Rarely does a car company get to reinvent a segment, let alone create a new one from whole cloth. The small unibody truck is not a completely new phenomenon (I mean, who can forget the Škoda Felicia Fun?). An affordable, unibody hybrid truck is a new thin, and Ford has done something kinda magical in creating the Maverick.
It’s tough to be in a leadership position and then suddenly you find yourself having to step aside. To give up what you think could be a victory for yourself. To make that sacrifice. It’s admirable, really, but enough about Lando Norris. The other race, the race for the presidency, has been upended by the swapping of President Joe Biden for VP Kamala Harris. Does she have a Corvette? Does she even like cars?
We’ll find out tomorrow exactly how well or poorly Tesla did in Q2, though the market is already predicting bad news on margins. What we might not find out anytime soon is just how poorly (or well) the car market did at the end of June as the CDK Global outage has made those estimates tough. What we do know is that affordability is still an issue.
Who is ready for a Monday Morning Dump?
The Maverick Is Less Than 100 Units Away From The Wrangler
I like to go back through the quarterly sales reports after a few weeks and see if there’s anything I missed. The original rush of information is when I like to point out the big trends (Honda up, Stellantis down, et cetera).
It’s when you go a little deeper that you start to pick out more information. For instance: the surge of Toyota Tundra sales and the (possibly) brief stumble of the Ram brand. In the case of Tundra/Ram I think at least it can partially be ascribed to the timing of platform releases.
Here’s one that’s even weirder: Jeep sold 77,204 Wranglers in the first half of the year, and over that same period Ford sold 77,113 Mavericks.
These are not necessarily competitive vehicles, as the cheapest Jeep starts at around $32k and the most affordable Maverick is about $24k, with the hybrid closer to $26k. One is an off-road SUV with impeccable creds and the other is a soft-roading economy truck.
Still, I think a Maverick is appealing in a similar way, as a utility vehicle for people who don’t always need the utility. The edge that the Maverick has is it’s way more affordable at every trim level (a base Maverick hybrid is almost half the price of a Wrangler PHEV before incentives/tax credits), is as/more practical than a Wrangler, and yet still has a “cool” factor. The Jeep Wrangler is arguably “cooler” to some, but the gap between it and a Maverick is much smaller than the gap between a Jeep and, say, a Buick Envista.
Is this a fluke? I don’t think so, Jeep Wrangler sales were down 17% in the last quarter and overall down 9% year-over-year. The Maverick is the opposite. Sales for the quarter were up 81% y-o-y and up… 81% for the first half. The biggest obstacle to Maverick sales was production and Ford has mostly fixed that by adding extra shifts at the Hermosillo, Mexico plant.
The Maverick is an obvious hit and we don’t really know where the ceiling on sales is yet because Ford keeps selling every single one they build. If this pattern continues, the Maverick will outsell the Wrangler by the end of the next quarter.
If you were curious, after the Wrangler the next best-selling vehicles in America are:
- Honda Accord: 80,721
- Kia Sportage: 79,853
- Subaru Crosstrek: 79,500
- Toyota Tundra: 78,454
I don’t imagine the Maverick will outsell the Accord, though sales for that model are slipping as the CR-V scoops up customers. Actually, the Maverick could outsell the Accord at this rate.
Does Kamala Harris Even Like Cars?
You don’t have to be a car person to be President of the United States. It’s not a prerequisite or anything. Abraham Lincoln, famously, never even owned a car, which is a real irony when you consider there’s a whole car brand named after him.
How many Presidents were gearheads? Harry Truman liked fancy cars and road trips, so he’s a borderline car nerd. Ronald Reagan rocked a Subaru BRAT so I’m going to say he was one, too [Ed Note: He also used to drive a rare Jeep CJ-6. That’s just cool. -DT]. President Biden is our first self-admitted ‘Car Guy’ President.
If you were away from all communications devices yesterday on a long overnight hike and the first thing you’re doing when coming back is to check The Morning Dump then you might want to sit down: President Biden isn’t running for a second term, and most of the Democratic Party is behind VP Kamala Harris. What this means for the actual election is anyone’s guess.
Former President Trump has attempted to make inroads with autoworkers, though the UAW was officially Team Biden. Given that Trump used his acceptance speech to dog on UAW leadership my guess is that they’ll throw their weight behind Harris.
Does VP Harris have any connection to cars? Not really, though our friend Micheline Maynard has a good roundup of the Veep’s growing connections to Michigan and Labor:
Much of Harris’ role has been to promote actions by the Biden Administration, which has been called the Biden-Harris Administration in official statements.
When the United Auto Workers union won an organizing vote at Volkswagen’s Chattanooga plant in April, Harris tweeted her congratulations. “Unions are critical to our fight to build an economy where every person, not just the wealthy or well-connected, can thrive. When unions win, all workers win,” she tweeted.
Last fall, she talked about the UAW strikes at General Motors, Ford and Stellantis on PBS Newshour.
That video is fairly instructive:
Is she “good” on labor if you’re an autoworker? I think so, though that doesn’t make you a car person.
She is from California and once dated Montel Williams, so there’s a non-zero chance she drove something awesome in the 1990s. Ford Escort GT? Pontiac Sunfire? If anyone knows what Kamala Harris drove please tell me.
It’s been a wild 24 hours and no matter which end of the spectrum you’re on I think we can all agree that it’s great news for Maya Rudolph fans.
Can Tesla Beat Estimates Again?
Tesla’s Q2 sales still trounced just about anyone else hoping to sell an electric car in the United States. The only car company that beat Tesla last quarter was… Tesla of a year prior.
Even better for the company, Tesla managed to move slightly more units than most analysts expected. The question then becomes: How much margin did the company have to sacrifice to get those sales?
Wall Street expects Tesla’s automotive gross margin, excluding regulatory credits, to have slipped to 16.27% in the April-June period, its lowest since the first quarter of 2019, according to 20 analysts polled by Visible Alpha.
Profit margin for vehicle sales, excluding the sales of regulatory credits, was 16.36% in the January-March period and 18.14% in the second quarter of 2023.
Tesla’s discounted financing at a time when interest rates are high “represents an even less visible price cut”, Bernstein analyst Toni Sacconaghi said in a note earlier this month.
Again, we’re grading a bit on a curve here. If it’s 16.27% or lower that’s bad for Tesla. By comparison, GM would be happy to hit 15%.
What’s Going On With Used Vehicles?
New car sales are starting to come back to something like a normal level and prices are moderating a bit, so what does this mean for used cars?
It’s harder to say than usual because of the CDK Global outage, which both disrupted actual sales and sales reporting as Cox Automotive admits in their latest report:
Although we estimate a decline in used retail sales for June compared to May, the disruption makes it challenging to provide an accurate report.
Ok, so that’s tough, but there’s one piece of info I think is much clearer, and that’s vehicle affordability:
Affordability remains challenging for consumers, and supply is more constrained at lower price points. Used cars below $15,000 continue to show low availability, with only 39 days’ supply, 35% less than the industry average. The top five sellers of the month were listed at an average price of $23,833, about 6% below the average listing price for all vehicles sold, and were once again Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, Honda and Nissan, accounting for 49% of all used vehicles sold.
At $23,833 you’re awfully close to a nice new car like a Chevy Trax or a Ford Maverick.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I got invited up to the Berkshires this weekend for a little lake action, some BBQ, and a concert being headlined by The Whiskey Treaty Roadshow. I was vaguely aware of the headliner as my friend is a huge fan and he’d played some of their songs for me. We arrived late and caught their opener, Bella’s Bartok, and I gotta say it was quite a good show. It’s slightly ska-ish but with fewer horns and more life-sized marionette puppets. The woman doing the puppeteering was great, with the most “we spent $80,000 sending you to UMass Amherst for this?” energy imaginable.
The Big Question
Does the Maverick beat the Wrangler? The Accord? What do you think?
The wrangler is honestly holding its own better than I expected. It’s been shoved so far upmarket in price by stellantis that it’s now going head to head with not only the Bronco and 4runner, but Trailhunter Tacomas, Ranger Raptors, and the Colorado ZR2, all of which will hang with it off road, hell, Toyota arguably has a THIRD direct competitor with the new Land Cruiser.
My fear is the JL being the final Wrangler with Solid axles, and the option of a bare-bones stickshift version. I think in the hunt for sales and profit, its going to get moved to the STLA platform, and Ughhhhh the idea of that bums me out so much.
That “move” might not be like the Charger going from the LC to STLA Large kind of move, since the new-style Ram 1500 (DT) was originally just considered a re-vamped DS chassis that got re-classified to STLA Frame like 2 years ago. Nothing changed, besides the slight revision the Wagoneer’s got to build them.
I can’t imagine they’d try to build a Wrangler off that big of a frame.
“If you build it they will come.”
If we theoretically but every president in a spec Miata. 46 laps of Road America, everyone is the age and experience in a car at first day in office. Who wins? I would bet Obama or GWB.
I would throw Kennedy into contention,young and fairly fit, good reflexes etc… but Kennedy’s also don’t tend to have the best of luck when it comes to vehicle based events…
Bush Sr. flew torpedo bombers, Bush Jr. flew fighter planes, Carter drove submarines, and Kennedy drove a PT boat. For sheer competence, I’d wager it’d be a toss-up between Kennedy and Bush Jr.
Despite the hype, I don’t think I’d credit Obama with being much of a car guy. He grew up in Hawaii and Chicago; while those places do have car culture, it’s not something I saw any evidence of.
I am disappointed the editorial staff isn’t taking us on a journey of “Presidents, Candidates, and Conveyances,” because a discussion of Dukakis and the tank, Kennedy’s PT Boat, Bush Sr.’s Avenger, would be kinda fascinating.
Obama pre-presidential time was known to be a pretty erratic pedal to the metal guy in his Chrysler 300. Which kinda sounds like every commuter in Chicago, but it did freak out his aides.
i don’t know that JFK could handle 46 laps. remember, he was a wounded WW2 veteran who suffered from crippling back pain for most of his adult life. then again, his heroics in saving the remaining crew of PT109 show he could perform despite that, so maybe he would have a chance
No way his back holds out that long.
A Kennedy would probably do fine
—as long as there aren’t any water hazards
Or convertibles.
My money is on some rando who’s lifetime never included a horseless carriage that will have an untapped deep-down racing talent and spoil the show, like Franklin Pierce or James K. Polk.
I’d put a sawbuck on ol’ Teddy Rosevelt. A city boy, he became very proficient in the saddle during a couple years on a ranch after his wife & mother died on the same day
Teddy would be driving with “strenuous effort” for sure and that would probably serve him well.
Plus, can you imagine how intimidating a moose rack on the front of his car would be?
I hope Maverick outsells a bunch and other car makes get on board with smaller truck-like devices again.
I feel like the Bronco was already taking sales from the Wrangler to slow it down so that may be some of the story there.
The issue with building Mavericks is the shared platform, the more Mavericks they make, possibly less Escape/Bronco Sports which are also ok sellers, but again, it shows the market is there for a Trax truck, a Trux.
Escape is a separate assembly plant (Louisville, KY) shared with the Lincoln Corsair.
Yeah but there’s similar parts, engines/transmissions, and forgot about the Corsair so even more so.
Mark My Words: Tesla will flounder from this point forward. Elons commitment to $45M a month to a serial felon/rapist/insurrectionist/terrorist will bite him in the ass. Nobody I know with more than a few brain cells to rub together will get a new Tesla; I know so many people who USED to want one really bad, but now will buy anything else.
By in large, most people don’t really care about the politics of the companies they patronize. Even if they claim to, they aren’t prioritizing that over other things. But Elon is really make it hard for consumers to not care as much. As other automakers put out more competitive BEV and Hybrid products, Tesla has to rely more and more on image….which is something he’s eroding with this nonsense.
Most manufacturers as an entity have interests far separated from my own. That’s fine, it would be weirder if we did have common concerns.
But the CEO of Ford isn’t posting 12 year old memes and calling people ped0s. If he / she did that, and bought a social media platform to post on and also tweaked the algorithms to boost their own ancient meme posting, they may then factor into my purchase decision.
Eh, maybe not so much politics as much as Douche bag visuals. I can never openly support any apple products simply because of the douche that Jobs was. and he has been dead for a while now.
It’s not like Gates was a shining example of morality and virtue. Plus, he adapted/stole an OS so complex that what should have been a simple update brought the world to a halt probably because someone got a bit in the wrong register.
Crowdstrike is a security company. It was their update, which was in use by businesses, not individuals. Microsoft is not the source issue (this time).
Oh, I understand that Crowdstrike were the ones who were the direct cause of the kurfufle, but the unnecessary complexity of windows led to the bodge.
fair enough. I’d be using Linux myself if all my games reliably ran on it.
I mostly use Apple stuff, but I do have a windows machine that I use for auto related software. Transferring it from one machine to a newer one is impossible (for me to figure out).
Windows (esp 10+) will move from hardware to dissimilar hardware quite easily. Go grab a free (slightly older) copy of Macrium Reflect and then just clone one drive to the other.
Or just pull the drive out and put it in the new machine if you can. (Obviously have backups and someone competent with IT to help).
It will boot up and if you get internet working (assuming it doesn’t already), Windows will likely find all the new drivers on its own.
Bro you gotta stay young
https://www.bloomberg.com/professional/insights/data/smartphone-study-shows-apple-clear-favorite-of-gen-z/
As Morla would say, No, we are allergic to youth.
Given Elon’s track record of paying for things, I’d expect those $45M checks to start flowing right after Tesla achieves full autonomy.
perhaps, or does Elon see the current tesla market base as saturated and he is perhaps buying sales by supporting the half of the population that would never in a million years have considered tesla before this apparent shift in political focus.
This is 100% my thought.
On average it would seem any green / tree huggers are most likely to be democratically aligned. If your company happens to make the best (almost affordable in comparison to other options in the market), EVs that also happen to have by far The best charging network then no need to cozy up to this group…
While Elon may genuinely be a Maga/ conspiracy guy… it Does happen to make business sense to align himself w/the Maga party, with a thinking of…
“cus if he ‘cray… and I’m ‘cray… and we both hate the same things, well maybe I should check out his cars…”
I mean, Bill Clinton is a big Hummer guy.
excellent work
Nice!
take your stained blue star.
Weird I almost never see a Maverick here but almost trip over Wranglers/Gladiators.
Please don’t bring too much personal politics to this site, I beg you. So far I think the site and commenters have threaded the needle well. Your overall objective reporting of industry happenings has been good with little personal/political bias.
I no longer visit The Other Site because of too many instances where they use a vaguely automotive related topic to shoehorn in a political rant. Yes, there are times it’s appropriate to bring up political topics (and this Morning Dump is a good example of that), but this place has done well about not taking it too far and I’d prefer it remain so.
Agree 100%. It’s easy to tell which way writers on this site lean, but it’s never in your face.
I try not to let my pro-Cornell West bias slip in too much, but I guess you can read between the lines.
1000% – I don’t want to see that happen here. I align overall with our writing staff, else I may have left. The Old Lighting Site has become a toxic political hotbed and I don’t want that toxicity here. Keep it on the cars.
Thank you!
“ The small unibody truck is not a completely new phenomenon (I mean, who can forget the”
Volkswagen Rabbit/Golf/Caddy pickup?
The Ford Styleside F-100s and F-250s with two-wheel-drive that were made between 1961-1963?
The Ranchero?
Dodge Rampage?
Corvair ramp side?
Honda Ridgeline is also unibody, IIRC.
Ridgeline is a mid-size in line with the Tacoma/Ranger/Colorado etc. If only Honda had made it smaller…
This isn’t a segment of the industry I pay much attention too, so the Ridgeline being a different size is news to me. Guess I’ve never seen them side by side, all I know is “smaller than the average bro-dozer”
My point was that unibody pickups go back 60 years.
Plus the VW, because VW
Main difference between all of those and the Maverick is it’s a four door. To be fair it’s not the first to do that either, given the Subaru Baja and Holden Crewman. However, it is the first to do the four door ute successfully and that’s a salient point.
VW made a “double cab” 4 door bus with a bed in the back even had the highly useful drop bedsides/gates? On all 3 sides (Not entirely sure what to call them)
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-european/curbside-classic-1962-vw-double-cab-pickup-the-granddaddy-double-cab-pickup-still-hauling-the-veggies/
Though it could be considered body on frame, the functionality is there for 4-5 seating and good light duty truck stuff capacity out back.
This is exactly what I’d want in a modern light duty utility vehicle.fimgers crossed the “Telo truck” makes it to production. That’s one new vehicle I can see myself buying
Those VW double cabs are neat and I’m lucky to have seen one in person. What’s interesting is while they weren’t the first to offer a factory crew cab (International beat them by one year with the Travelette), they were the only ones to offer it for a forward control van-based pickup, a segment they pioneered and is largely forgotten about. The big 3 (and Jeep) all offered one: Ranked: Forward-control trucks of the 1960s – Hagerty Media, and if you think the VW’s fold down sides are cool, check out the Corvair Rampside with an actual side ramp.
EDIT: Did some more digging, Jeep made a crew cab version of their forward control pickup but only for the military it seems as the “M677 Truck, Cargo Pickup w/4 Dr. Cab”.
I love Internationals, my father grew up on a WI dairy farm and I and IH were their tractors of choice. International trucka were like their tractors, dead simple and very argicurtural amd they always started.
In the 1960s the 1st car he ever bought new was a 66? Corvair Monza. Later (about 1988), he bought a neighbors 69 monza and had it restored locally for one of my sisters as her HS car.
So I’m familiar with and love Corvairs of all kinds too, the ramp side certainly IS something special!
Corvairs and Internationals – your father had exquisite taste. I’m envious.
The 61-63 Ford “unibody” trucks aren’t unibodies, they are Body on Frame with an integrated cab and bed.
Rancheros were only unibody in some years the early and late ones were body on frame, even if the cab and bed were integrated.
Yes I forgot about how the 61-63 Ford “unibody” trucks were called unibodies by Ford when actually there was a frame underneath, and it was only unibody in the sense that there were no gaps between the taillights and the A pillars.
I was thinking of the Falcon based Rancheros. The point was that there were a lot of unibody trucks dating back to the 60s, not that all the nameplates were unibody construction in all years across all models. Admittedly Ford falsely claiming unibody construction and me forgetting sullied the selection.
Send me a self addressed stamped envelope and I’ll refund double your money!
Curious to see if Ford announces an AWD hybrid Maverick for 2025, might have to buy one
I read somewhere that they are going to offer AWD on the hybrid for 2025 but I’m not holding my breath.
That’s exactly what I’m holding out for. Configurator goes live Aug 1, and I’ll be placing an order then, if that’s an option.
Used car prices in my area are still insane. Cars that would have been $1500 pre-pandemic shot up to $7000 during the pandemic, and are now trading for $5500. I’m not even talking about quirky or interesting cars, but crap cars too – especially if it has AWD or 4wd. I keep hoping prices balance out, because affordability has taken a massive hit in Colorado the last several years and I’m not sure how much more of it I can handle.
I’m trying to help my son find his first car now, and the prices are still ridiculous. $8000 for for a 12 year old econobox with 120k miles, and rattlecan touchups covering up rust that fully penetrated the rockers.
Donald Trump did have that short lived deal with Cadillac and Dillinger-Gaines to build custom Trump Series Cadillac Fleetwood limousines, but abruptly pulled out after the prototypes were finished.
He’s owned a few other interesting cars over the years (1956 Rolls-Royce, SLR McLaren, Diablo, Ferrari F430, even a Tesla Roadster at one point), but barely drove any of them, and they seemed to have chosen more for use as marketing tools to project a stereotypical rich guy image to sell condos as opposed to vehicles he genuinely enjoyed owning and driving. Living primarily in Manhattan pre-2021 probably also wasn’t conducive to doing a lot of driving either.
Well, he pulled out after the prototypes were delivered… without any payment.
There’s a long history of ordering expensive things covered with his name / logo and then not paying for them. You know the manufacturer can’t really sell the stuff to anyone else – makes it easy to back out of original agreements and then low-ball a desperate small business into accepting any offer and signing an NDA to get it.
I remember a video taken by his youngest son of him driving some sort of luxury car, maybe a maybach? He seems like a guy that would only drive cars that project an image of wealth and power no matter how good or crap they actually were.
I would suggest that there was no ownership involved but for the Rolls. The rest would have been leased, loaned or leveraged through some other deal.
“abruptly pulled out” – was that an E. Jean Carrol reference?
I’m going off memory but believe those numbers would put the maverick above most midsize trucks with the exception of the Tacoma. That’s more interesting to me than if it’s out selling a Wrangler or Accord
Tacoma sales are way off pace this year due the rollout of the new model (delays and such). They’ve moved 69,437 through June, vs. 117k in the first half of 2023. So that actually does put the Maverick ahead.
I met Ms Harris numerous times when I was living in SF in the 90’s.
Along with many other City and State dignitaries such as Gavin Newsom, Willie Brown, Carole Migden, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Ammiano, etc – she would regularly attend our non-profit’s annual events offering her support.
She’s exactly the same in person as she appears to be on TV – Warm, empathetic and highly intelligent. She’ll make a great President.
Because San Francisco is an actual city – I would not be surprised if she didn’t own a car at all. We never paid much mind to what our city and state dignitaries showed up in – Some came in government cars with their drivers or Carey Car Towncars, others took taxis, Muni or just walked. While a few wealthy San Franciscans could be counted on for owning interesting cars – just owning a garage space is an incredible privilege in SF – most of us were not among them.
As far as Maverick – it surprises me that they don’t outsell Wrangler as it’s a more useful vehicle. I’m sure it’s simply down to Ford keeping them artificially scarce.
Willy Brown drove a pretty slick 911, Jerry Brown a pair of matching blue beater Plymouths.
Jerry Brown drove those Plymouths when he was Governor in the 70s – as a counterpoint to the free-spending Reagans.
Willie Brown drove a 911 when he was a State Representative in the 70’s and had another one in the 80s. If he had a Porsche when he was mayor in the 90’s, I would likely have seen it as I lived in the apartment building next door to the condo tower where he owned an apartment. He was well known around town for his impeccable suits and showing up at big events whether he was invited or not, but I don’t recall any mentions of his cars in the press in the 90s
Every Jeep dealership in my area has $60,000 wranglers coming out of its ears. I’m guessing Ford did a better job building what people actually want to buy, instead of what they want to sell.
Go Maverick! Now if Ford can just work on eliminating those pesky recalls.
Eighty thousand for a UMass Amherst education?! I graduated there in 1980 and a semester’s in-state tuition was $150. Room and board was another $500 per semester. Summer work mostly covered all of this. I had a small student loan that was paid off in my second month on the job after graduation. My how times have changed.
There are several colleges / universities in MA that are at or above $90k / year right now.
Sure, but the flagship campus of the state school? That’s nuts.
UMASS tuition is $17k for MA residents so maybe the $80k is for 4 years? Of course you can double this if you add room and board. And more than double the tuition if you’re out of state.
Maverick prices are still above MSRP around me. Plus, everyone has at least $3K in dealer options added on. Screw them! I want a base Blue Maverick with steelies and no options dang it!
Around here, they’re at MSRP…unless they’re used. Most of those were purchased at inflated prices before supply caught up and lots somehow think they’ll get a buyer for a used Maverick for more than a new one.
Well, a used one already has all of the recalls done for you already.
Don’t worry, they’ll find more to recall, so you’ll still get to join in the fun.
I went to Varsity Ford in Ann Arbor, MI and ordered an XLT with a trailer hitch and no other options. Got $1250 off through past Ford ownership and where my wife works. The wait was 10 months, the dealer was great and no issues or recalls to this point.
Ford screwed up and actually made a vehicle people want and need. Since it has modest profit margins they tried to ignore it but the demand was like a shovel to the forehead. Finally, they decided to embrace it by raising the price and building more of them.
Don’t forget decontenting! It’s an important step. Removing things like the securicode keypad saved them a very small amount per vehicle and allowed them to pass the savings on to you in the form of higher prices!
Since there is a vacancy in the presidential race…
If elected president, I will make sure there is a Maverick in every garage! I will request that Ford add PHEV and BEV powertrains to the Maverick. I also pledge to start a YouTube channel called ‘POTUS Garage’ where we wrench on and hoon shit boxes. All while Secret Service suits look unamused in the background. How long can Agent Smith stand in a cloud of VTEC powered tire smoke before he stops looking so serious?
It seems that the secret service can stand around and ignore just about anything.
That’s a pretty powerful campaign platform there.
The Maverick is cheaper than the Wrangler, both for the ICE models and the Hybrid models. Not only that but the Hybrid Maverick is much better than the Wrangler Hybrid on account of it’s e-CVT
Jeep should make a 2 door 6ft bed Gladiator using the body of the 2 door Wrangler. The roof, the doors, the seats, etc. would just be carried over from the 2 door Wrangler.
With Jeep’s new leadership I doubt they will, but they should. Seating for 4 with a 6ft bed with a manual transmission would sell like hotcakes to all the people who grew up with Mini Trucks, just like the Maverick did, but unlike the Maverick a short cab long bed Gladiator would be more of a Mini-Truck than the Maverick.
Wrangler Hybrid get’s a few points for being a plug-in.
Plus, why is Ford’s eCVT better than Jeeps electric motor integration? Ignoring Jeep’s notorious reliability issues of course…
A slight advantage of the Jeep over the Maverick, however the obscenely low range (new in optimal conditions mind you).
Ford’s eCVT is a Toyota eCVT copy (licensed I believe). Said eCVTs are simple, durable, reliable, lightweight, etc. Generally speaking when I see hybrids with e-CVTs they use Atkinson cycle naturally aspirated indirect injection engines, which are usually fairly under-stressed as far as modern engines are concerned, and they also have much higher MPG than their automatic transmission having hybrid counterparts.
When it comes to automatic transmission having hybrid automobiles they almost always use low displacement Turbocharged Direct Injection engines, said engines are generally over-stressed, not particularly long lived, and not particularly well suited for hybrids (due to their less linear power delivery and piss poor fuel efficiency outside of testing).
I think Toyota got it right with their hybrid system, though they’re making the same mistake with their recent larger hybrid offerings.
Own a 2014 Toyota hybrid with 240k miles. This is the answer for everyday use.
Is it a Prius or derivative?
(I have a 2012 v and I love it but the high-mileage repair horror stories occupy a good portion of my brain)
Camry, 2.4L Atkinson cycle with the Toyota eCVT. I still average 38-41 mpg depending.
That’s awesome. I guess that engine might’ve missed the head gasket issues then.
Definitely on my short list of replacements if mine gets totaled; I really want to stay with an eCVT
*port injection not “indirect injection”
Too late to edit now -_-
I was thinking about CVT implementation this weekend when I was driving a rental Rogue with a 3 cyl engine turbocharged and a CVT. 34mpg on the highway with cruise control set at 80mph on average, amazing to me.
eCVT and hybrids go along pretty well, and I think only the Pacifica PHEV has a big engine with this configuration, I cannot think of another V6 hybrid with a eCVT or regular CVT (Some Nissan had the V6 but those are gone).
Jeep should make a longitudinal version of the Pacifica PHEV drivetrain and put it in the Wrangler. It would allow them to get rid of the turbo 2.4 and in doing so it would likely be more fuel efficient, durable, reliable, simple, and simplify the supply chain a good bit.
When the typical American drives 37 miles a day, being able to do half of that on full EV isn’t really “obscenely low”. Heck, for that typical 37 miles (and assuming no charging at work) that comes out to:
Ford: 1.06 gallons of gas
Jeep: 15 kWh and 0.80 gallons of gas
It’s like dead even. If you can charge at work (rare, I know) it’s even better for the Jeep.
Jeep’s design isn’t bad; the downfall is that it’s Stellantis reliability. But the fundamentals of the design are pretty damn good.
In the e-cvt hybrids the electric motor is sandwiched between the ice engine and can be said to be part (or between) the transmission depending on how you want to look at it.
If I remember correctly it was an expensive joint R&D collaboration between Toyota Mercedes and at least 1 other automaker Porsche?
Nothing with a manual and/or two doors sells like hotcakes in 2024.
I wish it were otherwise, but alas.
With how popular Jeeps are, their aftermarket support, and the lack of any real competition now, I think they’d sell better than you think.
Comparing 2 door vs 4 door Wrangler sales, regular cab vs crew cab pickup sales in general, and manual transmission take rates across the industry, I’m pretty confident in my statement.
They’d sell a few to diehards, but in general there isn’t much case.
It would also help for it to be a manual of decent quality, which doesn’t seem to be the case.
I saw a 2-door Wrangler the other day. I didn’t even realize they still made them since I never see them.
Gotta be about the same with Broncos. I must see ten 4-doors for every 2-door and I pay attention because I like the 2-doors, but think the 4-doors have an unappealing prom night stretched limo effect going on.
I agree. A 2 door Raptor or 392 might be in my driveway right now. But I just can’t get over the looks of the 4 doors.
Did you just describe a Scrambler?
No one is interested in making a vehicle that trades on nostalgia unless it does so to the tune of about $60,000.
Methinks you overestimate the couple distance difference between a 2 and 4Dr Wrangler. The 2Drs are shorter because they shove the people over the rear wheels instead of in front of them, hence the lack of cargo space and 2-pass seats. Taking that and slapping a 6′ bed on the back would look even worse than the gladiator. Unfortunately if you want a rear seat that fits people it’s hard to get smaller than the Gladiator body now unless you go to jump seats, which 90% of buyers don’t want (if you look at sales data of a Colorado/Canyon/Ranger/Taco from a few years ago).
I’m all for a reasonably priced 2 door Gladiator, but also am realistic in thinking it’ll never happen. Closest we got was the JK truck kits, which you can’t even really do now that the 4D JL has a stamped roll bar. I don’t see them making all the tooling for what would probably be 10,000 units a year in sales.
I think the cab length of a two door Wrangler is close to, if not longer than, the gladiator cab.
It only needs to be 6 inches shorter, to allow for a 6ft long bed.
This is the kind of quality content you just can’t get on other car sites.
I think the Bronco stealing Wrangler sales will push Maverick sales beyond Wrangler sales.
This was my first thought. It’s comparing the leader in a competitive segment to a monopolized one. The real headline is that mini trucks sell, and OEMs should make more of them.
Hot take: I also think the new Santa Fe might steal some sales too. It’s not an off-roader by any stretch of the imagination, but it absolutely looks like one and that’s probably more than enough for like 90% of Wrangler buyers.
And I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many of any Hyundai show up on roads in the first year of a redesign. It’s clearly taking sales from some other vehicles.
It looks funky, has an interior that punches way above its weight class, has plenty of space, and is available as a hybrid. As I’ve said a few times, I have an eye on one for my wife’s next car…but she’ll take convincing since she’s all in on a Highlander
I think being President would suck for any gearhead, they don’t let you drive anything except in very very controlled environments, I doubt the White House has a good garage on site even just to work on a vehicle of yours, which if you’re doing your job you shouldn’t have time for anyways.
US Presidents are legally prohibited from driving on public roads, even after they are out of office. Total bummer.
Seriously? Oof
The Supreme Court has ruled that laws don’t apply to presidents any more.
Take your star.
Secret Service protection (chaperonage?) for life. I would champ at the bit before out of office.
Interestingly, they no longer get protection for life. GWB signed it into law before he left office since there was a lot of talk with him and Clinton being so young it would cost the country way too much.
Now, if there is a threat to them, they can apply for extended, temporary secret service protection. Apparently the FBI signaled a credible threat from Iran they were going after Trump and he had to apply for that protection. Not that they seemed to help him out much recently.
But if I were a former president, I can’t imagine they would stop you from driving if you don’t have constant protection. Who would enforce that? I’d have a track on my property and hoon every day. Who would stop me?
Presidential Track Day Car!
That’s why I chose not to run.
I think you have to give a nod to Trump here. He had at least one Diablo, which if nothing else implies he has good taste in Italian automobiles and knows how to drive a manual.
I am purposely mentioning nothing else about the man, so do not take this comment as anything other than an endorsement of buying and driving Lamborghini Diablos.
Do you think Trump knows what Diablo means in Italian?
Ricky Bobby: From now on, you’re the Magic Man and I’m El Diablo.
Cal Naughton, Jr.: What does Diablo mean?
Ricky Bobby: It’s like… Spanish for like a fighting chicken.
Do you think he ever played Diablo on Windows 95?
Yes, but the coke obscures the memory.
Not only did he own that thing, it was also a unique shade of blue that I think only he had, and was awesome. Absolutely scrambled my brain that the guy who to that point was only known for tacky real estate/golf courses… had that level of taste?
I thought he pretty famously didn’t have a drivers’ license…
I’m not sure a Diablo is an indicator of good taste in Italian automobiles. Lamborghini is like a flashier Ferrari. It’s the sort of thing an attention seeking rich guy might buy to one-up someone at a golf club.
Good taste would have been a Miura, Stratos, 037 or a 1750 GTV. An Alfa SZ would be bad taste, but definite proof of being a car guy.
I think people forget how much changed about Lamborghini with the Audi/VW sale and how much has changed about supercars in general the last 20 years.
The Diablo, and the Countach before it, was a chore to drive, had a heavy clutch, was miserable to see out of, was difficult to park or drive at slow speeds, and so on. If you wanted something that looked good in the country club without sacrifice, there were better choices. Driving a Diablo was not for poseurs like Lambos can be now.
I’ve seen a few – they are surprisingly tiny IRL. The interiors are sumptuous at a glance, then look like assembled by a middle school art class on closer inspection. I was born in the ’70s, I still want one.
My opinions of Lamborghini were formed in the 80’s. Ferraris back then were a pain in the arse to drive too.
Can’t stand the man but this is a fact.
I forgot he owned one. Diablo is pretty cool. Do we have evidence of him driving it? Are we about to spawn DIablo Truthers?
There is that semi-famous picture of him in the pink golf shirt with it at the gas station. I can’t vouch for its truthfulness, but it’s not as if he can easily be mistaken for anyone else.
https://www.facebook.com/players.show/posts/donald-trump-rocking-the-lamborghini-diablo-vtmakeamericagreatagain/3221975331152340/ Man, that’s a great color, too.
Yikes. That pink shirt, tucked in with that belt… That’s a look. Definitely someone with taste…
He actually just drove the Diablo in Kenya. If he really owned one, they would release the long-form title.
You don’t have to be a car person to be President of the United States. It’s not a prerequisite or anything
You do however have to claim with a straight face to be a churchgoing Christian and love sportsball even if you can’t stand either of those things.
You would think that image includes a pickup or BOF SUV just to haul your two kids and golden retriever around in. But hey, don’t tell them that if they haven’t already figured it out.
And own a dog.
Wrangler sales behind the Maverick doesn’t surprise me, the Wrangler is such a niche toy vehicle that I’m amazed by how strong they have ever sold. Is it because the convertible demand is still there and the Wrangler is one of very few left on the market and and one of two 4-Door convertibles on the market?
I feel like the majority of Wranglers I see have hardtops, which of course can be removed but then I wonder how often owners are doing so.
I think you have to leave the tops on most of the time, else risk your rubber ducky collection being lost to the wind.
The Wrangler sells an image more than a vehicle. They also sell one of the most easily customizable vehicles on the road. That combination is why it sells so well.
We can sit here and talk about who uses/wants the capabilities of a Jeep, but that’s hardly the point for a lot of the buyers. The Wrangler image and lifestyle, combined with the level of individuality you get from choosing the accessories you want to bolt on and what you want to pull off…that’s worth something to people, whether they’re going to use it as a dedicated off-roader, keep it forever on pavement, or something in between.
Gotta put the angry eyes on it of course, so everyone knows how tough and off-roadey you are!
Me: *buys a Prius, hoping in the back of my mind that being a hybrid and not being widely thought of as an enthusiast vehicle will limit aftermarket modification options*
Me: *discovers PriusOffroad*
Me: oh no