For the past three years, enthusiasts across the central and eastern parts of America have been living a nightmare after their states decided that their legally imported Japanese cars were no longer able to be driven on the road. Some enthusiasts sued their states while others appealed to their DMVs. Texans worked with their lawmakers, and now the state will be the first to successfully reverse a ban on imported cars.
If you haven’t been following this multi-year saga, I’ll bring you up to speed. The Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act of 1988 was passed under the guise of protecting American consumers from potentially unsafe imported vehicles that weren’t built to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. The law effectively bans the importation of non-compliant vehicles until they’re 25 years old or they have been converted to U.S. standards. Once either is met, the federal government no longer cares. So, many enthusiasts wait until their favorite vehicles reach that magical age. Sadly, states have been pushing back.
In 2021, Maine changed its laws to state that any vehicle that does not meet FMVSS is an off-road vehicle and therefore not legal to drive on its roads. This change was made infamous when the owners of Mitsubishi Delica vans began reporting that the state revoked their registrations. As if a floodgate had opened, other states joined in, removing imported Japanese cars from their roads in one way or another.
UPDATE: By popular demand, you can now get a t-shirt and sticker showing your support for imported car ownership.
Update: To be clear, Maine was not the first state to ban Kei trucks. Many states had existing bans on Kei trucks dating back a decade or longer. However, Maine was the first state to enact a practically universal imported vehicle ban under then-new guidance issued by a lobbying group. This triggered other states to follow suit, as I’ll explain below.
Since Maine kicked off the tidal wave, enthusiasts in Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Texas have all reported headaches in getting their vehicles titled and registered. Kei truck registration has been a longtime battle in Texas, with Kei truck owners reporting registration denials as far back as the late 2000s. However, things appeared to get better just for them to get worse again in 2021, the same time the aforementioned states started their own bans.
What A Headache
As I have reported many times before, all of this traces back to the Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA). The AAMVA is a non-governmental non-profit lobbying organization composed of motor vehicle administrators, law enforcement administrators, and executives from all 50 states, Canada, Mexico, the Virgin Islands, and Washington D.C. Among other things, the organization seeks standardization of laws across member states regarding traffic safety, vehicle titling, and driver licensing. AAMVA does not have legislative power but it does urge all member states to follow its “best practices.”
The AAMVA has been studying Japanese and Chinese Kei vehicles since at least the late 2000s. Back then, the AAMVA didn’t really know how to handle the flood of cheap 25 mph speed-limited off-road utility trucks that came in from China. The answer came courtesy of an Insurance Institute for Highway Safety opinion published in 2010. The IIHS crash-tested a Kei truck against a Ford Ranger and concluded that low-speed vehicles and mini trucks are unsafe and should be removed from the road.
From that point forward, the AAMVA has advocated against allowing Kei trucks from being allowed on state roads. In 2021, this guidance went even further, essentially telling states to ban any vehicle that doesn’t meet FMVSS. The AAMVA was serious about this, stating in its documentation that if banning a vehicle ran afoul state law, it urged lawmakers to change the laws until the ban became legal.
To these states, it doesn’t matter that a 25-year-old Kei truck imported from Japan doesn’t have a speed limiter and is exempt from meeting FMVSS on the federal level. The states retain the right to determine what can and cannot drive on their roads. Weirdly, while the AAMVA is urging the states free will to ban any vehicle that doesn’t meet FMVSS, states have focused primarily on imports from Japan, usually just in the Kei class.
This has caused turmoil within enthusiast communities in the impacted states. It has also caused concern in states that aren’t currently banning JDM cars. If Maine wants to stop people from registering Mitsubishi Delicas, nothing is stopping Illinois from doing the same.
Enthusiasts have been fighting back, from individual DMV appeals in Pennsylvania and Rhode Island to a lawsuit in Georgia. One Maine lawmaker even introduced a bill that would have reversed the ban in that state. Sadly, that bill didn’t get traction and died off. Some people have gotten small victories in their individual appeals, but until now, not a single state has reversed its bans. That was until Texans got involved.
Come And Take It
In my last entry, I noted how I spoke with David from the Texas Kei Truck Advocates. A lot of Kei truck advocacy groups have launched in the wake these bans, but the Texas Kei Truck Advocates had a different strategy than everyone else.
Here’s what’s been happening with Kei truck owners in the state:
David and I spoke on a call where he revealed that the situation in Texas is a bit weird. Some Kei truck owners haven’t experienced any issues registering their vehicles while others have been getting turned away from the DMV. It would appear that some counties are better than others. This does mean that Texas Kei truck owners are currently in a better position than Kei truck owners in, say, Maine, but it’s still not a great place to be. If you don’t know if your Kei truck will be able to be registered, you may think twice about putting down your hard-earned cash on one.
Which is right? Are Kei trucks legal in Texas? According to the January 2024 edition of the Texas Vehicle Title Manual, the answer is no:
Mini-trucks
Vast numbers of used Japanese mini-trucks and vans (also known as Kei-class vehicles) are being imported into the US primarily as off-road vehicles. Some states allow mini-trucks to operate on roadways as low or slow speed vehicles. Mini-trucks are not eligible for title or registration due the vehicle’s lack of compliance with US environmental and safety standards.
The Texas Vehicle Title Manual then goes on to clarify that Kei trucks do not meet the definition of a motor vehicle, therefore they cannot be titled. The confusing part about that is that Texas law doesn’t appear to support that assertion. I could not find a law excluding Kei trucks, mini trucks, or imported cars from being classified as motor vehicles. I didn’t even find the AAMVA wording that any vehicle not meeting FMVSS should be removed from Texas roads. Unlike Maine, Texas did not appear to change its laws, just its DMV policies.
This put Texas Kei truck enthusiasts in a weird spot. The DMV’s official policy was to deny the title and registration of Kei trucks, but clearly, not all DMV offices have gotten the memo. Now, they could have decided to wait it out. As I said above, some people were still reporting success getting their Kei trucks on the road.
However, the Texas Kei Truck Advocates didn’t want to wait for Texas to start revoking titles like the other states are doing. Instead, the enthusiasts wanted to get ahead by working with lawmakers to get the DMV policy changed. Some people felt that Texans were rocking the boat and they should have just left things alone. The enthusiasts ran the risk of alerting the DMV that some offices weren’t following the rules, and thus accidentally end up triggering the statewide ban they were hoping to avoid.
On the other hand, working with lawmakers instead of working against them could result in success. That was the gamble Texas enthusiasts were willing to make. So, David told me that the Texas Kei Truck Advocates reached out to the Texas DMV as well as lawmakers over the state, including Governor Greg Abbott. They approached the situation armed with a multi-page document explaining what Kei trucks are, how they’re different than 25 mph-limited mini trucks, how the trucks are federally legal, and how banning these vehicles would negatively impact small businesses in the state.
It should also be noted that these bans aren’t being applied equally. According to the AAMVA, vehicles that were not built to FMVSS are too unsafe to drive on American roads. Yet, save for the crackdown in Maine, the logic is being applied only to tiny Kei vehicles from Japan. I can import a 1999 Smart City Coupe or a Mercedes-Benz A-Class, two European city cars that were never built for U.S. roads, but have no problem registering them because they aren’t Kei cars.
In a welcoming turn of events, the Texas DMV did not shut the door with the Texas Kei Truck Advocates, but agreed to review its policies.
While this was happening, we also reached out to the Texas DMV and to Texas State Representative Gene Wu. The DMV didn’t get back to us, but Rep. Wu, along with other lawmakers, flexed some muscles. As a result of all of these efforts, Rep. Wu was pleased to announce that Texas will be reversing its policies on Kei truck registration, from Representative Gene Wu on X:
In a statement, Rep. Wu said:
“I’m very grateful to the wonderful people at the Texas DMV who took our inquiry seriously, even though it was just a mini-request, and reformulated their policy to include the interest of thousands of Texas automotive enthusiasts, like myself.”
Rep. Wu actually understates how big this win actually is. Texas is officially the first state to reverse the damage started in 2021. David is understandably very happy, too. He sent me this message:
“Today marks a momentous day for Kei truck owners, enthusiasts, and small businesses across Texas. Thanks to the tireless efforts of our grassroots advocacy group, The Texas Kei Truck Advocates, and the support of our passionate community, we have successfully achieved a policy reversal at the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles. As of today, Kei trucks are officially street legal in the Lone Star State.
This victory is a testament to the power of civic engagement and the importance of standing up for our rights and freedoms. By engaging with our state legislators, sharing our personal stories, and highlighting the unique value that Kei trucks bring to our lives and communities, we were able to effect meaningful change.
We would like to extend a special thank you to state Representatives Will Metcalf and Terry Canales, as well as Senator Brandon Creighton. Their support and advocacy were crucial in helping us achieve this policy reversal. We are grateful for their willingness to listen to our concerns, understand the importance of this issue, and champion our cause at the TxDMV.
We also extend our heartfelt gratitude to the TxDMV for their willingness to listen to our concerns, review their policies, and ultimately make the right decision. This policy reversal not only benefits current Kei truck owners but also provides a lifeline to small businesses that deal in Kei trucks. Many of these businesses have faced uncertainty and financial hardship due to the previous restrictions on Kei truck registration and use. Now, they can operate with confidence, knowing that their vehicles are fully legal and recognized by the state.
However, our work is not finished. While this policy reversal is a significant step forward, our ultimate goal has always been to secure a state law that protects these trucks once and for all. Policies can be easily changed, but laws provide more certainty and long-term protection. We will continue to work with our legislative allies to draft and pass legislation that enshrines the legality of Kei trucks in Texas statutes.
Texas now joins a growing list of states that recognize the value of personal choice and freedom when it comes to vehicle ownership. We hope that our success will inspire other states to follow suit and embrace the diversity of vehicles on our roads.
As we celebrate this victory, we remain committed to promoting responsible Kei truck ownership, educating the public about the benefits and limitations of these vehicles, and fostering a supportive community of enthusiasts. We look forward to seeing more Kei trucks on the streets of Texas and to continuing our advocacy efforts to protect and expand the rights of Kei truck owners nationwide.
Thank you to everyone who supported us along the way. Together, we have made a difference and shown that when passionate citizens unite behind a common cause anything is possible. Let us carry this momentum forward as we work to secure permanent legal protection for Kei trucks in Texas.”
I mention that Texas is the first to beat the 2021 AAMVA rules because technically, there have been earlier victories in other states before the AAMVA’s rules came out. David gives me the example of North Carolina, where in 2019, Kei truck dealer Mayberry Mini Trucks as well as other advocates managed to convince North Carolina to keep Keis legal.
So, what’s next? Texas will publish its latest edition of the Texas Vehicle Title Manual, which should have no mention of Kei trucks being unable to be titled, if it even mentions Kei trucks and mini trucks at all. Thankfully, Texas did not get to the point of revoking titles, so now, enthusiasts should be able to go to their local DMV and get a title and registration.
“I would encourage every car nut and gearhead to reach out to your elected officials during this year’s election cycle. Let them know you exist and that you matter,” said Representative Wu.
Hopefully, what we’re seeing in Texas is only the beginning. There’s still a long road ahead for enthusiasts in other states. It will be an especially difficult battle in states where the laws were changed to ban imported vehicles. However, perhaps some of them might find some luck in banding together with lawmakers. For now, Kei truck fans in Texas can breathe a sigh of relief. It would appear the AAMVA just learned that you do not mess with Texas.
Here in Indiana we have mini truck plates just for kei vehicles.
Nice to see government actually working in the way we were taught it does in Civics class. It is supposed to respond to The People (albeit, when written, said People were basically the landed gentry 🙁 ), and it did in this case. I don’t imagine the Kei truck enthusiasts hired a massive lobbying firm, or has undue influence.
I am heartened a bit
I find the last bullet point in the clip titled “Not Eligible for Texas Title” interesting. A vehicle built by merging two classes is not legal? Specifically with the way it is worded, a car body on a pickup chassis would not be legal. Now I’ve seen quite a few built like that and I’m sure that there have been some done in Texas but this would indicate that they would not be titled.
Yeeeeeah…I know kit car owners have had an uphill battle here for, gosh, seemingly decades.
Here in WA, the titling was fine. (’95 Subaru Sambar Dump) I was required to go with “Farm Exempt” registration (cheap and forever.) Technically I can use the roads for up to 25 miles from the “farm” for “farm” supply errands. (I figure beer is a farm supply.) In practice, I can do whatever I want, law enforcement has higher priorities. Insurance, however, has put me in a gray area. No auto policy on it, it sort of is covered by homeowners. But again, the chances of me getting stopped and asked for reg and ins are nil, mostly because I am a responsible adult.
Truthfully, if the argument originally hinged on the fact that some cars fail modern crash tests, wouldn’t that also mean *any* car older than 25yo isn’t allowed on the roads? I mean, look at that IIHS comparison of a 50s Bel Aire vs a 2010s Malibu as the example of how far we’ve come
And how do they explain motorcycles?
If motorcycles were first introduced today, they’d be illegal.
see: the discussion around e-bikes
Maine: kei cars are unsafe, no registration for you!
Also Maine: motorcyclists don’t need to wear helmets, because of Muh Freedumbs.
Anybody have a Montana LLC? Just wondering if it would work in Ca. I hate being a cheat almost as much as I hate being cheated but California rewards the conniver, right Mr. Newsom? French Laundry anyone?How about your own winery? Soundbite Newsom in all his entitled glory just doesn’t see the average citizen, just the edgers of society.
lol
Yeah…The DMV got me in a mood today.
Sir, this is an Arby’s.
I’m sure if you follow the money trail for the funding of AAMVA, it will trace back to new-car manufacturers, who would rather you not have truck choices below $50k. Ridiculous, of course, because no one is cross shopping a Kei truck with an F-250, but that doesn’t stop them.
I’ve worked alongside a motor vehicle department in IT, where I could… see stuff. There is definitely a money trail via AAMVA. The same applies to inspection programs. “Your Safety” = “You will be pushed into buying a car built within the last ten years or you will be made to regret it one way or another when dealing with the motor vehicle department or its enforcement arm(s)”
Sure, putting a plate on a 15-20 year old car is cheap. Good luck getting it to pass inspection without being nickeled-and-dimed to death.
25 year old car that meets the age requirement for antique plates and (somewhat) more lenient inspection requirements? Not unless it’s really restored. “Survivors” need not apply. The inspection station will be the judge of that… Good luck.
(Where I worked there was an annual mileage limit on antique plates. Fortunately, the DMV didn’t request an odometer statement. But the inspection system logged odometer readings. If they haven’t started surreptitiously checking odometer readings from the inspection system yet, it’s probably only a matter of time.)
25 year old import? Fat chance, you scofflaw! Buy American!
They just killed the antique plate thing here in UTAH which basically made my old impreza to sti conversion illegal. I have no doubt the dealers association was involved.
I’ve done a little bit of digging on this. They take money from multinational corporations. And at least a few based outside of North America. It’d be cool to see @Mercedes dig into this deeper!
Of course it is Texas, the state where the speed limit is what it should be everywhere: as fast as you can go safely in the circumstances. The Transp. Code S 545.351: “MAXIMUM SPEED REQUIREMENT. . . . a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances then existing.” There are posted limits of course but those are only “prima facie” evidence subject to contrary evidence of the specific circumstances. S 545.352.
So you can just drive 100mph on city roads?
Provided you can convince either the cop on the scene or later a jury of your peers it was reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, any number you want to suggest, in any place, at any time, is legal in Texas, yes.
Wow, I can’t believe Texas is actually ok with kei trucks.
Maybe there’s hope that one day Texas could be ok with some other things, things like
-not having to remind you that you’re in Texas every few blocks you drive
-a team that could one day win a Superbowl
-acknowledging that there are other places besides Texas that can be cool
-working power grids
-working on a school shooting solution comprised of neither thoughts nor prayers
-gun laws
-Democrats
-non-red ball caps
-black people
-brown people
-the LGBTQ+ community
-women’s reproductive rights
-women
-a functioning government
-anyone other than Ted Cruz
Just kidding that’ll never happen
Honestly, I was momentarily shocked to learn that the state legislature only meets once every two years, but then I realized that maybe that’s still too much
The Lege meets for 140 days every two years due to a typo – it was supposed to meet for two days every 140 years.
It is the one star state after all – that would be its Yelp rating.
Oh sure, you just HAD to pick the one or two or fifteen things wrong with Texas, several of which contravene constitutional or fundamental human rights. Stop nitpicking poor little Texas!
-“a team that could one day win a Superbowl”
Orr a college football national championship.(Looking at you, Longhorns, A&M, SMU {Good luck with that ACC thing}, Baylor-oh wait, scratch Baylor, too scummy.)
My wife and I were joking that while not everything is perfect where we live at least she has more rights than a gun here.
Not to nitpick, but I think I’d like them to work on a school shooting solution that did involve some sort of thoughts.
I will certainly concede the point
According to AAMVA no cars built before 1967 are legal to register!
Shhhh… Don’t give them any ideas!
Now let’s see them fix the direct sale ban put in place by the dealers.
Thanks for continuing to cover this Mercedes and for sharing the good news!
“The AAMVA is a non-governmental non-profit lobbying organization…”
To quote Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.”*
*this is directed towards the AAMVA (aka “Big SxS”), not Mercedes
They formed an association in Texas, that always makes a difference, everybody has an opinion on things, but associations are a group of people, they also often hire lobbyists. Kei owners in other states may want to learn from this game plan.
We had a plan for lobbyists, should it have come to that. Estimated $50k price tag though. We took about $500 in donations over 8 months and I spent thousand(s) personally. But yes, organization and communication was key.
It’s nice to see Texas get something right for a change! Yeehaw!
Off the record, they just explained how many firearms could be open-carried in the truck bed. That sealed the deal.
Texas’ garbage state government actually doing the right thing coinciding so close with the moon blocking out the sun, though…
*adjusts tin foil hat*
…are we in the end times? I kind of hoped they’d be more metal.
Speaking of the eclipse, if Monday gets rained out I’m totally blaming that jackass Abbott for the weather.
Yay!
Generally speaking, I’m not.a fan of Texas, but, after this, I’ll be the first to say, “Texas is OKei.”
Wow, this, well, pretty much the exact opposite of how I’ve been conditioned to expect government to work. Small victories, take one where you can get one. Texas is one of those states that’s big enough to set trends for the rest of the country, hopefully that happens in this specific case.
In the meantime, I’d like to see my state relax emissions rules on older vehicles, since 1996 and up just get an OBD scan instead of a tailpipe test, which is obviously impossible to do on non-OBD cars that are now approaching 30 years old in some cases. Maybe allow the two speed idle test used from 1981-1995 to apply to 25+ year old non-OBD cars or something. Not saying we have to go all the way down to the one speed idle test used for 1968-1980, but the middle one.
But, don’t want to push anything, we haven’t gotten weird about kei cars yet, so maybe don’t stir things up and just shop 1995 and older
In Texas, at least, there’s no emissions requirement for vehicles manufactured when there was no requirement, which is 1982 or something if my memory is correct. When I had my ’71 Caddy, the state inspection was $6 for the safety part, because it was emissions exempt.
Yeah, we go back to 1968, but pre-1996 JDM cars don’t have any trouble passing, but anything non-US market from 1996 or later is impossible to register due to OBD compatibility
I am in no way anti-emissions but annual emissions testing seems to me a pointless burden in 2024. Emissions equipment it turns out, lasts a very long time (probably thanks to Govt warranty requirements) and it’s become a pointless money drain for the people who can least afford it as well as a relatively tiny segment of auto enthusiasts who might purposely remove emissions equipment. I’ve had a number of crappy high mileage obd1 and obd2 cars and haven’t had any of them with the kinds of emissions equipment problems that caused a constant check engine light.
I don’t mind it, I mean, my only old car is 1964, so it’s exempt anyway, but my other cars are 2008 and 2022, the 2022 won’t have to ever be inspected or emissions tested under my ownership, since I’m not going to keep it that long (vehicles 7 years old and newer are exempt) and the 2008 is only every other year, since I pay for a 2 year registration.
But, I’d like to see a rolling exception made for vehicles that are 25 years old or older that allows them to have a 2 speed idle test done instead of OBD if they don’t have OBD. We’re talking about small numbers of vintage vehicles owned by enthusiasts and likely used as 3rd or 4th cars with the annual mileage to match, wouldn’t be a problem, and there’d still be some sort of minimim standard being met, not saying don’t do any emissions testing at all
Awesome! Now I just need to get a Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappuccino! (One of my favorite car names)
This is a good case of government on a local level actually working to resolve issues of constituents. Is it sexy? Does it get you to become a weird TV/social media celebrity? No, but it actually means the job you’ve been hired for is getting done! Good on the collaborative work with this
It was one of the most challenging and rewarding accomplishments for me personally.
But motorcycles are safe??
And at the other end of the scale there is nothing stopping someone from driving a motorhome the size of an intercity coach with a car licence. Where I live, if I were to purchase a Ram 3500 and load it up, plus add a reasonably heavy boat, technically I would need a truck drivers licence to drive it – let alone a bus. So yeah, the safety argument is somewhat sketchy in my view!
You could also put a KEI truck on a trailer legally.
Go figure…
You can tow another car behind that coach RV too! SUV of course.
In South Dakota you will see all manner of ATVs and side by sides on the city streets.
Not sure if its lack of enforcement or just an ‘anything goes’ mindset.
Oh and helmets not required on motorcycles. Because, Sturgis.
Some say that lawmakers are hoping the lack of helmet laws will eventually cure the state of the Sturgis plague.
My sister who has lived in SD all her life and works in heath care, says the emergency room workers get extra busy during the rally. They have a term for helmetless motorcycle riders:
Organ Donors
I am reposting this from when this subject came up last month. That time it got consigned to comment approval oblivion, probably because of too many links to the data I used. This time, no links:
Besides the obvious logic chasm between allowing motorbikes and banning kei vehicles, vehicle type is just one piece of the overall picture.
I live in Japan, where kei vehicles of all types and ages drive on all roads – including expressways – in all weathers. When I first arrived here in the late 1980s, there were more than 10,000 traffic fatalities every year, which seemed like slaughter. By various means, that is now down to 2,610 fatalities in 2022. US traffic fatalities in 2022? 42,795.
Even allowing for the relative population sizes*, if you turn those numbers into fatalities per million population, you get 20.9 in Japan vs. 126.5 in the US.
OK, so people in the US drive a lot more than people in Japan, so how about fatalities per billion passenger km**? That still comes out as Japan: 3.39, US: 6.53 and can never be a direct comparison, because a larger proportion of those km in the US are on relatively safe expressways. (… and it is also an indirect advocacy for improving public transportation?)
How about a more direct comparison, of traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in major urban areas? Tokyo: 0.94 (2022); New York: 3.01 (2018).
I know I am preaching to the converted here but clearly kei cars are not the problem.
A major reason that fatalities dropped so fast in Japan is that the government and the police came down like a ton of bricks on DUI after some horrible incidents, including a whole family drowning after being rammed off a bridge by a drunk driver***. For a start, focusing on DUI might be a better place to start than the weird obsession with one class of relatively (compared to motorbikes) safe vehicles.
*Population in 2022: Japan: 125,170,000; US: 338,289,857
**Passenger km traveled (billions): Japan: 769.4; US: 6,558.3
***Ton of bricks = big fine and likelihood of jail for the driver. Equal penalty for any passengers of driving age. Prosecution of the restaurant or bar that supplied the drinks if they didn’t take any measures to discourage DUI.
In the cities in Texas, DUI is seen more as a challenge than a crime.
Would you look at that, Texas actually did something right for once.
Forget about the Kei trucks – can we please talk about Texas’ ban on registering “implements of husbandry?”
Why do you support a phallus registry?
😉
shh, don’t give this awful state ideas
That would apply to agricultural equipment that is only driven on the roadway from one field to another.
There’s some kind of joke in there…hmmm…
“Why didn’t the chicken cross the road in Texas?
Because she couldn’t hitch a ride to meet her cock because the state bans implements of husbandry on state highways”
Texas:
“Lets ban little old trucks because they aren’t safe for the 12 or 15 people who have one”
Also Texas:
“Everybody get more guns! Pew-Pew!
(Sorry about your kid – Thoughts and Prayers)
The mandatory background check you have to go through before buying a gun from anyone in the business of selling guns does a good job of keeping violent criminals (and sadly many nonviolent felons who served their time) from legally buying guns.
Precrime however has yet to come into existence, let alone become a science.
But when you do go through the FBI statistics to get down to the statistics of firearms deaths, 99.999%+ of all legally owned firearms are never used to kill anyone outside of legally justified self defense, but in the cases where legally owned firearms are used to shoot people over half are suicides, the next largest percentage is accidental shootings which are largely preventable through simple education and keeping firearms out of the reach of toddlers.
Perhaps we should pay attention to things like how the majority of the prominent mass shooters were on some form of anti-psychotic, and should have otherwise been prevented from legally owning a firearm if our surveillance state was actually doing what they’ve been claiming they do for years.
People should be wary of firearms, like any machine with a ton of potential energy.
When you think about it firearms as a concept are really sketchy, a bit of metal to contain explosions and direct their explosive energy in a given direction to move an object in order to project kinetic energy at range.
But by that same logic cars are very sketchy machines too.
Energy is sketchy, welcome to existence.
Personally I’d rather have a new production Gyrojet Pistol and Gyrojet carbine than traditional firearms (rockets are safer that contained explosions), but sadly they’ve been out of production for years, and the ammo is over $100 a round if you can find it.
Maybe in the future I’ll restart Gyrojet Ammo and firearm production, that would be pretty cool.
Last year, Texas had 4,268 deaths in car crashes and in the average year they have 3,996 firearms deaths, 58% of those being from suicide. If you look at the number of “users”, cars are not in the same league as guns in terms of sketchy.
I am not anti-gun. Anyone who has been to Reynosa or Matamoros can see the negative effects of a total handgun ban. I just want our militia to be well regulated.
Who gets to do the regulation, and what are the regs?
Me. And whatever my whims are on any given day. Your turn is Thursday.
Maybe the UK would be a better example of the negative effects of a total handgun ban? I know some people who lost thousands of pounds of stuff when the government took their pistols away, but other than that I’m stuck for negatives.
I’m not anti-gun, I’ve got a couple of trophies for target shooting, we just have to use air rifles.
Well for one you guys don’t have concealed carry available for your average citizen, which makes the average citizen reliant on the state for protection, and contrary to the term “first responder” police, ems, fire department, etc. take a good while to respond, and with the videos I’ve seen of UK cops with 6 to 1 odds getting their asses handed to them by a skinny dude I wouldn’t trust them in a life threatening situation even if they were there at the scene of the crime just before the crime occurred.
One thing that struck me about London was how much crime there was considering how heavily surveilled it was, as well as how many cops I saw that had MP5 and MP7 PDWs, you never see a cop in the US with a PDW outside of the SWAT team.
In the US at least the overwhelming majority of self defense usage of a firearm requires nothing more than the displaying of said firearm to deescalate the situation, because surprise surprise people don’t want to die, especially not selfish people who are trying to harm others for their gain. So it’s hard to quantify how often firearms are used in self defense as situation where a firearm is never discharged usually go unreported.
Now don’t get me wrong, I think that PDWs are often much better than handguns for concealed carry applications, and in truth there is a better argument for their practicality in self defense than there is for handguns, but then again in the US the regulation of full autos started back when the most prolific sub caliber machine gun in the US was an 11 pound hunk of shit designed with a recoil system based on alchemy. Not to mention prohibition that massively fed the rise of organized Crime, which led to the strategy of getting all the gangsters on tax evasion charges by literally creating new tax laws with the explicit purpose of doing so, like a $250 Tax on a gun that cost $250 brand new in the day (referring to the Thompson).
Training with firearms is something that is lacking quite a bit in the UK as well, to such a degree that your Special Forces guys hardly get enough range time to stay proficient and they complain about it regularly, even the French GIGN gets more range time. It’s so bad some fly to the US to train on their own dime to stay proficient.
Also a lot of cops in the US are less proficient than civilians with the same firearms, because the civilians get more range time, and on average our cops get a ton more range time than your cops, but even with the greater range time than your police we have a lot of cops who shouldn’t be cops. Whether it be shoot first and ask questions later cops, or arrest you to keep you from going to rescue your child from a school shooter unarmed while they do nothing to impede the school shooter, it’s a roll of the dice, and not one you should make unless you have literally any other option, and yet I still trust them more than UK police.
Self defense is a human right, and currently firearms are the best means of self defense, (with handguns being one of the best specific groups of firearms for self defense). While I have an appreciation for Tasers and there is a new 10 shot Taser coming out, heavy clothing easily keeps a Taser from working, no matter how many shots you have.
The US has way more shootings than the UK, and I don’t think it’s because you don’t have enough self defence guns yet.
I’m not really reliant on the state for self defence because I’m unlikely to be attacked by anything more serious than cutlery. Or attacked at all.
No shit sherlock, greater proliferation of a given thing makes deaths from said thing more common.
Greater proliferation of water means a greater likelihood of you getting wet.
And so it is your assertion that noone in the UK that is armed with something other than a firearm would pose a threat to you?
We have a knife crime, but you can back away from a knife, or run away, or shut a door between you and an attacker, or hit them with a chair.
Running away doesn’t protect you from projectile weapons.
In the UK you can be armed with a bunch of non-projectile weapons (and bows and arrows if you like), but you can’t carry any of them legally in public (without a “reasonable excuse” which is how I can take unloaded air guns to a shooting club locked in the boot of my car), so the vast majority of people are unarmed. Self defence isn’t a subject we worry about.
So you think that the government should do a mandatory ‘search and seizure’ of any firearms in a household after a medical doctor, psychologist, or court determines that an occupant of the house be mentally (unstable?) and/or has an anti-psychotic prescription? Maybe also if they’re declared clinically depressed (i.e. potential suicide)?
Nope. It would be limited to people with a history of violence, threats of violence, etc. against others. For example the Parkland Shooter was a sick puppy who tortured animals and put the vids on the internet. Our surveillance state didn’t prevent that, nor would had a 10 round magazine limit, as the shooter had a duffle bag full of 5 round magazines.
My point about anti-psychotics was more on their effectiveness (or apparent lack thereof) considering how many of these prominent mass shooters are on them.
If people want to commit suicide they should be allowed to do so without it physically harming others, that being said when people use guns to do it anti-gun organizations use their deaths as justification for the banning of firearms while not clarifying that the majority of said gun deaths are from suicides.
So no I don’t think being suicidal should prevent you from being able to legally acquire a firearm, either you’ll move past it, or you won’t.
Just replying to the 2nd half of your comment, but…
If people want to commit suicide, >90% of the time they have some treatable mental/medical issue and need counseling and/or medicine to correct a chemical imbalance. It does them an injustice to just let them go for it with a gun like they are making a rational choice, or to think that very many gun suicides are less than preventable gun violence.
What do you think the police do when someone is reported as being suicidal? They’re people with guns who come at the person who isn’t feeling great to begin with.
If in your area being depressed enough to be considered suicidal because you had a THOUGHT is enough to get your guns taken away from you don’t you think that depressed people with guns would be hesitant to seek treatment?
I’m not trying to propose a solution for suicidal gun owners here, but I do believe that gun-based suicide is definitively included part of ‘gun violence’ along with homicide.
It is included, but I don’t think it should be.
You make a nice, informed, nuanced post here, but it’s just not a snarky enough soundbite!
*thousands of people.
We have 30 million people here.
I think you missed the part in the article where Texas didn’t ban kei trucks.
They tried.
That was the point.
Damn am I glad to be wrong! Nice job TX!