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The Biggest Debate We Had All Week – Tales From The Slack

Debate Slack Tales
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You wanna see us argue? You sicko! You’re sick. (Become a member here so you can support us and read the post).

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Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago

Congratulations and well-deserved, Pete.

Team David on the quotes, though. Sorry! (Not sorry.) I think it fits the gravity of a more serious allegation better than a cartoon speech bubble.

If you want soft, though, you know what I’m gonna say: Puffalump.

Last edited 2 months ago by Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago

Congratulations and well-deserved, Pete.

Team David on the quotes, though. Sorry! (Not sorry.)

CSRoad
CSRoad
2 months ago

A bubble is a real quote if comic characters are real.
They imply a two dimensional character is speaking in the mind of the author maybe.

On the other hand, I do think this site is a little “up tight”.

DT claims to have protected the site successfully from legal problems with that attitude. He is probably right, since he is in charge of the bear whistle, there have been no bear attacks in LA.

And then there is muddy situation of an i3 cult member undergoing Jeep therapy.

It’s youse guys comic, so your call. I’m mostly here for the annual tee shirt.

John Gustin
John Gustin
2 months ago

Peter is so good at his job and he helps the site function is so many crucial ways. He’s also super kind and a very talented artist!

(Congratulations, Peter!) – Johnathon.

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
2 months ago

I’m with David on this one. Never give an attorney anything with which to work if you can avoid it.

I’m proud of being Lexis/Nexus free to date.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
2 months ago

I understand that surprise meeting getting fired feeling. Why did noone suggest a question mark after the comment? That leaves it up to the readers to decide.

Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago

If you’re quoting someone, it needs to be exact. Don’t add a question mark if it was a statement.

I guess you could’ve done a non-quote with the question mark, but yeah. The second you put quotation marks or even a speech bubble around the text, people assume that it’s verbatim what the dude said.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
2 months ago
Reply to  Stef Schrader

Or the headline with a question mark then whatever you want in the body? Or quote marks around the statement and question mark outside the marks. It is a beautiful world where you can fall back on actual real English and show how things are slipping.
My big thing I’ve always wondered is if quotation marks are intended to show the intent why aren’t they before the sentence? You read the sentence and then see a question mark now you have to rethink the sentence. However put a question mark before the sentence you know it is a question. Of course WEEWH people will say those presentence words show it’s a question, but then what good is the question mark after the sentence? I’m thinking millions of dollars wasted on keeping union teachers employed. After all they say think of the children when striking for raises. How does that help students? Just wondering.

Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago

I’d try to stay away from question headlines, though. There’s such a running joke about the answer usually being “no” that it’s been enshrined as Betteridge’s Law, and you want people to read the thing.

You can’t use quotation marks only for intent, though, unless it’s an actual, verbatim quote. Whatever’s between those marks needs to be said by the actual person, otherwise you’re opening yourself up to legal risk, not to mention that it’s just not cool to put words in other peoples’ mouths. Adding a question mark outside the quotation marks would look sus as hell (did the person being quoted ask a question or not? or did someone screw up?), not to mention be a visual mess.

As for teachers, that’s another issue altogether. Teachers deserve SUCH better treatment and pay that I can’t fault them for organizing and fighting for a living wage and better treatment. The bigger issue is that we shouldn’t be at this point in the first place. Our schools (at least in Texas) are comically underfunded to the point where the rural district in Mom’s town went to a four-day week, any my friend’s kid in one of the richer suburban districts over here is having to buy her own books in high school. High school! I’ve never, ever heard of that in my life, but here we are where even the nicer districts can’t afford to provide books for everyone, I guess. It’s not unheard of to hear teachers having to buy their own classroom supplies, which is rough when you’re not making enough in the first place. Then there’s the overemphasis on testing that annoyed the hell out of a family friend who said she had to spend so much time teaching kids how to pass one test instead of teaching the broader skills they should learn from her class.

They’re not striking down here — just underfunded and poorly managed. Many teachers can’t afford to live on what schools are paying, so they get frustrated and leave, which is something that’s factored into rural four-day schedules where they’re trying to offer any other perk they can afford (which isn’t pay) to try and woo people into teaching there. It’s frustrating when I see that underinvestment in education translate into the work world, where I’m sometimes having to go over things I learned in middle school with early-career writers. Schools are a public good and I don’t mind us (the public) spending a bit more on them to make sure the next generation is set up to kick ass in life. But I digress. (Pardon the long rant, but I’ve been in shock by how bad it’s gotten for a while.)

Last edited 2 months ago by Stef Schrader
Alex Estill
Alex Estill
2 months ago

They say “think of the children” when striking for additional nurses, counselors, support staff, smaller class sizes, better lunch programs, reasonably effective janitorial services, etc. Teachers have limited options to bargain for anything, and striking is pretty much it so frequently teachers are bargaining for things that are, in fact, for the children. Its just very easy for city/district representatives looking for a good sound bite to say “teachers only want more money”. Instead of hiring necessary support staff, school districts are expecting teachers to perform a multitude of services to support students beyond, you know, educating them (and some people want to add “security guard” and “responsible wielder of firearms” to the list, sheesh). Let’s also consider the lack of new teachers entering the classroom and plenty of teachers leaving because the teaching salaries are not competitive with the rest of the job market.

IMO it shouldn’t be this way. Support services for students shouldn’t need to be part of bargaining a collective compensation package, but often teachers are the only advocates for their students, and as I said above, the best (only) bargaining tool they have is striking.

Source – Chicago resident married to a union teacher.

PS – your initial comment seems way off topic and I probably shouldn’t have responded, but… I’m dumb.

Marc Fuhrman
Marc Fuhrman
2 months ago

Congratulations Peter on your new roll! I’m not sure what is the difference between a Managing Editor verses the role you had before, but I’m sure it’s a good one!

Andrew Bugenis
Andrew Bugenis
2 months ago

Congratulations Peter! Word balloon was correct.

SaabaruDude
SaabaruDude
2 months ago

I also received a promotion in a meeting I initially assumed was heading the other direction. It’s a weird feeling.

Amberturnsignalsarebetter
Amberturnsignalsarebetter
2 months ago
Reply to  SaabaruDude

Likewise- walked in fully expecting to be laid off, but instead was asked to set up a new office in another country (so technically still laid off by one company, but rehired by its sister entity across the sea)

MikeInCO
MikeInCO
2 months ago
Reply to  SaabaruDude

I’ll never forget the day my boss’s boss walked into my office, shut the door, and sat down. I thought “well, I guess I’ll be looking for a job later today.” Instead, he told me that my boss had pointed out I was underpaid for my role and gave me a 7% raise on the spot. Nonetheless, I assume anyone in a position above me that shows up unannounced is there to can me.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
2 months ago
Reply to  SaabaruDude

I remember my last promotion no money but 2 words were added too my title.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
2 months ago

Go, Peter!
So, do you have room for a cool but absolutely beat POS that’ll make your life miserable and give us the content we crave? That’s kinda obligatory, no?

Peter d
Peter d
2 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

I can’t believe that this is the second time in a week my usually mild-mannered self has had to say this: “Fuck Peter T….” but goddamn that guy is morally bankrupt and put multiple businesses I like/use out of business just because he can.

Peter d
Peter d
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter d

Oops, you are talking about another Peter… sorry

CRX89
CRX89
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter d

Arguably did a solid for the Hulkmeister though, leading to this website somehow.

Peter d
Peter d
2 months ago
Reply to  CRX89

I guess that is true, we would likely not have The Autopian if it were not for that asshole. And the Hulk was done wrong, but not that wrong…

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter d

Do you not recall Jalopnik was about cars anymore except for the heads of this site? The rest of the quality staff left. Why? Because the site became car hating America hating socialists. Let’s not go back there let’s erase this thread and hateful trolls.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
2 months ago
Reply to  Peter d

You probably forgot that the courts actually told the previous owner to take down the video which he refused to do and was fined by the courts so much money the site went bankrupt and that allowed the aggrieved party to buy it and put it out of business? The original owner used the site for personal reasons and that is the reason for the bankruptcy. Don’t blame the victims.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
2 months ago

Oh that Peter.

Mike Harrell
Mike Harrell
2 months ago

…it absolutely has to be in quotes so as to make abundantly clear that it was this man who said it.

quotes is most important for attribution

The default option in the comment box for quoting someone is a blockquote which, despite being selected via a quotation mark, doesn’t actually put the quoted material itself within quotation marks. Are you trying to get us sued?

Also, congratulations on the promotion!

ImissmyoldScout
ImissmyoldScout
2 months ago

Go git’em, Pete!

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
2 months ago

Congratulations Pete! Finally someone in charge who knows what the fuck they’re doing!

😉

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago

Congrats, Peter. This would imply that there is now an open position you once occupied. This is a great sign of growth for the Autopian! What will the new employee do???

AlfaWhiz
AlfaWhiz
2 months ago

This comment has been redacted not to violate David’s Code of the Autopian (allegedly).

AlfaWhiz
AlfaWhiz
2 months ago
Reply to  AlfaWhiz

On a serious note, congrats Peter! And I think David has a point on this one, although I personally wouldn’t mind quotation marks within a bubble.

Chronometric
Chronometric
2 months ago

I thought the speech bubble was more clear because it showed the attribution to the Canadian guy. Just putting the statement in quotations didn’t attribute it to anyone.

And this is why life has taught me to hire attorneys instead of going with common sense.

Forbestheweirdo
Forbestheweirdo
2 months ago

(“Congratulations Peter”) – Brandon

MATTinMKE
MATTinMKE
2 months ago

Your work is solid Pete. Have some confidence in yourself, you deserve it.

VanGuy
VanGuy
2 months ago

(“(Congratulations Peter!) – VanGuy” -VanGuy) – VanGuy

A. Barth
A. Barth
2 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

checking syntax… ok

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Please Excuse Meddlesome Dithering Autopian Staffers

VanGuy
VanGuy
2 months ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

This is much better than the one I made when I was younger, Please Eviscerate My Deranged, Annoying Sasquatch.

A. Barth
A. Barth
2 months ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

Peter’s Editing Made David All Sad

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

PEMDAS???

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
2 months ago
Reply to  Parsko

Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction
‘Please Excuse My Dear Sally’ was how I learned order of operations last century -unless it’s something completely different in publishing.

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

LOL, that’s it. I always said Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally too. Never PEMDAS.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
2 months ago
Reply to  Parsko

It’s been decades: had to google—followed by forehead smack 😉

R53forfun
R53forfun
2 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

Huh! In Australia we were taught BOMDAS (or BODMAS) being “brackets of …” MDAS, or DMAS.

Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally is so much easier to remember.

Also: congrats Pete! Well deserved.

Last edited 2 months ago by R53forfun
A. Barth
A. Barth
2 months ago

A speech bubble is, de facto, a visualization of quotation marks. It’s literally an image showing someone speaking. Of course, people will understand that to be a quote.

Hi – part-time magazine editor here: no, it isn’t; perhaps; and no, they won’t. 🙂 At least not to any measure that would bear legal scrutiny. I see three reasons for this.

One, it would be trivial to find any number of similar images with people and cartoon-like speech bubbles that do not represent actual quotes.

Two, the “visualization” statement uses a logical fallacy: “everyone knows that”. How would one go about demonstrating even that most people know [something]?

Three, the lack of actual quotes creates significant ambiguity. One should not rely on the reader to assume they are there.

tl;dr – DT had the right approach here.

PS Congratulations, Peter! Well done!

Bleeder
Bleeder
2 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

“Which magazine, and where can I subscribe?”
– Bleeder

A. Barth
A. Barth
2 months ago
Reply to  Bleeder

Thanks! 🙂

Bruinhoo
Bruinhoo
2 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

Former blogger and current lawyer (with the obligatory ’not your lawyer’) who was about to make a very similar comment regarding the bubble before you beat me to it.

At best, the idea of the bubble as a quotation mark substitute relies on context which is far from universal. If it came down to BMW raising a fuss, regardless of outcome, nobody would end up happy or come out ahead except for whichever law firm Galpin has on retainer.

Bruinhoo
Bruinhoo
2 months ago
Reply to  Bruinhoo

Also, congrats to Peter!

David Tracy
David Tracy
2 months ago
Reply to  Bruinhoo

Folks, I’m not full of shit here. The number of lawsuits I’ve probably kept us out of is significant. (But that’s basically half my job as EIC).

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
2 months ago
Reply to  Bruinhoo

Perhaps I should have pointed my question here then instead of toward the op since you know more about the law:

Ok but how do people know that quotation marks means that you are attributing this to someone else saying the phrase plastered on the top of the page like that?
If you can’t prove they know one way how does this mean the other way is acceptable?

I get this might be the legally accepted method but saying another way doesn’t work because people won’t know does not hold water if you can’t prove that everyone knows the other way. You’re just saying we have to stick with what the legal profession uses, which I guess that’s fine. But like everything else in life it really sucks the fun out of things.

Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago
Reply to  Bruinhoo

Yeah, people put jokey stuff in speech bubbles all the time.

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

I agree, even as a Mechanical Engineer. Lawyers are good at finding those loopholes.

Tbird
Tbird
2 months ago
Reply to  Parsko

Fellow engineer – I think I comprehend legalese ’till I don’t

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
2 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

Ok but how do people know that quotation marks means that you are attributing this to someone else saying the phrase plastered on the top of the page like that?
If you can’t prove they know one way how does this mean the other way is acceptable?

I get this might be the legally accepted method but saying another way doesn’t work because people won’t know does not hold water if you can’t prove that everyone knows the other way. You’re just saying we have to stick with what the legal profession uses, which I guess that’s fine. But like everything else in life it really sucks the fun out of things.

Stef Schrader
Stef Schrader
2 months ago
Reply to  A. Barth

what you said

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago

(Congratulations, Peter!)> Mechjaz

Buzz
Buzz
2 months ago

Congrats, Pete!

-buzz*

*Actual quote

Tbird
Tbird
2 months ago

As a reader, we clearly do not always comprehend the internal (and legal) dynamic of headlines, etc… Thank you for this glimpse into how this sausage is made (as unpalatable as it may be at times). I do not envy your responsibilities but do envy your opportunities. Godspeed to David and ‘Elise’.

3WiperB
3WiperB
2 months ago

“Congratulations Peter!” – 3WiperB

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Credit where it’s due, you’ve kicked off some solid orthography gags

Alexk98
Alexk98
2 months ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

-Mechjaz

Just in case

3WiperB
3WiperB
2 months ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

“I appreciate that people caught it and continued it” – 3WiperB

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