Good morning! Today was supposed to have been spent helping a reader out, but it sounds like he found a car already. Good thing, too, because there is almost nothing worth looking at in his area. But since I was already there, I decided to stay in that area for today, and look at the two best reasonably-priced used cars I could find.
Friday’s eight-way death match ended in a virtual tie between two of the cars, the 928 and the Ranger. Honestly, that’s a pretty damn good two-car garage, if you think about it. And I’m surprised that 928 hasn’t sold yet; it must be because it’s in the middle of nowhere.
By the way, I know some of you mentioned ranked voting for a multi-car poll like this; I don’t think it’s possible with our current poll plug-in. However, you can always list them off in the comments in order of preference. And really, I prefer that; I like to get a discussion going if possible. I want to know why you vote the way you do.
Now then: You’ve all noticed by now, I’m sure, that I tend to favor western and southern locales when choosing cars. There’s a reason for that: It’s where the interesting cars are listed. Every time I try looking in other parts of the country, especially this time of year, all I find are the same utilitarian cars that may be a good deal, but they’re not any fun to write about. I just can’t bring myself to keep writing about the same SUVs over and over again, even though I know others love doing just that.
However, over the weekend, reader Mr Sarcastic asked for help finding a cheap car, and requested that I take a look in west-central Pennsylvania. No problem; I don’t want to turn this into a regular “what car should I buy?” feature, but I’m happy to help out here and there. The trouble is, there is nothing cheap available in that area. Even going as far west as Pittsburgh, I wasn’t finding much. By upping the price a little bit, I was able to finally find a pair of manual-transmission sedans that should at least not put me to sleep while writing about them. Here they are.
2009 Subaru Legacy – $5,995
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5 liter overhead cam flat 4, five-speed manual, AWD
Location: Altoona, PA
Odometer reading: 114,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
It’s no secret that I’m not a particular fan of Subaru. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they’re so common in my neck of the woods, and they all look so similar. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say. However, most of the Subarus around here are wagons of various types. I don’t see the Legacy sedans too often, and sedans with manual gearboxes even less often. If – if – I were ever to consider a Subaru, this is the configuration I would choose.
Like all Subaru cars sold in the US since the Justy, this Legacy sedan features a horizontally-opposed engine. These engines make for a nice low hood, and a low center of gravity, but they are notorious for leaks, particularly from the head gaskets – the one place you really don’t want an engine to leak. Subaru loyalists (or is that Loyale-ists?) have been making excuses for this issue for years, though it’s certainly not something I’d tolerate unless a “fix” really well and truly fixed it.
This generation of Subaru Legacy also introduced that most soul-sucking of all transmission types: the CVT. To Subaru’s credit, this awful box of mush was an option; you could still avoid it by ordering a proper manual transmission. The specs I found say that this should be a six-speed, but that shift pattern looks like a standard five-speed double-H pattern. Maybe the six-speed was an option.
Condition-wise, it looks pretty good, though in this part of the country, I’d be on the lookout for rust. The aftermarket wheels are also a bit of a yellow flag, but not a deal-breaker. At least it’s a real color; way too many Legacy sedans came out of the factory painted silver.
2013 Volkswagen Jetta – $5,995
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Coalport, PA
Odometer reading: 127,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
I was astonished, when I started researching this car, to discover that Volkswagen’s sturdy but anemic “two-point-slow” four-cylinder engine lasted all the way into the sixth-generation Jetta. A 2.5 liter inline five was also avalable, but this looks like the most basic of base models, so I’m assuming it’s the 2.0 liter four. This is not a bad thing; it’s a good durable engine. Coupled to a basic five-speed manual transaxle, this car should last a good long time, and its maintenance costs will make you the envy of many 1.8t and TDI owners.
This generation of Jetta took a step back from VW’s luxury aspirations, and it shows – this looks more like the VW interiors of my youth. Again, this is a good thing; honest, hard-wearing plastic and cloth were good enough for my family’s ’80 Dasher and ’85 Golf, and they should serve well here.
It looks nice outside, despite the fact that it’s silver. We generally prefer bolder colors around here, but German cars traditionally pull off silver quite well. The Pep Boys plastic wheel covers aren’t doing it any favors; frankly, I would almost rather see the bare black steelies, if the stock wheel covers aren’t an option anymore.
This car is sort of the oppsite of the sort of German cars we typically talk about, complicated high-performance luxury machines with low purchase prices but stratospheric repair costs. This base-model Jetta is much more my type of car: simple, well-engineered, and low-maintenance. But it should still have that solid roadholding and high-speed stability that good German cars are known for.
Both of these cars feel overpriced to me, but I think I’m spoiled by cheap Pacific Northwest car prices. But I’m intrigued by them, and I think I’m going to spend the rest of this week looking for good honest used cars in smaller markets like this rather than seeking out weird cars in familiar places. So if you’ve ever wanted to see cars for sale in your area, here’s your chance: Comment on where I should be looking, and I’ll pick the best two options I can find there.
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I vastly prefer the Legacy, and I love those late 00’s Subaru designs. These Legacies are pretty nice cars all around.
But 6k is a pretty big gamble considering the odds of needing to address the head gasket issue. Also, it’s a freaking 15 year old car from the southern edge of the rust belt. I chose the VW, as even though it’s a pretty sad and basic as hell car, the two point slow combined with the stick is the only modern VW powertrain I wouldn’t run away from, even though it sucks in it’s own, slow way.
Bad experience with VW, worse experience with Subaru.
I’ll take replacing O2 sensors and MAFs all day over replacing head gaskets and wheel bearings. Even if I have to do the VW jobs annually, which is likely.
The Subaru would be more fun, but the VW takes my vote in a close contest.
Hey, it only takes 18″ of extensions and swivel adapters to get to the bolts for the rear bearings. Piece of cake!
I’m not sure why they even need bolts. Everything is seized together with rust within hours.
Oh man. I’ve owned different trim levels of both these cars (’05 Legacy GT and ’12 Jetta GLI). The Legacy did indeed screw me over with head gasket problems on top of many other issues while the Jetta was nearly flawless. I picked Jetta.
I was all set to vote Subie, baby. I generally like them and their AWD just on general principles. In addition to that, I have really bad associations with Jettas involving an ex-wife and some really bad behavior on her part, but I don’t need AWD out here, both are manuals, and that Jetta just looks so clean. VW it is.
I prefer the Subaru. I have had a few of them and never really had any big engine issues with any of them, the interior sucks though. I like that Jetta as well,but in this case I would rather choose 4 wheel drive and an actual colour.
Subie all the way. Had one of these Jettas, in silver, for a week-long rental around Bend and Crater Lake, and it looked so damn generic that I lost it multiple times in small parking lots. I would head out to get it knowing that it was a silver Jetta and the approximate location, and there was nothing for pattern recognition to latch onto. It looked like a dictionary line drawing of a sedan.
Subaru is the easy win for me. I prefer the styling of the Subaru, and I like that it is a non-gray scale color. The aftermarket wheels are a plus for me. I think they look good on this car (I am a fan of black wheels on almost any color car; I would probably go with a slightly smaller wheel diameter, but this is about the style of wheel I would put on this car). I have also driven a comparable Subaru with a manual transmission, and it was fun to drive.
I voted Jetta, but IRL I think both of these are overpriced and I wouldn’t even bother going to look at them.
I didn’t want to go Subie but you didn’t give me much choice with a VW against it. Thanks a lot!
The only 2009 model year Subaru Legacy model with a factory-installed 6-speed manual transmission was the limited-production Spec.B. That car had a turbo EJ25 and this car ain’t it. The car shown here is definitely a 5-speed manual. The manual trans in the 2010-14 Legacy & Outback was the then-new split-case 6-speed. Likewise, the TR690 CVT was new for the 2010 model year on Legacy & Outback. A 2009 Legacy automatic would be either a 4-speed (non-turbo 4-cyl) or a 5-speed (EJ25 turbo or 3.0L 6-cyl).
How many manuals did they make for 2010-2014? I ended up with an 09 Outback because I couldn’t find any manuals for sale from the next generation. Eventually I saw one come up on autotrader, but I had already made my purchase.
Subaru doesn’t usually release sales numbers for stick vs automatic. However, they issued a safety recall for the electronic parking brake on manual transmission (not CVT or automatic) 2010-14 Legacy and Outback. The number of cars recalled in the US was 27,175. So now you know!
Thanks for that. I guess those owners were in it for the long haul because I found none available in a Subaru-rich environment.
Unfortunately the Subaru is made right before they FINALLY fixed the head gasket issue. At its mileage its coming up on to where if the gasket goes its going to go soon. But I really don’t like VWs because they seem to have even worse problems. Plus it looks bland…. So… Subaru for me.
They never fixed the HG on the NA EJ25 engines. My in laws owned a 2011 Outback. It required the HG job when the car was 8 yrs old, then once again at the end of last year. Maybe the indie shop that did the 1st job screwed up but that car was so unreliable that my in laws would not purchase a Subaru ever again.
VW can be a solid vehicle if you know what to look for and a 2.slow / 5 spd Jetta is as reliable as it can get. And it doesn’t have any options so there’s little to go wrong
I will unsurprisingly, never recommend a VW product to anyone. I have to agree on your Subie take since the ones I’ve experienced tended to fall apart have have common issues that were anything but on literally any other contemporary car. They also chew through bearings like nobody’s business. But, Subaru has never quite literally stolen $10k from me, so… Subaru it is.
Being that he’s from a snow ridden area, the Subaru will have a slightly better piece of mind.
Amazingly, it’s the Jetta. Normally I’d never pick a VW when “cheap and reliable” are the criteria, but I agree this powertrain combo is battle tested. The Subaru head gasket issues are well-documented, but for me the wheel bearing thing is bad too. How can that issue be so endemic?
Also the wheels and stickers on the Subie are more than a yellow flag – that’s a guarantee it’s been hooned
I am really torn on this one. So hard to choose between Dr Strangelove and Blazing Saddles as the best of Slim Pickings. Can I ask for the ever-popular “both” option today.
Don’t sleep on “The Howling.” I’d still go with Strangelove.
Blazing Saddles gets my vote: “What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is going on here?!?”
Although critically panned, Slim was the best part of “1941” as the fisherman(?) captured by the Japanese sub.
If this was the best of Slim Pickens, then I’d have to go with “Dr Strangelove.”
Flipped a coin and it came up Jetta, so here we are.
I would normally say nein to any aging VW product, but this Jetta is about as simple as it gets. Between that and an older Subaru with an engine that eats head gaskets like Pringles I’ll take the VW.
Having worked on and driven plenty of both and hating the EJ25, I would still gladly pick even a blown HG Subaru (even this big deal job is only a few hours as long as one has an engine crane and some experience) over pretty much any boring POS from VW.
As previous VW and Subaru owner, I’m going Subaru. Both have their issues, but I’ve driven both of these models and I’d rather roll the dice on a sporty-ish Subaru than a dull modern VW.
I am NOT yanking my car’s entire powertrain just to do simple repairs. I’ll take the VW, and if it has a sunroof, I’ll never, ever open it.
By the way, I think the Sub does have a six-speed. If you zoom in, you can just barely see the sixth position marked on the knob, but the shadow line obscures it. Still doesn’t make up for that ridiculous engine, though.
That’s only needed for the largest of jobs unless one can’t figure out how to google the trick for spark plugs on DOHCs (this one is SOHC, anyway) and still takes less time than most jobs on a VW that will need to be done more frequently. While I’m a hater of the EJ25 in general, HG issues were far more common on the earlier DOHCs and turbos, especially turbos “tuned” and driven by morons. I mean, sure the guy at work had his HGs go a couple months ago, but it did have 370k on it.
In the town I work for, there’s a Subaru dealership. I was there frequently to do inspections during a large construction project.
Over in the shop, every bay had a Subaru with the engine out and on a stand. Every. Single. Bay. Everyday.
OK. You get this is up against a VW, though, right? Those are the worst POS I have ever had the displeasure to work on. I’ve known probably half as many VW owners as Subaru and have seen probably triple the major engine problems and those would be failures (including someone with a Beetle with one of these engines, though at least she was still under warranty), not primarily HGs that are usually replaceable. That’s not counting simple things that last about 1/5 the mileage in a VW that they would in pretty much any contemporary vehicle as well as an endless capacity for electrical problems. I’ve had the plastic parts of headlight connectors literally crumple in my hands on 6 month old cars—something as simple as specifying plastic that can handle the underhood temperatures was beyond their capabilities and all that for a driving experience only slightly better than an equivalent Toyota. Never thought I’d be standing up for the EJ25, but VW owes me blood that I will never be compensated for!
I totally get that, and I even mentioned that I wouldn’t open the sunroof for that very reason.
But my VW experience has been different from others. My Mk V Golf was a paragon of reliability, and never needed a tow during my 155,000-mile ownership. The big complaint I would have is that the A/C compressor control module could be in any one of three different locations, and I couldn’t find it on mine despite trying for months. Even VW can’t say exactly where it is.
On the other hand, my coworker bought a new Outback in ’21, and it’s been on the rack more often than a slab of Gyro meat. It even got a new transmission- at 33,000 miles.
CVTs?! I will not stoop so low as to defend those (though, I have been in the odd circumstance where I’ve defended the driving experience vs automatics with too many gears they continually hunt through, but never their longevity and I only buy manuals, so they’re all bad to me). Yeah, 155k without a tow is in fair territory if it wasn’t something too major. Usually, I hear VW people saying they haven’t had any problems with 60k on them and all I can do is chuckle or recommend they go back in time to where they must come from when that was impressive with a list of Superbowl winners for them to bet on (apologies to Biff Tannen). I have to laugh at this whole conversation as I’m usually the one dumping on the EJ25 (I really liked the EJ22, though). So, what’s next? Nissan vs Mitsubishi?! I haven’t known enough people with Mitsubishis for that.
I will admit that I wouldn’t buy a new VW. In fact, I’m not sure I’d buy anything new anymore that didn’t have a dual-oval “T” on the hood.
A 2.slow with a 5spd manual will do circles over an EJ25 in reliability. And this particular Jetta has very little to go wrong as it’s very basic with no options. The brittle headlight plastics were gone on this generation of Jetta as well (I owned this and the previous generation).
Those Subarus love head gaskets, coolant, wheel bearings and are a pain in the ass to work on. Replacement parts are also more expensive. I wouldn’t do the sparkplugs in them while on the 2.slow it’s a breeze. Your generalizaion about VWs could also be applied to every Subaru but I wouldn’t play that card since I know they fixed the issue on the FA and FB engines. Just as I know the 2.slow / 5spd is one of the most reliable powertrains VW has ever made.
One of the most reliable VW ever made. Think about the relativity of that statement. Plus it’s still a boring as shit car to drive and even you’re calling it a 2.slow. I will never understand the appeal of VWs and Audis. Engineering cultures don’t change quickly and tend to only get worse and VW is king of bad ideas for the sake of it with poor solutions. People make jokes about the reliability of Alfa Romeo, but at least they don’t suck to drive and tend to look good rather than more blandness. And I also hate the EJ25, so it shows how bad the VW experiences of people I know have been as well as me helping them work on the junk that I would pick nearly anything else over one and that’s not getting into my personal dislike of their genesis, the departed Piech, or their emissions cheating.
I guess even the most unreliable brand can have some good apples, don’t you think?
The 2.slow is one of them. Yes it’s slow as say a previous gen Corolla or Sentra. It doesn’t have enough power to harm itself but it will take you places
Their stupid H engines don’t allow for simple repairs, and the AWD transmissions with axles make it a toss-up between pulling the engine to replace the always failing throwout bearing or clutch assembly.
Betta getta Jetta!
K&N air filter sticker on the Subie is good for an extra 20 horsepower. I’m going with that.
My heart says Subaru, my mind says Volkswagen.
I’ve been down the road with problematic Subaru engines. Never again. Guess I’m a PA Dubber now.
I guess I’m an apologist but we’ve owned 4 Subarus with 0 head gasket failures. *touch wood*
Anyways, I voted reliability, I voted Subaru.
You just know other way tonite…
How about throwout bearings or wheel bearings. If no to those, you just didn’t own the cars long enough (which makes you the most wise of all Subaru owners).
No to both of those as well. We’ve had our current Subies for 5 and 6 years. On my old WRX I had only had to replace brakes and oil but it was coming up on 90K miles when it got totaled so I was preparing for timing belt and clutch replacements. Those are regular wear items though.
I’ve had my outback for about 60k miles and have had to to headgaskets, 2 throwout bearings, wheel bearings and for some reason 3 left front brake calipers.
My wife’s forester is at about 60k miles and the bearings are starting to groan and the AC sompressor has died twice.
My BRZ blew its engine entirely at 40k miles and then needed a throwout bearing at ~55k. It was totaled about 3 weeks later.
Also, the wheel bearings are incredibly difficult to remove. The thin steel brake backing plate fits between the knuckle and the bearing, and turns itself into some magical rust weld bonding agent. I’ve had to remove the knuckle and press the bearing out with a hydraulic press. Incredibly frustrating when the youtube Subaru mechanics in CA remove the bolts and the things just drop into their hands.
That’s some terrible luck and I wouldn’t blame you for ditching Subaru after that. We had to rpl both our Subies after Hurricane Harvey in 2017, my wife’s Crosstrek at the time only had 8K miles on it at the time and she took the insurance check back to the same dealership and bought another Crosstrek in the same color. That one is 6yo now with 40K miles. My BRZ I bought 1 yr later and is also at 40K miles. So far no issues with either.
If they still offered a manual transmission we’d probably stick with them. We took the check from the totaled BRZ and went right back to the Subaru dealer for a Forester.
If I have to open my shopping to automatics, there are much more interesting vehicles available.
For myself it’s clutch or GTFO (though I think I’d be open to an EV with no gears) but my wife actually loves the CVT in her Crosstrek.
It’s my wife who’s fanatically three-pedal. It took me 10 years to get her to learn to drive a standard and now she won’t tolerate anything else. She also owned a CVT Civic that needed a new transmission before 20k miles, so we’re both entirely sour on anything CVT.
Edit: Tried to post this a moment ago and kept getting the error message ‘Nonce is invalid.’ Not sure if they were talking about yo or me.
I think “Nonce is invalid” has something to do with the way they use Memberful for the user logins, a refresh usually clears it up.
I’ve tried teaching the wife to drive standard a few times and she’s actually decent at it but if you ask she’ll swear she doesn’t know how. We haven’t had any of the reliability issues with the CVTs that others have mentioned. She equates the smoothness with luxury though. Her mom just got a new Rav4 which I think has an 8 speed auto but every time it shifts my wife winces and complains about how rough it is.
I tried for so long to teach her. We were living in the city and we were looking at the Scion xB – original one. It had a 1.5l engine, and I refused to even consider an automatic in it. We brought it home and within a week she was fine with the third pedal.
She very much enjoys harsh shifts and would miss them.
Sorry for replying to myself, but I happened to be going through some home footage today including gopro footage when I’d take her for a blast in my SR20DET 240SX or my Miata. The smile on her face when the rear steps out drastically on the 2-3 shift indicates I may not be dealing with a normal person. I feel somewhat guilty in my role in bringing her to the dark side, but also no guilt at all.
Do it. Show her the dark side. Borrow a muscle car with a manual valve-body automatic and fire off a quick 0-whatever. Gear shifts are exciting!