I realize my headline is blasphemy and could get me shot in at least 12 states south of the Mason-Dixon line, but I stand by it. The 2025 Ram 1500 hoists the 5.7-liter Hemi V8 that has decorated Ram 1500 engine bays for over two decades up and into the scrapyard, replacing it with a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six. For Ram, the switch was done to improve emissions; when some customers hear that, they immediately cringe and think of so many examples throughout truck history when “improving emissions” resulted in a degraded driving experience. But that’s not the case this time, because this inline-six is legit.
There are lots of reasons why Ram ditched the V8 for a straight-six. The six is 90 pounds lighter, it’s got some cost-saving opportunities over a V-engine (there’s only one cylinder head, for example), it’s an inherently balanced engine layout, and it’s narrow enough to leave room for a set of turbos to fit between the frame rails. But the overarching theme, and the one that Stellantis came right out of the gate with during the media presentation in Austin earlier this week, is that this engine is all about efficiency.
[Full Disclosure: Ram flew me to Austin, put me up in a fancy hotel, and let me drive the new 2025 Ram 1500. At the hotel, I dusted a few hors d’Oeuvres and enjoyed some redfish and brussell sprouts; the next day I crushed some barbecue at a ridiculously fancy ranch/wedding venue. It was all probably far more expensive than anything my cheap-bastard-self would have paid for. -DT].
The engine is the same 3.0-liter “Hurricane” straight six that we’ve seen in the Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, and according to Alan Falkowski, Global Chief Engineer for this family of engines, a key way it increases fuel economy and reduces emissions is through reduction in displacement. When you don’t need the turbos, you can drive along in what is essentially a 3.0-liter NA engine — nearly half the size of the old V8 (which used cylinder deactivation to try to effectively reduce displacement; of course, this then necessitated some active tuned mass dampers that were bolted to the frame — something the buttery smooth inline-six doesn’t need). When you need passing or towing power from the new Ram, you punch the throttle pedal, and the turbos hit to get that 3.0-liter up to 420 horsepower and 469 lb-ft of torque in “Standard Output” guise and up to 540 horsepower, 521 lb-ft of torque on “High Output” variants.
The New Engine
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It’s at this point that many truck owners are probably wondering if this means that the real-world fuel economy woes that Ford F-150 EcoBoost owners have been complaining about for years are going to make their way to Ram. ‘F-150 turbo engines seem to suck fuel pretty much as badly as V8s when they’re in boost,’ some might say. Falkowski addressed this, telling me that a major reason why EcoBoost engines perform so poorly fuel economy-wise when under boost is that they find themselves retarding spark to reduce engine knock.
“To make boosted engines efficient, you gotta suppress knock,” he told me. Among enablers that Ram uses on Hurricane engines, Falkowski tells me, are EGR, a Liquid Charge Air Cooler, and a small engine bore size.
The bore size thing, he told me, has to do with the fact that the flame – initiated from the spark plug – is able to effectively get to the perimeter of the cylinder, yielding healthy combustion and thus reduced knock. He also talked about the cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) cooler, which sends cooled, inert exhaust gases into the combustion chamber. I recall being taught during my engineering days that this improves fuel economy by allowing a driver to have their throttle wide open in more conditions (because so much of the intake charge is inert gas, thus allowing for a wide open throttle even at low loads), thus reducing pumping losses.
But Falkowski says it actually has to do with reducing combustion temperatures. “We’re feeding water into the engine,” he told me, reminding me that water is a byproduct of any combustion reaction, and thus exists in exhaust gases. Water, he told me, absorbs a lot of heat, allowing an engine to run a high combustion ratio without knock.
Then there’s the liquid-cooled charge air cooler, or intercooler, which reduces air charge temperatures, also aiding in knock reduction. To understand how that works, we’ll need to take a closer look at the Ram 1500’s intake:
Air gets sucked through the air filter and into a duct on the passenger’s side of the truck. The air then travels across the front of the engine to the driver’s side.
Once on the driver’s side, the intake air is split:
Air then enters the two turbocharger compressor inlets:
The turbos are being spun up by the exhaust gases exiting the engine on the driver’s side. This exhaust spins a turbocharger turbine, which is on one side of a shaft, which has a compressor on the other side. That compressor squeezes the intake air that comes into the turbocharger axially, and sends that compressed (and thus hot) air out tangentially:
Here you can see where the intake air is sent out of the turbos, and up and over top of the engine back towards the passenger’s side:
Once back on the passenger’s side, the air enters plastic intake “runners” (as I’ve decided to call them), which feed a liquid-cooled charge air cooler (or intercooler):
That’s where that compressed (and thus hot) air enters the charge-air cooler, which has cold liquid coolant flowing through it:
After the LCAC (liquid charge air cooler), the air goes through a throttle body and into the intake manifold, and then into the engine:
The jury is out on whether these enablers (many of which Ford utilizes, as well) will actually give the Ram’s engine a fuel economy advantage over EcoBoosts, especially under load, or if this is all just some clever marketing, but it’s cool to see how the engine works, regardless.
The presentation showed a few slides that look at the innards of the motor; this slide discusses its aluminum closed-deck block, its forged crankshaft, and its cross-bolted main bearings:
Here’s a look at the cylinder head:
And here’s that liquid-cooled charge air cooler, which Stellantis says helps enable better response (less lag) over an air-to-air charge air cooler, which would require an even longer air path since the intake air would have to travel to the truck’s grille:
So that’s the story of the 3.0-liter Hurricane: It’s all about emissions. In fact, it’s so much about emissions that the Ram’s tow rating is actually down. “This engine was really meant for efficiency,” Ram said during the presentation. “There’s more heat rejection…it’s a slight decrease [in tow rating].” The current 5.7-liter Ram’s rating is 12,750; the new Ram 1500 can tow up to 11,580 pounds.
What Else Is New?
Ram breaks up the 1500 into three different buckets: Sport Truck, Core Truck, and EV. The Core includes the Tradesman, Bighorn/Lone Star, Laramie, Limited Longhorn, Limited, and Tungsten; the Sport Trucks include the Rebel and an upcoming off-road-focused RHO (which is expected to launch in Q3 of this year with the 540 horsepower high-output Hurricane engine); and the EV includes the fully-electric REV and the range-extended plug-in hybrid Ramcharger.
This press event that I attended didn’t include much discussion of the RHO or the EVs, focusing only on the core trucks and the Rebel, but placing the most emphasis on the new “Tungsten” trim. Ram found that there’s still unmet demand at the high-end of the pickup truck market, beyond the current top-dog Limited trim, and so the Tungsten will become the most expensive standard 1500 truck at $87,000.
It comes with lots of standard features, including massaging heated and vented 24-way power seats, a new power tailgate, LED lighting all around, a special RAM badge, special interior trim, a suede headliner, a “Klipsch” 23-speaker audio system, dual wireless chargers, a standard sunroof, standard surround-view camera, various safety systems like drowsy driver detection and traffic sign recognition, standard body-color front bumper, and more.
All new Rams have bigger grilles than before, and various interior and exterior styling changes distinguish the 2025 from the outgoing truck. There’s an “improved” 12-inch touchscreen, a new available 14.5-inch touchscreen, an available 10.25-inch passenger touchscreen, a new driver footrest, an additional 3.55 axle ratio to join the 3.21 and 3.92, an available power tailgate, Active Driving Assist “Level 2” automated driving and “Level 2+ hands-free driving, and a new “Advanced ‘Atlantis’ electrical architecture” that promises faster touchscreen response times.
Here’s the outgoing truck in Limited guise:
And here’s what the new top trim, Tungsten, looks like (notice that the grille badge is on the “chest” of the grille, not centered):
Here’s a look at the 2024 Limited interior:
And here’s the new Tungsten cabin:
The truth is that the changes to the truck are fairly subtle to the layperson; the big thing is the new engine, a new top-dog trim, some new luxury options, and some styling tweaks here and there. This is still the same “DT” platform as before, the sole transmission is still an eight-speed automatic, and in fact, the Pentastar V6 remains as a base engine option.
What’s It Like To Drive
I started my drive by hopping into the black Tungsten trim shown above next to the white truck, and I’m glad, because the cruise to the lunch spot (where Ram had set up an off-road course) was quite long.
I don’t know what I can say about the comfort of this truck that’s going to be particularly profound, because the outgoing truck — with its multi-link coil suspension (or available air suspension, like this truck had) and gorgeous interior — was already a smooth-riding penthouse on wheels, but I’ll just say that the Tungsten Ram 1500 that I drove was baller. There’s really no other way to put it. I mean, look at this thing:
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The massaging seats, the big 14.5-inch touchscreen, the huge sunroof, that buttery ride — it’s a true luxury truck, and it made the long drive feel effortless. The “Hands-free Driving Assist,” which Ram calls “Level 2.5” automated driving, worked reasonably well. You just set the adaptive cruise control, and the vehicle will let you know if you’re on a road for which the truck can offer a hands-free experience.
A green light means you can take your hands off the wheel, and I did just that. I did notice that the truck wasn’t the best at staying perfectly centered in the lane (it bounced left to right a bit), so there’s still room for improvement, but it was nice to just sit there and look ahead, without having to think too much.
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But just because I didn’t have to think too much, I did have to pay attention; you can see that sensor there just ahead of the steering wheel – the Ram is watching you! And if you don’t pay attention, it will know:
The 14.5-inch screen worked great, and I have to hand it to RAM for keeping physical HVAC/volume controls to the left and right of that screen:
Just below the screen are two wireless charging spots that hold the phones upright. Those are just ahead of a giant center console that includes a sliding cupholder/storage tray:
I’m glad Ram has kept its dash-mounted rotary-dial shifter; modern automatic transmissions are electronically shifted anyway, so who are we kidding with the big lever-style shifters? Just move the shifter out of the way, and you can offer loads of storage like Ram did here.
Honestly, overall, Ram does a great job with storage. Those rear seats fold up yielding a huge flat floor for bigger items; the Ram Box is huge, fitting both of my carry-on bags; there’s the aforementioned center console; there are little pouches on the backs of the bucket seats; there are storage areas in all four doors; and there’s a glovebox. But only one. And that brings me to a lowpoint: The 10.25-inch passenger-screen that’s standard on high trim level Rams is wack.
Ram describes the point of this screen in its press release, writing:
New segment-first 10.25-inch passenger screen with three major functions: co-pilot (navigation, device management), entertainment (via HDMI) and the ability to view the exterior vehicle cameras
Let’s be real, though: The main advantage of this screen to a passenger is entertainment, but nobody is going to be plugging in via HDMI — that’s ridiculous. Without Bluetooth functionality, this is just silly, and honestly, this doesn’t seem like much of an advantage over just looking at your phone.
If I were buying a Ram, I’d buy one without this feature so I could have this second glovebox:
Or, on lower trims, this little storage ledge:
That passenger screen and a few fit and finish imperfections (see below) are pretty much the only complaints I have about an otherwise fantastic interior:
As for the engine replacing the legendary Hemi, I like it. I recognize that there are going to be concerns about serviceability given that this engine is more complex than the outgoing V8, and given that it’s new, meaning parts/expertise just aren’t there yet. But there seems to be a good amount of room in the engine bay to work on the thing, and as far as outright performance, it’s so good that it has me not really missing that old Hemi.
The Hemi sounds better, to be sure, but the straight-six doesn’t sound bad. It’s not like a wheezy, whiny four-cylinder or V6. It sounds OK; neutral, I’d say. And as far as performance goes, the new straight-six gets it done.
I love the old Hemi, yes, but I don’t miss it, because when boost hits on this inline-six, the thing moves with fury. Like, it’s an event. The Tungsten I drove comes standard with the High Output (HO) engine making 540 horsepower, so it probably goes without saying that this thing moves. Here’s a clip of the first time I punched it in that white Tungsten:
At least in the drive mode that I was in, I found that it takes a second or so for the transmission to downshift and for the boost to build, but once that happens, WHACK! It’s like a freight train hits the truck from behind and shoves it forward with vigor.
I later hopped into a base-model “Tradesman” truck with the Standard Output, 420 horsepower version of that engine (total price was $57,000, though you can get a 4×2 Tradesman Quad-Cab for just over $42,000, or $45,000 if you want the straight-six), and I found that, too, to be more than powerful enough.
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Speaking of that base-model truck, how about that split bench seat? Ram continuing to offer that in 2025 is something worth applauding:
A split bench seat and a straight six? What is this, 1985? I’m a fan,
I also had a chance to take a few 2025 Ram Rebels off-road, and they did great. I won’t spend a ton of time talking about off-roading, because the truth is that, especially at low speeds in low range, the differences in performance between the outgoing Hemi and the new straight-six are imperceivable (dune driving, where you’re often at wide-open throttle, is where you’d be able to see the biggest difference, I bet).
In any case, as before, the new Ram is limited by its geometry. With air suspension jacked all the way up, it’s got a respectable 10.3 inches of ground clearance, though its overall size, its 23-degree approach and departure angles, and its sub-20-degree breakover angle limit its capability.
Still, one can have fun off-road; that 2.64 low range ratio in the transfer case, the 3.92 axle ratio, and the 4.71 first gear ratio all yield a great crawl ratio of nearly 50. That, combined with great Goodyear Wrangler 35-inch all-terrain tires and a great locking differential that activates seemingly instantly means the truck will go damn near anywhere you can get that front chin up and over. I had a great time.
I also got to tow a ~7,000 pound airstream, but given how flat and low-speed the roads were in that part of rural Texas, and how moderate the temperatures were, I wasn’t really able to learn much about the truck’s performance other than that: On 45 mph roads, the truck gets the job done; it never felt underpowered.
The screen read 11.3 MPG over the prior 30 miles, which had all involved towing. Obviously, that figure is hardly representative given that I have no clue how the prior person in the truck had actually driven the machine, and also given how few miles were involved. Still, that doesn’t sound far off; it’ll be interesting to see what it does on the highway while yanking a trailer.
Verdict
The 2025 Ram 1500 is a refreshed version of the outgoing truck. Sure, there’s a new fancy trim level, some styling tweaks, and some new high-end options, plus the engine changed dramatically, but the overall experience feels familiar. The truck is still powerful and luxurious, and it still looks handsome.
Real-world fuel economy and reliability/serviceability will ultimately decide how great of a truck this is, but from my standpoint, the straight-six is a good Hemi replacement. It’s an emissions play from Stellantis, but one that yields nice power behind the wheel of a truck that can pretty much do it all. It’s a workhorse, it’s a luxury car, it’s an off-roader; it’s also not cheap.
I foresee a lot of the same chest-pumping about a real truck needs a v8 like I see on the GM forums about the 2.7 turbo 4cyl.
I have one, drives like a diesel, most days I never get over 2000 rpm.
Big bonus: the 2.7 is so light that the payload gets to 2300 lbs on a 1500 crew cab, short bed truck. The v8’s max out at the typical ~1350 lbs we see on 1500 class trucks.
Reviews of pickups and SUVs these days should all include the distance from the base of the windshield to the ground. Or a picture of the reviewer in front of either side mirror. The height wars are getting grotesque.
Well, this article forced me to go understand what the difference is between open and closed deck blocks. Guess I learned something today, so thanks!
I have to say the picture of David in the front split bench seat looks about half uncomfortable for any sort of long ride – the middle of a split bench with a transmission tunnel will always be better suited to smaller folks or truly needful situations (or to cuddle with your special person). Still, it is nice to have the option.
Will admit a straight 6 is sweet. That said:
what about overall reliability, and longer term durability. If one owns a truck for just 5 years, it’s probably fine, realizing there may be early production teething issues. But what about 10-20 years down the road? DT shit box destiny? With the current data set, I will take a NA V8.
i will grant manufacturers need for better efficiency, emissions and EPA cycle fuel economy. But real world? You got 11+ mpg towing at low speeds. My Titan will beat that at low speeds. How about 70 mph into a 20 mph headwind. Real world baby
call also say, testers love these loaded uber priced pickup trucks. Lovely. But not all of us want or need that.
all that said, keep up the good work.
I’ve got an F150 EcoBoost Max Tow. It gets 17-19 on the highway (depending on the wind and terrain). Towing my 6500# travel trailer at 55mph, it gets about 10mpg. The silver Twinkie you towed should improve that by 10% +. Especially at the 45mph you towed at.
I did notice it’s direct injection only. I would have expected a new design to include port injection as well. Overall it does seem fairly complex, so I am also curious about how these things are doing after 3 to 5 years.
HP is HP. It takes the same amount of fuel to make it whether it’s turbo or not. Sure, there are some differences in efficiency, but at this level of tech, it’s too small to show up as a dramatic difference, particularly when so many other factors apply when talking about how it relates to mileage (which is rated at peak, anyway, which is a very small percentage of use). Whichever engine can do the same work off boost more often will do better, but unless the EB runs really rich (try premium fuel? My Focus ST was a different EB, but same OEM, so I imagine the tuning is similar and the difference between 87 and 93 was massive both in terms of power and mileage even with easy highway miles—23 vs 30 mpg) or is substantially weaker off boost (it probably is a bit), I predict the difference in mileage people will report in the real world between this, an EB, or the Hemi will largely fall under differences in driving style and work. More importantly for most people, though, which is likely to last longest and for cheapest? For that, I would put my money on the discontinued one.
This would never work for me. If I leased it for say three years, I would at least once have to tow a houseboat off road up a 30 degree slope of an Appalachian mountain. It’s what us truck guys do when were not lined up at Starbucks.
It looks like an absolutely brilliant motor.
That’s a lot of plastic piping… probably 20′ of it to get brittle and crack over the next decade. I have concerns about that. Plus direct injection instead of port… how gummed up will the valves get and how fast?
Well, that depends on the quality of the plastic they use. I’m pretty sure ABS can handle it given that my Yakima Space Cadet is still good after 20 years of sun.
You may have GDI have concerns, but I don’t. This is a almost entirely problem of past. If you don’t like modern tech, I’m sure David can recommend any number of dual live axle, sick shifted, carburated, servo-enhanced drum braked, sector gear steered, distributed spark, magneto charged, bias ply riding models of extreme reliability which only require mineral oil lubrication to run 2,000 miles between tuneups. I also hear steam is still an option.
It’s a problem of the past largely because most manufacturers switched to dual injection. Direct-only combined with EGR seems almost guaranteed to have carbon buildup on the intake valves.
Nothing says “rugged working man” like an $87,000 luxury barge with “massaging heated and vented 24-way power seats”.
You don’t want to break a fingernail. Do you?
Brussels sprouts
DING DING DING….reliability/serviceability will ultimately decide how great of a truck this is….I honestly cannot fathom that an NA version of this motor did not replace the 3.6 so the potential bugs could be worked out before dropping the Halo Hemi’s
Hopefully we see this engine end up in a few more Jeep products..
I have concerns…
1) That is a LOT of plastic in a high heat, high pressure environment. Hope everything is easy to get to. I suspect aftermarket upgrade parts will be metal.
2) It’s a Chrysler/Dodge/Ram running a new engine design (admittedly, they probably stole a bunch of ideas). This manufacurer isn’t known for reluability. I would be damn sure to get the extended powertrain warranty.
3) As my former mechanic said “Turbos are wear parts.” Proceed accordingly
4) Lastly, who in blazes can afford these things? Jeep can’t sell Grand Wagoneers at higher price points, so I hope they aren’t counting on the Tungsten (“Titanium and Platinum were taken.”) Trim level to keep them in the black. The top level truck will be way over $120K here in Canada.
I think that plastic in the engine would even make a BMW engineer worry.
Go take a look at Toyota’s F33A-FTV and marvel at the plastic and hot-vee turbo setup!
BMWs & Fords have just as much plastic. There is 1 pieces of aluminum tubing in the BMW’s intake tract and none in the Ford’s.
Truck people have been dealing with turbos and all their extra piping/maintenance for ages now, aka diesels.
Looks like I might have to go 2500 for a V8 in the future
I’m excited to hear straight piped inline-six noises, after 10+ years of hearing blubby straight-piped V8’s in every truck. It’ll just sound like a bunch of weird BMW engines.
I know I’m the minority but never liked the burble burble of low revving V8 trucks, made worse and annoyingly louder by cheap aftermarket exhausts.
I’ll second that opinion, the lack of revs has always made me think the V8 pickups sound like constipated hippos straining to move their weight around
Ford Powerstroke V-8s have the worst exhaust note of most any engine. They always sound like one cylinder is on vacation, not smooth at all.
omg, that’s perfect
I agree, most low-revving V8’s sound like crap to me. If you’re gonna have a V8, I want it to scream like a Ferrari V8 or the BMW S65. Otherwise it’s just extra complexity for no good reason.
I just want to know if they’ve improved the HVAC system. When you turn on the fan (heat or air) it’s like the system has to think about what to do and then eventually the air starts blowing out. My ’94 Avalanche cooled the cabin quicker
That sounds like a purge feature to clear hot air from the ducts before it starts blasting you in the face.
Might be. It does it on heat as well. Living in the desert southwest we use the AC a lot more than the heat (83 on my patio right now), so it’s really noticeable about March through November.
Hey David, did they say anything about transfer case changes/improvements for the 4wdAuto case? People have been having issues with overheating the auto-Tcases in off road situations (even in Rebel trim) that I would not call “rough”. Some have had it happen in moderate snow driving.
I have a quiet hope that this new motor will become an engine swap candidate down the line, along the lines of a domestic 2JZ.. time will tell!
This is where it’s headed I guarantee… cross bolted mains pointed that out to me immediately
Hopefully it will be like the Hemi V8s and a 727 Torqueflite can bolt up.
Helpful on older Mopars as you didn’t need to hack the tunnel and could retain the torsion bar suspension if desired.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t if they want to save some coin in the development process
On a side note… how long is it since you could get a MOPAR here in Australia with a straight six and a bench seat
Depends if you count the Jeep CJ-10.
It came with a bench seat and could be had with a Nissan SD33 Diesel inline-six or the AMC 4.0L six up to 1985.
I don’t know if we got any later Jeeps with a bench than that.
That counts… and it’s wild it’s been that long too… would that be mid-late 70s… i don’t know my year models… both tough engines those
A mate of mine had an SD33 Patrol… was a one mothered forty fathered looking rig…. it ran at 17psi of boost from a Supra turbo and then a 3.0 ranger turbo after that blew up with 28 cracks in the head… animal of an engine
I want this to be a good engine… and hopefully it will be.
What I don’t totally understand is if RAM solved the basic use-case issue that plagued a lot of (if not all) the Hemis. The is issue being extended idle time…
There are arguments back and forth on the causes of hemi lifter/cam failure, but what seems (to me) to be the argument with the most validity is that the Gen3 Hemi doesn’t have an adequate oiling design for extended idling. The engines need to rev a little bit to get the crankshaft to splash lube cam/lifters, and at idle they just don’t do enough.
Case in point, a friend of mine used to be in charge of the entire fleet for one of the top two wireless providers in the U.S. He rolled the dice to convert a portion of his bucket truck fleet to RAM’s with 6.4 Hemis.
These trucks idle all the time, as most real work trucks do, especially in winter. He’s replacing engines in ALL of them before 70,000 miles. His Fords lasted much longer, his GMs lasted much longer, so it is a specific issue to the Hemi.
I have no hate for the Hemi, I’m even considering buying a used power wagon next, but if RAM didn’t do appropriate accelerated life testing at idle-only (and everything else, obviously) they have more problems on their hands.
And I’m not poking fun at just RAM, Ford had an AMAZING motor (6.2) that just don’t die.. then they went with the 6.8/7.3 godzilla motor… which is already having cam issues too.
Hemi owner here, I’m on my second. I purchased the second with a bad cam and lifters (the one David wrote about for Jalopnik a few years back). I’m not disputing the idle time being an issue with the Hemis, it may well be making the issue crop up sooner.
I do have a few things to point out:
1.most of the failures seem to be MDS lifters, the MDS system ADDS ADDITIONAL OIL around the body of the lifter to depress the engagement pins, I’m positive lots of this oil also flows to the rollers and helps lubricate them
2.If this was an oiling problem with the Hemi series of engines, please tell me why MA Mopar cant seem to keep the roller rockers in the Penstatar series of engines together either? To me this seems more like a material spec issue with the needle rollers that Mopar is more than likely buying from China (through Clevite or whatever supplier they use)
3.OEMs don’t want engines to last past the warranty period. That said my first Hemi (an 05 in a magnum) was sold @ 340K on the original cam and listers (not the heads lol)
For point #2, I do think that you are probably correct there. Not just for Stellantis, but Ford had needle roller issue too, maybe others as well. The promise of lower friction is great, but it’s gotta last.
I’ve heard of people starting to do hellcat oil pump upgrades to their 5.7’s/6.4’s and that might help.. not sure.
Again, I do like the hemi design, and I’m looking for a used power wagon so I’d like to get as much info from hemi owners as possible (like yourself).
I’d be curious to know, in a more apples to apples comparison, how many miles the average Ram 1500 owner gets too before cam, valvetrain, head issues have cropped up for the 3.6 vs 5.7. The Pentastar 3.6L, even with all it’s problems, seems to reach higher mileage more often vs. hemis… but clearly I don’t have solid data here.
If you are capable of handling a cam replacement i think it’s a no brainer, the eagle variant of the hemi is very stout and reliable save for the lifter issues.
If i was investing real money (not beater cash like this one https://jalopnik.com/chrysler-built-hemi-engines-with-a-major-engineering-de-1842400890 ) I would make sure to change my oil religiously and send frequent blackstone samples out. I’ve sent two out and everything seems to be good on this jeep so far. I think I have around 220K on it now.
Good advice, thank you!
This sounds like a pretty clear case for hybrids that can run hvac and power accessories without idling all the time. Powerboost or Ramcharger.
A few concerns:
A: That is a LOT of plastic on that intake and elsewhere on the engine. I cannot see that boding very well long-term
B: With lowering combustion chamber temps also potentially means an increase in carbon deposits. And as this is also a direct injection engine, carbon deposit buildup is an almost 100% guarantee.
C: Let’s see what that fuel economy is. At this point I almost expect the improvements to be so minuscule it seems hardly worth the effort of developing such an overly-complicated engine. As in- I’ll bet in the end we’re talking maybe a MPG or two better, if that.
That was my thought as well, however well designed plastic for intakes is totally fine, especially if there aren’t moving parts inside of it. However, lots of plastic with moving parts and fluids… I share your concerns.
Ha, I’m reading this much later in the day, and left a similar comment to yours. The 20 feet of Stellantis-spec plastic piping in that intake system does not bode well. And direct injection valve cleaning isn’t a fun job at all!
The carbon buildup associated with Direct Injection is in the intake ports, not the combustion chamber. The PCV system returns oil vapor to the intake manifold where it coats the intake port and the back of the valves. At least w/ the inline six, it shouldn’t be quite the pain in the butt to remove the intake manifold and walnut shell blast the ports.
Column shifter > Rotary Shifter
Also I don’t get the massive center console praise. Ever sit in the front seat of a HMMWV or H1? Seems like that’s what modern automakers are trying to emulate, especially with full size Trucks.
I’d much rather have a fold flat middle seat with a center console built into the back of said seat.
Agreed and I’ll take it a step further
Column shifter > Console shifter > any push/pull button or rotary knob shifter
Give me the Ram rotary knob over that POS fold down console shifter that Ford puts in the F150 now. It is the cheapest, flimsiest, and ergonomically worst shifter I have ever used. Also when you fold it, it sounds like the plastic inside is actively trying to break. Honestly the column shifters that are still in the Big 3’s trucks feel like crap, so I could do with out them too. The point of the column shifter is to be able to slam it in gear solidly and be on your way, but the current offering are so isolated with rubber and such they just suck to use.
Oh yikes, I forgot about that stupid motorized lever…so dumb/unnecessary.
A rotary shifter is by far the worst mechanism, except for whatever AI-driven mind reading selector Tesla is threatening at the moment.
What’s wrong with the rotary? It looks tactile, intuitive, clearly indicates what gear you’re in, and doesn’t look like it takes up much space.
I’ve never seen so much vigorous defense of something that gets used to put a vehicle in gear and isn’t touched again until going out of gear. Maybe it’s my diesel mechanic roots showing, but I’ve been using push-button Allison shifters for 17 years without issue, as do all the operators of these working trucks, 14 hours a day.
It’s an auto, the shifter doesn’t matter so long as it’s intuitive. The knobs are intuitive cause you’ve been using them for volume and HVAC for decades.
Now if we’re actually gear jamming, NOW I have words about shifter ergonomics.
Well I do remember Top Gear did a scene with a USSR limo with a push button automatic transmission, they when to change gears and the button literally retracted into the dash making it unable to shift into another gear.
What I like about the column shifter is that there are tactile set positions for drive, reverse, park, etc. that are not easy to accidentally bump out of their position, rotary shifters are almost universally too easy to shift into the wrong “gear”.
Personally I prefer a manual transmission but if I don’t have the option I want the least obtrusive shifter that has tactile set positions for the various “gears”, and the best solution I’ve seen so far for that is the column shifter.
Having replaced dozens of worn-out column shifter assemblies that were so vague you needed to verify on the dash which position you landed in, “tactile” is not the word I’d use to describe them.
I dunno man… I’m rooting for Ram, but this engine is trying to succeed with an architecture that is one step more complex than one that BMW tried, and failed (N54) – but on a Stellantis budget and quality track record.
In the heavy-duty world, the engine that most closely resembles this architecture was the Navistar MaxxForce Big Bore 13, which was (massively) cooled EGR, twin turbo, intercooled/aftercooled, dual loop cooling… that architecture failed so massively the entire engine production was shut down for at least a year (Navistar trucks were available only with Cummins power during that period) and the board fired the entire company’s management from middle management on up and replaced them to recover. The replacement engine (N14) had a single VGT and conventional air-to-air charge cooling.
IMO its the cooled EGR that is this engine’s party trick – that’s relatively unusual still in the passenger car world. It took the heavy duty truck industry ~5-10 years to figure out how to do cooled EGR reliably, but maybe Stellantis figured it out right out of the gate. Maybe. If it was me I would have kept the rest of the engine more traditional, with a single turbo and air-to-air charge cooling, and focused all my ‘new tech R&D’ muscle on getting the cooled EGR part right, even if that meant I could ‘only’ deliver 400 hp / 400 lb-ft at 15 PSI of boost, instead of trying to beat both the 5.7 and 6.4 V8 ratings out of the gate.
ugh… those stupid MaxxFarce engines were so unbelievably bad. A previous employer had a brand new IC sleeper cab whatever model, fully loaded up, and it had a MaxxForce engine in it.
It had to have the head removed at least twice before it hit 100k (among other engine issues)… and it was living a pretty easy life.
Funny that a Class 8 OEM made an engine somehow need more maintenance/repairs than a late 2000s BMW.
The MaxxForce engine also cost the CEO of Navistar his job back then, that’s how bad it was.
Chryco already had cooled EGR on their 6.4L truck engines, so it’s not exactly uncharted territory. This is surely more complex, but I wouldn’t compare it to diesel EGR systems. Diesels can (and do) run far, far, far larger volumes of EGR than gas engines can ever dream of, and they do it for different purposes.
Good point, I had forgotten they had cooled EGR on the 6.4. Was that only on the cab and chassis / heavy duty trucks, or did they come in the 2500/3500 Ram’s also?
Don’t know… I was proud of myself just for knowing this level of trivia…
I worked as a tech for International during the Maxxforce years. The engine architecture wasn’t the issue. Navistar was convinced they could meet emissions without DEF fluid. They did this using EIGHTY PERCENT duty cycle on the EGR. This caused massive cooler failures and engines gummed up like you wouldn’t believe.
Once they saw the error of their way, they adopted DEF, significantly reduced EGR duty cycle, shrunk the cooler to a third of the size, and gained some reliability. Man, those Maxxforce two-stage EGR coolers SUUUCKED to change.
You’re right – the fundamental flaw with that engine was the whole concept of trying to meet model year 2010+ NOx emissions without SCR. They thought they could do it with massive amounts of EGR, which required the enormous cooler, and the twin turbos, and… Any engineer with an ounce of humility would tell you that once your design starts requiring those features to meet the requirements, you should stop and very carefully re-consider the requirements. The corporate hubris that it took to insist on sticking to that course despite all the obvious headwinds! The management of that company (eventually) got what they deserved, which is rare, but it is a shame they dragged a storied American marque’s name through the mud before they shuffled off.
As an owner of a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited, it’s tough to get excited about this new vehicle.
It’s an inline 6, not a V6.
I used to hate on RAM for their rotary knob, but they have a really good point
Once you get used to it, it makes perfect sense. Its second nature now. There were a few awkward weeks where I would look back over my shoulder while swinging my arm around next to the steering wheel though
Agreed, but IMO ‘just make it a column shifter’ still makes better sense; it also accomplishes 1) and the human-machine-interface (to use a modern term) is easily and universally understood by all drivers. The knob can be accidentally mistaken for a volume or HVAC knob, requires eyes-off-the-road to know what position it is currently in, etc…
To be clear, of all the modern ‘novel’ implementations of a shifter that differ from traditional column or console shifters the rotary knob is the one I have least issues with… but they still committed the cardinal product design sin of fixing something that wasn’t broken in the first place.
they are really far apart for you to mistake it for an HVAC or audio knob. The rotary shifter is also about twice their size. I would venture to guess that has never happened.
My dad has had it happen in his farm truck.
I’m the youngest of 6 so we had family vans (E-series) growing up, so I can’t speak for everyone…but I’m not yet 30 and if it weren’t for those vans, I’d have never used a column shifter.
If I were encountering one for the first time, I just can’t confidently say I’d know how to use it intuitively. I could figure it out with a little bit of trial and error, but I don’t think I would immediately (with no marks or instructions to the effect) know to pull it toward me before trying to move it up or down, in combination with the brake.
I have to disagree with that. The knob is so quick and makes so much sense. There are three big clicks to the right from park, and the biggest advantage is that you can flick it in and out of gear without taking your eyes off the road. I sell a lot of used vehicles, and of all the wacky and goofy shifters that are out there, people understand the rotary knobs the quickest and like them the best. Toyota, Bmw, nissan, and now GM with thier goofy 4 direction handles and a seperate “P” button are infuriating.
Ill give you a scenario that happens about once a week. 80 year old man checking out a 2023 silverado “Okay, so you hold it like this, and just rest your thumb on that button. No, thats the park button, theres another button you cant see, you have to feel it with your thumb, okay hold that in, and pull it all the way back in one motio-okay, so you put it in sport. Pull back again. Okay, so reverse you just push it forwar-yes i know, pull it back to go forward, push it forward to go backward. Okay, neutral is in between (customer bounces back and forth between drive and reverse twice, gives up) okay there ya go, now when you want to put it in park just push the P button”
Customer hops in a Ram? “Yeah thats the shifter. Park is on the left, drive is all the way right. P-R-N-D. Simple as that. K enjoy your test drive!”
If we’re going that route, I’d rather have buttons. No matter how much I drive them, I just can’t get used to the rotary knobs on the Ram shop trucks we have at work. It’s not as intuitive and I’m always almost changing gears when I don’t mean to/overshooting the gear selection. The buttons on my Ridgeline are way easier to use and much harder to goof on.
I used to think the rotary dial was stupid but I’ve come to love it. Probably consider column shifter second favorite and screw console shifters. I think the placement of the Ram rotary dial is perfect.
Will they be making a NA or single small turbo version of this engine for the base model?
Seems like a natural replacement for the Pentastar given how long that engine has been out there
I’m glad to see that the Tungsten trim rear passenger balls are treated to hi-fi audio
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