Home » The Average Three-Year-Old Used Car Now Costs More Than $30,000

The Average Three-Year-Old Used Car Now Costs More Than $30,000

Tmd Used Car Prices
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Used cars are getting more expensive. It’s not great. While it’s always possible some magical production boom in the United States makes everything grander and cheaper, this flies both in the face of general macroeconomic principles and basic logic. With the exception of deep economic recessions, the biggest driver of the car market is always supply and rarely demand. That’s it. “How many cars are there?” is the key question.

The car market has been through a series of both exogenous and entirely self-inflicted shortages. When the Global Financial Crisis hit in 2008, the Obama Administration’s short-term fix was to encourage people to junk their cars, thus stoking demand and removing supply. Though highly controversial, it worked, and the industry self-regulated a bit. And then the pandemic happened, followed by inflation, followed by whatever it is we’re doing now with trade.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

We haven’t caught up, and maybe we never will. Don’t let this get you down. I’m going to suggest that you can arbitrage your car purchase right now and potentially make a good amount of your money back on a trade-in. It’s more of a thought exercise than anything, but maybe one of you will take me up on it. [Ed Note: It’s best not to take buying/selling/financial advice from us. -DT].

Speaking of thought exercises, do you think you could work a 57-hour workday? That’s apparently what at least one Lemon Law lawyer billed Ford. The automaker is a little less pleased with that and is suing a bunch of Lemon Law firms in California.

And, finally, what the hell happened to Northvolt? Everything. There’s no such thing as “too big to fail.”

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The Most Valuable Thing Many People Own Is Maybe A Nice Three-Year-Old Car

Fed Sales Ratio Chart
Source: St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank

I love charts and graphs. Maybe one day I’ll be successful enough to be able to expense a Bloomberg Terminal. Until then, I have to go look them up on the Federal Reserve website like a schlub. Here’s a great graph. This is the auto inventory-to-sales ratio in the United States since the early 1990s. The higher the number, the more cars in inventory relative to the number of sales.

You can see the Global Financial Crisis in 2008, which caused a drop in sales and an increase in inventory. Then, in July 2009, Cash-For-Clunkers went into effect, and you can see it caused a deep dip in the availability of cars. The ratio stayed within the normal range until the pandemic, when people didn’t buy cars because they didn’t go outside. This quickly went the other direction when automakers cancelled orders for semiconductors, assuming a prolonged period of low demand.

If you bought a car three years ago, chances are you had to pay a lot of money for it. We were still in the trimflation/supply-constrained universe, and so it’s unlikely you got a good deal. As you can see above, we were just starting to recover a bit last year, but higher interest rates and economic uncertainty kept things below that 2-to-1 ratio line.

Tariffs could potentially blow this chart up again, as, according to some estimates, more than a million fewer cars could be sold in the United States.

This is especially troublesome for used cars. The used car market needs people to trade in their cars, but that again requires there to have been a lot of cars sold at some point in the past. In particular, the used car market really likes a bunch of lease trade-ins because those are reasonably well-cared-for cars that aren’t too old, but there are way fewer of those, as we’ve discussed in the past. Most analysts predicted increased used car prices this year, and that was before tariffs.

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According to Edmunds, those predictions were correct:

The average transaction price for a 3-year-old used vehicle was $30,522 in Q1 2025, up 2.3% from $29,844 a year ago — and marking the first time this figure has surpassed $30,000 since Q2 2023, according to Edmunds data. This increase in price was accompanied by longer lot times at used-car dealerships: The average days to turn — the number of days a vehicle sits on a dealer lot before a sale — for used vehicles was 38 days, four more days than a year prior and the highest Edmunds has on record since Q1 2021 with the same 38 days to turn.

The longer lot times paired with higher average transaction prices for 3-year-old used cars show that dealers are likely maintaining higher asking prices and demonstrating a willingness to wait for the right buyers given the lower supply. The effect of the limited number of lightly used vehicles to purchase is reflected in the average age of used vehicles listed on Edmunds rising from 5.7 years old in March 2024 to 6.1 years old in March 2025.

So that happened. Again, this isn’t ideal for consumers. If you’ll indulge me, I think there’s a way to foresee the tariff impacts and make some money if you’re the kind of person who likes a new car every three years.

How To Arbitrage Your Car

The idea of trying to arbitrage a depreciating asset is, of course, silly. No one knows for sure what the car market will be like in three years, and it’s rare that a used car is ever worth more than it was sold for new (although that did happen during the pandemic). What I’m going to argue is that we’re in a narrow window where you can work this tariff situation to your advantage.

Chart Of Predicted Actual Atp
Source: Edmunds

This chart is from the same Edmunds article, and it shows the predicted transaction price for a three-year-old car from cars built in different countries versus what the average transaction price actually is. While I don’t think there’s too much to draw from this chart at the moment, given uncertainty around tariffs, I do think the concept is instructive.

As the authors of the analysis point out, “For shoppers with trade-ins, country of assembly — usually a nonfactor — now plays an unexpected and potentially significant factor in a vehicle’s resale value.” Where your car is made is important.

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President Trump has talked about walking away from USMCA and, at least as of this morning, is threatening/promising to raise tariffs to 50% on the EU. Will that last? I don’t know. Our best guide is the UK-US trade deal, which saw the US folding quicker than a Trump-branded university. Perhaps there’s hope.

The way this works, though, is that automakers might have to raise prices on new cars built outside of the United States or that use a lot of non-USMCA-compliant parts. My reading of the tea leaves shows that Korean automakers are probably going to do well in trade talks, as will Japanese car companies. Germans and other Europeans? I think it could be tougher.

The best possible deal you could make is on a German non-EV right now, I think. Yes, EV prices are super low, but depreciation is going to be super high, and I’d be worried about cars like the Audi e-Tron GT being discontinued. What you want to buy is a European car that will still be in demand in three years, but can’t be built in the United States anytime soon.

A vehicle that might fit the bill is the Audi Q5. There’s no future where Audi isn’t building the Q5. It’s too popular. At the same time, the Q5 is not USMCA compliant in spite of being built in Mexico. People will want Q5s in three years, but tariffs are going to make that car more expensive. Similarly, the Porsche Cayenne or just about any European crossover not built in the US could work.

Assuming tariffs cause car prices to go up and constrain supply, and discounting the possibility of a global recession, you could have a car that’s highly in demand that you bought before prices went up, and is suddenly worth a lot proportionally because the new version of it is very expensive. This requires you to buy a car now and then sell it or trade it in for something that doesn’t have the same tariff impact, of course.

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If you really want to be safe, lease a car for three years and negotiate a lease buy-out price ahead of time. If car values drop, you can just roll into another lease with your negotiated buy-out price. If car values rise significantly, sell the car somewhere else.

The Magical Mystery Tour Of Fictitious Billings

You don’t have to be smart to be a lawyer, but it certainly helps. Some of the best writers I’ve ever met are lawyers. However, there’s being smart and being too clever. Ford is alleging that attorneys bringing Lemon Law claims in California charged “phantom legal fees” when representing clients, which were then passed on to car companies.

Per Reuters, this scheme added up to $100 million of extra fees:

Describing the invoices it received from California lawyers as a “magical mystery tour of fictitious billings,” Ford claimed that attorneys named in the lawsuit took advantage of a statute designed to protect consumers from faulty products, including cars.

Under the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, commonly known as California’s Lemon Law, automakers are required to pay for legal work, court fees and related expenses associated with defective vehicles.

That requirement, Ford alleged, has created an opportunity for lawyers to pad their bottom line by claiming more hours than they actually worked or reporting having been in more than one place at the same time.

The complaint alleged that Steve B. Mikhov was the “ringleader of the criminal enterprise” and that he and Knight Law Group, the Los Angeles-based firm where he was a founding partner, “orchestrated” the scheme.

That’s funny. At one point, Ford claims a lawyer named Amy Morse billed an “ostensibly heroic but physically impossible 57.5-hour workday in November 2016.” Give the person who wrote this a raise, or lemme give them a job. It’s good writing!

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This gets into the give-and-take of consumer protection laws. There needs to be enough incentive for attorneys to take these cases and for companies to feel chastened if they do something bad, but a poorly written law can create ridiculous outcomes like the one alleged in this lawsuit.

Northvolt Was Definitely Not ‘Too Big Too Fail’

Volvo Cars And Northvolt Accelerate Shift To Electrification With New, 3,000 Job Battery Plant In Gothenburg, Sweden
Source: Volvo/Northvolt

Swedish battery maker Northvolt was supposed to be Europe’s answer to China and South Korea. Instead, it went into bankruptcy after most of its partners freaked out and walked away from the company. How did this happen? Germany’s Manager Magazin has a long piece that gets into the timeline of the company, blaming a whole host of factors:

Anyone who reconstructs the initial cracks, the major fractures, and the eventual collapse in the Northvolt case ends up in a chronicle of failure. In the end, a cocktail of greed and arrogance, mismanagement, and a lack of risk-taking by the automakers caused a company that almost everyone considered “too big to fail” to fail. A lesson in how not to do things.

What you get from the piece is a lot of the overconfidence you’d expect from ex-Tesla execs at the height of the EV bubble, including the idea that the company could quickly catch up to CATL by trying to control every part of the process while also ignoring critical but time-consuming processes, resulting in the company constantly being unable to produce cells that would pass automaker tests.

That was bad, but automakers like Volkswagen also play a role here. Rather than commit to Northvolt long enough to see it succeed, they decided early on that it wasn’t worth the risk. VW, in particular, invested early and then decided Northvolt was a competitor to its other battery investment, PowerCo. The break with Volkswagen meant that Northvolt lost some of the purchasing power and industrial know-how it needed.

Northvolt also assumed there would always be a customer and didn’t, according to this report, require automakers to make the kind of serious, binding commitments it needed to stay in business if the market turned. The market slowed and automakers walked away.

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The first warning signs appeared when VW negotiators brought in lawyers who took meticulous minutes. “They made sure to avoid any potentially legally binding commitment,” one participant recalls. For Volkswagen, it wasn’t just about the invested capital—that had already been slightly discounted in the annual report anyway. Rather, the automaker needed the cells. No one had placed such large orders with Northvolt; without the Northvolt cells, new electric models were threatened with postponement. At Porsche alone, the issue was unsold cars worth 4 billion euros. A conservative estimate.

Yikes.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Sometimes the skinny weirdos win. In this case, it’s Pulp and Jarvis Cocker filling in for The Stone Roses at Glastonbury and 1995 and kind of destroying with “Common People.” Enjoy.

The Big Question

What’s the best car arbitrage deal?

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Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
2 days ago

“When the Global Financial Crisis hit in 2008, the Obama Administration’s short-term fix was to encourage people to junk their cars, thus stoking demand and removing supply.”

Lets not forget the other reason for this program: To scrap older, high polluting, less safe gas guzzlers in favor of cleaner, safer, more fuel efficient vehicles.

Echo Stellar
Echo Stellar
3 days ago

I sold my 2022 Accord Sport SE (24k miles) last month to CarMax. They paid $26k which was well above my payoff and I wasn’t driving much. I also was really worried about Honda’s problematic L15BE. I paid sticker for it in Jan 2023, and I replaced it with a very fun 2019 Leaf (those are still a great used deal these days). I’m very pleased to get out of the Accord for minimal damage.

TaylorDane > TaylorSwift
TaylorDane > TaylorSwift
3 days ago

Payoff on my sub-22k mile, ’22 X3 4cyl s-drive lease is $28.5k tax included. Not looking forward to owning it (I just really dont like it) but it’s too far in the money to hand back and I doubt the dealer will share any of the $5k+ equity towards a new lease. But if I buy and flip, then facing a more expensive replacement. Could be in a worse spot tho, just hate getting hosed.

MikeInCO
MikeInCO
3 days ago

Pre-pandemic, we had leased a 2015 Sienna. As the end of the lease approached, I realized it booked for more than the payoff. I went to the dealer I had leased from with a CarMax offer that was higher than the payoff, and they actual beat the offer, and I walked away with a bit of cash. I’d definitely see what kind of offers you can get, even from the leasing dealer, unless your lease expressly forbids it.

Peter d
Peter d
1 day ago

I have sold my in-the-money lease return to a dealer for a much better deal than just turning it in. I sold it to a dealer of the same brand, but a different one than where I did the original deal. You may have to call a few dealers to get one that is willing to play ball.

AllCattleNoHat
AllCattleNoHat
3 days ago

Great song, hadn’t seen it live before. Excellent, thank you.

Scott
Scott
3 days ago
Reply to  AllCattleNoHat

Agreed. Always loved ‘Common People’ but haven’t been super-aware of Pulp. I’m going to rectify that oversight on my part. Thanks! 🙂

Acevedo12
Acevedo12
3 days ago

Made $5k on a 2016 Fiesta ST I bought used for $12k. We were moving to New England, and the roads up here combined with the ST’s stiff suspension would have only made my back worse. So I popped my info into all the “we’ll pick up you car tomorrow” places and Carmax gave me the best deal.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
3 days ago

This is just stating and writing crap.

Scott
Scott
3 days ago

That’s a bit needlessly harsh, no?

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
3 days ago
Reply to  Scott

Also not very specific …

FormerTXJeepGuy
FormerTXJeepGuy
4 days ago

My leased 2021 GMC Canyon AT4 was the best arbitrage deal. Leased September 2020 for $0 down, $389 a month. Sold back to the dealer in February 2022 and got $7k in my pocket.

V10omous
V10omous
4 days ago

What’s the best car arbitrage deal?

As always, it’s having an in with a dealer that lets you order capacity limited stuff that you can resell.

Wish I knew how to do it, honestly.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago

Sorry I am not sure in what world you call Obama’s Cash for Clunkers a success. It just randomly chose exceptable vehicles, most were traded in buy rich people who bought them for the trade in as poor people couldn’t afford to buy a new car. It required vehicles be crushed so even body parts were made not available. Frankly what is success defined as anything but scrap cars that were going to be scrapped anyhow and just give someone $4,500 of taxpayers money? Does anyone realize every dollar the government spends comes from taxpayers 30 years from now as the government has spent $38 trillions more than they have brought in? Can we get an economists to evaluate some of the money oriented stories? Heck even a liberal economist would be great if you can find one. It would have been better just paying salvage yards to crush any vehicles over a certain age and require insurance company to get vehicle up to the original acceptable smog level even if it was just body damage.

Jason H.
Jason H.
3 days ago

Cash for Clunkers had two goals:

  1. Boost auto sales in 2009. It was massively successfully at that
  2. Take older vehicles that consumed a lot of gas off the roads. It also did that.

The acceptable models were not randomly chosen. They had to be: less than 25 years old, registered and insured for at least a year before trade in, in drivable condition, with an EPA combined rating of 18 mpg or less.

My parents traded 1991 E150 van with 300K miles on a 2010 Toyota Prius.

Beto O'Kitty
Beto O'Kitty
3 days ago

They also do not want free healthcare.
Sounds scary.

Widgetsltd
Widgetsltd
3 days ago

Not true. The only parts that were prohibited from sale from a CARS (cash for clunkers) vehicle were the engine, cylinder heads, and rolling chassis. The “hull” of the vehicle had to be crushed within 180 days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System

Last edited 3 days ago by Widgetsltd
I_drive_a_truck
I_drive_a_truck
3 days ago

If you’re gonna pan the writing and content, gotta take your own stripes:

*Sorry,
*Acceptable
*by
*trade-in
*That ‘Frankly’ sentence is both unintelligible and unredeemable as best as I can tell
*trillion
Yes, we do and it sucks, no disagreement aboit the size of our national debt and the implications for future generations
*economist
*money-oriented
*Heck,
It’s not that hard to find an economist on either side of the aisle. If you’re having trouble, try looking harder.
No, it wouldn’t have been better to pay businesses because that wouldn’t have accomplished the point of the program, which was to stoke consumer demand and spending by temporarily increasing their disposable income

Peter Knuth
Peter Knuth
2 days ago

Paul Krugman, perhaps

JDE
JDE
4 days ago

Apparently the best Car arbritage deals are Crusty old Japanese trucks and cars from the midwest drug down to the border and refreshed by low cost body guys. I see the I35 Mexican trains of junkers hauling junkers all the time.

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
4 days ago

All but our lease car are paid off so I guess any of them I sold now would be profit?

Heavy stuff for a Friday, I thought this week was gonna be all kinds of cool car news, we got the Tiguan, Rav4, Vistiq, Ioniq 9, and a Volvo wagon, which are fine, but I feel like the Slate/Telo stuff a few weeks back had more going on, and that was just 2 possible cars.

Not your fault, US cars are boring now, have been for a while, I get it, just there was a little hype and expected a new electric MR2 to kick the vaporware Tesla Roadster’s butt or something.

Hoser68
Hoser68
4 days ago

This stood out to me

“ostensibly heroic but physically impossible 57.5-hour workday in November 2016.” “

57.5 hours? Nothing. I got paid for 27 hours for a single day once (worked 19 hours on the 4th of July and also got 8 hours of holiday pay).

In my industry, there is a 72 hour work week max. During outage seasons, almost everyone bumps up against it regularly.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago
Reply to  Hoser68

Only 24 hours in a day. Anything more is just someone with a specific skill set getting paid a huge some of money to do their job a lot more than 8 hours in a day. Totally deserved money and thanks to the power employees getting us power back in Western PA. But sorry once you are cashing a huge paycheck to get things done the heroes aspect is gone. Just like no professional athletes are warriors or heroes, just grown men playing a childs game for millions of dollars.

Gubbin
Gubbin
4 days ago

They’re heroes for braving the weather and the danger, and staying on the job until it’s all the way done no matter how long it takes or how tired and cold they are.

They’re workers because they get compensated for their labor, and every dang worker should be compensated fairly.

Hoser68
Hoser68
3 days ago

I’m an engineer. My job has always been to support the real workers. Linesmen are a different breed and I have the utmost respect for them. I also know they wouldn’t trust me to hold their ladder. And honestly, I’m cool with that.

Jason H.
Jason H.
3 days ago

24 hours in a day but many time zones. I have worked a day in Europe and then flew home and was on the clock for more than 24 hours in a day.

GLL
GLL
3 days ago
Reply to  Jason H.

There are times lawyers have more than 1 person working on a project. That can pile up the billing hours.

Unimaginative Username
Unimaginative Username
4 days ago
Reply to  Hoser68

Think the most I clocked was 30 hours for a 16-hour day, traveling on a holiday with lots of unexpected delays (at this job I was on the clock while sitting in airport terminals or idling on the tarmac). 8 hours of holiday pay, 8 hours regular pay, 6 hours of pay for 4 hours overtime at 1.5x, 8 hours for 4 hours double overtime at 2x…it mostly covered my bar tab.

Hoser68
Hoser68
4 days ago

Me, I was straight time for OT. To my knowledge, my record for a week (of actual hours in the office) still is the record for that company at 127.2. That was the week before the customer tried to get me fired for being unwilling to work OT.

Peter d
Peter d
1 day ago
Reply to  Hoser68

Let me introduce you to the minimum billing increment. Usually most lawyers will make it 1/10 of an hour (6 minutes) if they spend one minute, you get billed for six, if they spend seven minutes, you get billed for 12 minutes. Now make this minimum an hour or two hours and you can really rack up the hours if you are doing short update work on many cases every day – since they billed 57.5 hours in a day, they are probably using half hour increments, so as long as they looked at 115 cases in a day (or juggled between many cases) they can legitimately bill 57.5 hours in a day.

Drew
Drew
4 days ago

If I wanted to get out of my RAV4 Prime, I could easily get enough to turn around and buy something else that’s reasonable (and maybe have some cash in my pocket). I would also probably need to find a new place to live and a new partner, as she already thinks I buy and sell cars too often because she has seen me in 4 different daily drivers and a pickup in the 8 or so years we’ve been together. She didn’t like me having two vehicles, so I got the RAV to split the difference between my car and my pickup and use it for all (most of) the things.

So my best arbitrage move, much like thermonuclear war, is not to play.

Last edited 4 days ago by Drew
Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
4 days ago
Reply to  Drew

Yup. My wife let me prematurely get out of my GTI (after 2 years) for my Kona N and that was probably the one mulligan I had for our 30s. It was almost certainly not the right time to take a mulligan, because both of our salaries increased significantly a few months later and if I’d been more patient I could probably have weaseled my way into something like an M340i.

But what can you do. I like how Mark from Savagegeese puts it-sometimes you just have to get a car out of your system. I think that’s where I was at. The GTI was a gateway drug to crazier cars. But anyway, she’s next in line…and while I do think I’ll be able to get something else if second baby happens on the timeline we’re aiming for, I’m probably going to have to take one for the team and get an electrified crossover.

The plus is that she says if I get a boring and efficient car we can talk weekend car down the road…but in the near-ish future? That GR Sport RAV4 PHEV is probably the best compromise.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago
Reply to  Drew

Tell her you are a spy or in the witness protection program and need to change up what you drive or the mob or gangs or foreign spies can find you and kill you and everyone, like her, who you hold dead. It isn’t that hard.

Goof
Goof
4 days ago

What’s the best car arbitrage deal?

I mean, aside from theft?

Huja Shaw
Huja Shaw
4 days ago
Reply to  Goof

I think the cool kids refer to it as “boosting.”

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
4 days ago

First things first-that header image is absolutely fantastic. 10/10, no notes. Second, my well cared for 3 year old car is a Hyundai. I can assure you no one is going to fight over it as a trade in.

Toecutter
Toecutter
4 days ago

$30k+ for a 3 year old used car?

Imagine this scenario. Should the currency collapse, most of the cars made post 2016 or so will become unrepairable when tools/parts are unavailable. And there will be greatly fewer new cars bought. Maybe we get another 1930s style crisis and auto production is temporarily retooled for war, and we have to make due with whatever cars already exist. Getting tires could become impossible.

30 years from now, Torch’s Yugo and Changli, the former perhaps modified to run DIY distilled ethanol, may be among of the few things still on the road. I could see Otto proudly driving either in that case.

Huja Shaw
Huja Shaw
4 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

30 years from now, Torch’s Yugo and Changli, the former perhaps modified to run DIY distilled ethanol, may be among of the few things still on the road.

Throw in Mercedes’ collection of Kei and wee cars and the future reboot of the Mad Max franchise is going to be a lot tamer.

Data
Data
4 days ago
Reply to  Huja Shaw

You will ride eternal, shiny and piano black plastic.

Toecutter
Toecutter
4 days ago
Reply to  Data

WITNESS ME!

JDE
JDE
4 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

Problem is new vehicles will also become impossible to get parts to make them in the first place. People would become quite inventive I would imagine. But I think the M85 cars would be fine on distilled Ethanol for the most part. the Yugo Fuel system would likely just deteriorate.

Toecutter
Toecutter
4 days ago
Reply to  JDE

The Yugo fuel system could be replaced with scavenged materials and parts substituted from other vehicles relatively easily.

Most things with irreplaceable computer chips designed to fail and require proprietary tools/software no longer available, upon failure, are going to be repurposed as chicken coops or stripped for scrap, or maybe stripped out and converted to use older engines.

Data
Data
4 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

Didn’t Jason repair the Yugo with a rock and some water hose? I agree with your assertion.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
4 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

I would be worried that people talking advantage of their 2nd amendment rights might just take any opportunities to take other people’s vehicles still working. I’m just guessing but after the zombie apocalypse I think people might be more likely to take another persons property than they do now. Sure no one wants a Changali now but if it is a solution everyone knows JT has one.

Toecutter
Toecutter
4 days ago

Armalite gangs establishing checkpoints are already a thing in many 3rd world nations.

Even a working bicycle could become rare and coveted.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
2 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

And shoes.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
2 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

“Maybe we get another 1930s style crisis and auto production is temporarily retooled for war, and we have to make due with whatever cars already exist.”

So Cuba.

Fasterlivingmagazine
Fasterlivingmagazine
4 days ago

Never thought i would see a defense for “cash for clunkers” on a car enthusiast website. So many good cars gone forever.

4jim
4jim
4 days ago

I walked through rows and rows of XJ Cherokees with intentionally ruined engines after one cash for clunkers program. it was heartbreaking. they were all in such great shape.

V10omous
V10omous
4 days ago

People really need to let this go.

There were a few outliers that made headlines, but the vast majority of stuff scrapped was tired ’90s trucks and vans that would be off the road now anyways.

Cash For Clunkers is almost old enough to vote now, it has approximately zero to do with the current price of used cars.

PlugInPA
PlugInPA
4 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Thank you. It destroyed a few hundred thousand cars seventeen years ago. And like Matt’s chart shows, it pretty much got the used market back to normal grounds.

JDE
JDE
4 days ago
Reply to  PlugInPA

it was the project vehicles that got me though. I did see plenty of half finished vehicles that I would certainly have been fine with finishing, but likely the money the gov paid was more than they could sell them for and as a result the already non running, non poluting project did nothing really for the EPA, it just took more tax money and gave it to car hoarders….to get another car.

4moremazdas
4moremazdas
4 days ago
Reply to  JDE

This is another part of mis-remembering the program and making it out as worse than it was.

To qualify, the car had to have been continuously registered and insured for the previous year and had to be in drivable condition. Cash for clunkers crushed exactly 0 non-running, non-polluting project cars.

JDE
JDE
3 days ago
Reply to  4moremazdas

I am not sure that was exactly true though. but I could be wrong. I have cars that I have registered for years. I barely drive them, but I suppose I could get them to run long enough to get them to a dealer.

4moremazdas
4moremazdas
3 days ago
Reply to  JDE

Yeah, I suppose 0 is a bit of an exaggeration as there were probably examples of cars that someone had kept insured/registered even though they weren’t driving them and simply got them running well enough to get to the dealer, but I specifically remember this stipulation because my dad had a 1 ton Ford van that he’d just barely taken out of service and let the registration go before cash for clunkers, and he couldn’t get any money for it.

There were definitely some great cars crushed, too. My friend’s dad had a gorgeous W124 as his daily that he turned in to buy a pontiac G6.

JDE
JDE
2 hours ago
Reply to  4moremazdas

I recall specifically two very clean looking 70’s Wagoneers. I asked if I could take them for parts at least since they had already filled the motors with something to permanently lock them up. Not dice, said they had to be crushed.

Gubbin
Gubbin
4 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Thank you for saying this.

Jason H.
Jason H.
3 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Exactly right. The most traded in vehicle was a Ford Explorer.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
2 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

The safeguard for “great cars” was a resale value higher that what CARS would have offered.

An additional safeguard for “great cars” were all the Cheap Bastards out there who were willing to scoop up the bargains with resale values lower that what CARS would have offered.

It makes me wonder how many “great cars” are rusting away in some muddy, weedy field because somebody wanted to have it but lacks the time, resources or will to give it the attention it needs.

Last edited 2 days ago by Cheap Bastard
4jim
4jim
4 days ago

I have read recently in some car reviews (sentra?) that cheap cars are so much nicer so they will probably be more expensive even used. Also if people see cars as investments before they see them as transportation they will be more expensive.

Last edited 4 days ago by 4jim
Yzguy
Yzguy
3 days ago
Reply to  4jim

I’ll give an extreme example of a cheap car that the seller clearly believes was an investment:
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/cto/d/vancouver-2013-toyota-corolla-le/7852565470.html
For comparison, a brand new Corolla is $1K more, and if you want to spring for the hybrid LE model, add $6K.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
2 days ago
Reply to  Yzguy

Maybe its the partner who wants the car gone and a stupid high price is just making sure it stays put.

No Kids, Just Bikes
No Kids, Just Bikes
4 days ago

Pulp rules.

Gubbin
Gubbin
4 days ago

They’re touring North America this year!

Lifelong Obsession
Lifelong Obsession
4 days ago

“Arbitrage” my car? Its KBB trade-in value is about $3,000 on a good day. (Chuckles) I’m in danger.

Gubbin
Gubbin
4 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

You been reading too many Matt Levine columns too?

Ash78
Ash78
4 days ago

The best car arbitrage deal is a brand new 4Runner or Tacoma for MSRP, which you can sell in 3 years at a 30% markup. Same advice as the last 25 consecutive years. “The Law Firm of William Shears, Esq.” has a nice ring to it.

Last edited 4 days ago by Ash78
Bartomar McCloskley
Bartomar McCloskley
4 days ago
Reply to  Ash78

If I can sell our ’24 4Runner (last of the 4.0L V6 versions) in 2027/2028 time frame for 30% above what we paid, any ideas on how I pry it from my wife’s hands? The ’05 4runner with 185,000 miles is still going mostly strong, so I guess there’s that to drive still?

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