Tesla CEO Elon Musk has made it clear for some time that the future of his company is not in building regular cars. That’s been the genius of Elon Musk’s version of Tesla from almost the beginning. Initially, this meant building electric cars when almost everyone else said they were decades in the future. Now it’s robots, self-driving taxis, and artificial intelligence.
That’s what Musk says is coming, but it’s mostly not here yet, and until it is here Tesla is still mostly a carmaker. In fact, Musk said something yesterday in an all-hands with employees that made me realize something: Tesla is now the ‘legacy’ automaker that’s long been the target of his ire. The core of what made Tesla special or unique as a car company is largely not there anymore.
It’s easy to look at the news and assume it’s just the politics that are hurting Musk. They certainly aren’t helping, but if it were just an issue of politics then the issue might easily be fixed. I don’t think this is easily fixed. As I’ve said before, when you remove the huge benefit-of-the-doubt given to Musk you have to evaluate Tesla as an automaker, and there’s new data from Edmunds that shows Tesla’s cars are more replaceable than they’ve ever been.
Maybe Foxconn and Mitsubishi will replace them? The Taiwanese company didn’t invent the iPhone, it merely made gobs of money producing them. Foxconn seems to be planning a similar path with Mitsubishi.
It’s Friday, so let’s end this last Morning Dump of the week on an up note: If you live in England you might be able to buy John Entwistle’s big ol’ Caddy at a surprisingly reasonable price.
‘I Can’t Walk Past A TV Without Seeing A Tesla On Fire’ Elon Musk
Musk hosted an all-hands and Q&A with employees yesterday and, as usual, it was mostly a rah-rah affair seemingly designed to excite investors as much as actual employees (Tesla is historically good about providing shares to employees, so the lines are probably blurry in that crowd).
If you follow Musk on Twitter/X you know his skin can be as thin as a Motel 6 pillowcase, so the questions weren’t particularly probing. This doesn’t mean that Musk didn’t acknowledge the huge drop in share price or all the vandalism surrounding the company. He did make a mention of it, somewhat randomly in between points.
“So… Teslas will be worldwide. So, overall, you know, it’s good. If you read the news, it feels like Armageddon. I can’t walk past a TV without seeing a Tesla on fire,” said Musk. “Some people…. listen, I understand if you don’t like our product don’t buy it, but you don’t have to burn it down.”
That’s not unfair. Destroying someone else’s property is bad. Not only does it hurt a random person you don’t know more than it hurts Musk, if that’s your aim, it’s also probably not as effective as actual protesting, encouraging your pension fund to divest from the company, or asking lawmakers (if you live in California) to exempt the company from being able to sell carbon credits to automakers.
What Musk didn’t mention was why people might feel this way. To pick out something entirely random from the last 24 hours, there was a New York Times report that Elon Musk would get a briefing that laid out how the United States would fight a war with China, an absurd thing to give someone who desperately needs help from China and has so far acquiesced to China’s current government. President Trump has since called this “fake news,” which is a giveaway that this may or may not be true.
Musk ended his interlude by saying: “Like this is psycho, stop being psycho, OK… So we launched the new Model Y!”
That’s quite the transition.
Getting to the point I made in the headline, Musk also mentioned that Tesla was likely to sell its 10,000,000th car in the not-too-distant future. “That’s a lot of cars man,” exclaimed Musk, who acknowledged that building and selling cars is a difficult business. When Tesla hits that number it’ll be quite the accomplishment and prove that it is about as established as an automaker can be at this point. But a “legacy” automaker? I know that’s a charged term so hear me out.
Lamborghini was founded in 1963; is that a “legacy” automaker? Probably. There’s no set age for what is or is not a legacy automaker. Tesla might be a young company when compared to, say, a Renault or a Ford, but the company is newer than a bunch of startups like Lucid, Rivian, and this version of Polestar. It is the legacy electric carmaker, no doubt, but in this new era, I’d argue that it’s also just a legacy automaker.
Why? Because “legacy” was a term practically invented to pit Elon Musk’s Tesla against old car companies like Ford, GM, and Volkswagen. It was, more than anything, a bit of a ‘pejorative’ that implied that those automakers weren’t capable of catching up with Tesla by building a product as good or desirable. But now it’s Tesla that’s on its back foot in China as it faces competition from companies building more interesting products — ones that outprice Tesla and even offer free self-driving that’s built specifically for the market. In a younger market like China, Tesla is definitely a “legacy” automaker.
In the United States, it’s a little different, but many of the things that gave Tesla an edge (ADAS, direct-to-consumer sales, OTA updates, Supercharging) have been matched or even surpassed by the competition. I’ve spent the last week with a Cadillac electric car that can go over 300 miles on a charge, drive itself hands-free on the highway, accelerate at nauseating speeds, and even looks cool. All at a price that’s competitive with Tesla.
Oh, you want more evidence that people think they don’t have to buy Teslas anymore?
Tesla Trade-Ins Now Approaching Record Levels
While the share price seems to have stabilized in the $225-$250 range for the moment, here’s a bit of data for you, from Edmunds, that shows the politics of this all does seem to be working against the automaker. For the first half of March, MY2017 or newer Teslas represent 1.4% of all vehicles traded into traditional dealers, up from 0.4% in the same period the year before. This would be a record for Tesla if it holds, and surpass last month’s 1.2% turn-in share.
Note: This isn’t people sending Teslas back to Tesla to get a new vehicle, nor does this cover people turning them into Carvana or similar companies. These numbers are people who are, for whatever reason, over the idea of owning a Tesla so they’re turning vehicles in for something from an automaker that still has dealers.
Here’s something from the Reuters report on this that caught my eye:
“Brand loyalty is becoming a bigger question mark as factors such as Elon Musk’s increasing public involvement in government, Tesla depreciation concerns and its increased saturation in major metro areas leave some longtime owners feeling disconnected from the brand,” said Jessica Caldwell, Edmunds’ head of insights.
[…]
Tesla’s sales likely fell 10% in February, hurt by declines in its Cybertruck pickup, Model 3 sedan, and Model Y SUV, separate estimates from market research firm Cox Automotive showed on Thursday.
“These shifts in Tesla consumer sentiment could create an opportunity for legacy automakers and EV startups to gain ground,” Caldwell said.
Jessica Caldwell is a pal and also one of the smartest analysts in the game, but I think this data points to Tesla being a legacy automaker now. If someone can easily swap one of its cars for a Ford Mustang Mach-E or a Hyundai Ioniq 5 and not feel like they’re losing out, that competitive advantage is gone. There is no moat. And with most automakers offering NACS-style adaptors that play nice with Tesla Supercharging and more, like GM, offering hands-free driving, what Tesla can offer that other automakers can’t has shrunken dramatically.
Even before the robots and robotaxis arrive, it would be silly to call Tesla a traditional automaker. That’s going too far. A legacy automaker, though, I think is fair. It’s older than roughly 500 Chinese EV startups and at least two versions of Chrysler.
You can’t ruin a legacy if you don’t have one, and — while there are plenty who have recently become fans of the brand and love its CEO — the numbers imply that quite a few people think that’s exactly what Musk is currently doing.
Foxconn Will Reportedly Make EVs For Mitsubishi
Hon Hai Precision Industry Company, better known as iPhone producer Foxconn, has reportedly finally gotten what it’s long wanted: An agreement to produce electric cars for someone else. Specifically, Foxconn landed the Mitsubishi deal that Honda is rumored to have wanted.
Per Nikkei Asia:
Shares in Mitsubishi Motors rose significantly on Friday following Nikkei Asia’s news that Taiwanese electronics manufacturer Foxconn is finalizing a deal to collaborate with the company on electric vehicles, in what could be the latest in a series of partnership initiatives by Japanese automakers to boost their electrification plans.
Mitsubishi’s shares hit 465.8 yen at one point in the morning, up 21.4 yen, or 4.8%, compared with the previous day’s closing. The shares ended the day at 443.1, off 0.3%.
The Taiwan-based iPhone assembler aims to expand its presence in the EV industry, with plans to manufacture EVs for Mitsubishi, Nikkei Asia reported Thursday. Mitsubishi is believed to be looking to sell these EVs in the Oceanian market from 2026, and then expand to other markets.
This doesn’t preclude Honda or Nissan from making a deal with Foxconn, of course. A big appeal of Mitsubishi is that it performs well in Asian markets that Honda doesn’t necessarily reach, so starting in Oceanian markets sounds reasonable.
Check Out John Entwistle’s Big Black Cadillac
Auctioneers H&H Classics will have an event on April 9th and if you’re in the area, might I suggest buying The Who bassist John Entwistle’s 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Series Seventy-Five Limousine? The car, which is rumored to be the inspiration for his song ‘Big Black Cadillac,’ is estimated to fetch between $20,000 and $35,000.
That seems like a good price to me. Here’s how H&H describes it:
The car was imported by John Entwistle from America during The Who’s heyday and became part of the legendary bass player’s entourage, with period photos showing it parked outside John Entwistle’s house and also in the grounds of bandmate Keith Moon’s estate.
The rare model is finished in black with black leather upholstery and appears to be substantially original. It is now offered for sale from a private collection.
John Markey, motorcar specialist at H&H Classics, said: “This American classic has lived a fascinating life and if only cars could talk then I’m sure it will have plenty of tales to tell.
Even without the rock connection, this is a handsome car.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I had to do it, here’s The Who performing “Magic Bus,” though I’m sure some of you would have preferred “Pinball Wizard.”
The Big Question
What is a ‘legacy’ automaker? How would you define it?
Top photo: Tesla
– Smash up a Tesla
– Tesla owner gets it repaired at a Tesla dealership, or using Tesla OEM parts
– Elon gets payed
Smart.
They key is to destroy it beyond the point where it can be repaired.
This would work for non-dealership cars. If someone burns a bunch of Teslas at a dealership, doesn’t the dealer (and therefore Elon) get an insurance payout?
Theoretically, if every Tesla were totaled, their owners would get the insurance money. The smart folks would sell them while they could. The rest would become uninsurable. It would be nice to see everyone who owns Tesla stock lose every cent they invested as punishment for supporting the xxxxxxx prick.
I’m pretty sure Tesla is self insured, although they may have a stop loss policy.
Really I don’t see any way this hurts Tesla other than their own insurance company, and even then it might be worth the loss.
For the Model Y at least it makes room in the inventory for the new Model Y which supposedly rides better, handles better, has better seats, is quieter, uses less parts (more gigacastings), etc.
For the Cybertruck it makes them a write-off.
I’ve seen leftists comparing it to people destroying Bud Light cans after their scandal, but people are not burning down their own Teslas, graffitiing their own Telsas, or otherwise damaging their own Teslas 99.99% of the time, they’re damaging either innocent people’s Teslas or Tesla’s Teslas which really doesn’t hurt Tesla in a way that insurance won’t make them better off than they were before, but it does hurt innocent people.
Maybe Tesla’s insurance premiums go up in the short term, but they’re unlikely to feel it.
And before anyone calls me a Tesla stan, I was in the market for a BEV and I specifically did not buy a Tesla, I bought a Leaf, also in the past Tesla screwed me out of the SR M3 I preordered by substituting it with a software limited version of a SR+ M3 which has a completely different interior than what I ordered, all without personally informing me or any of the other reservation holders of the change.
That all being said this is being done by a few bad actors who likely have a lot of mental issues, the smart people who want to hurt Tesla are doing so by hurting Tesla’s wallet via divesting of them personally and getting pensions and such to divest from Tesla.
The amount of cheering for the vandalization and or destruction from seemingly regular people is pretty concerning though.
Yeah I agree, hurting innocent people doesn’t really help you garner support for your cause.
It is. I feel Matt could come out with a stronger statement than “it’s bad. BTW here’s why you should feel it’s justified”.
Matt, on the off chance you read this- you do need to make it really, really clear that regardless of political differences, violence is absolutely not acceptable. Because you are coming across as pretty mushy on that subject. Very uncool.
Bro this country was founded on violence over political differences.
There’s a strong performative aspect to it. You blow up a bunch of Teslas, normies are going to think twice about buying one of their own.
It’s far more about sending a message than about breaking down that specific car there.
Off topic . . . Someone is selling a 2018 MB E400 4-Matic Wagon near by. 96k on odometer, dealer serviced (w/records), one owner, selling because they got a new wagon. Asking $25k, which is higher than Edmunds private sale value by a few K and I’m well aware what repair costs are for a MB. Still, the heart wants what the heart wants. Talk me off the ledge, Autopians.
If it was in the teens I’d say go for it…but $25,000 is steep for a German luxury car with nearly six figure mileage. For that much money you could get a lot more German car depending on how brave you’re feeling. That’ll get you a decent enough Panamera, used 7 series or S class, etc. I love wagons as much as the next guy but I don’t love the wagon tax and if you’re already rolling the reliability dice you can get something way cooler at that price.
…you’re welcome? I guess?
Sound and sensible, which begs the question, “Why are you on the interwebs?”
Counterpoint, DO IT!!!!
And never look back. And/or offer 4k less cause you know the 100k service is coming? Or it’s already done?
No parachute for you!
try the third seat first to make sure you fit in it 😛
That’s almost enough money to buy the John Entwistle’s Cadillac, so why not ignore the Benz and get into some classic rock limo instead?
I would say that Tesla should stop making vehicles, and pivot to the Supercharger network and licensing their software to other companies who are better at building things, but that would only encourage more of this FSD nonsense
“pivot to the Supercharger network” – he wholesale fired the entire department in a hissy fit last year. Obviously Elon doesn’t care how valuable that part of the company actually is.
Telsa still has the best charging network in the country, and the majority of automakers have yet to actually produce cars with NACS even though they formally adopted NACS.
Tesla’s mobile service beats that of any other large automaker at the minimum.
Their UI for their infotainment systems is the best of any automaker (not that I’m a fan of infotainment systems).
Don’t get me wrong, once the major automakers actually adopt NACS then it’ll be a much more level playing field, but even then there are a ton of dealerships not EV certified and in general the dealership experience is much more of a PITA than mobile service, their UI will still be trash compared to Tesla’s, and a ton of their current offerings are just shittier Tesla Model Y knockoffs (Mach-e for example).
What automakers need to do is actually start selling electric cars in North America with NACS. Then they need to stop copying Tesla’s designs and or making them even more technophilic (like the Mach-e’s lack of physical external door handles). They should make good cars that happen to be electric (an electric car does not have to be technophilic) and they need to get their dealerships EV certified.
Teslas don’t work for everyone, and even for those that they do lots of people are refusing to consider them for non-car related reasons (which automakers should capitalize on). The Cybertruck isn’t a truck, because it can’t really do Truck things relative to its size and weight which ties into my argument below
Ford: Make an electric Maverick FFS, if they can keep the 2000lbs payload, the 4000lbs towing, give it NACS, and make it range competitive with a Leaf while selling it for under $35K there would be a ton of people and businesses lining up to buy it, even if it’s built like a “compliance” BEV using the existing Maverick Chassis.
There’s a real good argument for electric ‘mini Trucks’ as they are unaffected by the footprint rule so they can actually be made small, they don’t need massive battery packs as BEV’s are not well suited for long distance high speed hauling/towing, but in town at slow speeds BEVs are great at hauling/towing. Smaller Trucks mean less material overall, smaller frontal area meaning less drag meaning lower battery size requirements, etc. For businesses the applications are near limitless for local use.
I agree that Teslas are still still super competitive in the EV space, tech wise.
That process is already happening; it takes time for the manufacturers to switch over. I believe the 2025 Ioniq 5 is one of the first to have native NACS connectors. At least five automakers have will produce NACS EVs in 2025 with the remainder having announced plans to.
One thing buyers should do is get an EV capable of “splitting” the pack 400V/800V so it can access the full charging speed on both Level 3/3.5 Superchargers that are limited to 400V and the newer stations that support 800V (mostly CCS but soon SC as well). As it is now, a wide variety of voltage and amperage limits for both EVs and charge stations create a “how fast will it actually charge” question even for the newest non-Tesla EVs that have NACS ports, like said 2025 Ioniq 5.
Chevy did that with the Bolt, and currently with the Equinox, but they don’t exactly capture the imagination
I think automakers are trying to make EVs extra fancy, is because given the choice between two identical cars, one as an ICE and the other a BEV, mainstream buyers would overwhelmingly choose the ICE
The last two non-Tesla EVs I’ve driven came with NACS adapters and I’ve recently charged at a Tesla supercharger with an Equinox EV. That part is basically true now. By the end of the year most of those competitors will at least have adapters.
I’ve done a few EV road trips, in both teslas and non-teslas. Opening the supercharger network and getting adapters out to people is going to help a LOT
On a recent road trip I took in a friend’s EQS SUV from San Fran to Los Angeles, every EA station had a 10-15 minute wait. Meanwhile, across the road, I could see 50 supercharger dispensers
When I did a SF-Las Vegas trip in a Model S, it was more or less like stopping for gas every 2 hours for 15 minutes and we didn’t even have to think about it because the car’s route planning worked very well
It’s a double whammy for Tesla. I’ve been saying for the past several years that there will be a point where the aging lineup would become a problem, and now it is. Just look at China. They aren’t as concerned about Musk’s role in US government, but sales are sliding there too. It makes sense, Teslas are no longer the newest thing, and there’s now a dizzying array of new EVs from their home market.
I suspect we are getting to that point now in the US and Europe as well. There’s just more competition now than there was even three or four years ago. And the competition is catching up in terms of range, features, self driving, and pricing. Plus, they have new designs for those who have to have the newest thing. Tesla could have had an advantage here, but they squandered it on the Cybertruck. Musk claimed they’d sell 250-500k a year, but the most recent recall of nearly all Cybertrucks sold so far is for approximately 45k vehicles. I don’t know if they’ll ever sell 250k of them, let alone 500k.
And then there’s his meddling in US politics. We all know what he’s up to, I’m not going to enumerate everything here. But he’s making himself toxic to a very wide part of the market, particularly the segment most likely to buy EVs. I just don’t see your average Trump supporter buying an EV, not when the right wing media ecosystem has been drilling into their heads that EVs = bad for years now.
For my money, My Generation really shows of how great John Entwistle was as a bass player…
And that Cadillac is kind of perfect for a bass player, coming from someone who has mastered the art of slipping a Fender Precision into the trunk of an NA Miata.
I think you can officially be counted as a legacy automaker when your CEO is close-enough buddies with the FBI Director, Attorney General, and others to get vandalism of your cars counted as domestic terrorism. (Yes, I know setting a vehicle on fire isn’t vandalism, but…spray-painting a Tesla is in fact being cited as an example of a terrorist act by the various US agencies focused on pre-crime).
Anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before someone is imprisoned for 15 years of slave labor in El Salvador because they made Tesla look bad after they trusted FSD not to crash into a school bus?
Setting a 2006 Altima on fire: thank you, move along
Setting a Tesla on fire: felony
(I saw an Altima on fire today on my way home from work, but it was the other lane, and maybe it wasn’t an Altima, there was 100 feet of leafless trees in the way, and a lot of smoke, forgot to add this before)
Three questions:
Thing is Tesla’s stock has been so crazy for so long,(stockmarket value 100 times assets) that the company is more like a software company than a car maker.
Remember a Renault comparison of its price/asset ratio, compared to Teslas a few years ago, that “legacy” share holder just shook their head.
Then they nearly went on an IPO for part of the “mobility” part of the company trying to sell it as a tech company, before wiser heads stopped it because they realised everyone was laughing at them.
Great for Tesla shareholders when it lasts, but when it goes bang, they will be left with assets equivalent to a washer. As will the car owners, don’t expect they will get any new software….
Tesla has always been a meme stock. Its market cap was in no way representative of its actual value as a manufacturing company. People seem to be waking up to that fact, and the short sellers are (belatedly) making bank.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Apple was originally known as the “other computer” company, then for awhile as a music company with iTunes dominating the scene, and now basically just a cell phone company.
Telsa apparently wants to pull off the same trick – it started as a car company, but now it wants/needs to reinvent itself as a robot company. (Along with Optimus, I’m including the self driving technology here, where the car basically becomes a single-purpose robot that drives you around. Someday. Eventually. After they start using a better sensor suite…)
I honestly have no idea if their robots are going to be that much of a hit. To me, they’ve kind of got “Segway” written all over them – lot of potential to be transformative, but will people really care?
But hey what do I know?
I think the issue is they’re focusing on humanoid robots, which I struggle to find an application for. Robots work best when they’re built for a specific purpose. Sure, you could build a robot that can run a vacuum cleaner. But it’s much easier to build a robot whose only job is vacuuming, hence the Roomba. When you look at an automated assembly line, the robots don’t look like people. They are built for a purpose. And I think we are a long way off from a humanoid bot that can, say, keep your house clean and do your laundry for you. If you really want to show me your robot is capable, I want to watch it fold a shirt. Or clean a toilet.
Automakers must all be drinking the same thing, because a bunch of other automakers (Hyundai, Mercedes, BMW, etc.) are all testing out humanoid robots in their factories as well
Boston Robotics. I remember working in Waltham watching out a window while they tested an early horse
And even that makes more sense, if they’re working in a factory they’re likely programmed to do certain tasks. But building one that’s useful outside those pre programmed tasks? I have doubts. At least, not for the foreseeable future.
Sure seems like the only reason to build a humanoid robot is to do human things with it. Which is to say, he wants to build sexbots. He’s exactly the kind of guy who would.
Elon’s “genius” move was setting Tesla up along the lines of a Silicon Valley business. In that sense, he took a completely new approach to a very established type of business and was wildly successful in doing so (at least initially). Not sure he knows how to settle down and get things stable for the long haul, though.
Taking that approach to government, though, is completely fucked up. “Move fast and break things” is fine when all you’re tossing into the toilet is VC funding. It’s not real appropriate when it’s biomedical research funding, veteran’s benefits, and other stuff that people depend on for day-to-day life that’s being shitcanned. Especially when you remember that the corollary to “move fast and break things” is “fail early and fail often”.
Americans are going to die because of Trump and Musk messing with social security and medicare.
It bothers me how many people seem to be okay with this.
You made the correct choice with Magic Bus.
I’m looking forward to Tesla being a legacy carmaker along the lines of Studebaker and Pontiac.
Hey now, let’s not drag Pontiac into this
Oh, I love Pontiac, I’ve owned a few and still have one. It naturally popped into my head when I was thinking of defunct car brands.
Okay good. We don’t take too kindly to derogatory comments on Pontiac ‘round these parts but you’re commenting on them as someone who’s pure of heart.
We had many Ponchos in the family:
Me: 80 T/A, 88 GTA, 98 Formula M6/Hardtop, ’00 Formula A4/T-Top (still own).
In the 90’s Mom had a TranSport “dustbuster” minivan, and my younger bro had a ’98 Bonneville.
If you’re not using “Big Black Cadillac” itself (which to be fair is a bit of a boring tune), I would’ve thought the vehicle website would have gone with [removes sunglasses] “Magic Bus.”
Strange how people just randomly decided out of nowhere, and for no reason at all that I can think of, that they hate Teslas, Elon. If only there was some factor or event that we could point to to explain this bizarre change in behavior. Alas, we may never know.
This is your brain.
This is your brain on drugs.
Any questions?
You gonna eat those eggs?
I guess there are other options:
If you have enough money, you can make your midlife crisis everyone’s problem.
All of the above?
How are you genuinely so bad at detecting satire. Like it’s blowing my entire mind.
It seemed that @Data detected your satire well. It would seem the brain on drugs in question is in Musk’s head.
His follow-up comment would seem to refute your claim. I feel like we’ve slid so far backwards in terms of media literacy that the Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast would cause an actual panic again.
To be clear, both my comments were directed at Elon and his change in behavior and were in no way directed toward you. I’m not going to disparage people on this site. I apologize if my attempt at humor was misinterpreted.
Always does.
https://radiolab.org/podcast/war-worlds
Hey look, Joe Piscopo tried to teach me about humor, but it just wasn’t happening. I just flew in from alpha-ceti V and boy are my arms tired.
Maybe not everyone is old enough to have lived through the 80’s and 90’s and have had watched that or this commercial at least 10,000 times.
Prediction: Tesla is on its way to being a charging network; the premier charging network at that; that once built cars.
The Tesla charging network in Quebec is peanuts compared to the others (who are all linked for payment).
Nope. Not because they won’t fail at making cars but because the charging network makes basically nothing and never will. Gas stations don’t make money selling gas, and you can’t fill up your ICE car at home for 25% of the price
The only value the charging network had was to help sell cars.
I think they’re making some dough over the access fees they’re selling to other automakers to use their network. They have first mover advantage still in that realm. If the uptime, ease, proprietary standard, and availability/prevalence of Supercharger locations can be maintained and even expanded and improved upon, they’ll be challenging to catch without massive investment and yearslong commitment from a rival.
So, that’s worth something and can be a source of profit. Maybe not the techbro 10X bullshit, but a nice, steady business with returns enough to live comfortably without trying to be an emperor among ruins you wrought.
There might be a tiny amount of money in the licensing/access, but it would be so small that it wouldn’t have any meaningful impact on their overall status. Especially as the ranges of cars improve, retail chargers will become less valuable, not more. Plus, if there is a significant tech improvement to charging the Tesla network becomes worth almost nothing.
Legacy automaker: If you cars are old enough to “age out” into scrapyards, you’re a legacy automaker. Tesla qualifies IMHO
Traditional Automaker: You make enough cars to require crash testing? Tesla qualifies IMHO
Honestly, I think I just feel a bit embarrassed with myself. I am embarrassed that I overlooked the obvious flaws for the great things being done. I am embarrassed that I didn’t realize I was being lied to. I really can’t say I hate. But, I know am frustrated with the whole situation, and now realize that I think my other feelings are embarrassment. Any anger I feel is just a byproduct of those feeling manifesting in my brain. When I think about things rationally, I don’t feel or see anger. Bewilderment, yup, that is there too.
You’re a legacy automaker once you start to build boring cars?
His cognitive dissonance on why people are burning Tesla to the ground should be stunning. Given that he’s a billionaire addicted to ketamine it’s not so surprising at this point. He’s been given illegal authority to destroy all aspects of the US federal gov’t that affects every day normal people, while stealing everything he’s able to use. He’s still receiving billions from the very thing he’s dismantling as well. Every company he’s involved in needs to be systematically destroyed in the same way he’s doing it to me as a US citizen. He can either take his billions and fuck off or he can meet his consequences.
Preach! I saw the clip of him wondering why people don’t like him even though he’s “only trying to help”. I was like “are you fucking kidding me?? How clueless can you be?”
Also, to the guy who said empathy is a weakness, boo fucking hoo. I hope it gets to the point where he can never set foot in public again, that laminated face cunt.
Empathy is true strength, TBH.
He may be “only trying to help,” but HIMSELF, not everyone else. Kleptocracy = stripping a government for parts, privatizing institutions, self-dealing. Hm.
100% agree about empathy. It’s one of humankind’s greatest traits, not the worst. Unfortunately, we’re at the point where caring one bit about anything other than oneself is “woke”.
Christopher Titus said it very eloquently the other day – “Billionaires took a look at poor people and decided they had TOO MUCH”.
That is quite the quote. Thanks, i’ll be using that!
I’ve never been able to wrap my head around the fact that these people won’t just fuck off. If you gave me so much as $10,000,000 you would literally never hear from me again (well, you wonderful people would of course but your my blog friends and not coworkers). I’d buy a bougie condo here DC, a beach house, a mountain house, some cool cars and cool guitars, and I’d literally spend the rest of my life traveling with my wife and kid and nerding out on my hobbies.
I just don’t understand why the 1% always has to have more. It’s never enough to be unfathomably wealthy, you have to be unfathomably wealthier than the next guy. You can’t just be a titan of one industry, you have to stick your hands in other ones too. You can’t just focus on career shit, you have to try to control the government and bend people to your will because they’re not saying enough nice things about you.
I honestly think it’s a mental illness that we’re going to learn more about in the next decade and I hope that we as a society get to the point that we realize these people have serious issues and need to be separated from society, given intensive treatment, and carefully rehabilitated.
And before someone accuses me of hating rich people, being jealous, etc…I don’t unilaterally hate rich people. I don’t mind people being millionaires. I’m not going to lose any sleep over a neurosurgeon or professional athlete making a huge salary. If you made wise financial moves that didn’t involve fucking anyone over along the way you’re allowed to reap the rewards and have nice things. Being smart and contributing in meaningful ways should be rewarded.
It’s the billionaires that get to me…and they should get to everyone regardless of your political leanings.
I’m guessing there are plenty of the super rich that we never hear about, since they are more or less just normal (a friend in my freshman dorm was in a multi billionaire family, and I would have never guessed). The fools you are commenting on though are insecure beyond belief. musk buying twitter is maybe the biggest act of insecurity in human history in my opinion.
The fact that they are willing to destroy at will and laugh about it, but turn around crying if anyone returns any of their own actions just demonstrate the insecurity they have.
All of this is due to the fact that Elon just wants someone to think he’s cool. That’s literally all he’s ever wanted in life, and it’s the one thing he can’t buy. At the end of the day he’s one of least cool people in human history and it keeps him up every single night. That and the copious amounts of drugs, of course.
Haha, look up Bill Burr’s segment on Fallon the other night, he mentioned Musk trying to rewrite his origin story to be “cool”. I LOVE how hard ol’ Billy Broadway has been going at Musk lately.
I saw that all the time. If I had even a single digit percent of their money, I would never work a day again.
Instead of trying to take over the government, I’d start a non-profit animal rescue, and give grants to existing shelters, Miranda Lambert – style.
I cannot imagine being that wealthy and not wanting to use it for good.
Rather than building dick rockets, I’d figure out how to mass product inexpensive but high-quality housing on a mass scale. (Like Henry Kaiser and Liberty ships)
I guess that’s why people like us will never be wealthy – we have hearts, souls, empathy, compassion and interests other than power and more money.
Bill Burr said the other day on the Tonight Show – “we live in sad times; these billionaires are sad they have a billion dollars”.
Why have only one billion when you can have two? Or 500, or 1 trillion? It’s never enough. After a certain point, your life doesn’t change, it’s all about “winning”. People want to classify “TDS” as an actual psychiatric disorder, I think they need to look at these relentless wealth hoarders instead.
And IMO, TDS should really apply to anyone that till enthusiastically supports him.
I just replied to Nsane calling it hoarding. I completely agree.
And you were correct!
While I agree, it comes down to statistics. The bell curve concept exist for a reason. I just kinda see this as that tiny sliver at one end of the bell curve. The consequence is that this type of person will always exist. As that area under the curve grows, the more types exist at all levels. I’m sorry I just typed that out.
I think when you reach a billion dollars of net worth you should get a big ceremony where hundreds of people attend, clap, and tell you how great you are. Then you get a medal for winning capitalism presented by the CEO of your choice…and after that all of your assets exceeding 1 billion are automatically donated to whatever causes you select out of a predetermined list.
That shit should be televised! We should all get to watch so we know where we stand.
Make it prime time TV. Everyone will be happy! It’ll be a long, sensual handjob for the ego of the newly minted billionaire, we’ll all get a good clear look at who we need to make sure is afraid of us, and maybe we award a giant check for representatives of the causes they choose to donate to. Who doesn’t love comically large checks?! They’re as American as apple pie
I’ve never been able to get this, either. You look at NFL owners, who are some of the richest people on the planet, and all they do is figure out how to better exploit their fans and athletes in order to squeeze every goddamn penny out of the sport. As was mentioned, dickswinging insecurity is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.
Any Human Heart, Episode 4, 27:11-28:20
https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/48573bf77a8955758ec1692c37f6f31a
Which is why, as an adjacent-to-a-football fan, I am heartened how the Green Bay Packers exist financially. Good on them!
I’ve always thought that the Packers should at least be everyone’s second favorite team. You’ll always go with your home team, but after them it makes sense to back the one really small market, old school team left that will never find itself moved to another city because some billionaire asshole thinks he can squeeze more money out of that group of people.
I look at many of these super wealthy people and do you know what I see? Hoarders. Obviously there’s more to it than that, but they do the exact same thing my grandma has done most of her life. Keep acquiring shit, never get rid of it, and amass it in such quantities that it impacts your life negatively. (More than two thirds of her home is piled high with God knows what and there’s a lot of mold.) When someone fills their house with so much junk they sleep in their car, we put them on a TV show. When someone does it with money, we’re supposed to admire them.
This has always been my take. Why would anyone want all the work and crap of politics when you have as much money as these clowns. I’d just by a private island with an anmazing ring road paved around it and live my best life.
I really like this. People used to lament about “the man”, and society is putting them in charge. I agree about the mental aspect. If you had a lot less money it would be called “hoarding”. I especially dislike people who say “don’t tread on me” but have no problem jamming their nose up the ass of people they don’t like due to appearances or politics.
It’s interesting how many folks have traded in a Tesla to other legacy automakers. The big complaint I’ve heard from folks buying a Hyundai or a Ford is that the dealerships don’t have enough knowledgeable sales and service staff to handle the new vehicles on the road. I’d like to believe that the problem is being solved, but I wonder if there is any data that says to the contrary outside of anecdotal evidence.
If Tesla’s don’t become un-insurable with astronomical rates, a used Model Y makes for a very good used car with their low values and relatively low mileage. I don’t know if I could bring myself to buy one and have to support Tesla (really their CEO) with parts and service, but it’s a good thought for the future.
My Tesla needed a warranty repair yesterday. The car was essentially undrivable over a faulty sensor. The local service center did an amazing job getting me in and out quickly along with fixing the problem. Credit where credit is due.
I got a survey about the experience. All 5 stars except the last question: would I recommend Tesla on a 10 point Likert scale. Big ol’ 0, extremely unlikely to recommend. I dropped in the comment box to get rid of Musk and until he’s gone I can’t recommend Tesla.
Nope, can’t recommend them and won’t consider another one until Musk is gone from the CEO role. Preferably stripped of most of his stock options since his actions during his tenure as CEO have materially damaged the company.
We’ve had two Teslas. First was a Model Y right after they came out during the pandemic. Loved it for 75k miles and traded it in last year on a ’24 when they were offering insanely low interest rates. We love the cars. Have no complaints and have not had any problems with either of them. I would, and used to, recommend the cars to friends. With the current situation I would never buy another, would never recommend again, and would trade-in if it weren’t for that insanely low interest rate I have. It’s truly a conundrum.
I would say Subaru is a Legacy automaker.
This is high quality automotive humor.
Nissan is too, but i fear they’ve gone Rouge, and Datsun has set on them as a brand. Kinda sad that this is their Altimate fate
Honda was willing to do their Civic duty and merge with them even if it wasn’t a good Fit, but the couldn’t reach an Accord.
Im pretty sure the Mitsubishi involvement was just a Mirage to boost stock prices. They knew they’d be totally Eclipsed by the other two in any merger. Altough without help, their Starion is definitely fading.
Honda could be a Prelude to the future is they act quickly.
As they say, the past is Prologue.
If their brother company Acura had any Integra-ty, it would be a Legend in the business. Alas, they lacked the Vigor to deal with it.
Sorry this is TL and you didn’t read.
I’m off to CDX, as she got half of my assets.
Not anymore!
Like climbing Mt. Everest or running the four-minute mile, once it’s done you wear the laurels forever.
Those are Nissans.
Goddammit
Dammit, you got me.
“ Some people…. listen, I understand if you don’t like our product don’t buy it, but you don’t have to burn it down.”
….how about you stop burning out government down then? Quid pro quo, Elon.
This. I generally don’t really agree with the destruction of property, but while I wouldn’t personally do it, I’m having trouble locating any fucks to give.
There isn’t a violin in the world tiny enough.
I’ve got too much going for me to go out and do crime. I’ve got a loving wife, an 8 month old son, a great dog, a good career, a supportive and caring extended family, etc.
…but I’m not about to lose any sleep over people destroying products that are financing the guy who’s actively trying to dismantle our government, just like I didn’t lose any sleep after we were introduced to Luigi.
Somehow I think you would holler quite a bit louder if the targets were different. Something something double standards or no standards…
I suspect it would depend a lot on why the target was different.
I didn’t like the fact that all those Hyundais were being stolen, but I also wasn’t all that broken up over it because it was a known issue and people were buying them anyway.
That was a more direct case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. In this case, I do feel bad for the people who have become unwitting participants, but it’s also the game the CEO chose to start, though he’s apparently completely oblivious to his culpability in it.
Some people think all this DOGE stuff is way over due, and it will be great for America. Then there’s those of us that consider it all a gross abuse of power and/or have family and friends directly (and massively) impacted by effects of what DOGE is doing, and think it’s a disaster.
Who’s right? Like always, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle (though it’s worth noting the judicial branch of the government is ruling against Trump about 80% of the time and that’s consistent across party affiliation, based on what I’ve read).
But hey, this is America and we’re all entitled to our own opinions. At least until criticizing the President gets banned, like Trump says it should be.
Now what were you saying about double standards or no standards?
I scrolled way too far down to find this comment. It’s just sitting right there for the taking!
Man, just yesterday I was thanking you for being reasonable, and now this.
Violence is never and acceptable form of political discourse. You think he’s burning the government, I disagree, and we are both entitled to our opinions, and to express them in a peaceful manner. Protest all you want, I support your right to do that.
But vandalizing and destroying random people’s property because you hate musk is beyond the pale and…. checks downthread, oh fucking christ you’re one of the Luigi cheerleaders.
We have a word for piss-babies who like to use violence to intimidate their political opponents. Your side likes to rant about punching them, but I forgot, leftoids always project.
Your buddies all gathered for an uprising at the behest of your cult leader and literally tried to overthrow the government through violence. Don’t talk to me about projecting or give me this holier than thou act lmao. I’m confident you’re a big fan of violence as long as it’s sanctioned by the state.
Sorry about Elon. Us lizardpeople reprogrammed him in an effort to kill evs. But due to prior instability in his brain matrix, the reprogramming went a little off the rails.
I knew there was a logical explanation
An established, volume selling manufacturer is a legacy manufacturer.
I agree that there are better methods of doing harm to Tesla directly. Such as barring them from auto shows and removing the EV incentives from their models.
That’s what happening up in the country that the Autopian staff steadfastly refuse to acknowledge as a sovereign nation.
Good advice Elon.
Now apply it to the US government.
BRAVO!
Ding ding ding ding!!!
That’s a great price for a car belonging to a member of The Who which has not been driven into a hotel pool!
Dare I say that it’s a Bargain?
The best you’ve ever had!
The best you’ve ever haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!
Is just a memory and those dreams….aren’t as daft as they seemed, my love, when you dreamed them up
…wait is this a Who thread? I’m turning it into an Arctic Monkeys thread now, sorry old heads
No issues, went right over my head. Quite easily, actually, no hair in the way…
Thanks all! This is the first time I’ve been in a cover commentariat.
Hell, a quick vacuum of the carpets and a you could probably get some misc. powders to recoup your costs
Just don’t run a black light over the interior…
Not YET driven into a hotel pool.
Did Tesla ever account for the missing 1.4 Billion dollars yet?
My operating theory is it’s the write down on the Cybertruck tooling, which now appears to be next to worthless.
Too harsh?
The Cybertruck has tooling? It’s not just cut and folded?
There’s a lot of Cybertruck tools out there.
Not too harsh. The Cybertruck has some good things going for it (height adjustable air suspension being one) but overall I think it’s a shit design.
If I were in charge of the project I would have
1.) Made it Maverick sized
2.) Made the Body out of aluminum
3.) Use a ton of Model Y/Model 3 Parts to cut costs and simplify production
4.) Offer Anodizing for body color options, and polishing for a shiny option
5.) Probably named it the Cyberpickup instead.
Clearly you are not intending your Cyberpickup to travel the surface of Mars, or are addicted to ketamine, were born into a racist family that created its wealth by exploiting the poor, or want billions in government handouts while dealing with the cognitive dissonance of labeling government programs such a Social Security as entitlements. That’s why your Cyberpickup was never made.
Yeah, it’s a fuckin’ entitlement. As it, I paid for it. I’m entitled to it, because that’s the deal. It’s OUR money, y’all.
Entitlement is not a bad word when describing things we are literally entitled to.
That’s not entirely true. Only Musk’s father’s family built their wealth using an abominably racist and violent system to exploit the poor for its benefit. His maternal grandfather embraced an odd economic theory and espoused technocratic control of government before leaving Canada for South Africa because it was the savior of white Christianity.
It blew off when the glue melted…