.
Maybe the Model 2 won’t be needed if the Model Y continues to be overproduced and discounted.
I actually feel that Tesla not releasing cars by model year is a selling point. It seems to me that the little model year changes are about having visible markers with which we can shame the Joneses into keeping up. (Or, maybe it’s because BMW’s grill seemed to get larger each & every year). I would be fine with models persisting until updated/face lifted in the normal course of product development.
>I’d love to hear the other side from Australian readers here
It cuts down on having to discount last year’s vehicles when the new MY arrive.
I think it’s early days yet but Volvo sold the 140, 240, 244 etc for decades and they still sold okay in latter years as they still offered a good enough car for many people. I think Model 3, Model Y will last at least 10 years and people will still buy them.
Unless they’re side by side, I can’t tell a 3 from a Y.
And I’ve seen Tonales but no Hornets. Is that weird?
Not really weird. If I had the choice of nearly two identical vehicles, I’d get the one with the better perceived badges. Alfa Romeo > Dodge. At least when it breaks down I can say my exotic vehicle is just being exotically unreliable.
Dear Autopian,
I write to you today with a letter of the gravest concern. I hope it finds you quickly.
Why is it that milk always runs out partway through the most absorbent of cereals? It’s always Chex, or Life, or in my own worst case scenario, Frosted Mini Wheats. It’s never flakes, like Raisin Bran Crunch, or puffed corn types, like Kix. It is always and ever that particular breed of cereal that requires the utmost and thorough immersion, lest you end up grinding wheat fibers between your teeth to make flour, like the earliest of mills.
In what I hope is a helpful note, Cap’n Crunch did recently receive approval for use from the SAE as a substitute for walnut shells in media blasting applications, though caution with aluminum components is advised.
Yours,
Dessicated in Durham
The answer is ball bearings. It’s all about ball bearings these days.
Desiccated,
Grape Nuts have toppled Cap’n Crunch from the media blasting throne. While uniformity of particle size is not their strong suit, they perform quite well—excepting, as you note, on aluminum, where some pitting may occur.
I believe you’ll find that many cereals rely on capillary action to hoover up the milk.
Cheers,
Befuddled in Bangor
Every single one of those Car Edge posts here has that Ram 2500 entry where supposedly only a few thousand are for sale.
There are 23,000 new 2500s on cars dot com alone. How can you be taken seriously as a data provider when you make such an elementary error month after month???
They are kind of annoying on Tiktok as well. They are constantly saying the sky is falling and doomsdaying everything. I’m not saying they are wrong about it but the hyperbole is a little too much to take.
The sky is not falling, but some of the blue paint is chipping off. When it gets bad enough to need to be repainted, word is that it’s going to be a different color.
Hey! Excellent point and I’d previously pointed out that there was some weirdness with their Ram number. I sent them this and they revised/removed it. Thank you for pointing it out.
Thanks for that. Let’s see what they come out with next month.
Most car buyers aren’t paying too much attention to how well designed (from reliability standpoint) and built, but I wonder how much the Hornet dissatisfaction from Hornet owners is affecting sales now.
The price and styling is what would keep me from getting one even it it wasn’t from Stellantis and has so many apparent issues.
I’m surprised they aren’t changing over the Model Y to an updated version to match the Model 3 yet. I think that’s the way they can solve their demand issue. That or a new CEO who doesn’t actively repulse a large portion of the EV-buying public.
I’m in the market for an EV, but I don’t want a Tesla, even if it’s a good deal. Not just because of Musk, but because of the controls, too. I have a similar problem with most EVs on the market right now, and I blame Tesla for leading people to believe that EVs should have fewer buttons. That said, I don’t think the screens are hurting sales. The number of people who have told me that it’s super easy to get used to (sure, if you’re willing to look over at the screen, since there’s no tactile feedback) or that you’ll do everything via voice commands (please no)…I can’t see any reason to believe a large portion of people are avoiding screen-based controls.
I agree with those who told you Tesla controls are easy to get used to. It took me maybe 2 days for the controls of my Model 3 to become intuitive. The controls I routinely use (turn signals, radio volume, and cruise control/autopilot) use physical switches, so I don’t end up needing to use the touch screen that often. The only time I need to use the touch screen during routine driving is to control windshield wipers. This is less bad than it sounds, though. You press a button on the stalk and then the options come up on the screen. It isn’t ideal but, again, it is easy to get used to after a few drives. It is worth renting one for a few days if you get a chance.
While Tesla controls aren’t that bad, I won’t make any attempt to defend Musk’s generalized unlikability.
It may be adaptable but putting windshield wiper controls on a screen should be illegal.
I don’t disagree with that statement at all. Again, it is not as bad as it sounds, but it is still not ideal. No sense causing a distraction during moments of adverse weather. There are automatic wipers but they don’t work all that well.
When Tesla finally starts doing outbound marketing, that would be the perfect tagline: “Tesla: it’s not as bad as it sounds”
As ridiculous as it sounds, that might be a reasonable starting point for their advertising. Maybe word it slightly differently, though.
I bought my previous EV (a Nissan Leaf) because it was a normal car but powered by electricity instead of gas. I always liked the styling of the Models S and 3 but was resistant to buying a Tesla due to the quirks and the lack of physical controls. I never seriously thought about buying a Tesla until Hertz dumped their fleet and offered a three day rental prior to purchase. I’m not sure a typical test drive would have been enough to overcome my concerns.
When I’ve had injuries, I’ve been able to get used to doing things to accommodate them. That doesn’t make it convenient. I cannot see myself buying a vehicle with screen-based wiper controls.
And I’ve driven a couple things with automatic wipers and I want manual control.
To be fair to Tesla, I also ruled out the Mach E because I am not willing to dig through menus to select driving modes. Switching between eco, normal, and sport (or whatever a manufacturer calls them) should be a button or switch. So far, the EV6 has the most acceptable setup of the EVs I’ve considered, but I have had enough bad luck with Kia that it’s tough to justify, too. The Blazer EV is a reasonable setup, too, but it’s bigger than I want to go.
Obviously, if you want physical buttons to control everything, the Tesla (and other EVs, as you said) aren’t right for you.
For me, stuff like switching driving modes doesn’t matter, mostly because I don’t think I have ever felt the need to switch driving modes. I don’t use most features in modern cars, so that may influence my thoughts on Tesla controls. Controls buried in touch screens are perfectly adequate if you never use those controls.
I know other people have different preferences, though.
“And I’ve driven a couple things with automatic wipers and I want manual control.”
We at least agree on one issue. I have driven several vehicles with automatic wipers and they universally suck. Other automated things like lights and climate control work well enough in my Tesla that I don’t feel the need to manually control these functions, though.
I’ve decided that what I can live with on screens includes climate (while I prefer not to use it on screen, I do leave it on auto most of the time) and settings I’m unlikely to change while driving.
I have found that automatic high beams work well enough to use, but I still want to be able to quickly manually turn on my lights in conditions where visibility is worse than the light sensor is going to sense. So I definitely want a physical switch for lights to come on. Lights and wipers are absolutely non-negotiable for me.
I don’t switch to sport mode that often, but it’s a baffling decision to me to have it in a menu. Could I live with it? Maybe. Do I want to spend money on a car with such a weird choice? No.
I’ll probably settle for a car with heated/ventilated seats on a screen control, but I’ll be annoyed. I only want heat for a little bit, and I want to turn it off quickly while driving. I prefer a button, but it’s something I can deal with about once per cold-weather drive. I do tend to just leave ventilation on, so that’s not a problem
I’ve thought a lot about this. The EV6 has controls I can work with (the shared HVAC/radio controls are weird, but workable). I could live with the BMW setup. The Blazer EV was alright, though too big and I didn’t care for the built-in Android as much as Android Auto using my phone and apps. Could probably get used to it.
The Nissan, Ford, Tesla, VW, Rivian, and Hyundai setups rely too much on touch-sensitive controls for me.
At this point, I’m likely looking at the Equinox EV or the BMW i4, because I have had bad luck with Kia. Either way, I’m waiting for the right lease or purchase deal.
Hard agree on sport mode. I love that my car is a switch. The whole point of sport mode (for me) is to quickly have a lot of fun on an empty on-ramp or similar. As soon as i’ve had my fun, i just flip it back to normal because sport mode changes the shift points so high it burns Way more gas in normal driving.
Also the i4 comes in that gorgeous green that BMW has so consider some random internet stranger to be endorsing that choice.
Absolutely the color I want. Though they also have a good blue and a decent orange, so I feel spoiled with all the choices.
People are good at adaptation—that’s why we’re such a successful invasive species—and they can get used to all kinds of suffering and stupidity. Some people even seem to enjoy the treatment.
One of the main reasons I don’t like excessive screens and multiple layered menus in cars is because I look at screens and interact with computer programs, every single day, as a data analyst. The last thing I want to do is get in my car and have to deal with more screens, more menus, more artificial light in my face. If the main features (HVAC, seat heaters, drive modes, wipers) are off the touch screen, I could probably deal. But it just sounds like my idea of a personal hell to have to constantly interact with a screen in one more facet of my life. And I despise voice controls in general, I don’t like devices listening to me, and have always kept voice assistants turned off on my phone (we don’t have Alexa or anything). I’m not saying these sentiments apply to most or maybe very many people at all, but that’s my hot take.
Same. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours writing software. The last thing I want is 1) a screen 2) a mostly software-operated car. I know what goes into writing software and I want as little as possible in a car.
This. I sit at a black desk looking at two big screens for 38hrs a week for work. I don’t want to go sit in a car that feels like work. I don’t think the stark cool glare of a screen is luxurious.
Matt, it’s not just your opinion that the Hornet’s overpriced. It’s hidden in plain sight in the data, an average selling price of $41,905 compared to $39,836 for the even slower-selling but not as drastically oversupplied BMW X2, while the Hornet is intended to compete with similar-size Toyotas and Hondas.
And whether fairly or not I tend to file it in the same bucket as the Chevy Trax whose starting MSRP is a whole 20 grand cheaper. It’s not – it’s much more powerful and with standard AWD vs FWD only – but with closely timed launches, similar size and (actual!) color selections, and similar old-guard Detroit badging, I can’t be the only one making the association which the Hornet comes off worse for since it’s more car, but not twice the car.
I’m right there with you on the comparisons. And I don’t think it’s entirely unfair. In the crossover space, size is probably more important to a lot of buyers than performance. In the PHEV space, efficiency is pretty important. And the Hornet just doesn’t compete on cargo capacity or efficiency, regardless of configuration.
It just doesn’t offer anything that truly feels like it justifies the price, even if you are looking for a performance crossover.
I would also like to note that all of this and the poor reliability combine to make me very sad. I was kind of excited about it when they announced it, and it’s just…not great.
The Hornet is ridiculously overpriced for a small crossover from Dodge, and I think they’re about to make the same mistake with the new Charger, which is rumored to start $20,000 higher than the 2023 Charger & Challenger. Dodge is not a premium brand, they can’t command those kinds of prices on ordinary, mainstream models
to be fair, the Hornet is available in a couple of actual colors, but not like the Tonale.
Closer to 10 grand starting for the base GT vs a Trax, but your point stands as the Hornet price adds up fast with options to easily be 2x as much. Not even extravagant luxuries, I think just a power driver’s seat requires GT Plus trim and that’s > $37k.
If you are someone that wants some power and not just your standard CVT crossover, that’s right up against a CX-5 Turbo.
Even if you’re in a CDJR showroom, there’s the Compass – it’s on the pricey side too, but also has the 2.0T with less power, but better mileage, plus a bit more room and the Jeep image.
I don’t really keep track of how Tesla’s cost aside from briefly getting curious about how much Model S’s cost, but $40k for a minivan that goes 0-60 in 4.4s and has a 330mi range is not bad at all, especially when you factor in how stupid expensive BEV’s are. I really need Musk to begone from Tesla.
I feel like, if Elon Musk is bored of being the CEO of a car company, he could always announce a sudden need to “spend more time with his family” any time he wanted to. He has enough money to do whatever the hell he wants to do instead for the rest of his life, there’s nothing set in stone that says he and Tesla need to be joined at the hip for life
Yeah but that’s bringing logical thinking to a party of narcissism and ketamine.
Which family, though? Doesn’t he have like 17 children from 21 women?