It’s dangerous to ignore the businesspeople. The suits. The number-crunchers. There is a science to economic interactions, and building a company based purely on gut feel is inefficient. At the same time, cold and rational decisions rarely lead to greatness. The trick, usually, is not so much about balancing the two forces as it is about finding harmony between them. That’s what we try to do here.
The pre-pandemic automotive order was built on a rational, free-market view best represented by the quest for a “global car” that could be made efficiently out of parts shipped around the world and then sold to every market with minor variations.
This was going to inevitably fail because of the rise of the Chinese market, but the pandemic surely sped up the process. I mention all this to open The Morning Dump because the new CEO of Polestar did an interview where he basically called out the idealized and efficient globalized car as neither ideal nor particularly efficient.
Will Honda-Nissan-Mitsubishi therefore be a bad idea? Many people think so, and it’s Mitsubishi now that’s wondering if maybe it should sit this one out. The world is all sideways, and execs are saying (anonymously) that potential tariffs on Canada and Mexico will immediately result in slower sales and higher prices for car buyers.
Another big shift is coming to the software that powers modern vehicles, and both Rivian and Volkswagen are looking to become suppliers to everyone else.
‘The Times Are Over Where We Ship Things Around The World’ – Polestar’s New CEO
Polestar is one of the brands I distinctly like and want to be successful for reasons I’m not even sure I can explain. I had a great week with a Polestar 1 once, and I think it’s one of the best cars I’ve ever driven so maybe I don’t want the brand to go away. Maybe?
I’m also a sucker for ex-CEO Thomas Ingelnath’s designs.
The company is currently not in great shape. It was born of the Tesla-inspired race for EV-related stock valuations, and the company basically was able to put concept car design straight into production. Its second product, the Polestar 2, looks great and performs well, but loses out on range to a lot of the competition. Even worse, in spite of being built in China, the company was maybe the biggest loser in the Tesla-BYD price wars. Because it’s Chinese-built, the car doesn’t qualify for IRA tax credits unless leased.
There was plenty of design and heart at Polestar, it just hasn’t become a good business yet.
Ingelnath got tossed and, instead, the company brought in business guy Michael Lohscheller, who has done both the traditional carmaker thing (Opel, VW, DaimlerChrysler) as well as the startup thing (Vinfast, Nikola).
He did an interview with Bloomberg this week and it’s worth reading, so I’ll just excerpt the part I’m interested in this morning. First, in a question about tariffs:
If I go back five, six years, people in our industry were shipping cars around the world. That’s what everybody did. Then logistics topics came up, and people realized that’s not the best way. So a big trend started: let’s produce locally, let’s also localize suppliers. And of course, now the tariffs are totally enforcing this.
But do you localize a car in Europe because of tariffs? That is a key reason, but not the only one. We also localized because of cost, logistics, time to market. The times are over where we ship things around the world.
I tend to think of the MQB-based Mk7 Golf as the ultimate representation of the world-is-flat, Thomas Friedman-esque global car. Sure, that platform was used for a bunch of different models, but an Mk7 Golf is an Mk7 Golf pretty much everywhere. It was such a huge car that there was global production, of course, though cars were assembled using pieces from everywhere. You might have a motor from Mexico, a transmission from Japan, and a bunch of semiconductors from Taiwan.
There’s some logic to this, of course, and Volkswagen was very profitable thanks to getting rid of the old way of rebuilding new platforms all the time. Building cars off a common platform is not going away, but the just-in-time production that typified this era absolutely collapsed with the pandemic.
More than that, local tastes matter, especially in China where, as Lohscheller points out:
It’s also challenged and changed because of customer demands. Take, for example, China. Most consumers in China are first-time buyers. Very different requirements than German or UK or American customer requirements.
So is there one product for the whole wide world? I think that is difficult. It’s not that you always have to do a completely new car, but you’re seeing regionalization of customer requirements.
This feels correct to me, and a good example of this is Tesla. If you just look at a Tesla Model 3 or Model Y, a very slowly changing design, you might assume it’s just one car that goes everywhere, but the simplicity of Tesla’s designs gives a somewhat misleading impression. China has been the first to get new designs, facelifts, and features because Chinese consumers are more demanding in some ways than American consumers.
Western Automakers have had a hard time contending with this and have seen huge drops in sales as they’ve tried, unsuccessfully, to peddle minor variants of popular European models in China. Even Porsche, once beloved by Chinese car buyers, is closing dealers as sales dropped by almost a third last year.
The three biggest individual car markets are China, the United States, and India. Good luck making a perfect car for all three markets.
Mitsubishi Is Not So Excited About This Nissan-Honda Deal Anymore
Damn, am I not going to be able to use this Three Amigos graphic anymore to explain the Nissan-Honda-Mitsubishi tie-up?
Nissan, short on cash and even shorter on prospects, is doing its best to reorganize and downsize. Lately, there has been a big suspicion that Honda, the strongest of the trio, might not go through with a deal out of fear of Renault selling Nissan shares first.
Via Automotive News we’ve got a report that it might be Mitsubishi that is going to stay an independent automaker:
Mitsubishi reportedly plans to sit out the proposed merger between Honda and Nissan in order to work with the two erstwhile Japanese competitors as an independent, outside carmaker.
The move would keep Mitsubishi Motors Corp. as a separately listed entitey on the stock market, distinct from the holding company structure announced last month by Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co., Japan’s Yomiuri newspaper reported Jan. 24, citing unidentifed sources.
Is this just a case of cold feet? Here’s what Nikkei Asia is reporting:
Regarding media reports on Friday that Mitsubishi Motors would not join Honda and Nissan, Mitsubishi Motors President and CEO Takao Kato said on the same day that “nothing has been decided.”
If this is leaking to the press then there’s probably at least some level of discussion about the prospect that Mitsubishi sits out the merger. What this all probably comes down to is Nissan’s ability to restructure this year successfully. If it can weather an uncertain first half of 2025 then maybe it’ll go forward. You know, assuming Renault doesn’t throw a le rochet into the works.
‘Inflation’ And A Lot Of Companies Going ‘Belly-Up” Will Come From A Chinese-Mexico Tariff According To Global Supplier Exec
Will a China-Mexico tariff, if it happens, lead to more job growth in the United States? Probably. Will it result in a lot of layoffs and inflation in the short term? Also, probably.
But don’t just listen to me, Automotive News asked execs at some global suppliers:
“At the end of the day, they’re going to bring a lot of inflation into the U.S. economy,” said an executive at a major global supplier who asked to not be identified due to the sensitive political nature of the topic. “It’s either that or a lot of companies that cannot deal with a 25 percent tariff going belly-up.”
This same exec said that they assumed prices would have to be passed onto consumers as this could happen real fast. It’s even worse for companies in the process of transitioning to an EV economy:
Further reducing demand because of higher costs from tariffs will only make that worse, the supplier executive said, warning that some smaller parts companies that banked on big business from a given vehicle program could go out of business.
“The industrial base has a ton of capital deployed to produce those vehicles, and more likely than not demand for those vehicles is going to slow down even more than it was,” the executive said. “And then tariffs will impact the financial ability of companies to deal with the slowdown in demand. A lot of suppliers could go belly-up.”
To be sure, tariffs wouldn’t be bad news for all suppliers. Companies that produce parts primarily for the U.S. market could benefit from increased demand from customers looking to source locally, especially if they make parts for gasoline-powered vehicles.
The reality is that no one can predict what will happen.
Rivian Might Sell Some Of Its Software
Rivian was built by a dreamer who wanted to make an electric car. With that dream threatened by reality, the dreamer turned to Volkswagen. It seems like Volkswagen is extremely intent on making this partnership work, and part of that plan might be selling the software that VW so desperately needs.
Here’s the info, via Reuters:
“I’d say that many other OEMs are knocking on our door,” said Rivian Chief Software Officer Wassym Bensaid.
Bensaid, who is also co-CEO of the joint venture, declined to provide names of the interested automakers and details on what stage the talks were at.
Rivian’s architecture requires fewer electronic control units and significantly less wiring, reducing vehicle weight and simplifying manufacturing.
Business!
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
The first time I heard ‘Bizness’ by tUnE-yArDs I was like “What the hell is this?” Then I listened to it a million more times. Now it’s one of my absolute favorites and I’ve even had the chance to see Merill Garbus perform it live. It was a great show. Go see tUnE-yArDs.
The Big Question
I’m probably wrong. Perhaps the world gets even more global. Am I wrong? If you don’t want to answer that, what’s the ultimate global car if it’s not an MQB Golf?
Top photo: Depositphotos.com, Volkswagen (not to scale)
The reasoning for not building a single car that can be sold around the world is really shaky. Just because one car is built in China and other countries don’t like Chinese manufacture isn’t enough of a justification to throw out the idea of a world car. You can build the same car to the same core design all over the world, and we’ve been doing it since cars were first invented.
The thing he’s complaining about is that they can’t always find some place that will pay their taxes for them and keep wages down. In the European Union a lot of cars or parts of cars were made in Spain because Spain had low national wages and generous tax breaks for manufacturing. EU countries generally don’t tariff eachother to hell for major goods so these Spanish manufactured cars were sold across the EU without cutting into margins. But if they move to China or the Philippines where the costs are lower even without the tax breaks the tariffs eat into the margins too much.
It’s part of a much larger and much stupider problem where corporations have artificially stalled the increased cost of things by shaving off more and more of the labour costs. Many things in terms of materials cost more when adjusted for inflation than they did thirty years ago because of global market competition, while the cost to manufacture has somewhat reduced because of advances of precision manufacturing. But the final manufactured product, when adjusted for inflation, cost almost the same as it did thirty years ago despite the overall cost before labour increasing. This is because wages are intentionally suppressed to reduce the labour cost. The international competition for materials is also an international competition for labour, as the place where it’s the cheapest to pay people to do something is the place that manufacturing gets moved to. This harms everyone in the medium and long term because economies lose entire sectors, causing more competition in hiring that suppresses wages even further as the number of qualified individuals exceeds the number of positions. Everyone except the rich make less money and pay more for things while being under the illusion that everything still costs roughly the same as it has for decades. After all, a toaster’s still twenty bucks, same as it was in 2005. This illusion started to crack during the pandemic as costs rose in part because labour couldn’t be fucked over since there was no labour that factored into total cost (a lot of automation that had been only partially utilized for a long time was suddenly and finally fully implemented all over the world because there were no humans to exploit more cheaply), but it seems like people already forgot.
It is indeed the MQB Golf (Sportwagen IMO).
Tariffs wil not, repeat not, result in higher prices or lost jobs. This will be trumpeted again and again and agan, at the highest possible volume. It will be reported, deliberately by some outlets and agonizingly uncritically by most other outlets. It will be believed.
Ok. Bob.
Bob clearly does not understand how tariffs work.
Snark Warning:
I can think of one more person you could says that about…
I think you’re misunderstanding. He’s saying that traditional information establishments will parrot the above to try and gaslight people. And people will be gaslit.
Ya know what, I think you are right. I was busy at work and it bypassed my logical filters.
“ ‘Inflation’ And A Lot Of Companies Going ‘Belly-Up” Will Come From A Chinese-Mexico Tariff According To Global Supplier Exec”
Is it just me, or did this headline briefly confuse anyone else? I thought to myself, “Mexico is placing tariffs on China? Huh, didn’t know that”. Of course, it didn’t take me too long to figure out what’s ACTUALLY being discussed here, but I still find the phrasing awkward.
I too thought it was some tariff spat between Mexico and China.
This deal had the potential to be good for Mitsubishi but the problem is the deal isn’t about Mitsubishi. This is a Honda Nissan tie up and Mitsubishi was just along for the ride. I’m guessing Mitsubishi saw how the talks were going and realized they were an afterthought at best. The rather go it alone than be left to wither as a vestigial part of a large conglomerate.
I’ve driven around Europe a bit back in the day, and I’ve driven across America. The vehicle needs are completely different and trying to make a single vehicle do both without costing an arm and a leg is very hard.
US interstates are LONG and boring. But the cities are built to take giant barges. So, having a larger vehicle is very practical here.
Meanwhile, a lot of European towns still have stone arches built to 2RHA (Roman Horse Ass) standard. In cities like these, even a Golf feels too big. However, the shorter distances between cities makes highway cruising less of a big deal.
So, the result is that forever and a week, a mid-sized car by European standards is a Golf, while it’s a Passat in America. Americans want deals on smaller cars so to make a car cheaper and a size smaller leads to less features and /or quality, which re-enforce their bad reputation.
If the heart of the market is a full size different, then it doesn’t make sense to try to make a single car that covers both.
Take the Contour. I had one for several years. It was cramped compared to Camrys and Accords, but not as maneuverable as a Civic. Ford tried to split the difference between the Golf and Passat sized vehicles and ended up with a neither car that wasn’t great for either market.
Exactly – we own a Corolla and a Camry, live about 45 minutes outside of Pittsburgh. For in city driving and parking, I’ll take the smaller Corolla every day. That said, my limit on the interstate in that car is about 2 hours. Beyond that, give me the big, comfy Camry. Also in our more rural area the Camry is a better car. Car choice is complicated by the fact that our hybrid Camry gets better mileage overall than the older but smaller Corolla.
If so, they missed the fact that Tesla’s stock valuations have nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with the theory that Tesla is going to become an Amazon-like tech company that does other stuff. A car company can never have the market cap of Tesla because the car industry isn’t large enough.
And Tesla will never be Amazon, because they are a car company led by a guy who is obviously going insane. Bezos is an asshole, but he’s not a drug-addled idiot. The market cap is made up of smoke and mirrors.
I love Tune-Yards, and also got to see them live a while ago (2018 I think?). Whokill is a brilliant album, and Merill’s voice is totally unique and sort of a one of one experience live.
Agreed. I had never heard of Tune-Yards until they played a set at FFFFest (sigh…RIP) in ~2011-2012 and was like “who the fuck is this person, and how are they thinking of this sound?”
Very good live performance, from someone who had no clue who they were.
Someone’s going to make bank on all of this noise.
And it’s not ‘we the people’.
We, the people, just get screwed.
Tariffs will not “cause inflation.” It will cause the increase in prices of a specific industry, and consumers (as a whole) will simply buy less of the product.
That said, tariffs are stupid. They are economic sanctions for political (or personal) gain. Just need to ask “Who benefits from this?”
Tariffs on their own do not cause inflation, but trade wars do.
It all depends upon the structure of the tariffs. Industry specific tariffs would, to some degree do what you said – depending the industry (a tariff on all imported steel will result in a trickle down effect, as it would be felt by all other domestic manufacturers that rely on steel).
However, the tariffs proposed during the election were not industry specific – they targeted those countries whose products encompass a myriad of industries, and are used daily by a significant portion of the US population.
Widespread price increases will indeed drive inflation.
It depends on what is being taxed.
In the case of cars in the US, prices absolutely will go up. Because love them or leave them, we all NEED cars (outside of a few people in giant cities like NYC that have more than a single bus serving the entire neighborhood.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don’t NEED new cars, we can all get used ones. Only used cars used to be new once. The increased demand on the used car market drives up the prices for people that can’t afford new cars.
A tariff might not drive up the price too much on the new car world as demand slacks off, but it will cause a significant increase in used car pricing.
Now in Europe, where most cities have a robust ability to walk, ride a bike or take public transport, the impact of tariffs on car prices won’t be as bad on the used car market, because a lot more of the population don’t NEED a car than in the US.
I have a genius idea. What if manufacturers made *used* cars? That way we’d avoid the initial depreciation and there would be less pressure on the new car market to supply vehicles to the used car market.
You’re literally describing inflation. Just because people buy less of something it doesn’t mean the price wasn’t inflated. People are probably buying fewer eggs, but egg inflation still exists.
Not being able to afford to buy things you used to because your dollar is no longer worth as much is the whole problem with inflation.
If terrorists were successfully killing the number of people dying from fentanyl on U.S. soil, I think we’d be pretty on board with doing something about that. The tariffs are a motivator for the corrupt shitbags in Mexico to stop the flow of fentanyl from China to Mexico to the U.S. For those companies who moved their production from the United States to Mexico to pad stockholder profits, I say too fucking bad. I refuse to purchase cars made in Mexico, which is why I am no longer a 3 series buyer after many years. I guess it worked for BMW, I bought an M3 made in Germany last year over a regular G20 built in Mexico.
The DEA reports that about 70,000 Americans lost their lives due to opoid overdoses last year, and not all of those drugs were illegally imported. This is 1/4770 of the population. If we slash deaths in half, which is astonishingly unlikely, we will have saved only 35,000 lives. I’d argue that most of those people would have found a way to kill themselves anyway. In a country of 334,000,000 it’s poor public policy to disrupt the national economy while pretending it’s to prevent fentanyl overdoses.
https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2024/12/16/overdose-deaths-decline-fentanyl-threat-looms#
I feel terrible having written this, but I still think it’s true. Take out 100% of deaths due to illegally imported opioids and I think you will have saved only handfuls of lives. Run a shiv though the economy on a pretense, though, and perhaps millions will lose jobs, homes, dreams. I’d listen to a number of arguments either way, but let’s try and bring some reality to the table when we make them.
The corporate world, after legitimate supply constraints resulting from the pandemic, have realized that customers will largely keep buying the same products and services at higher prices. This is true across most industries.
Greed is certainly the largest driver of inflation currently. Got to keep those record profits and C-suite pay.
Prices go up when people raise prices.
Funny how that works. They go up when the government increases taxes too.
I’ll go ahead and say it. The tariffs aren’t fucking happening. Let’s not forget what we’re talking about here. At this point the US government is now more or less filled with and controlled with people who’s only interest is in their own bank accounts. Anything that dares threaten their precious billions will result in the politicians getting their income and control threatened. I am sure right now that lobby groups are going ape shit right now. So no- that orange shit stain can go on and on about those tariffs. Not happening.
I predicted several months ago that there will be a period of sabre rattling, then some handwringing, then some pearl clutching, followed by “They’re not going to do tariffs correctly, so I’m going to save the American people from these evil tariffs!”
And there will be much rejoicing.
But industries shielded by tariffs will make bank. At the expense of everyone else.
This is totally on point with the current admin.
Trump did tariffs last time even though they hurt the US economy. I have no doubt he will do them again.
Hear me out: Ford Mondeo. We’ll bring it to the US and call it the “Ford Contour” and “Mercury Mystique”
No?
OK, let’s do it the other way and try the Scorpio, but let’s call it something else, like “Merkur.” Shut up, that sounds nothing like Mercury.
Positioning? Well, just above the XR4ti, of course!
No it’s not an Escort. Well, I mean, in Europe it is, but our customers don’t have to know that.
One Ford.
to rule them all and in the darkness bind them
One Ford took the E-series vans from us ????
The scorpio wasn’t an escort in Yurp, it was much larger.
Given that the Lion’s share of US aluminum for manufacturing comes from Canada, any company in the aftermarket game is going to FEEL IT. Those billet aluminum parts are about to get a lot more expensive.
I’ll end up looking back on $13.28 for a 24 pack of soda as a deal? I’m still reeling from the rapid increase from $7.99. If only my income had ballooned as much.
Firm disagree. Perhaps what you meant by just-in-time (JIT) was 4000+ mile long material supply chains, in which case yes. The concept of reduced inventory and (internal) customer demand signal-driven production is here to stay. In fact, localizing/on-shoring supply chains will IMPROVE the performance of JIT, rather than eliminate the concept.
That said, there are still benefits from a info/knowledge transfer perspective to maintaining a global standard. 100% unique applications for each market would have massive cost and/or development cycle time issues. I’d expect shared base platforms built by distributed supplier networks with local/regional flavors. Single-source manufacturing (especially final assembly) will gradually phase out for all but the top end of the market.
Design global, customize regional, build regional/local, sell local.
A fine distinction! I was all ready to disagree with you, but yeah, you right.
You got me SaabaruDude, the 4,000-mile long supply chain is what I’m talking about and I shouldn’t have conflated that with the normal sort of reduced inventory/localized supply chain you’re talking about that might, in this new era, be even more common and better.
Exactly what VW is doing today. Same platforms, rather different products for different regions. When you get to the point that your platforms are like a box of LEGO, you can do that fairly easily.
Of course, the problem is that I like their product for other regions rather more than I like what they sell here. That’s a me problem though. I’d possibly buy another Golf, but you couldn’t give me an Atlas for free.
Everyone talks about tariffs as if they were some unexpected, surprise thing.
You did vote for him, didn’t you????
The issue is determining what he says is a lie and what’s something he’s actually dead-set on doing. That’s one of many reasons he is a truly exhausting individual, to put it as politely as I can.
I must have missed the part where he is any different from any other politician in this respect. It is only exhausting if you insist on a media diet composed mostly of hysterics and hot takes about the aforementioned behavior.
I mean, is he still whining about the 2020 election?
Notice how quickly DEM conceded in 2024, despite winning by a far bigger margin in 2020
Most other politicians also lie constantly, but most other politicians don’t threaten to invade Canada, either, so.
And Panama, and Greenland…
Eventually he’ll compromise and only invade one or two of them. That way both sides can be happy.
Then he’ll be celebrated for showing restraint.
You could completely avoid any and all analysis by the media, listen to only the words that come out of his mouth, and still be exhausted, confused, and downright blown away from the complete lack of focus or consistency.
I’ve had to explain this many times to people. It’s not the pundits that are getting people riled up. Nobody my age watches freaking cable news! It’s the goddamn direct quotes.
This is it for me. I don’t watch any cable news, and read very little news online. I go by the things he actually says and I still get called out as a dirty Commie rat.
Still waiting for the part where this is any different from the previous four years. I wouldn’t call forgetting where you are or who you’re talking to a good model of focus and consistency either, but different strokes I guess.
You seem to forget that the other person in question here (who I have zero allegiance to) wasn’t actually running for president this time.
Difference is in not taking a wrecking ball to American institutions and established constitutional precedent. We now have someone whose governing principle is anything he can get away with makes it right. It’s the difference between a belief in upholding an established system of governance vs. I alone have the final say. Attempting to delegitimize all aspects of government other than oneself shall have horrendous consequences for this nation.
True. I’m not one to watch video – especially of people just talking. So generally I’ll read the transcripts and his speeches and debates are almost unreadable word salads.
If voters considered it at all, they probably assumed it was mostly bluster and exaggeration, which he does a lot of, or that most of the really aggressive stuff would be directed more at China
However, as it turns out, it’s a lot easier to beat up on allies that are no threat and are disinclined to fight back
So, to recap, current US enemies list: Canada, Mexico, Panama, and Denmark
Countries the US suddenly seemed to be fairly cool with:
China, Iran, Russia, and North Korea
Oh, they are going to fight back. Hard. And it is going to suck for all of us, because we little people are literally going to pay the price out of our ever-shrinking wallets. I don’t think people realize how much stuff comes from Canada and Mexico. Countries we are in a free-trade compact with. That TRUMP himself re-negotiated during his last term.
The US invading Greenland could potentially get us in a shooting war with the rest of NATO. For damned sure if he takes us OUT of NATO. Article 5… Would we “win” – certainly, we do have the most powerful military on the planet, and it’s not even close. But then we are fucked for God knows how long even after Trump is gone. You don’t commit acts of war with your erstwhile allies, you negotiate a treaty with them to allow you to use the land. Which we already HAVE for Greenland. The whole thing is absolutely, positively, insane.
Trump is some combination of batshit insane and senile. And I want him to just DIE already.
It might lead to civil war. A large number of Americans would gladly fight for Greenland against its fascist invading neighbor.
The idea of a civil war in the 21st Century United States is laughable. Talk is cheap, actually getting off fat asses on either side against a militarized police force, not to mention the ACTUAL military, is nonsensical. This isn’t the 1860s, there is no foundation issue like slavery here, and the amount of force (and organization/supply chain even more so) available to the citizenry vs. the police/military is unbelievably lopsided.
I’m as queer as a rainbow striped three-dollar bill, but I am not taking up arms over the right to marry or any other social issues, nor will 99% of the rest of the populace. Trump will be gone in four years, at most, and I don’t think he will make it that far. And most of his bullshit will be undone, what little he actually manages to get done.
I was being facetious, and entirely agree it won’t go that far in four years. I also don’t think Trump will try to invade Greenland.
But if you speculate that he or someone else did go to such lengths… I don’t think the all the police & military nationwide would stand with him, and there are people who would take up arms perceiving it as a patriotic issue not a social one. I think a lot of regional stalemates and something like the Irish Troubles would be the likely result.
I just can’t see enough Americans being motivated enough to bother. A few wingnuts sure, and the police and the Feds would deal with them in short order.
~77.3M American’s out of ~244.7M eligible voters (31.5%) voted for the President. ~75M voted for Harris (30.5%). 88.4M (36%) who are eligible didn’t vote.
I don’t blame many of those who didn’t vote. There’s literally no point voting if one lives in a non-competitive state.
I voted nevertheless, but just for the sake of it.
What about those who didn’t vote in competitive states?
And how many states are non-competitive because of non-voters?
No.
Mitsubishi choosing not to be on Honda’s team is like picking teams for a basketball game and choosing Sally Struthers instead of LeBron James.
Or it’s like realizing you’re Shohei Ohtani and you don’t belong on a basketball team, even if the star player is LeBron James.
comparing Mitsubishi to Shoehie Ohtani is wildly generous
True, but I was looking for a strong role player who is also Japanese and couldn’t think of anyone else famous enough to average readers.
Mitsu is incredibly capable, but I wonder what role they’d play in a Honda/Nissan mashup.
They are small enough that they could be added to the Toyota family of brands.
Thing is… Mitsubishi have already got into bed with Renault. Their new generation ASX (mid size SUV) is otherwise a Spanish-made Renault Captur. And their new Colt is otherwise a Turkish-made Renault Clio.
“Rivian’s architecture requires fewer electronic control units and significantly less wiring, reducing vehicle weight and simplifying manufacturing.”
That – but as we were informed by the legacy industry insider who told us that the typical car has systems from various suppliers that don’t speak the same language – Rivian and Tesla and Lucid don’t do this.
Everything is developed in-house, which means everything speaks the same language.
This is what makes things just work.
There is definitely a movement afoot in the complex manufacturing industries to pull more and more things in-house. Supplier management has been the biggest pitfall for many big companies for a looooong time, and seems very resistant to any fixes. That’s one of the reasons I’m still bullish on Rivian- other than Tesla they are maybe the only automaker to really go whole-hog on this approach.
This is all fun and games until GM comes along and says no more Android Auto, no more Apple CarPlay.
GM aren’t the only ones.
Just the one we remember the most.
Who else is forbidding us mirroring of our phones?
Tesla has never offered Carplay
Neither has Rivian.
I’m expecting a lot of disagreement here, but:
Hopefully the demise of the global car means less Third World or Euro (semi-redundant) inspired stuff forced on Americans and more of our own thing.
“Our own thing” is crossovers, SUVs, and pickups, which have crept into other markets. I’d rather have coupes, sedans, wagons, hatchbacks.
“Our own thing” is large understressed naturally aspirated V8 engines.
“Their thing” is wheezing 2.0Ts in every size class of vehicle as far as the eye can see.
We are not the same.
CAFE did that, not Euro cars.
The blame is shared, but vehicles designed to be sold in multiple markets are necessarily as constrained as the toughest set of standards, which usually aren’t ours.
Tell that to diesel emissions. North American diesel emission targets are more aggressive than the Euro ones. Which is a bad mix when North America is simultaneously less stringent about the quality of their diesel. Which is somehow worse in the southern states. You’d think the refining would at least be homogenous across the country. Let alone the continent.
Honestly, good.
Diesel should probably be banned in anything under 8500 GVWR.
Your inability to accept fired by compression as our one true lord and saviour is highly disappointing.
Probably my biggest automotive opinion change, driven entirely by repeated and extremely costly failures of supposedly God-tier reliable diesel engines (VW 1.9, Ford 7.3).
I hear people’s words when they say they save money owning diesels, but I don’t believe them for a second.
Some people reject religion, others religion rejects them. It appears you’re in the latter camp for the Temple of Torque.
I have definitely noticed this since getting my first diesel, a 2014 Sportwagen, back in 2020. We drove from southern Indiana to Detroit a couple years ago. Going up we went through Indiana, flat straight roads without many interchanges. Got like 42mpg. Before we went home, I filled up with diesel from a Mobil station. Going home we went through Ohio, lots of speeding up and slowing down through various interchanges, including some stop and go traffic. I got 47mpg. I have never achieved that mileage on a long trip before or since. I often see fluctuations in fuel economy, with some tanks doing better than others despite taking the same routes, such as the routine 140 mile drive to visit my relatives. Once I got 45mpg going 85 in the summer with the ac cranked. Other times I struggle to get 40mpg, even when all conditions are the same.
Where we’ve seen it is in increased regen cycles, injection pump failures, and injector failures. The diesel is trash in the southern states and our trucks let us know it.
Even the much maligned CP4 pump doesn’t fail in Europe, or on North American trucks that run additional filtration.
I wouldn’t say US diesel standards are more aggressive than Euro ones. They are different yes. Euro limits both the weight of PM and the number of particles (PMn). The EPA doesn’t have a PMn requirement but has a slightly more aggressive PM number. Current PM standards in the EU are 0.005 g/km while EPA allows 0.004 g/km.
We use the same aftertreatment systems to meet each with some variation in tuning. The big difference is gasoline engines where the EU has PM requirements for both diesel and gasoline engines so in the EU most DI turbo gas engines have particulate filters. The US won’t require gas particulate filters until Tier 4 phases in from 2027 to 2031.
That’s weird.
Because for a while, you could not get a 6 cylinder or V8 E Class coupe/cabriolet in many/all European markets – but you could in the US.
To me – a @374hp 6 is more than sufficient – a big gas guzzling V8 is just unnecessary.
I’ll stick my neck out with you and agree. Euro design was cool and admirable up until 10 years ago, but in my recent trips across the pond I’ve just been completely bored by anything on the road newer than that. You have either some flavor of interchangeable boring econobox for the masses, or complete wanker-tier SUV/big sedan-saloon for the rich managerial class people, and nothing in between.
I saw a neat Vauxhall the other day. It was striking enough that I had to ask the driver what it was. I think it was a Mokka.
What amber lights did to you? lol the interesting things came from the euro market but recently it just screens and black piano touches everywhere.
“Interesting” just means “out of the ordinary” or “forbidden fruit”.
When I lived in Europe, they found hatchbacks and wagons boring, and trucks and muscle cars cool. It’s all about what you can get vs what’s trapped on the other side of the ocean.
I may be wrong here (it’s a near certainty) but I look at this issue and think it might revive more interesting cars regardless of the market they come from.
I’ll use the recent Golf GTi as an example. The European regs basically killed the manual transmission in that car and it was decided there isn’t enough volume to justify building it in the US even when the US take rate was roughly 50% for the manual. Now extrapolate across a number of other features, styling, engine choices etc and that is what I hope the demise of a global car really means; more niche choices that previously were seen as too costly.
I doubt I’m right but I just hope for more choice. More weird body style variants like we used to get. I don’t care if Ford or Fiat makes it just give me options.
Completely cosign this, even if it is optimistic.
I’m not against Euro-spec vehicles at all. My experience has been that their cars “scale up” to our roads a lot better than our cars “scale down” to theirs.
But ignoring that for a second, if we can make it work, then every market needs it own vehicles that make sense for the nation’s infrastructure, typical household economics, plus whatever external forces (taxation, regulation) force their hand. If you take that purely, you would see very few “national” cars sold outside of their home markets. It’s all a compromise.
Side rant, but maybe instead of creating 18 levels of crossover, some of these companies could scale up the current lineups and make them cheaper and better. I shudder to think at how much money dissolves into thin air with these short-lived marketing exercises.
Give me NCAP or give me death!
If it’s good enough for the world’s biggest markets, it’s good enough for us.
Having a choice would be neat. Unfortunately less global cars for us likely means more (hell probably less) of what we already have. I doubt we’re going to be getting anything other than less options.
My crystal ball says the US goes isolationist. Then realizes that a manorial economy just doesn’t work in this modern, freely traveling world. People will absolutely smuggle foreign goods in and make an alternative economy that isn’t captured by dollar transactions.
In other news, I guess I’ll hold onto my Toyota a bit longer.
“what’s the ultimate global car if it’s not an MQB Golf?”
Same thing in Harlequin.
Harlequin Globetrotters
Sweet Georgia Brown, that’s pretty good!
I know for sure both parties are not ok with tariffs, it will make the stock market crash quickly since not everything can be moved to the US as they want. It will depend what goods are taxed.
Our main product is wire harness, a very manual skill needed to build this, a skill that doesn’t exist in the US. Unfortunately the cost will be passed to the OEMs and the end user. Who wants to shift production if in 4 years rules may change again? The supply chain is all over the place.
Wait wait wait… But I was told other people would pay for the tariffs, not me!
/s (since someone will probably need that)
I’m odd in that I enjoyed the global cars. I owned a Ford Contour for a while and bought a manual Saturn Astra new off the lot. But I also don’t really buy what is popular so my likes are not really what sells.
I can. There will be a cadre of folks who are going to be making a LOT of money with which I don’t know what they will do with it, cause it will be that much. Something I don’t understand. I personally, make more than enough money as an engineer to feed my kids, send them to college, and have some nice things. I don’t understand the desire to have ALL the moneys.
“I don’t understand the desire to have ALL the moneys.”
Because work is far too often a soul draining slog of intense suckitude that directly or indirectly demands most of your precious waking hours each and every day of your adult life. All the moneys is a ticket out of that particular Hell.
One doesn’t need ALL the moneys to escape the hell of work. Give me a fraction of a percent of Elon’s wealth and I’d never work a day again.
After a certain point, there’s no more joy in life with more money. It’s all about having more than the other guy, or even everyone.
I didn’t come up with this, but when you hit a billion, you should get a plaque that reads “I won capitalism”, and anything past that is taxed at 90-100%.
“After a certain point, there’s no more joy in life with more money.”
Depends on what brings you joy.
If for example you want to go to Mars you’re going to need more money. If owning your own internet megaphone to voice your unpopular, unfiltered opinions with no threat of consequence is your thing you will need more money. If buying a political party is your ticket to happiness you are going to need more money.
Good point. I just can’t relate to that. I suppose that’s why I’m not wealthy, the kind of person that gets anywhere that level of wealth is exactly that kind of person.
I hope they get to Mars soon, and stay there.
Musk is not going to go to Mars with HIS money. He’s going to go to Mars with *other people’s money*, and skim some of it off the top for himself.
The first problem is the fact that in the US you actually CAN buy a political party.
Maybe if we all kick in a few bucks we can get him there that much faster.
Sign me up for that GoFundMe.
I’m so tired of both of them.
I don’t think Musk or Trump are capable of happiness.
I dunno, Musk looked pretty happy giving that sloppy salute.
I had a boss that would always quip: How many yachts can you ski behind?
If that is how you feel about your job, you really need to get a different job. <shrug>
And when nobody’s hiring? What then?
We are in an era of record low unemployment. You can get a different job if you hate yours that much. Possibly a change of career. It might require more effort than bitching on the Internet though.
Not according to the BLS
/www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/unemployment-rates-for-persons-25-years-and-older-by-educational-attainment.htm
Unemployment was lower in 2004-2006 and from painful experience I can assure you it was NOT easy to find a job then!
Current duration of unemployment is not great:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/duration-of-unemployment.htm
Nor are the prospects of folks not in the labor force that want a job:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/persons-not-in-the-labor-force-who-want-a-job.htm
The labor force participation rate is also lower than years past:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm
If it’s just too much work to get a new job, then STFU and make the best of the one you have. <shrug>
Or, like I said, make the effort to find something better.
Eh, I’d rather just set the place on fire.
Always an option, LOL.
But I really don’t get people whining about how something in their life is. If it’s bad, change it. Be that a job, a cost of living situation, a bad relationship, whatever. Grow a pair and DO something about it!
Something, something bootstraps.
It is a personality that is dependent on comparing what one has to what someone else has. These people aren’t happy to have more money than could be spent in several lifetimes because someone else might have more. More money, more power, more influence.
My wife and I are also engineers and we will be leaving the workforce this year. We have enough money to live comfortably so why would we continue working?
In theory, I could retire early at any time. But I love what I do, so why would I? I’d be bored out of my mind. But I don’t have spare billions, nor would I particularly want to be THAT rich. Whole different set of dilemmas.
If you are holding onto a job you don’t need your are also preventing someone else from moving up the chain.
And that’s my problem how exactly? And I am in a niche specialty anyway, there isn’t anyone waiting for me to die.
Musk already has nearly all of the money. It strikes me that, at this point, he has moved on to the task of gaining all of the political power in addition to all of the money. He’s the sort of guy (like Trump) who engages in cruelty for cruelty’s sake. He gets off on subjugating people. He’s the villain in a dystopian science fiction novel.
“If I go back five, six years, people in our industry were shipping cars around the world. That’s what everybody did. Then logistics topics came up, and people realized that’s not the best way. So a big trend started: let’s produce locally, let’s also localize suppliers. And of course, now the tariffs are totally enforcing this.”
5-6 years ago was what, 2019-2020? Too bad his amazing foresight didn’t extend to chip production and toilet paper supply.
I would say a global platform, but not a global car. Have all the underpinnings the same, but with different sheet metal. I mean they pretty much do this already.
You mean like a Golf vs a Leon vs an Octavia vs an A3?
An *Atlas* is the same platform as a Golf. As mind boggling as that may be. VW is really good at this stuff.