America’s truck buyers have an unquenchable thirst for ever more power and capability. However, many of those truck owners also don’t want to be married to a gas pump. As diesel falls out of relevance worldwide, fans of compression ignition engines can find respite in full-size pickup trucks. All of America’s Big Three sell massive diesel trucks, but only one manufacturer will still sell you a half-ton truck with a diesel. That truck is the Chevrolet Silverado 1500, and you can get it with a diesel for not much more than the average transaction price of a new car.
The diesel engine experienced a renaissance in America during the late 2000s and early 2010s. Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz helped lead the charge in changing the hearts of American buyers on diesel power. Over the course of a couple of decades, the Germans slowly carved out a niche that became pretty close to mainstream.
The diesels of the late 2000s were not like the smoky, clattery, and unfathomably underpowered mills that many firms were slinging in the 1970s. Modern diesel engines are quieter, smoother, and significantly faster. These engines also scored fantastic fuel economy numbers — often untouchable by anything but hybrids — and did so without smoking out poor cyclists or pedestrians. They went the distance, too. If you look on your local classifieds it shouldn’t be too hard to find an early 2000s Volkswagen diesel with nearly a half-million miles and pickup trucks with even more miles than that.
In the 2010s, other automakers decided not to let the Germans have all of the diesel fun in America. General Motors introduced the Chevy Cruze diesel in America in 2014. In the years after the infamous 2015 Dieselgate emissions scandal, GM has seen an opportunity to fill holes left by Volkswagen pulling out of the diesel market in the United States. In GM’s opinion, diesel wasn’t the bad guy. It was Volkswagen that ruined diesel. This led to the launches of diesel crossovers but also the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon diesels in 2016.
These two mid-sizers were the only diesels in their class. Ford didn’t give America a diesel in the newer incarnation of the Ranger, Ram doesn’t sell a mid-size truck in America, and the import brands didn’t sell any, either. Nissan sent a diesel version of the Frontier to the Chicago Auto Show, but that truck remained forbidden fruit.
What America did see was a flurry of compact diesels bolted into the engine bays of half-ton pickups, with each of the Big Three offering their own take. Of those trucks, only one remains and as of publishing, it’s the cheapest way into a new diesel truck in America. That truck is the somewhat unknown Chevy Silverado 1500 with a 3.0-liter Duramax.
GM Diesels Used To Power America
In decades past, General Motors was the undisputed king of diesel power in the United States.
Diesel engines built by GM subsidiaries powered practically every facet of American life. For decades, if you rode in a train pulled or pushed by a diesel-electric locomotive, chances are that the locomotive was built by the former GM Electro-Motive Division. Other EMD-built and powered locomotives hauled goods around America. These trains are still rolling today, long after EMD fell into the hands of Progress Rail and Daimler Truck took over Detroit Diesel.
(Correction: The original publication of this article said that EMDs used Detroit engines. This was only true for some early EMD models. The EMD line succeeded Winton. We regret the error.)
The former diesel domination of General Motors went even further than that. Detroit Diesel produced one of the most popular highway semi-tractor engines of all time with the Series 60, many of which are still in operation today. Detroit Diesel also had its hands in power generation and in the marine industries. General Motors was such a powerhouse that it also dominated the intercity and transit bus industries while all of this was happening.
Due to General Motors’ incredible popularity in nearly all sectors of transportation, it was once entirely possible that you could have ridden a train pulled by a GM product to ride a GM-produced bus to a dealership where you bought a GM car. If you ordered parts for said car, it could have been delivered to its destination in a truck fitted with GM power. If you boarded a boat that weekend, there was a chance a meaty Detroit Diesel provided propulsion. For a while, GM even built highway tractors, too.
General Motors has since dialed back on the scale of its transportation operations. Alongside shaving off the massive EMD and Detroit Diesel operations, GM no longer builds highway tractors or buses. For a while, GM even pulled out of medium-duty trucks, though it has since returned to that market. However, General Motors hasn’t completely forgotten about diesel.
If you wish to read more about the flavorful history of General Motors diesel, click here to read my previous work. For this story, we’re leaping forward to the 1990s and beyond.
GM’s Diesel Pickup Trucks Get Serious
While General Motors spent most of the 20th Century being the first name in diesel, it was late to find the ideal formula for diesel pickup trucks.
In the 1980s, GM lost ground in the diesel truck wars to Ford and Dodge as both mounted large diesel engines to their trucks that delivered both power and fuel economy. GM’s answer came in 1992 with the 6.5-liter Detroit Diesel V8, most of which were fitted with turbochargers. Upgrading the engine and boosting it got power figures up to 215 HP and 440 lb-ft of torque. Unfortunately, like a bad comedy routine, the 6.5 was initially competitive, but as time rolled on the competition once again left it behind. Over at Ford, F-Series trucks of the early 2000s equipped with International Harvester-developed and Ford-branded Power Stroke 7.3-liter turbodiesels were making 275 HP and 525 lb-ft of torque when attached to manual transmissions.
Thankfully, GM already had a plan, from my retrospective:
Before the 6.5-liter Detroit ended production in 2002, General Motors was already working on a successor. In 1997, General Motors and Isuzu entered into a 60-40 joint venture in a new company called DMAX. Detroit Diesel was also sold to Daimler Truck North America in 2000. Together, the companies worked to create America’s first common-rail, direct-injection diesel truck engine. Not only would their engine be a technological leap forward with the aforementioned technologies, but it would hit the ground running with 300 HP and 520 lb-ft of torque, finally putting General Motors past Dodge and Ford’s entries.
The 6.6-liter Duramax LB7 made its debut in 2000, finding itself saddled in 2001.5 three-quarter and 1-ton trucks. Along with a Bosch high-pressure fuel system and direct injection, those early Duramax engines featured aluminum heads, a fixed-geometry turbo, and 32 valves plus a cast-iron block.
The Duramax V8 has been a staple of General Motors’ diesel trucks ever since. However, you might have noticed that I mentioned that the diesel in America’s cheapest diesel truck is a straight-six. What’s going on there?
The General’s plans for post-Dieselgate domination didn’t end with economy cars and diesel-ified crossovers. The company was, in a way, planning for a huge return to diesel power that hadn’t been seen in decades. In addition to the Chevy Cruze, GMC Terrain, and the Chevy Equinox, GM also wanted to put diesel power into the Chevy Colorado, the Chevy Express, the Silverado 1500, the Chevy Tahoe, the Chevy Suburban, and the luxury equivalents of those vehicles. Yes, that meant that until the 2025 model year, you were able to buy a Cadillac Escalade 600D, which had a silky smooth diesel engine under the hood.
The 3.0-liter Duramax has been vital to this expansion and it started with the General Motors Global Propulsion Systems Torino group in Italy. As Automotive News Europe writes, GM Turin was chosen to be the heart of diesel development. The technical center, which Automotive News Europe says was created after the GM-Fiat Powertrain joint venture failed in 2005, has a primary function of reducing engine fuel consumption across the GM portfolio. [Ed Note: Italy has for decades been a dominant force in Diesel development, with the famous VM Motori having built diesels for Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram, Land Rover, Alfa Romeo, and many more. -DT]
The Torino facility was responsible for the development of the Opel 1.6-liter “Whisper Diesel” that was mounted into the Cruze, Equinox, and Terrain vehicles. As GM noted to Automotive News Europe in 2018, it had five diesel engine families in production at the time. Of those diesel families, only the 6.6-liter Duramax V8 wasn’t designed in Torino. Yep, if you have a diesel Colorado with the 2.8-liter four or a diesel Cruze with the 1.6-liter four, engineers at this technical center had a hand in bringing your engine to life.
GM confused some in the automotive industry when it sold off its European operations in 2017, but kept the Torino technical center anyway. GM said it kept the Torino center as it saw the facility as an important piece of GM’s internal combustion development. The facility would later be sold in 2020.
The Technology Behind The ‘Babymax’
Another diesel to come out of Torino before its sale was the 3.0-liter LM2 Duramax straight-six. This engine was built on a scalable architecture allowing diesels with models as small as 1.5-liter three-cylinder engines. YouTuber The RV Connection got an interview with GM powertrain engineers, who explained what made the clean-sheet design LM2 different.
Engineer John Barta started at the back of the engine where the timing system resides. It starts with the crankshaft. A chain connects the crank to the high-pressure fuel pump. From there, another chain coming off of the fuel pump leads to the camshafts. Also connected to the crank and moving down is a wet belt that drives the oil pump. A wet belt is exactly as you picture it. Wet belts are basically timing belts that are constantly drenched in engine oil.
Barta mentions that the oil pump in these engines have a variable displacement, so the pump puts out only the exact amount of oil that’s needed when it’s needed. This prevents waste and according to Barta, is more efficient. The use of a wet belt also aids efficiency. Lewin elaborates:
The wet timing belt promised multiple benefits over a traditional dry timing belt. Lubrication from the engine oil was supposed to reduce wear and noise. More importantly, though, it reduced friction, which would provide an efficiency benefit, with fuel savings of around 1%.
Enthusiasts hate wet belts. Not only does using a wet belt mean that the belt that runs the oil pump is now a maintenance item, but if one of these belts fails, it can clog up the engine’s oil pickup and passages with rubber chunks, potentially killing your engine if you don’t notice it in time.
Thankfully, GM says that the wet belt in the 3.0 Duramax should be replaced every 150,000 miles. That said, replacing the oil pump wet belt does require dropping the transmission, so it’s not the most DIY-friendly procedure.
Moving up, we arrive at the fuel pump. Barta notes that the cylinders get fuel at a maximum fuel injection pressure of 36,500 PSI. Fuel is delivered using a twin-piston pump and rides on the common rail before being fired through injectors located at the very tops of the cylinders. The solenoid injectors are Denso G3.5S units and they’re good for up to 10 injections per combustion cycle. The design of the engine is also designed to shape the combustion of each charge in a way to reduce noise in addition to lowering emissions. GM-Trucks.com has more details on that:
First, the whole engine is state-of-the-art, aluminum head and block with thin steel cylinder sleeves and seven main bearings for the crankshaft. Combustion processes were among the driving forces underpinning design theory, so the cylinder head is essentially flat and the bowl-shaped pistons have zero relief cuts for the valves. That was important for efficiency.
Simulation, and single-cylinder engine studies showed that having very vertical valves would not only allow a simpler bowl shape in the pistons, but that very shape would allow inlet-generated swirl to be maximized at every point. Swirl is produced and governed by dual intake runners feeding each cylinder. Oh, the ceramic glow plugs gave GM the highest compression ratio consistent with power and emissions, as well as allowing ignition to -22°F without a block heater. FYI, most of the engine development and engineering, as well as primary calibration took place in Turin, Italy. That’s GM’s center of diesel excellence.
Barta further notes that the engine’s design allows for a 15:1 compression ratio, which is good for lowering emissions. Like pretty much every modern diesel, a variable geometry turbo allows for power to come on soon and hard. In this case, Barta says you get an electronic actuator and the snail is good for 29 pounds of boost. Further helping the engine along is a charge air cooler and very short piping, meaning there’s a smaller column of air to compress for hopefully faster spooling. At launch, the LM2 Duramax was good for 277 HP and 460 lb-ft of torque. About 95 percent of that torque hits at 1,250 RPM, too, so practically off-idle.
Other technology noted in the LM2 Duramax include swirl valves in the intake runners which helps emissions and a rotary valve to control coolant flow to distribute heating and cooling where it’s needed. GM also says that the use of ceramic glow plugs allows the engine to start at -22 degrees Fahrenheit without a block heater and stay running.
Finally, we arrive at a big question and it’s why the LM2 Duramax is a straight-six when the competition was building V6s. The answer to that is simple. Straight-sixes are buttery smooth and as Work Truck Online reports, there’s greater efficiency from not having to run two banks of engine internals. These diesels were meant to be powerful, yes, but they were also designed to feel and drive similar to a gas engine. GM was so obsessed with smoothing out this diesel that the trucks with these engines have centrifugal pendulum absorber torque converters which are said to further reduce vibration.
Half-Ton Diesel Power
General Motors launched this engine, lovingly nicknamed by enthusiasts as “Babymax,” into its light-duty trucks in the 2020 model year. It joined the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and the F-150 Power Stroke in offering Americans three great choices for half-ton diesel power. Sadly, GM just missed out on being able to compete with the Nissan Titan Cummins, which bowed out of the market in the 2020 model year. Still, for GM this was big news as it was the firm’s first half-ton diesel since 1997.
Here’s what Car and Driver said when the publication drove the truck at the tail end of 2019:
With this new diesel, Chevy now offers five different engines for its half-ton cash cow. And this one’s good. The turbocharged and intercooled 3.0-liter inline-six twists out 460 lb-ft of torque at 1500 rpm and makes a respectable 277 horsepower. The aluminum-constructed powerplant uses a variable-geometry turbo, air-to-liquid intercooling, and a new low-pressure exhaust-gas recirculation system to boost efficiency and responsiveness. And this engine is mighty smooth, thanks to the inherent balance of its inline-six configuration and because it’s mated to General Motors’ 10-speed automatic transmission featuring a mass-damper-equipped torque converter. Yes, this means that the 3.0-liter diesel manages not to shake Chevy’s moneymaker to pieces.
We drove the Silverado 1500 Duramax mostly in and around central Oregon’s valleys, exploring the outer reaches of prudence to maximize fuel efficiency and to experience the truck in a way no sane person ever will. The result was fuel economy that no one is likely to reproduce—an OPEC-enraging 40.6 mpg in highway driving, according to the truck’s onboard computer. To achieve this feat, however, we kept speeds below 60 mph, left the air conditioning off (and soaked our clothes with sweat in the process), folded the side mirrors, shifted manually, and applied only butterfly kisses to the accelerator pedal.
The publication was quick to note that real-world fuel economy wasn’t as crazy. Their Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71 package crew cab scored 26 mpg during regular 75 mph highway driving. That was 1 mpg better than a Ram 1500 Limited with an EcoDiesel
The crazy thing is that the Silverado is now the last diesel half-ton left standing. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel was introduced in 2014 and was killed in 2023. Ford introduced an F-150 Power Stroke V6 in 2018, just to kill it in 2021. The Nissan Titan Cummins died before the Babymax even arrived on the scene.
That Babymax has gotten better, too. As of 2023, it’s now known as the LZ0 Duramax and GM upgraded it with new fuel injectors and new pistons plus new turbo turning. The combustion bowl is also noted to have a new design. Those mild changes are good for a power boost to 305 HP and 495 lb-ft. Car and Driver now notes that if you’re buying an internal combustion Silverado 1500, the diesel has the most torque of the entire range.
Here’s Car and Driver‘s test of the LZ0 showing improvements:
All of that power is delivered in stoic silence too. At both idle and wide-open throttle, the diesel Silverado is significantly quieter than its braggadocious 6.2-liter gas counterpart, recording 41 decibels at idle and 71 decibels at wide-open throttle. We drove both a Trail Boss and a ZR2 (our test numbers are for the latter), and in both cases their aggressive all-terrain tires made more noise than the engine. At least, that’s what we told the cop who pulled us over for speeding about 10 minutes into our first drive in the Trail Boss.
Speaking of speed, the revised Duramax makes for a noticeably quicker Silverado. When we tested the first-generation engine in a 2020 Silverado LTZ, that truck hit 60 mph in 7.1 seconds and ran the quarter-mile in 15.5 seconds at 88 mph. The 2024 ZR2, despite weighing an extra 145 pounds and wearing Goodyear Wrangler Territory MT tires, dispatched 60 mph in 6.8 seconds and cleared the quarter in 15.3 seconds at 89 mph. The revised engine feels even more responsive than those numbers indicate—witness the huge improvement in 30-to-50-mph top-gear passing, which drops from 4.2 seconds to 3.6.
And here’s a comment on that review from someone claiming to be an owner:
As an actual owner of one of these trucks (ok, it’s a 2022 Sierra, crew cab standard bed but same engine… the LM2, so the 277hp variant) I felt compelled to comment after reading other comments.
Who cares about the cost of DEF? It’s $15 for two and a half gallons and that’s good for 2-3k miles or so without towing. That’s, what… the cost of 4 gallons of 87 octane? Add up the 3-5mpg benefit of this engine vs gas over those same 2-3k miles and you’re making money. Where we live diesel costs just a few cents more than 87.
Change the fuel filter every 20k miles, it’s $30 and takes 5 minutes. Big deal.
These things are super smooth and super quiet. The 10-speed transmission helps a lot and makes the truck feel quicker than it has any right to, honestly. We tow a 19 foot Yamaha boat and the truck feels like it does when nothing is behind it. I’ve put a cubic yard of dirt in the bed on more than one occasion and other than probably exceeding payload capacity, there was no change in the driving experience.
We’ve taken two long road trips from our home state of SC, one to Denver and one to San Antonio. Averaged a hair over 26mpg for both and a high of 37mpg in Denver over a 50 mile stretch between Golden and Garden of the Gods. Cruising at 70mph the rpm’s hover around 1600 and rarely downshifts to go up a hill.
My opinion, GM nailed it with this engine.
In terms of fuel economy, the original iteration of the 3.0-liter Duramax is good for up to 29 highway mpg in two-wheel-drive trucks and down to 22 highway mpg in the beefy off-road ZR2 model. Yet, these numbers are much better than the gas engines, where Car and Driver notes that the diesel ZR2 gets 6 mpg more than the 6.2-liter V8 gasoline model.
Something bizarre happened with the launch of these trucks and it’s that the 2020 and 2021 diesels had notably worse capacities than gasoline models. In 2020, a Silverado 1500 with the Babymax cost the same as an equivalent truck with the 6.2-liter V8. Yet, you sort of got a worse truck.
Trucks with the 3.0-liter Duramax were initially limited to 9,300 pounds for towing capacity, a far cry from the 13,400 pounds offered by the 6.2-liter V8 option. Both engines commanded a $2,495 upcharge over a 5.3-liter V8 and it seemed like the 6.2-liter mill was a better deal.
Thankfully, GM rectified this problem as of 2022. The Babymax diesels now tow up to 13,300 pounds thanks to an optional beefier rear differential and an optional heavier-duty suspension package. That’s still 100 pounds short of a properly equipped truck with a 6.2-liter V8, but at least it shouldn’t feel like going diesel nets you a penalty. Car and Driver‘s measured 60 mph acceleration time of 6.8 seconds is also pretty impressive for a full-size diesel pickup truck. That’s nearly as fast as my old Audi TT was. The EPA also rates the current engine as high as 23 mpg city and 29 mpg highway in certain two-wheel-drive trucks (26 MPG combined).
It’s hard to tell from anecdotes on the Internet, but it seems like a lot of folks with these baby Duramax engines do like them. I have found some issues reported including an important transmission recall, faulty injectors, and limp mode issues. However, every vehicle is going to have some that have problems. Those that do like their Silverado 1500 diesels sometimes even say they get 700 miles of range out of the standard fuel tank, which is neat.
With that being said, you have to know that diesels come with lots of caveats. You will have to maintain modern emissions equipment, which can get expensive. You will also have to deal with that wet belt, fill the truck up on diesel exhaust fluid, and keep your fuel filters clean. Oh, and depending on where you live, diesel might be significantly more expensive than gasoline. So, the diesel is something that you’ll want to commit to. Most people will have no problem with a gasser and others can play with the EV version of the Silverado.
The Cheapest Diesel Pickup Truck
So, the biggest question of them all. How much does it cost?
Chevy doesn’t appear to directly advertise the cheapest diesel variant, so I went to the configurator to find out. The cheapest 2025 truck it let me configure was a 2025 Chevrolet Silverado LT with a double cab, a standard bed, and two-wheel-drive. This truck was valued at $48,100 throw in the diesel engine and the price jumps to $51,145. Finally, you have a $1,999 destination charge on top of that before you start negotiating your way down.
That means the cheapest diesel truck in America right now costs not much more than the average transaction price of a new car!
You can get the diesel in a variety of configurations and higher price points. Car and Driver notes that if you configure a Chevrolet Silverado 1500 ZR2 for a base price of $70,995, the engine you get is the diesel. If you want the 420 HP and 460 lb-ft of torque 6.2 V8, that’ll cost you around $1,500.
But let’s say you stick with the cheapest truck. What do you get? Chevy gives a lift of headlining features:
– 13.4-inch diagonal color touch-screen display and 12.3-inch diagonal reconfigurable Driver Information Center
– Front 40/20/40 split-bench seat and 10-way power driver seat
– Available 20-inch painted-aluminum wheels with machined-face and Grazen-painted pockets
– LED reflector headlamps and signature daytime running lamps
– Chevy Safety Assist
Getting a Silverado LT means a largely monochrome color palate, 17-inch alloy wheels, cloth seats, a 3.23 ratio axle, wireless charging, an engine block heater, and Google built-in for your infotainment system. Hey, that’s not a bad truck! The options list is also wild from being able to make your truck a Texas Edition, adding black badges, adding a plethora of active safety systems, different wheels, different axle ratios, and more.
While $51,145 is not cheap, it saves you a chunk of money and gets you more featured compared to other base diesel trucks. A 2025 Silverado 2500HD with the 6.6-liter Duramax V8 starts at $55,409 for a base WT trim with a standard cab, no options, and a long bed. Over at Ram, a Ram 2500 Tradesman with a regular cab, steel wheels, and a Cummins 6.7 is $55,045. Meanwhile, the cheapest Ford F-250 with a diesel is $58,295 and once again, you’re getting a base model work truck.
While I do like the bigger diesels offered in the bigger trucks, it appears that getting the Babymax nets you the biggest bang for your buck. Of course, that assumes the kind of truck you’re looking for is a half-ton to begin with. So, if you’re looking for diesel power in a new truck, want to spend the least amount of money, and don’t need anything more than a half-ton, it looks like there’s really only one choice.
I have 2 friends that got 2023 loaded 1500s with the diesel & swear by the highway milage.
Around town I am getting 19-20mpg, where our Sequioa was getting 10.5 (super short trips).
I know a couple of folks who have owned both EcoDiesels and the BabyMax engines.
The folks with the BabyMax engines have nothing but nice things to say about them. Relatively reliable, great MPG, though the oil changes are pricy through the dealership.
The folks with the EcoDiesels like the MPG, but they constantly break.
Seems like the BabyMax is more of a gem.
What kind of problems have they had with their EcoDiesels? I’m genuinely curious. I bought a very well-maintained 2014 EcoDiesel from a family member last summer. He’d had no issues with the truck whatsoever, and in the 10k miles I’ve put on since then I haven’t had a hint of a problem.
I grew up on a farm where we ran diesels ranging from a 1.6 liter VW to a 903 ci Cummins, so they’ve always seemed like second nature to me. I can’t speak for your friends, but it seems like the people I’ve known who have had major issues with diesels also haven’t had any familiarity with their care and feeding. Although I gotta say that cramming the timing system, fuel pump and oil pump all up against the firewall seems like a truly stupid idea.
I recently hit the jackpot on two common problems with the EcoDiesel: A failed tone wheel for the crank position sensor and an exhaust leak in the flex pipe after the turbo. The first requires dropping the transmission to fix and they couldn’t get parts because it happens so frequently. Mine was the third that a small shop in South Dakota with exactly one tech had done recently.
The exhaust leak was even worse. Because mine was coming up on ten years old the exhaust was seized and they couldn’t remove it without damage, which ended up requiring a replacement of the turbo too. This was a very common failure on the early 2014s, although I believe they were recalled and it was replaced with an updated part that supposedly fixed the problem. However, my local service guys tell me this is still a very common failure point on these.
Oh, and I also had a very common exhaust leak under the truck, which due to the location of the flange tends to burn up the DEF injector, which was another 4 figure repair and made the truck effectively undriveable until it got fixed because when emissions equipment fails you only get 500 miles before the truck won’t start.
Mine was a 2015 custom order that I owned for just over nine years and close to 140k before it stranded me in the middle of South Dakota and stuck me with a 5 figure repair bill. I ended up unloading it to my local dealer for about $500 profit (after factoring in the cost of repairs) because I didn’t want to wait around for the next major failure.
In retrospect I should have gotten rid of it as soon as it started having major problems at least once a year (not all related to the engine), but that was right after COVID and I was hoping to make it last until the market cooled a little. Lesson learned, I guess.
Thanks for the reply – and good to know about a couple of things to watch for. The previous owner of my truck did a software delete for the DEF injection system. Not too environmentally friendly, but I’m curious to see if it helps avoid any emissions control-related issues. FWIW, I live in a jurisdiction that has never even heard of emissions testing.
Belts are fine, dry one’s that is. They can be easily inspected and they are maintenance item. Wet one I think is even worse than shitty chains.
New version is 200k maintenance life, something most owners will never get it.
@mercedesstreeter…..
Were you behind on your word count this week or something ?
What a wordy, laborious read. I’m surprised you didn’t start with: In the beginning, there was light.
Disappointed I had to read through all that to get to the last couple of paragraphs that actually pertain to the topic in the title.
“What a wordy, laborious read. I’m surprised you didn’t start with: In the beginning, there was light.”
Whoa whoa WHOAAAA… You’re jumping ahead there mister!
FIRST… We need to talk about how there was nothing… and then we have to discuss in detail how nothing is actually something… like Seinfeld. And from there we need to discuss how that nothingness was just hanging around and eventually somehow coalesced into something more.
And from there, that leads into talk about the big bang which then led to the light.
A multiple thousand dollar maintenance bill every 150k miles…..no thanks.
Combine that with higher purchase price, a diesel price factor that turns 29 mpg into 23mpg gas equivalent (in my area) and higher maintenance costs just for regular stuff, and overall a half-ton diesel doesn’t sound so great anymore.
What area are you? Everywhere I have seen west of the Mississippi has been $0 – $0.20 more for diesel on average. Go back a few years and yeah Diesel was $1 more a gallon, but not anymore.
Oil changes are 7 quarts same as gas V8s, and nothing special with fuel filters. What “maintenance cost just for regular stuff” is so much more?
Diesel is 70 cents per gallon more in NC.
Must be your area. Gas Buddy (price tracking) shows NC being $2.49-2.59 for regular at the cheapest stations and diesel being $2.76 to 3.13. So still well over my $0.20 more, but only $0.17 if you lived by the Shell in Charlotte off Albermarle rd.
New version LZ0 is 200k maintenance interval, and $1200. How frequently do you get to 200k miles on a vehicle? Even if you bought a used one at 100k, you do the maintenance at 150k, how many more times do you plan to go 150k miles? You act like its oil changes and would happen frequently, but 99% of people will only need to do it once or never.
I blame the regulations that make it more and more difficult for the manufacturers to meet. This and the serious issues with the test procedures that didn’t use the real-world driving experience. Just tying the vehicles to the anchor points and spin the wheels. After the dieselgate, the test procedures were revised to reflect that.
In the 1990s, Cadillac was caught using the dirty trick to pass the emission regulations for its Northstar V8 engine. Switching off the air conditioning during the test lowered the emission greatly. That wasn’t in the regulations and test procedures to test everything, including switching on all of the components and such.
I still drive a 2020 BMW M550d xDrive estate: it has four turbochargers and amazing performance while sipping diesel fuel. Driving between Munich and Nuremberg averaged 6–7 litres per 100 km despite driving at 160–240 km/h on the average. Now, BMW doesn’t offer this engine anymore, citing the “tighter” emission regulations.
The engines have gotten so clean lately, and I don’t see the point of tightening the emission regulations even further. Having CO2 tax doesn’t help anything at all other than restricting our lifestyles. The whole CO2 thing is a huge scam (who benefit from all of the money earned from CO2 tax?).
I was interested in what you had to say until the last paragraph where you completely lost me.
GM needs to build a sports car with the CdA of an EV1, weighing under 3,000 lbs, that has a tuned version of this engine in it.
All of 10 people would buy it.
Nah… it would be at least 1000 people.
This engine is available in the Tahoe and Suburban as well. I feel like a diesel Suburban would be the ultimate road trip/camping vehicle.
College friend drove a squarebody Suburban with the 6.2L diesel. Hit the throttle and it was spy hunter smokescreen baby. Amusingly the body had Chevy badging and the interior was badged as a GMC. Quality control.
I heard that in some years GMC Trucks were actually built more tougher than the regular Chevrolet versions?
I guess that is why GMC hit the ground in GCC Countries before Chevrolet…
Back in the 60s and early 70s the GMC and Chevy were quite different, including unique engines at GMC. When the new C/K series debuted in 73 the nameplates were consolidated .
I see…..
Yes this was a mid ’80s model when the only differentiator between the two was badging.
And I think a ~200 price difference with the GMC being more expensive.
“I heard that in some years GMC Trucks were actually built more tougher than the regular Chevrolet versions?”
They definitely had a line of heavier-duty engines that were specifically designed for heavy duty truck use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_V6_engine
Yes. Thanks for clarifying….
Was this a vehicle purchased new like that, or something rebuilt later from parts?
I’ll bet there will be many used ones for sale with 149k on the odometer, given the cost to replace the wet belt.
Ducati desmos had the same problem when the 16 labor hour valve adjustments occurred every 6K miles. Tons of used bikes for sale with 5900 miles.
I dont really think these engines or the 6.2 are that good at this stage. The 6.2s has issues with rod bearings hence the NHTSA investigation, while the 3.0 I6 LZ70 has also had its share of low mileage engine failures…you can go online.
You do not hear of diesel failures
Short tripping is VERY BAD for both these engines…
New version, LZ0 has 200k belt replacement interval and is $1200. Its not a big deal.
I’ve owned diesels for a bit over 20 years now and currently have an Express 4500 with the 6.6L Duramax. I won’t buy another diesel. Why? Nor much cost savings and emission systems that put the vehicle in limp mode after 500 miles for any little emission issue.
I bought my Express on the East coast and decided to drive it to the West coast instead of shipping it since I had a week of vacation to burn. I figured it would take about 4-5 days but it ended up taking 12 days with 5 visits to Chevy dealerships and a flight home while a dealership ordered emission parts.
Diesel fuel used to be cheap but since the USA switched to USLD diesel has been the same or more than 87 octane anywhere I’ve lived. Right now diesel is 16% more than regular which eliminates most of the fuel savings. Add in the extra cost to purchase, the extra cost to maintain the diesel aftertreatments (I’ve spend $5K), and the hassle of going into limp mode and diesel makes no sense for my use.
Someone hauling heavy loads on the highway tens of thousands of miles per year? Yes, diesel still makes sense for that.
I am getting 80% better fuel economy with the 3.0 compared to the Sequioa it replaced, so the 10% upcharge (in my neck of the woods) for diesel is worth it. The 3.0 is $105 cheaper then the comparable 5.3, yet has more torque then the 6.2. Maintenance costs on the 3.0 are similar to the 5.3, 7 quarts of oil, same cost per quart, etc.
There is a big difference in the 6.6 big diesel and its use case versus the 3.0.
Wait until you start replacing emission components or you have a fuel pump fail and you have to replace the entire fuel system.
Thank goodness it all has a 100k mile warranty…
Duramax 3.0 owner here. (2022, so 1st gen) I tow a travel trailer at about 6000 lbs loaded, as well as some commuting.
I love the truck and engine. It pull super hard when towing, but is barely louder than the gas engine. I’ve towed grades at 112 degrees, and engine and transmission stayed well within the good range. The engine brake is effective.
It’s just a perfect engine for what I use it for. Mileage is excellent if you don’t mash it too much.
Same, LZ0, 6k trailer. I love running along at a leisurely 1800rpm…
When did the average car price jump to $53,000?
When people figured out 84 month loans were a thing. When you’re shopping a payment instead of a price, who cares what the total is as long as you can ‘afford’ the $900/month payment?
When manufacturers had a delayed realization that consumers are perfectly comfortable taking on endless, crippling debt
this would be so dope in a single cab shot bed. you could probably get over 30mpg.
You can get 30+ mpg in a Crew cab short bed if you’re patient enough
Detroit Diesel engines were not used in EMD locomotives. EMD had their own diesels, originally developed by Winton Engines (later renamed Cleveland Diesel). They were both 2-stroke diesels and operated very similarly, but the EMD were far larger (e.g. a popular model had 710 cubic inches per cylinder, whereas a popular Detroit Diesel model has 71 cubic inches per cylinder). EMD 2-strokes also had fabricated blocks, versus DD’s traditional cast blocks.
By the end of the 70s, GM two cycle diesels (both DD and EMD) were not competitive on emissions or fuel consumption with the four cycle competition. GM started to rectify that at DD but realized the capital investments were probably not going to pay off and got out of both businesses.
Detroit Diesel’s 4-stroke replacement, the 60-Series, was actually very successful for on-highway applications. But it was really only intended for on-highway use, so it only came in an inline 6 cylinder configuration and limited displacement ranges. Thus it never reached the ubiquity of the previous 2-stroke engines which also dominated off-highway use with cylinder displacements from 53 to 149 cubic inches, and cylinder counts from 2 to 24.
EMD’s attempt at modernization wasn’t nearly as successful. Its 4-stroke engine, the H-Series, never really shed its early reputation for unreliability, a lot of it due to trying to cast (instead of fabricate) its huge engine blocks.
Nowadays you’ll still see a few Detroit Series 60s hard at work,some of which have been overhauled after 1 million miles. They’ve almost all but been replaced by the DD engine series
(DD-13,DD-15-the most popular one, the DD-16) since those comply with emissions standards,in particular California’s. Of all the heavy truck engine manufacturers that make emissions trucks that use SCR (Selective Catalyst Reduction) in conjunction with DPF,DTNA is the only one that mostly got the formula right.
Don’t forget Frigidaire was once a GM brand as well. They truly dominated the mid-century.
I don’t get how GM once owned and ran so much shit and decided to sell everything off to make lousy crappy cars that needed a government bailout.
Because they tried to extract maximum profits from every business for shareholder dividends and stock price and didn’t invest in R&D to maintain competitiveness. Eventually all their products were mid-tier with bad margins so they had to sell off divisions to concentrate on core business.
I believe Ford owned Philco as well.
Yes, and Chrysler had Airtemp, American Motors (briefly) had Kelvinator, British Leyland had Prestcold
Yes, Kelvinator was part of the Henry Kaiser / Nash conglomerate. Grandfather was a merchant mariner on the Liberty Ships.
Grandma had a mid century Frigidaire in her basement, the badge read “By General Motors” IIRC. The ’70s vintage one we had when I was growing up had a similar badge too.
Henry Kaiser wasn’t Nash, that was Charlie Nash, George Mason, and George Romney. Charlie Nash wanted to retire and wanted Kelvinator CEO George Mason to replace him at his company, but Mason had spent his career at Kelvinator building that company up and didn’t want to leave it. After a few years of back and forth, Nash eventually suggested that they just merge the two companies so Mason could run both of them. Mason later brought on Romney as his assistant and eventual successor
Kaiser was Kaiser-Frazer – later known as Kaiser Motors, Willys Motors, and Kaiser-Jeep. He was in partnership with Graham-Paige executive Joseph W. Frazer, until the Kaisers forced him out over a difference of opinion (Frazer forecast a major sales decline as the company’s products aged and the Big Three launched their new postwar models, and wanted to scale back production to match demand; but Kaiser and his son thought that was admitting defeat and insisted on continuing to run the factory at full capacity, flooding dealers with what turned out to be unsaleable inventory). Also, they had the South American businesses Industrias Kaiser Argentina and Willys do Brasil.
Thanks for the history lesson. I knew both companies were a core of what became AMC.
We had one in our house as a kid that was purchased in 1973 (tied to the building of that house) and finally died in my mother’s basement mid COVID. I had designs on using as a beer fridge in my house, but my mother had it hauled away before I knew what happened.
“I believe Ford owned Philco as well.”
Yes and I grew up with one of those Ford-Philco cabinet TVs… my family’s first colour TV bought around 1976.
Yes, profit alone is not enough. We must maximize shareholder value to the detriment of the core business.
Gotta eek out every last short term dollar.
Thank the Chrysler Brothers for that.
The problem at Frigidaire was that although they weren’t UAW, their IUE union workers got the same wages and benefits. By the 70s, they were at a big cost disadvantage to all their appliance competitors.
I wish fullsize trucks weren’t quite so large, or so expensive, as I’d love a Silverado ZR2 with the 3.0L…while it is under warranty. Since that is well outside my price range, as least while it still has a warranty, I will just admire them when I see them and keep driving and wrenching on my 25 year old Jeep.
If they put this engine in a Colorado/Canyon I’d be all over it. I just can’t imagine dealing with a full sized truck in DC.
If they made it a 2.5 I5 Turbo for the Canyon or Colorado, I’d be the first on the list at my dealership for one
I assume you know more about this stuff than I do given where you work, so I figured I’d ask…is there really any benefit to getting a diesel if you aren’t going to tow, haul, or eat up tons of miles? I only drive 6-8,000 miles a year and probably wouldn’t haul much more than shit for projects around the house and an occasional jet ski or maybe boat tow to help my family out.
The internet says it would be dumb as hell for me to get a diesel because of the added maintenance cost/the sentiment that the powertrains aren’t happy unless you’re beating the shit out of them constantly, but I have to admit…the power band, potential longevity, better fuel economy, and just the overall uniqueness of the engine are very appealing to me.
My family had a diesel E Class (I think an 06 or 07) that my dad bought off his buddy for cheap and I drove a lot back in the early 2010 teens and I fucking loved that thing. I only had to fill it up like once a month, the added torque made it easy to drive around the city, and it pulled like a Mack truck on the highway.
I admit to being the resident anti-diesel guy so take everything I say with as much salt as you want but:
-Modern turbo gas engines approximate the power band of a diesel. A 3.5 Ecoboost is making north of 400 ft-lb at 2000 RPM, just like a diesel is. The difference is it will keep on revving past 3500 or whatever.
-I would be extremely suspect of longevity claims on modern diesels. My experience was certainly the opposite and the engines have only become more complex since then. Also bear in mind that you can often rebuild an entire gas engine for the cost of injectors or some other diesel-only component.
-Unless you’re road-tipping under extreme time pressure, I submit that fuel *cost* is what’s important, not fuel mileage. This is often much less favorable to the diesel. Example: 87 unleaded is $2.89/gallon locally, diesel is $3.29-$3.49. 15-20% higher costs for fuel per gallon (on top of the maintenance cost delta) eats away most or all of the mpg improvement.
-I can’t argue against the uniqueness. Some people like diesel against all rational arguments, just like some of us like V10 engines.
This is all useful information, thanks. If I were to get a truck I’m positive that a reasonably equipped Colorado/Canyon would do absolutely everything I could possibly need and more, but by the time I’d add the niceties I’d want they’re basically the same price as a Duramax Silverado Trail Boss after discounts.
I certainly wouldn’t need anywhere near that much capability and it would be a real hassle to park it downtown (although my work and neighborhood would be fine)…but the gearhead in me is like “3 liter inline 6 diesel cool, 4 popper uncool”. And this may sound odd to a lot of folks but the efficiency thing is more for my conscience than any potential cost savings.
It sounds stupid and it kind of is, but I’d feel less guilty about my carbon footprint if I was getting MPG in the 20s rather than teens…and as I’ve mentioned a few times once you hit 20 MPG or less the highest DC car taxes hit and they’re a whopping 7.5 percent. It’s dumb, but I’d legitimately save money up front with the Duramax because it wouldn’t be taxed as much because it hits 21 city MPG.
That’s ridiculous, but somewhat compelling.
I’d probably just move to the suburbs though.
That’s the plan eventually
When you’re back here asking questions about whether the 3500 GMC or F350 looks better in your driveway, well don’t say you weren’t warned lol.
The longevity of the diesel doesn’t mean anything if the rest of the car is falling apart around it. I’m working on a 70k mile 1997 Ranger right now. Interior looks great. Hood won’t shut right, the undercarriage is rusting out, all the lines are rusting out, it makes strange noises when you jack it it, etc.
In your situation it really wouldn’t make sense because the money you’d save in fuel would be negligible and the cost of maintenance would be a lot more. My cut off for diesel making sense is 12k-15k miles a year. The only real benefit for you would be that diesel would hold its value better.
This is the conclusion that I am also coming to. I think diesel is cool as hell and I actually daily’d a diesel sedan for a while and loved it…but for my needs it’s overkill. On one hand I think driving stuff for no other reason than you think it’s cool and it makes you happy is a good thing and a part of being an enthusiast….but it can only go so far.
Anyway how’s the Canyon? The engine is way less cool but the reviews of it are flowing, I think it looks great, and it’s probably the right sized truck for my needs if I want to be honest with myself.
The Canyon is great, it’s the truck I would buy if I were in the market. When you get equivalent features on a Colorado vs a Canyon, the Canyon is usually cheaper. We only have a few Canyons, they don’t last long on our lots
They made the Colorado / Canyon with a 2.8L Duramax from 2016 to 2022. It was offered in the Chevy Express as well.
Yep, but it died when the new generation came out. I really thought they’d have a new one with the 3.0TD being fairly popular in the 1500s
True but that doesn’t mean they stopped existing. If Nsane wants a mid-size diesel truck to drive around DC there are options available.
As someone who has to routinely travel for work to DC, I hear that. I have given up on rental cars and just use Uber when I’m there, as both traffic and parking are unbearable there.
Hot take: I will not buy another truck with a diesel. It’s just not worth the complication and cost. Modern gas engines do just fine, I think.
Completely agree for the mechanics’ sake. Love the power and efficiency of new diesels. Hate the complexity and random plastic bullshit that seems to have come in the package deal.
Also, GM almost beat Ram and Ford to the diesel half ton game by a decade, but the 2008 recession killed it
That 4.5L V8 duramax would have been a game changer
Almost ? LOL !
You realize that is based on a WAG?
It was only in the working prototype stage but that’s a lot farther than most ideas get in the big 3.
Theres actually a handful of complete engines that were uhh, “dumped” when they killed the program.
These were so close to being ready they were about to be certified for sale by epa when the crash happened.
Iirc, isuzu also had a major hand in its development than motori for the 6er.
But it indeed wouldve beat mopar and ford by a few years and likely had been just as reliable.
They were first with regards to side locker boxes…..unless you count prototypes from other manufacturers….
Ram boxes came out in 2009….
Interesting comment on the gas vs diesel price. Here in middle Indiana it’s 2.70 for 87 and 3.50 for diesel so still a pretty wide price gap.
As someone who works at a GMC dealership, we can’t keep these 3.0L diesels on the lot. They’re cheaper than the 6.2L and pull like a train. The mpg is fantastic and we already have people on their 2nd truck with the diesel and are smitten (lease returns).
The only mistake GM made with this diesel is there isn’t a 4 or 5 cylinder version for the Colorado and Canyon. A mid-size hitting 30s in mpg is a no-brainer
“In GM’s opinion, diesel wasn’t the bad guy. It was Volkswagen that ruined diesel.”
Oh, the irony!! 40 years ago, Diesel wasn’t the bad guy, it was GM that ruined Diesel!! (see: Olds 350 Diesel)
I know that trucks get all the cool engines because the regulations for them are basically a free for all, but holy crap. I’d fucking love a diesel straight six that gets mid 20s fuel economy I just…don’t need a half ton truck. I’d love a hurricane 6 too I just…don’t need a half ton truck.
That 6.2 liter small block is delightful, I just…don’t need a half ton truck and can’t make a Camaro work. Same with the Coyote/Mustang. But then everything that’s right sized for my needs is nothing but 4 poppers unless I want a luxury car, which I am far too cheap for.
I’m gonna need something much bigger sooner rather than later but I just don’t want to deal with a BOF truck in DC. It’d be a huge inconvenience for me and everyone around me. But I also want a COOL ENGINE because ICE is on borrowed time and I think my next gas car will be my last.
But regulations actually don’t allow you to get these results because government.
Just remember that most modern 4 poppers make the same if not more power than the older 6’s and 8’s.
I love a V8, and felt the Ford’s 4.6L SOHC was a good one. My ’96 T-bird was never short of power or torque and got a respectable 25 mpg hwy. My ’94 SHO 5 speed rev’ed to the moon and could run with just about anything 20 years ago. I miss the 3.0L V6 Yamahammer and wish I had never sold that car.
My modern 4 cylinder Camry hybrid can likely out accelerate both of them. Just with no drama.
The Camry is a good car, I do not deny that. Good value for money and very fuel efficient. But if you are just commuting and not towing heavy loads or anything, that would suffice. Same for the Buick 3.8 V6….
We had a 2019 Corolla as a rental and that thing got 30 mpg…..
The wife’s old 2007 Corolla still gets 30 mpg. My hybrid gets near 40, they are great cars as transportation, but lack passion. I do miss the character of the older engines.
Me reading this:
“Hmm, 3.0 litre I-6 Diesel, looks good so far…designed in Torino cool cool…”
“…at the back? That’s a pain, better be gears or something…”
“…dammit, fuel pump at the back? Guess a chain’s not the worst possible option…”
“…you WHAT?” (dog looks at me with concern)
“ABABAWAWABA WET BELT AT BACK OF ENGINE NO” (dog brings a stuffed toy to comfort me with)
Good lord.. I lost focus and skipped to the comments, I missed all the details but that motor sounds fantastic until you need to actually work on it in any capacity.
Most 3.0 I6 loyalists avoid these details….
The only engine with a similar stupid design is the 5.0 Coyote. That too has a belt driven oil pump… and DoD among other things….
GMC/Chevrolet have made a fair number of easy and complicated motors over the years. One is the 3.6 V6 engines (yes, you HAVE to pull the dash to get to the heater core) and the oil filter is in a pretty tight spot….
Another is the Northstar Motors, which had issues until mid 06 or so with their HGs…but those are THE WORST TO WORK ON (in fact, I doubt you can wrench on them at all)…
There are other motors such as the 350 V8 Diesel, HT4100, V6-8-4 (these are all garbage motors anyway), 6.5 V8 Diesel, 6.6 Duramax Diesels (depending on the model however), and others…
That said, the Duramax has been in production for far longer than the 3.0 I6 DMAX, so I assume mechanics might be more familiar with the 6.6 motors in general (of course, it was updated several times so not EVERYONE can keep up with the changes and will have to relearn certain things), even though the L5P itself has gotten complex and complicated over the years…
But I mean, camshaft drive off the fuel pump? I guess you just have to retime if you ever have to service the fuel pump?
Not sure.
One thing is certain. These 3.0 I6 Diesels are NOT easy to DIY…
There is a good reason why we never got these in Qatar or any of the other GCC Countries….
This is an excellent engine to lease and be rid of long before the wet belt needs replacement.
That inline 6 diesel sounds like the perfect engine for a Buick LeSabre
Make mine a hardtop coupe.
Oh – Wait….
I was thinking more “Opel Eco Speedster” or “GM Precept”, with the engine chipped/tuned for about 500 horsepower. 80+ mpg highway/40+ mpg city when driven sanely sure would be nice to go with the capability to pick on hypercars at stoplights, especially at a price tag less than the average $50k new car.
I had forgotten all about the Precept: The GM concept car that Nissan used for it’s early 2000’s Altima/Maxima design inspiration.
If that’s the case, it’s obvious that they kept some of the Precept’s styling cues, and deliberately shaped the final product so the Precept’s aerodynamic slipperiness didn’t transfer over. Seems to be an unspoken rule in the auto industry to never make a super-slippery, efficient car. Even the 1st gen Honda Insight has a CdA that can be matched by an early Saab 96 or Saab Sonett from half a century prior.
“… Seems to be an unspoken rule in the auto industry to never make a super-slippery, efficient car.”
Unless you’re 1980s Audi
Or Opel (See Calibra)
Or Mercedes-Benz EQ division
Or you’re Lucid.
Only Lucid really qualifies. Although Mercedes-Benz EQ division gets kinda’ close, at least with a production car you can buy.
Opel Calibra is where we could have and should have been in the 1920s, at least from a technical/CdA standpoint. See 1921 Rumpler Tropfenwagen.
> a properly equipped truck with a 6.2-liter V8
Don’t hold back, just tell us that higher numbers are what matter to truck buyers. More litres, and more cylinders.
I first parsed it that way and then realized she was referring to the tow package.
Oh, I wasn’t referring to the engine there. Automakers are quick to note that the advertised towing and payload ratings are only for certain options configurations. 🙂
Gotta have bragging rights while you’re sitting in the parking lot with the other suburban dads while your kids are at sportsball practice.