It’s an unfortunate fact of life that reality is occasionally cruel. Sometimes the poster car is met with a litany of caveats, a rift between in-period legend and actual experience. Sometimes the less obvious choice is pleasantly surprising, meeting or even exceeding the high praise it warranted when it was new. Consider this be a tale of two sports cars, the iconic Honda S2000 and the somewhat unloved Mazda RX-8.
Let me preface this by saying I respect the hell out of the Honda S2000. As an engineering exercise, especially from a brand that hadn’t built a front-engined rear-wheel-drive sports car in decades, it resulted in some astonishing figures and electrifying force when you really had the hammer down. However, the other 80 percent of the time, I’ve found every example I’ve driven to be asleep at the wheel.
It starts with the early two-liter engine known for its prodigal redline and occasionally clowned-upon torque output of 153 lb.-ft. What people seem to forget is that it didn’t make peak torque until an enormous 7,500 rpm. The later 2.2-liter F22C engine attempted to rectify this, but it didn’t quite go far enough. While an increase of nine lb.-ft. is appreciable, the torque peak only dropped to 6,800 rpm, and fuel cut fell from 9,000 rpm to a comparatively modest 8,200 rpm. As a result, no matter which S2000 variant you choose, all their powertrains are underwhelming unless you’re absolutely on it.
However, power delivery is only one facet of a sports car. After all, the Mazda MX-5 is the best-selling sports car of all time, and nobody would accuse it of being all ate up with motor. A proper sports car has to indulge your senses, and while the S2000 has a sublime shifter and that wind-in-your-hair appeal, it doesn’t talk to your fingertips. The dialogue between the contact patches of the front tires and the driver’s hands is part of what makes a sports car trustworthy and engaging, but the electric power steering in the S2000 does its best to lock that out, with little feedback making its way through the steering wheel. As a result, it’s a car you drive more reactively than you would a Miata or a Porsche Boxster, finding yourself more frequently on the far side of the tires’ optimal grip peak.
This is a little less optimal in AP1 models, as they developed a bit of a reputation for bumpsteer due in part to the toe curves of the rear suspension. This characteristic was improved on the later AP2 cars, but it’s still incredibly easy to see why so many of these roadsters end up with questionable Carfax reports. For those who’ve never been on track or taken a car control course, the combination of twitchy limit handling and quite uncommunicative steering could be quite nasty.
Then there’s the fact that the driving position isn’t quite spot-on. I’m 5’10”-ish tall with a 30-inch inseam, which is pretty damn average for a man. Despite this, I sit weirdly high in an S2000, and the reach to the fixed steering wheel isn’t ideal. The end result is a sports car that’s excessively singular, a weapon when you’re on it, curiously aloof when you’re not, and one that doesn’t exactly make the best learning tool in the world. Happily, there is a Japanese sports car from the 2000s that offers a sky-high redline while making up for some of the traits the S2000 lacks. The weird part is, a lot of people seem to hate it.
I’m talking about the Mazda RX-8. Sure, it might not be a convertible, but on the surface, it seems to feature several things that made the S2000 an instant icon. The six-port Renesis two-rotor engine in early manual models revs to that legendary 9,000 rpm mark, and although it might be down six horsepower over an F20C-powered S2000, it makes six more lb.-ft. of torque at a comparatively more reasonable 5,500 rpm. Add in a similarly bolt-action shifter, and the result is a much more accessible power band than in the S2000.
According to Honda, the curb weight of a 2004 S2000 — the more common AP2 model — clocks in 2,835 pounds. This means it actually weighs about the same as a period Porsche Boxster, which totes around two extra cylinders, an extra trunk, and almost eight inches more length. Comparatively, a 3,029-pound 2004 RX-8 isn’t preposterously heavier, especially when you think of how much extra car it comes with. Rear seats, two extra half-doors, a better sound system, a metal roof, larger alloy wheels that you can stuff bigger brakes behind, you know the drill.
Crucially, the RX-8 doesn’t feel 194 pounds heavier than an S2000, partly because it’s heavily related to the third-generation MX-5, partly because it, like the S2000, is front-mid-engined, and partly because it actually talks to you like you’re hoping it will. Despite also sporting electric power steering, Mazda’s hardware and calibration gives the driver of an RX-8 a brilliant feel for what’s going on, from effort building naturally with load to better feedback of camber changes in the road.
I’ve been lucky enough to drive several RX-8s including Mazda’s own heritage fleet 2010 Touring model, and they’re all instantly joyous. The driving position is excellent, the engine is revvy yet surprisingly tractable, the chassis breathes with the road, and while the car’s eager to rotate, the steering gives you a ton of warning before the rear tires actually let go. As a result, the S2000 is engaging on some drives, when the traffic’s a whisper and the roads turn curvy and you can really wind the powertrain out, but the RX-8 is engaging on every drive, even if you’re just running out for takeout.
Now of course, we have to mention the elephant in the room, Renesis reliability. Sure, a loved RX-8 will require an engine rebuild at some point, and you will have to put up with rotary engine peculiarities such as oil consumption and not wanting to shut the engine off when cold for fear of flooding the engine, and the big end result is extra car and attention and needing to keep a few grand in the bank for the inevitable rebuild. However, compared to a nice S2000, a nice RX-8 is cheap. Cheap enough to easily make up the difference of one, possibly even two rotary engine rebuilds. Looking on Bring A Trailer, the price range of nice S2000s is between $20,000 and $35,000, while a solid-looking RX-8 will run you between $6,000 and $15,000.
So, if you want an engaging, communicative Japanese sports car that revs to 9,000 rpm, give the Mazda RX-8 a try. It might not have a legendary reputation, but it genuinely feels legendary. Worth trading the wind-in-your-hair feel for? In my eyes, absolutely.
Top graphic images: Honda; Mazda; depositphotos.com
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Ugh. I want an RX8 so hard. But 19 mpg on premium with premix every tank. So I did the practical thing and bought a MAZDASPEED6 big bro for my NB1 Miata. I’ve rebuilt most of it and will be rebuilding the rest of it (engine) soon. Figure I’ll be 12Gs deep on a car worth half that that I’m certain I will only enjoy half as much as an RX8. Mazda, you bastards!
“the big end result is extra car and attention and needing to keep a few grand in the bank for the inevitable rebuild.”
Hmmm, that sounds prudent. So, if you own an RX-8, you need to pay extra attention (and money) and have an extra car.
There is a reason that the Rotary has a three sided rotor. It’s all about the power of three:
The rotary has the reliability of a 1.3l engine, the power of a 2.6l engine and the fuel consumption of a 3.9l engine.
I still want one, especially since my new Autopian T shirt has one on it!
Rotary is a fun science fair project or toy if you’re wealthy enough to not care about maintenance and reliability. I always liked the RX8 conceptually but… no. Now if they refreshed it with Mazdas current styling language and powered it with their I-6 they might have something interesting. TBH I live in a relatively affluent (but smart) area and I don’t recall seeing an RX-8 on the street in years.
I think you’re probably being a little unfair on the S2000, but you’re right on the money about the RX-8.
Had a friend with an RX-8 and what a sweet car that was. Handling was sublime, steering may as well have been hydraulic (fooled me), and the engine had no right being that special in a car like this. Smooth, buttery, and linear power delivery up to 9k with an amazingly unique sound to go along.
Having said that, you can all guess what happened to it. He now drives an ND…
Having never driven either of them I never really felt much draw to the S2000.. like, yeah, 9k redline is neat to say but that’s about it. The RX8 has a rotary which is worth more cool points (to me) but I’ve literally never heard a good word about a Renesis motor.
Oh, I’ve been tempted by the call of the RX-8 sooo many times. Every time I get that new product itch, it’s time for an RX-8, I say. Then I go and actually try to find one. And literally all of them have significant motor issues. Unless someone rebuilt that spinning corn chip recently, the juice is not worth the squeeze. As rebuilding a Reny is actually kinda oddly expensive. Seriously, no-one ever sells unless it stops hot starting. As they’re not worth much, but also can’t easily replace. So, everyone waits till the apex seal is more of a window. Those sweet 7k RX-8s are going to be a real slow 17k car all said and done.
And S2Ks are overpriced. If you refuse to accept Miata as the answer. And refuse anything that doesn’t come from the land of the rising son. A SR20 Swapped and/or JDM S14 is honestly probably the way to go. There’s a lot of them around, and the prices are coming down
I have never driven an S2000, so I cannot compare the two. However, I do daily drive and RX-8. It is sublime and the best chassis I have ever driven in my life. It feels planted and inspires confidence. I took it to Tail of the Dragon and all of the surrounding roads last year and it was absolutely amazing. The steering still has feel, the engine revs to infinity, and you can fit four adults in a pinch.
Now, yes, they have a rotary. As much as Mazda has tried, the rotary just does not work as a mass market engine. I say this as someone who has had at least one rotary in my possession for the last 25 years. If you know all of the tips and tricks and can follow them like a disciple of Kenichi Yamamoto, you can have a long and happy life with your rotary engine. Anecdotally, through 25 years and 200k miles across three cars, I’ve only killed one engine. And that was because I let that car sit for ten years and the coolant seal wall corroded away. But they aren’t for everyone, especially someone who wants to do zero maintenance.
Also, if you can find one cheap with a blown engine, these engines are not all that hard to rebuild. There’s lots of careful measuring and it’s tedious, but anyone who has torn apart a piston engine (or even not) can rebuild a rotary.
Go buy an RX-8.
Yes, the RX-8 talks to you.
“I am about to break and best of luck finding someone who can fix me.”
that wind you hear outside is definitely saying “apex seals.” It’s not your imagination. It’s a premonition from the ether.
I think these are cool cars for a very specific type of person. As folks are mentioning, the running costs are very high. Much higher than an S2000 or Miata of your choice. The fact that they’re really weird looking doesn’t help their case either. I’ve seen many in person and up close and something about it just doesn’t look right to me. It’s kind of a bulbous microcosm of every tooner trend from the 2000s.
Which again…is great for a very specific buyer. The other elephant in the room is that the fuel economy is absolutely putrid. I’ve heard that when you wind these out as god intended you’ll be getting low teens. Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn’t. I’d imagine most people don’t care, but it’s something to factor in to the ownership costs.
And again, that’s the rub on these. If you’re mechanically inclined, are nostalgic for the early Fast movies, and don’t mind the compromises then I do think they probably make for fun weekend cars…but count me among the folks that would rather have a toy that’s more carefree to own.
Once again, a Miata is the answer. Or…for the amount of resources it’ll take to keep an RX8 alive I’d rather roll the dice on a sketchy Boxster.
MPG on the S2000 isnt great either. i manage about 19 combined.
Lol my nephew is saving up for a Miata, like a real high school kid should, and mentioned the RX-8. I let him know why they were cheap, not that he was considering one anyways. But just to make sure. He is planning on making a great decision, DON’T EFF IT UP BOY!
I’ve kind of had the same thought before, but I also loved the RX-8 since it first came out.
Also, it might have some reliability issues in the context of a daily driver, but at this point, it’s more likely to be a weekend toy (like the S2000), and any premature wear should come much more slowly.
It’s not just the horrible rotary (as redundant as that is), they also rusted like they were made in the ’70s in a factory undergoing constant worker strikes, hence why I’ve only seen one in quite a lot of years and I think that one is a lawn ornament as it doesn’t seem to move. It’s also ugly, a particular letdown considering how beautiful the last RX7 was. Is the steering better than the 3? I bought the 3 (also a rust-prone POS) because it was reviewed as being a driver’s car with great steering feel, but only if compared to a Corolla. TBF, though, there really wasn’t much else in that market, so it’s not like I had a lot of options. The S2000 has always been overrated, but I hate high hp/low torque engines, so neither are for me.
You were so close, it’s the NC2 Miata that is basically the RX-8 minus 500+ lbs, and it has the droptop, a reliable engine, and hydraulic steering.
This was what I was thinking. Aside from the rear seats, the NC is everything people love about the RX-8 without all the things people hate about the RX-8.
I still want to own an RX-8 at some point, RX-7s being mostly unobtanium for me and s2000s doubly so. If anyone here has played the tokyo xtreme racer reboot on steam, that car gives people nightmares in the form of gloomy angel.
I think there’s a lot of sense in this, the RX8 is always acknowledged as having a fantastic chassis, it’s just saddled with the worst rotary engine since the 70s unfortunately.
That being said some easy reliability mods and attentive maintenance and you can actually have a pretty reliable little car. For a rotary treat the maintenance like you would an Italian exotic (ie before you reach the milage and frequent) and you’ll generally be ok or get warning signs of impending doom and the rebuild will be much less expensive!
I really like Mazdas. I own a competitor to the S2000 (an MX-5). I can’t wrap my head around the RX-8. I think every generation of RX-7 was beautiful, but I find the RX-8 ungainly looking. Also, a big reason for my purchase of an MX-5 is that it was cheap to operate and gets pretty good fuel economy. I think the same applies to the S2000. Not sure it applies to an RX-8.
I submit the the 944/968 may be a closer approximation of the car that everyone wants the S2000 to be.
And amazingly enough – you can get a 968 Cabriolet with well under 100K miles in the 25-35K range.
YUP! They’re still a bargain by Parsh standards, and they won’t be for long. I love 968s in particular, for some reason the wonky 928/944 hybrid styling just tickles me the right way.
I had an RX-8 for a few years. Super-duper fun car to drive, as long as you’re not stressing over apex seals. As Thomas noted, they’re very comfortable. Even the back seat isn’t too bad, albeit slightly claustrophobia-inducing.
One of the great joys of that car is that it’s best to take it to redline each time you drive it in order to keep the engine healthy. “Sorry, officer, but I had to do that to keep my engine reliable!”
Eventually, though, got to the point where I was stressing more over apex seals than I was enjoying the car. I sold it and bought a Z32 300ZX, which I loved dearly.
How quick does the motor get to operating temperature? I got a short commute…
From Experience with my RX7, water temps are usually up in about 5 minutes (which is where the flooding risk comes from) but oil temps take about 20 minutes to fully rise and you need to do that a bit for engine longevity too
But when are you not stressing over apex seals?