It’s safe to say that we’re absolutely stoked for the next Honda Prelude. Not only does the concept look fabulous, its three-door liftback form is just pragmatic enough for everyday use, and it should mark the return of the front-wheel-drive sport compact coupe. Anything that could bring a segment back from extinction is pretty neat, right?
We still don’t know what hybrid powertrain will be under the hood, but if a Japanese report proves true, the next Prelude could take a page from Hondas of the past. Japanese publication Best Car claims the incoming Prelude may be available as a hybrid with a six-speed manual transmission. Should that happen, it would be the first manual hybrid Honda since the CR-Z, although such a system might not work quite as we expect most hybrid drivetrains to today.
Throwing things back to the CR-Z, its system used an electric motor sandwiched between the crankshaft and the flywheel to take some propulsion duties away from the engine, but only ever some. The CR-Z, like the original Insight, couldn’t solely power itself on electric power alone and instead used its electric motor as a helping hand. It’s right there in Honda’s name for the tech, Integrated Motor Assist.
It’s the sort of hybrid system the automotive aftermarket has taken a shining to, such as Vonnen’s Shadow Drive for Porsche 911s. This kit replaces the flywheel with an assembly that includes a 150 horsepower electric motor, adds a fairly small battery pack weighing 170 pounds, and cools everything using liquid-based systems.
Indeed, pairing hybrid assistance with a manual transmission is now more of a power thing than a massive fuel economy booster, unless you downsize the engine to match or pull a little mechanical trickery. Well, BestCar claims a system like this would be paired with a two-liter four-cylinder with direct injection. Hey, that sounds a whole lot like the engine in the Accord Hybrid, which generates 143 horsepower and 129 lb.-ft. of torque on its own and uses the Atkinson cycle for improved efficiency.
In modern applications, the Atkinson cycle just means leaving the intake valves open for a little bit after the engine finishes its intake stroke. This pushes a little bit of air back into the intake manifold at the start of the compression stroke, which lowers the effective compression ratio but leaves the expansion ratio of the engine unchanged. The result? Less power density but greater efficiency. When combined with electric assistance, it has the potential to get remarkably solid mileage, though one should not expect Prius-like economy from a setup where the engine has to run all the time.
Of course, rumors of the upcoming Prelude pairing a manual transmission with hybrid assistance aren’t official, and since Honda phased out the Integrated Motor Assist setup in 2016, a whole lot of research and development would be required to build a new version. For now, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
(Photo credits: Honda, Thomas Hundal)
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If this happens I’m getting one after dealing with the dealer markups lol but why does it look so much like the new Camry?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/ibimg/hgm/1626×915-1/100/926/2025-toyota-camry_100926322.jpg
I really want this to be good and sell in numbers greater than the BRZ86 twins.
Unless the electric motor is sufficiently beefy, many will be left wondering why Honda didn’t turbo the engine. 143 hp and 129 lb-ft won’t sell well here stateside – especially for an engine with a 2 litre displacement.
I am guessing that it’s a 2 L engine, but it’s something along the lines of an atkinson cycle engines where the effective displacement is much smaller on the intake and compression strokes,
e but much larger on the power and exhaust strokes, tuned for peak power and economy, but probably gutless in terms of torque which the electric motor would make up for. so it’s not really a 2 L engine in the way people normally think of engine displacement.
Essentially, they’re making a peaky highly tuned for efficiency engine act like a big lazy, torque monster engin.
Anyway, nobody cares about the engine displacement unless they’re racing.
Have we forgotten about the second generation NSX with a hybrid drivetrain? It’s not hard to imagine that Honda would not use lessons learned to develop a new performance oriented hybrid system. Or they may be borrowing tech from current prototype racing efforts in IMSA (BEV to certain speed) or energy deployment like WEC prototypes. Honda employs smart folks that push the envelope of performance, either in motorcycles or cars. A “budget” sports car would not need a lot of power to boost acceleration, or to meet BEV only requirements where applicable.
See: CRZ, where it was not really very efficient, and got about the same MPG as the civic hybrid. People have a right to be worried; today’s Honda makes all sorts of boneheaded decisions.
That was the IMA system, which sucked. It was a gutless weed whacker of an engine aided by an electric razor motor with a space-stealing battery that had the power and lifespan of a Ni-Cad pack from an ’80s RC car. I don’t think they’d bring that back . . . would they?
The fact they did it at all, instead of just throwing a k24 in there, should be what is concerning.
I said the same thing even back then. Real world mileage wouldn’t have probably been much worse, it could have had more usable space without the battery, and it would have been lighter, faster, and more reliable. It could have been a pretty cool car that I bet would be coveted today. My sister had a Civic Hybrid and my mother had the same year regular Civic and she got close to the same mileage, but with a bigger trunk, cheaper purchase price, nicer wheels, better performance, and real tires.
Got a ’11 CR-Z, IMA’s NiMH in it, gives great low end torque without having to worry about turbo issues, engine’s dead simple. it’s not a sports car but saying it’s unreliable is plain false
The standard 8th gen Civic didn’t have a turbo (neither did the 9th gen your car was based on) and an N/A engine is simpler than a hybrid. Seeing as they had to replace two battery packs in under 160k miles and the transmission seemed to be on its way out when it got totaled to their relief, I’d call that expensive and unreliable. It was also gutless even when the battery participated and dangerously slow when it was dead, yet had no traction thanks to early eco tires (would comically chirp the tires to proceed at mart cart pace when the battery was operational and braking distances and handling were practically in old bias ply territory), had half the size trunk of the regular Civic thanks to the battery, cost more to buy, and was slower than the standard Civic that also had a more robust real automatic transmission and delivered minimally worse real world mileage while driving on real tires. Not sure where I addressed your specific car.
But apparently not manual door handles…
Oh, god. Now that you’ve pointed that out to me, this is no longer on my list of possibilities.
Let’s hope the production variant gets manual door handles
But, but, think of the aerodynamic benefits as you sit in stop and go traffic! /s
From Honda enthusiasts, it’s more like “The New Honda Prelude MUST Come With A Manual Transmission option”.
In my view, they should make the Prelude in two versions… a hybrid version called the HF and a manual version called the Si.
Give the HF version the same hybrid powertrain used in the Accord Hybrid and for the Si, some variant of the K20C engine.
OR… maybe give it the K24W7… 206HP, naturally aspirated, 7000rpm redline and a 6 speed manual.
Regardless of how much the front end looks like a Prius (which honestly isn’t a bad thing), for me it’s the rear that bothers me more, although I can’t quite put my finger on why.
I haven’t owned a Honda product in a long time, but their manuals are excellent, and I hope they see fit to put one in this car.
As someone who has been strongly thinking about getting a CR-Z and has been daydreaming of a GR86 Hybrid and/or Prius Prime GR, this would be literally perfect. Hopefully, it can deliver at least 35 MPG in the city, if not better, while delivering dynamics akin to the Civic Si.
The CR-Z had a surprisingly decent production run from 2010-2016. If the over-under on the manual Prelude is 6.5 years, I sadly think I’d have to take the under.
Everytime I look at CR-Z’s I always end up looking at how to K swap it. That thing should have had a K20 in a performance model. Such a shame.
Like everyone else I am excited for this but lets wait for pricing. This needs to be in the mid 30k range rather than 40k+ for me to be excited.
I’d be very surprised if this starts over $40k. My guess is they’ll start between $35-37k and have a Touring trim or something that’s like $42k.
This gets me seriously excited. I recently lamented to my friend how difficult it will be to replace my stick econobox with another stick econobox when the time comes, as the only (cheap) vehicle that offers a stick in base trim is the Versa (I don’t want a Versa). Therefore, my next runabout would likely be a Corolla hybrid or similar. But this with a stick? That would be fantastic. As noted in the article, the hybrid wouldn’t be so much for MPG as for additional power, but additional MPG isn’t needed on a vehicle like this. Non-hybrid compact sedans (and sloped hatches) have gotten 40 MPG for several years now, so even a little MPG boost would be more than enough while adding a little zip off the line. I’m quite hopeful about this car, and I look forward to seeing if it comes to fruition in this form.
The more I hear about this, the more I’m interested. This isn’t going to be a high performance monster, but as a well-made good looking daily? It’s going to be hard to say no.
exactly my feelings as well, I am quite excited about the prospect of an affordable, well equipped, good looking, reliable daily. Plus a stick? Count me in.
If the rumors turn out to be true, I may finally have a suitable replacement for my Mazda2 Yaris.
My uncle had a Scion IA; it was a cool little stick economy car that got unreasonably good MPG and had Mazda’s center console infotainment controls. Except for the whale-shark front end, it seemed like a great car.
I’m not sure why you say that reviving the IMA would require a whole lot of R&D to build a new version. I’m sure Honda has all the details on the previous IMA systems in their archives that they could dust off to start the process. Sure they would probably want a more powerful motor, but in general the IMA is the simplest way to do a hybrid with very low R&D compared to something like the Ford/Toyota Power-Split design. That of course is why they went with IMA originally to be able to get something to market quicker.
Personally I doubt they will go with an IMA style system, it just gives up too much efficiency and relies on the driver to keep the motor spinning for regen to occur. If they do a new single motor, manual transmission hybrid system they will put the motor after the clutch, actually integrated into the transmission. That was the funny thing about the choice of IMA for a name since it wasn’t really integrated at all, it just sandwiched in-between the engine and transmission, again because that was the cheap and quick way to make it happen. The plus of the IMA was that if, no when, the battery failed all you had to do was remove the service plug on the battery and continue to drive it as a normal car, albeit with slightly reduced fuel economy.
And no power. My sister had a Civic Hybrid that went through two batteries. First one was covered, the second was not, so they just ran it like that and my early ’80s Subarus would have blown the doors off the thing. Mileage wasn’t much worse because it wasn’t great to begin with.
The new Civic hybrid has nothing to do with the old IMA system. Has anybody even asked if a manual can be bolted to that yet?
With what I know about the current system, I don’t really see how it would work with a manual and, as much as I love them, seems especially regressive where there doesn’t seem to be a transmission as such to begin with, but I’m not entirely clear on that as my interest in this kind of stuff wanes.
The current system IS the transmission so no you can’t really bolt it to a manual transmission. There is a motor/generator that is connected to the engine and most of the time it just sends electricity to the traction motor. Above certain speeds a dog clutch between the motor/gen and the traction motor is engaged. The exception is the CR-V which has a second second fixed ratio it can engage between certain mid range speeds.
Maybe with the electric motor they can prevent rev hang by using the emg as a brake?
My understanding is that rev hang has always been a byproduct of emissions. It can be easily tuned out, but then emissions creep up.
Sure, but an emg is another tool that usually isn’t there for engineers to use to meet emissions. Like the engine throttle could be slowly closed but the electric motor could provide the load to brake the engine instead of relying on clutch out.
Honda did a great job here reviving the Mitsubishi Eclipse.
I like the idea and might consider it for a toy now that we are empty nest. Like the idea of small 4 cylinder economy with an electric ‘boost’ when needed. We have one Toyota hybrid already.
If they do put a stick in it it’ll be a legit little coupe, but little coupes just aren’t selling so idk. I suspect it would sell better in the US with the Si powertrain though. Maybe have an auto hybrid HF and a Si manual version.
I really wish my company allowed employees to drive coupes, because so much about this seems compelling
Is that a personal car or company?
Personal, we don’t get company vehicles, they just dictate what kind of personal ones we can have
I don’t understand how a company can do that?
A personal car meaning one you pay on without any subsidy? WTF
Yeah I don’t see how this would legally hold up in court. Like what is next, what shows you can watch, who you can date, what your house looks like?
Well, we get reimbursed for business-related mileage
I get it, some jobs pull that crap, it sucks and you have a lot more patience than I do. Let me guess, small business tyrant?
(Every business should reimburse for mileage, and if they don’t, IRS rates are not bad. Also, it doesn’t hurt to check who else is hiring.)
No, it’s a big, publicly traded Irish multinational with its primary listing in New York
Personal vehicle used for business. Like how Uber has age & condition requirements
I hope you at least get decent pay and/or benefits because holy shit.
Surely you can have any vehicle, but your company won’t reimburse you unless it’s on their approved list of vehicles?
Yes that’s correct, but at 2,000 business miles per month, it would be a significant burden to not be reimbursed for that
Do you have to ferry clients around on some type of regular basis? Even having that need a few times a year is probably reason enough for them to have this policy. I can’t think of any other reason for it.
No, it hasn’t come up in the past 3+ years, though I guess it theoretically could happen at some point. I would be allowed to have a single-cab pickup, just not a coupe
Dang that’s a lot of business miles.
Are you US or UK based? I get a decent car allowance here in the US, plus a bit more for driving an EV. My mileage is half that a month with only about 100 miles being for business (travelling between work locations)
US, my territory is over 5 states (East Coast states, but, still)
Cool I guess but Honda really copied Toyota’s homework on styling.
Not sure Prius coupe by Honda would sell…
The two cars debuted around the same time, so I don’t think there was any copying going on, just a coincidence. And I would bet the DRL light bar-thing will be replaced with either an actual grille or a fake one on the production car.
I’m pretty sure he means that this car looks a whole lot like the current Prius that has been out for a while.
Just like the CR-Z they’ll market it as a sports coupe when it has the literal engine from an economy car, wonder why no one bought one at the end of its lifecycle and tell the public that sportscars arent’ profitable.
But was the old Prelude really much more, even in Si version? They were always Accord powertrains in a smaller, sportier bodyshell.
The 5th gen actually was. The H22 engine it had was not offered in the USDM accords and the Type SH also added the Active Torque Transfer System.
I don’t recall the Accord ever offering an “Si” model. But, regardless, Prelude got interesting things like four-wheel-steering, or pop-up headlights through its life.
My point was IIRC the Prelude generally used standard Accord powertrains in a specialized body. I loved the Prelude and wish I had appreciated it more back in the day.
It totally was. Until they diverged in the end, and I think that’s also where they lost their mojo.
Just as the Integra to the Civic.
Yep. IIRC DOHC HO Civic.
Japan had the Prelude SiR. https://www.theautopian.com/the-late-1990s-honda-prelude-sir-s-spec-is-the-hot-coupe-with-four-wheel-steering-you-forgot-existed-holy-grails/
Eh, it would (hopefully) be like a manual transmission current gen Prius. Stylish but fuel efficient with a manual.
While I’m not a fan of direct injection gasoline engines if they give the thing mechanical door handles and a physical key along with the manual I’d have to seriously consider getting one.
I’ll have to see how idiotic the finished product is before I can properly consider it though.
Honda has no other car with flush door handle. I’m 99% sure this is just for the concept.
“People on ‘Ludes should not drive”
–Jeff Spicoli
I love everything about it except Honda’s current gen DRL chin/eyebrow. It doesn’t look as offensive when you are standing far above it, but sitting in a car looking at it head on… not a good look (including civic and accord).
Honda knows they can shove a manual in whatever they want and enthusiasts will line up around the corner to buy it, inevitable dealer markups and all. I don’t blame them, it’s a good business model. Might as well “stick” with what you’re good at….
You’d think, but the CRZ was a huge failure when it did that.
I think the CR-Z is one of the most unfairly-maligned cars of the modern era, but it didn’t have a lot of power. The Prelude will likely be over 200hp.
Yeah, I worked for a Honda dealer when it was new and got to drive it. It wasn’t fast, but it had typically sharp Honda handling and the shift was great. I liked it a lot, but the MPG was pathetic for a hybrid. They easily could have gotten similar numbers from an ICE car with similar power. K swap CRZ makes for an incredible car!
I think a 2 seat economy car was and is a tough sell, especially when it didn’t offer a lot of speed or mpg to offset its lack of practicality.
True. It was weird that they didn’t have a backseat too, they did in most countries but not in the US. It was pathetically small, but still, having one is better than not.
And yet, they pull the stick from the Civic hatch excepting the CTR.
I don’t think Honda understand the mechanism for the desire.
THE PRELUDES BACK BABY!!!
If I was an engineer at Honda, the way I would do this is setting up 1st gear as electric mode only to move the vehicle until 25mph, when you move the gear selector out of 1st to 2nd, the engine kicks on and the electric motor keeps assisting. Basically second gear is your first gear but not for the end user.
The engine kicks on pretty fast on my Honda Insight Gen 1 with a manual, there should not be any delay on this transition. Just dreaming here lol
That’s actually really interesting! It would take some serious engineering to make the transition to “2nd” seamless I think?
I did not know the Insight or CR-Z were available with manuals. If I understand correctly, these just use the electric motor to help spin the flywheel and the transmission is conventional.
You are correct, the motor basically sandwiches between the engine and conventional transmission.
1st gen Insight was available with a manual transmission, I used to have one. Wouldn’t mind having one again.
You could also do some motor wizardry to allow for starting and stopping without the clutch. Maybe draw in a few buyers skeptical of manuals because of the learning curve or “because traffic”
What does it do if the battery is too low to get you up to 25 though?
Don’t mean to rain on your parade…but there’s always edge cases it needs to be ready for.
The engine turns on and the electric motors act as a CVT. Same as reverse on the MDX Hybrid. Or really any other Hybrid that is not in the fixed gear. Engine always provides electricity when it’s not available in the battery.
But this would be a manual transmission, likely with a single motor, not an eCVT or a simulated eCVT like current Honda hybrids.
Based on the premise you’re using an IMA – sure. If you took Honda’s current hybrid with twin planetary gear sets and gave the driver 4 or 5 gears to select from manually instead of a turboglide – the effect could be improved vs an IMA.
Well that was the premise that was proposed by Thomas. The current Honda system does not use twin planetary gear sets. On everything but the CR-V it uses a dog clutch between the motor/generator and the traction motor which is only engaged at higher speeds. The CR-V does use a planetary reduction for a second fixed ratio used at mid range speeds.
A fair point. My transmission nomenclature is still a weak point.
I believe you’ll find that second fixed ratio on the Accord as well.
Perhaps a more apt comparison would just be to use the MDX hybrid.
This may help economy actually. One of my hybrid’s biggest benefits is the electric A/C and water pump with seamless restarts. I normally turn off the engine stop start on normal cars I rent due to the lurching and delayed reaction. My hybrid starts rolling on electric while starting the gas engine (if needed). First gear electric starts in ‘normal’ or ‘econ’ modes may be a great middle ground.
I am more shocked how much better than the new Integra this Prelude looks.
Agreed, but also the fact that it looks like a Prius coupe
Which is fine because the Prius looks great.
Oh I agree, I am just shocked to see Honda totally ripping off Toyota’s front end.
Wouldn’t that make the Prius the prelude to the Prelude?
Ooh good point. Does that mean the prelude is actually the interlude then?
That or a Postlude.
Nah that’ll be the prelude based crossover.
Waiting for the Infiniti Quaalude.
I got excited that this was a reference to pilotredsun’s ‘not so fast’ but that was an Audi
Nah, just adding to the all these lude comments.
I bet this looks svelter than the Prius. To me the Prius looks a little chonkier in person than it does in photos. Still great, but not quite as sleek in person.
^ fresh from a book of “sentences to horrify a time traveler from 2005”
2022 even
Fair, but also, justice for gen 4. I think people are wrong, they look fine
*closes tab and slowly backs away from keyboard
Relax, I’ve never been trusted with aesthetics anyway. Few cars truly upset me, visually speaking.
Heck, the internet loves the Aztek and Multipla now!
Yeah, but I think now that bmw has shown us new levels of ugly, those cars look quaint now
True, true. But the new Ram grill is just as bad (if not worse) as the BMW ones.
This looks more like an Integra than the Integra!
Yeah, Honda made a new ILX and called it an Integra. Now they’re making an actual Integra coupe and calling it a Prelude. Next they’ll make a new Prelude and call it a …CRX?
That’s because the “integra” is not an integra, it’s an ILX with a different badge. It was never an integra, and never will be.