RAM invited me to a media event at the old Connor Assembly Plant (where Dodge used to build Vipers) to show off the brand’s latest Heavy Duty and Chassis Cab pickups that will be for sale in early 2025. What I learned is that, while there are some nice styling and hardware (transmission) changes coming to the 3500, it’s the Ram 2500 that’s going to be transformed for 2025. And you can thank a certain motor from Columbus, Indiana for that.
I first want to say that this was my first time attending a media event for the Autopian, and it was awesome. I’ve been in the automotive engineering field for about 20 years. Going to manufacturing plants, engineering centers, proving grounds, and secret prototype garages isn’t a huge deal for me. This time, instead of being greeted by some harried engineer that needs me to fix some problem, I got to meet the head of engineering, interior and exterior design — even the CEO! They all seemed happy to see us journalists. I’m used to dealing with prototype vehicles that are covered in wires, grime, and gaffer tape; the trucks at this event were impeccably clean. It was super cool and I’m honored I got the chance to attend.
The presenters kept returning to the theme of unsung heroes during the presentation. While many pickup trucks are primarily used for commuting, Ram stressed that for their Heavy Duty trucks the statistics are flipped. 90% of owners use their trucks for towing or other hard work vs 10% for pickups in general. The chassis cab truck on stage with a giant hay bale mounted on a “stinger” off the back drove the point home. Although some will be used as “mall crawlers,” Ram claims that most will be plowing your roads, acting as ambulances, hauling heavy loads, and doing real truck stuff. Ram’s presentation was meant to show that RAMs are built to work, and that this new generation of HD RAMs make that work a lot easier.
What’s New?
On display was the updated HD line of RAMs in regular and chassis cab configurations. Chassis cab trucks come without a pickup bed, and can be upfitted by a third party manufacturer prior to delivery — think dump trucks, cranes, tow trucks, ambulances and the like.
The standard RAMs come as either 2500 and 3500 models, with a long list of trim packages including Big Horn, Laramie, Tradesman, and Power Wagon (The chassis cab trucks are available as a 3500, 4500, and 5500).
The biggest update for 2025 is a beefy new “high output” powertrain available across the whole lineup (previously only the 3500 got the “high output”). And no, it’s not available on the Power Wagon — we asked, with fingers crossed. On top of that, all heavy duty trucks get two more gears in the transmission, and to make maneuvering these beasts easier with a trailer several new towing features have been added to keep you from backing into things. Also on display was a host of interior and exterior updates that go a long way to differentiate between the many different models (via use of chrome, black, body-color, etc).
You can see the new styling in the images here; we caught a glimpse of it late last year, as Thomas wrote in “Ram Releases Photos Of 2025 Ram Heavy Duty Without Camo, But We’re Begging Ram To Put It Back On.” I actually don’t mind the truck’s looks; more on that later.
The Beating Heart of the HD Line
The presenters were excited to reveal the upgraded 6.7L Cummins turbo-diesel. With 430 horsepower and a giant 1075 lb-ft slab of torque, this inline-six makes the same amount of torque but 10 more horsepower than the previous high-output, which was not available on the 2500 (its “standard output” Cummins of the same displacement made do with 370 horsepower and 850 lb-ft).
Ram says 70% of RAM HD buyers opt for the diesel on their build sheet, and this new motor promises improvements in “drivability, fuel economy, durability, startability, serviceability and noise, vibration and harshness (NVH).” Ram’s press release discusses the changes to the “all-new” Cummins 6.7-liter inline six:
A redesigned block and head, robust heavy-duty pistons, new performance intake manifold, a new turbo, larger intake/exhaust valves for improved port flow and a higher-pressure fuel system enhance the diesel’s hallmark durability and efficiency. To make service easier, and improve air flow and performance, the new Cummins engine uses improved intake port geometry for top feed injectors, top load lubrication and integrated fuel filters.
Helping customers in extremely cold environments, Ram Heavy Duty trucks equipped with the Cummins High-Output Turbo Diesel use glow plugs.
Unladen, Ram says “The 2025 Ram 2500 now offers the Cummins High-Output Turbo Diesel engine, which results in quicker 0 to 60 mph times (6.9 seconds vs 8.0 seconds on 2024 MY).” That’s over a 10 percent improvement. When towing a full load, the truck accelerates to 60 mph six seconds faster than the previous generation Anyone who’s merged onto a freeway or had to pass someone while towing knows that is a huge deal.
Replacing the old cast iron intake manifold with an integrated cast aluminum manifold and redesigning the head with bigger valves allowed Ran to better manage airflow to increase power and efficiency. A new, more robust fuel pump squeezes dino juice through the rails at 2200 BAR or 30k PSI, resulting in a proper charge and better emissions. The fuel pump is gear driven via the cam shaft. Ram says it improved refinement by switching from loud spur gears to helical gears, which cuts down on noise while keeping the classic Cummins sound.
The 1075 lb-ft of torque puts it right in the middle compared to the competition from Chevy and Ford. Chevy’s 6.6L Duramax diesel makes 975 lb-ft, while Ford’s 6.7L makes a class leading 1,200 lb-ft.
If you need a Hemi, the 6.4L gas V8 is still available as the base engine. Power is similar to the previous generation (405 Hp and 425 lb-ft of torque), but Ram says it was able to improve emissions by 40%. But RAM’s presenters made it clear that the new Cummins is the star of the show.
Granny Gears
Putting this power to the ground — and replacing the old Ram 3500 high-output Cummins’ AISIN AS69RC six-speed and the standard-output 2500/3500’s Chrysler 68 RFE — is a new column-shifted TorqueFlite HD 8-speed transmission from ZF.” Ram says this transmission and the updated Cummins enable 36,610 pounds of towing capability with a more fuel-efficient 3.42 rear axle ratio,” noting that “Max towing was previously available only with a 4.10 axle ratio.” The 4.10 is now only available if you get the Hemi.
That tow figure is down about 480 pounds for the 3500 high output. The 2500’s tow rating is the same 20,000 pounds as the outgoing 850 lb-ft Cummins and six-speed auto truck, but, per Ram, that max figure is available on more cab configurations (4×4 crew cab, for example).
The new ZF transmission has a high 4.89 ratio first gear (the outgoing 3500 high-output had a 3.75 while the standard output 3500/2500 had 3.23 first gear ratios), which is pushing “granny gear” status, helping get the truck moving with heavy loads. This ZF has a trick feature where it will sense whether the truck is loaded via various sensors. If unloaded the RAM will start in 2nd gear for smoother acceleration.
On 4×4 models, power is routed through the same outgoing Borg Warner transfer case, a American Axle 9.25 inch front solid front axle with center disconnect, and an 11.5 or 12 inch limited-slip rear beam axle. Suspending these axles on the 2500 is a multi-link suspension with coil springs and optional rear air bags. On the heavier duty 3500, 4500, and 5500 the rear gets two stage, longitudinal leaf springs. If you spring for the Power Wagon model, you can lock both axles and disconnect the front sway bar.
More PTO
If you want to power more than your wheels, the new HD RAM chassis cab trucks can be fitted with both a left- and right-side PTO which can be operated simultaneously. A PTO, or Power Take Off, is a gearbox attached to a vehicle’s drivetrain that can transfer power to various accessories like compressors, hydraulic pumps, blowers etc.
While the previous generation RAM’s PTO was turbine-driven, which limited its use in low vehicle speed applications (unless you went with an aftermarket solution), the new PTO is engine-driven. This is good for people who will be using PTO-driven accessories at crawling speeds, such as snow plows, auto wreckers, dump trucks and the like. From Ram’s 2015 PTO guidelines:
The Automatic transmission PTO is turbine driven not engine driven. What this means is that the PTO will work only with the stationary mode in park, or in mobile mode with the vehicle moving at approximately 7 mph and above or in neutral. Because of this the PTO system is not a suitable system for vehicles like: snow plows, autoloader wreckers, or dump trucks if they are used to dump and spread at a crawling speed.
Working in Style
I had a chance to sit in the trucks at the event in Detroit, so I’ll just tell you my impressions.
While the RAM HD is massive, I think it wears its bulk much better than the competitors from Ford and GM. The domed hood and mid-height headlights recall the ”big-rig” style from the revolutionary 2nd generation Dodge Ram that debuted in 1994. The exterior styling department put in a lot of work to differentiate the different models, with multiple new head and tail-lights styles and four unique grills.
The good looks continue into the interior where certain trims get new unique, premium materials including a weathered wood trim and textured metal that look quite handsome. There are plenty of physical buttons on the dash to supplement the giant screen. The seats were comfortable and the center console has an insane amount of storage.
Sitting in the back there was plenty of legroom and all the power outlets you’d need for a long roadtrip. The higher trims look more upscale and cohesive compared to the competition from Chevy and Ford. Overall, the interior makes the RAM a nice place to spend time.
What Tech Do You Get?
With these trucks, you can expect the same level of tech and features that are available in the average luxury car. The first thing you notice when you hop in the interior are the screens. The gauge cluster is a 12.3 inch screen with all the menus and displays you’d expect on a modern vehicle. The center stack houses a 14.5 inch touchscreen which is 34% larger than the outgoing model (a 12.3 inch screen is also available). What was surprising was the available 10.25 inch screen on the passenger side with access to navigation, camera displays or movies via an HDMI plug; a segment first. Their updated Uconnect 5 touchscreen software and hardware debut on the 2025 HD trucks. The screens have higher contrast and run five times faster than the previous version.
Those screens come in handy with a 360-degree camera view, as well as the ability to display both sides of a trailer on a single screen to help with maneuverability. There’s an option to add an auxiliary camera to mount wherever you like. This would be useful to mount on the back of the trailer or even inside the trailer in case there are some horses or Texarkana beer you want to keep an eye on.
You can find yet another optional screen in the rear-view mirror, offering a view unobstructed by your rear passengers’ giant 10-gallon hats. With the push of a button, it reverts to a normal mirror which is a nice touch.
RAM HD trucks come with lots of safety tech. This includes adaptive cruise control and forward collision warning. Optional are traffic sign recognition, active lane management, park assist, and even drowsy driver detection for when you’ve been putting the hammer down for too many hours.
Even more useful is a new in-bed power inverter that produces a shocking 2.4 kilowatts of electricity. Two standard 110-Volt outlets in the bed let you charge your tools, or power a TV and stereo for some killer tailgating.
Another awesome feature in the bed is the RAMBox. These are illuminated, weatherproof, lockable storage bins built into the bed rails. They come with both an 115-volt outlet and drain holes, hopefully not being used at the same time lest you want to get a shock while pulling a cold one out of the ice.
Let’s Tow!
Obviously towing capability is a strong draw for HD RAM buyers. In addition to the 7,590 lb payload and 36,610 lb towing capacity, Ram offers lots of features that help you get your cargo to its destination easily and safely. Power telescoping trailer tow mirrors is one example; but the really trick feature is the Trailer Reverse Steering Control. You enter the trailer’s measurements in the touchscreen, then use a dial to control which direction you’d like the trailer to go. The vehicle’s cameras track the trailer and turn the steering wheel to guide your trailer where you want it. It is sure to make trips to the boat launch a lot easier.
You also have an array of trailer monitoring options in the Uconnect touch screen. The Trailer-Tow Pages can give information on tire pressures, brake and light status, and auxiliary camera shortcuts all in one place.
How Can You Spec It?
Whether you need a truck for work or play, there’s a long list of trim levels to choose from. There are 6 foot 4 inch and 8 foot bed lengths; and regular, crew, and mega cab configurations. With the mega cab rear passengers get an extra three inches of legroom and five cubic feet of space. You can choose from Tradesman, Big Horn/Lone Star, Laramie, Rebel, Power Wagon, Limited Longhorn and Limited models. If you need a chassis cab RAM your choices are limited to the Tradesman and Big Horn models.
There are so many trim levels and options packages. I stared at the 15 page table and wracked my brain on a way to summarize it in a coherent and interesting way, but I couldn’t. It is safe to say, whatever flavor RAM truck you’d like, there is a spec out there for you. The base 2500 HD Tradesman starts out at $47,560 while the base 3500 is $48.565. Chassis cab trucks cost $49,285 for the base 3500 up to $56,770 for the 5500. With so many available options prices only go up from there.
What Do You Think?
Although I’m not in the market for a heavy duty truck — my ’99 Ranger handles my truck needs fine — I dig the new RAM HD. It feels like good bones fit for an ambulance driver, a rancher hauling horses around, construction worker or tow truck operator. The base Tradesman interiors are comfortable and well equipped, but you can spec a classy interior fitting for a luxury car if you have the need and the cash. The handsome exterior houses capable hardware that should handle some tough jobs; hopefully we’ll be able to put that to the test when we drive one of the new trucks.
All photos from RAM.
One of my best friends works for ZF, and was heavily involved in the research and development of that trans. He is absolutely beside himself with excitement about it being offered.
I have no interest in ever owning one of these trucks, but from what he’s said to me over and over again (and the YEARS he and the team have spent working on perfecting it) it is absolutely the one to get with this truck.
It’s a beautiful truck but did you see the major feature? The Cummins still has a dip stick! (Teardrop of joy emoji.)
The engine sounds impressive, but how many years are needed before we can be sure it’s free of major problems that have plagued past engines from various manufacturers? I can’t imagine spending that kind of money without being very sure the engine will prove to be a long term reliable performer.
Being an evolution and not a clean sheet of paper design, I have no problem with it.
Just wish passenger cars had the same allowances for diesel emissions as these 80% of the time single occupant daily drivers.
No problem getting ~7 liters and 1200ftlbs of torque but the earth will be destroyed if I can get a light passenger diesel 4 cylinder that makes 150 horsepower.
Literally it would burn, but somehow engines multiple times the size getting a quarter of the fuel economy are just dandy. Getting faster every minute.
This is why I have no respect for emissions rules.
“What Do You Think?”
I think it’s at least 6″ taller than it needs to be, the wheels are too big, the lift over for the bed is too high, the grill is too big/too imposing and the headlights are mounted too high and thus, will be annoying to the rest of us driving regular cars.
And I don’t look forward encountering the odd aggressive bro-truck idiot in one of these during my daily commute.
As for the “benefit” of the more powerful diesel… these trucks are way overpowered to begin with… and it only helps encourage the aggressive bro truck driving behavior.
This does not excite me.
And given the issues of climate change, I would much rather see the introduction of one of the smaller 4 cyl ISB Cummins diesels mated to a hybrid electric powertrain (with optional plug-in capability) along with the 120V AC (and possibly 240V AC) outlets a setup like that would enable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine
A powertrain option like that would be far more exciting to me as it would likely eliminate the need for contractors to have noisy standalone generators. Something like that would also reduce engine idling. And it would likely result in a meaningful fuel economy improvement.
Also regarding the statement ” but Ram says it was able to improve emissions by 40%.”
Which emissions exactly where improved by 40%? Is it soot/PM? NOx Emissions? CO2 emissions?
Given the increase in power, I doubt CO2 emissions changed much at all.
So yeah, this truck is “better”. But in my view, it’s not actually better in the ways it needs to be.
This. My grandpa drove tank retrievers in WWII and logging trucks thereafter. This new 2500/3500 is closer to those two than a pickup truck. Why?
the current 2024 builder options are interesting. You Cannot get vinyl seats on the second tier work trucks. But somehow you can upgrade the center stack and add in the power wagon options and still get a hose out type interior. the dealers don’t like to sell them or order them this way it seems and it seems like a shame, but I applaud them for keeping the 6.4 for now as I don’t believe I would even consider a turbo 3.0 gas motor for a tow pig.
Hopefully the 10 speed is more reliable than GM’s Version and the old Chrysler FWD 9 Speed. Hunting gears while towing a bunch seems like a recipe for disaster.
I’m disappointed to keep seeing the I’ve-got-a-tiny-PP giant grilles, look at that last pic of the red truck and imagine a pedestrian disappearing in front of it at an intersection crosswalk. As someone who once witnessed a kid nearly lose his life because of such absurd styling bullshit, I gotta say they are just as dumb as, well, the electric door handles referenced elsewhere. Yeah I know that’s how it’s done now but ???
Great article but I do have a nit to pick- the word RAM is used inconsistently in terms of capitalization, RAM and Ram is used, there is one instance where it is spelled Ran. Not a big deal but it distracted me some.
I won’t buy any diesel with DEF. Whether it be Diesel Pickups or Diesel Semis from my friends who work on them emissions equipment seems to be the thing that puts them in the shop 80% of the time, I’m pretty sure for the MB Sprinter vans you need to pull the engine at the 80K-110K mile mark in order to replace the necessary emissions bits to keep it in compliance. Sure you got an engine that’ll last a million miles, provided you pull the engine 10+ times in that million miles at $14K+ per pull if you use a dealer.
IMHO Naturally Aspirated Port Injection Atkinson Cycle hybrids with E-CVTS (planetary gearsets) and the new gen of range extended BEVs are the new long lived drivetrains, diesel sadly has lost the battle to emissions regs.
…and that 10% of customers rolls 90% of the coal…
but seriously looks like a solid work truck and Dodge has done an admirable job refining their styling over the years to still feel current while respecting what is now a classic design theme(GM take note). I do take issue with the giant screen-rode in a 1500 recently and the screen there already felt superfluous and pointlessly large, not sure why they thought it needed more besides “Truck HD”.
I initially didn’t care for this new front fascia but now that I see it officially I kind of like it. Curious what these new tailights look like though.
these are generally just too big for the mall crawler crowd to want, it’ll take too long to park at Lowe’s when you pick up a sheet of drywall and some topsoil unless you double/triple/quadruple park it. Not that those people will hesitate to, though
For the first owners, these are work trucks and will only be visiting your local strip mall at lunch time because that’s the nearest Burgerking location. The second owner (bros from the suburbs that have a weird affinity for flannel and country music) will undoubtedly be trying to navigate the drivethrough at starbucks.
What is a mall? I think there may be one of these “malls” in Minnesota.
In the fabled land of north carolina malls have failed to die off, possibly kept alive so douchebags have a place to park these and feel important
From what I’ve seen of mall crawlers there isn’t such a thing as too big. I’ve been driving a Tahoe around an Island in BC for the past couple of weeks, and man do I wish I had a small car here.
I wonder if the RAM 2500 with the Cummins still has the same payload / towing tongue limit capacity issue. The previous generations of the truck always had the same GVWR for the Hemi and Cummins version (Ford and GM by comparison seem to beef things up with their 2500 series diesels), so the resulting payload capacity was pretty pathetic for such a heavy truck (especially in a crew cab 4×4 configuration), closer to what you’d expect from a 1500 series truck. Towing was also affected since you’d never be able to approach the towing capacity as tongue weight would severely limit you (to more like a 10k lb trailer)… as such the 2500 diesel always felt like a mall crawler, the 2500 hemi or diesel 3500 were the ones that could actually haul and tow.
Should just start calling these “GRAM” trucks, because my grandmother told me she wants one.
She’s a legend! I hope she gets one.
Just to nitpick: the old cast iron intake manifold was the integrated version, the new aluminum one is not. It bolts up to the head, which is still cast iron.
Also, the output of the chassis cab engine is unchanged, 360/800.
Huh, I wouldn’t have guessed that all 10% of Ram Heavy Duty owners that only use their trucks to haul mulch from Home Depot twice a year all live in my immediate area. Either that, or Ram is delusional about the statistics (at least for 2500 and 3500 trucks).
With that said, the new front end is definitely a step backwards in attractiveness over the previous design, which itself was a step backwards over the previous design. Like others have said, there seems to be a perpetual escalation in “who can make the most over-styled, ugly truck” between the big 3.
I live in wonderful(/s) fracking country and to their credit the HD Rams here either are pulling long ass trailers with Oil and Gas stuff or farmers who got rich off mineral rights royalties pulling trailers with 100 bails of hay on them. The rest have those utility beds for welding and such. There’s a handful who drive around in spotless Power Wagons though.
Most of the trucks doing actual work around me are Fords and GMs, while most of the bro trucks on 26″ wheels and mud tires are Ram HDs. I’m not sure why the split ended up that way, as it generally seems more evenly distributed when I go to places like Texas, but that’s the general (and generalized) breakdown in my part of Colorado.
Yeah, strange how that stuff shakes out. Chevy HD’s are usually the pavement princesses around here. I see a lot of Ford trucks doin work though as well.
The even more odd part is that the breakdown of the GM trucks doing work here is either 1) white, no-option base model Chevy 2500/3500HD or 2) GMC 2500/3500HD Denali. I always kind of chalk it up to “employee truck” and “company owner’s truck”, but I have no real basis for that assumption.
While I’m not a fan of the drivetrains if I was really driving through rough stuff and or loading the bed with rough stuff where the paint was likely to get scratched and the body dented the aluminum body of the current F Series pickup is what I’d want.
Sadly the drivetrains mostly suck, and IMHO the best one they had they just got rid of (3.3L V6 NA, no cylinder deactivation tech, port injection, aka the gutless wonder).
I think the sweet spot is the Super Duties with either the 6.2L or 7.3L gas engines, as they seem to be able to handle significant loads without the downsides of the diesel engine or the smaller turbo engines used in the F150. A buddy has an F250 with the 6.2L on his ranch and it hauls his tractor and loaded flatbed and dump trailers with relative ease.
I completely forgot about the gas HDs. Personally with the loads I pull the 3.3L in a Single cab 6ft bed F-150 is plenty, but if I were pulling heavy loads I’d probably go with the heavy duty gas F-series Trucks.
the 2.7 Ecoboost has been solid and it’s a big step-up from the 3.3 when it came to performance. I’ve seen a few with over 250K on them and a couple with 500K. Mine’s at only 195K.
It feels much quicker than the Pentastar Ram I owned before (which performed about the same as Ford’s 3.3) while having the same fuel economy despite the Ford being 4WD while the Ram was 2WD
I ain’t touching one of those damn ecobooms with a 10 ft pole.
I can’t say enough good about the 6.2 in my F350
Neither can my friend. Six years now and his truck hasn’t missed a beat despite also never doing anything without the bed full or a trailer attached. I wasn’t sure how well the 6.2L would replace the V10, but by all accounts it has done a commendable job.
If your immediate area is the NE, maybe we do have the entire concentration of the 10%.
Most people towing and doing work around here are using GM/Ford/Toyota with a sprinkling of Nissan.
RAM seems to be largely reserved for the jerks who like to weave in and out of traffic at unsafe speeds, only possible because their trucks are hauling absolutely nothing.
I can only assume the lack of brain matter in their heads and lack of money in their wallets helps them go faster. They also must give out Thin Blue Line and/or Punisher stickers with every vehicle purchase because that’s the average RAM customer around here.
Generalizing…. Sure. Mostly true in these parts….. Yup.
I’ll just go ahead and disagree with you there. While not as ugly as a Silvarado (now with more grill!™), the exteriors of the full size trucks are getting overworked of late. In the final image (the red one) I count five hundred (/s) horizontal lines on the front end between the lights, plastic separating the lights, the grill, and the air dam. It just doesn’t feel cohesive to me. The outside of these things are just too busy for my taste.
It’s to stress the importance of big. And chrome. And how you can have the biggest brick that fits in the wind tunnel.
Because, bigger, chromier, and brickier is better. Somehow.
It’s like they keep using AI to come up with a new front end design.
Ram has had the best interiors in trucks for some time; it seems like that will continue here.
No brainer to bring the HO to the 2500 even if programming will probably limit the torque enough from a start that you wouldn’t be able to tell much difference vs the standard output. People shop numbers.
The new grilles and headlights are a miss for me, as is the continued use of rust-prone steel for the bodies. The 6.4 Hemi is a solid engine, but Ram is close to a decade behind the modern gas powertrains from Ford and GM. I’m not surprised 70% of Ram HD buyers get the diesel, but I bet that number used to be even higher. They need a competitive gasser.
Honestly, they might just jump to a Ramcharger hybrid set-up instead. No point in trying to make a new V8 at this point, no matter where they start, and unlike the opinion of some deep-in-the-web Chrysler forum members, the Hurricane would be a non-starter in the HD’s. Better chance to see a 3.6 at this point.
There’s so much less regulatory pressure on HD trucks that I think V8s will make sense there for a long time still.
Who is the customer demanding a hybrid HD? If that person exists, they are probably a Cummins buyer now, not a Hemi. Guessing this based on the idea that they don’t mind paying extra for more power and more complexity.
They may assume the 6.4 is “good enough” and just ride with it another decade, but I hope not.
I don’t know who, or what customer, would want a hybrid HD; all I’m speculating is that they’d try to find other avenues rather than investing money into: a brand-new engine architecture, update the engine they’ve been saying is being dropped, or build a new engine based of a current one. If that wasn’t clear, I apologize.
I definitely agree with your last sentence though.
There is a need for an HD hybrid to provide the chassis for RVs. A hybrid is perfect for RV needs. Highway travel then gas, EV for camping.
Won’t argue with RV’s but a hybrid HD would be great for keeping heat or AC running at a rest area, especially since diesels these days foul up DPFs when they idle. Hybrid is also great for running tools at a job-site. Fuel economy (as part of total cost of ownership) has to play a role in a commercial truck as well.
EPA 2027 drops allowed NOx by 70% and PM by 50%
There are also hefty fuel economy increases on the horizon
Let’s see what happens when the new administration comes to power.
There are very specific rules to writing regulations. Last time around the Trump administration directed NHTSA to rewrite CAFE to reduce yearly increases from 4% to 1%. That new rule didn’t take effect until May 2020. Then Biden won and directed NHTSA to rewrite CAFE to effectively erase the Trump years of 1% and catch back up to Obama era requirements. That also took years but is why CAFE requirements increased 8% in 2024 / 2025 and 10% in 2026.
The vast majority of automakers kept their programs on track and just booked the GHG credits. Stellantis is the only major automaker that embraced the new rules and now they are paying hundreds of millions in CAFE fines. I doubt anyone is going to gamble on a regulatory rollback again
Regardless of what Trump does this time around EPA 2027 will go into effect and companies will have invested the money and R&D time to meet them. There literally isn’t time to rewrite EPA 2027 before it takes effect.
“Real” big rigs have been moving toward better aerodynamics and visibility, for years, with smaller grilles and sloping hoods while this class remains stuck in an “arms race” to see who can push the biggest slab down the road. We’re struggling to escape a weird feedback loop where “it sells” because it’s all that’s available for sale . . .
I hear ya. I’m looking at the height and shape of that RAM hood, and then that engine, and thinking there must be a foot of clearance there? Waiting for them to go full big rig and have a hood/fender assembly that hinges from the front. At least that would be practical for working on the engine.
Someone gets it. These trucks sell because they are the only choice for anyone wanting a new full sized truck.
I’m not sure I agree here. I think grille size on semi-tractors and HD pickups are merging because their power outputs are more or less merging. You have a certain amount of heat rejection that you must deal with which means increasingly larger radiators and intercoolers.
Footprint rule. The larger the vehicle’s wheelbase and track width the lower the MPG requirements. it’s why the new Tacoma and 4Runner have big flared fenders and a wide stance with the same width cab as the previous gen. If they made these new pickups with a focus on better aero and better visibility they would look like those smashed cartoon hotrod pickups, tiny windshield befitting a chopped roof hotrod, wider than a freight train, even they can’t sell that shit. They make their trucks look the way they do today to give them proper enough proportions to pass uncanny valley territory. I hate massive hoods and massive grills, but this problem was created by the Footprint rule which was created by the Government with Lobbyist approval.
1. Full size trucks have already maxed out the footprint rule. 74 sq ft is the max which equals a F150 crew cab w/ the 6.5 ft bed
2. Footprint only applies to light duty trucks. Over 8,500 GVWR heavy duty rules apply.
Interesting. Ty for the info.
Agreed. Although the footprint rule may have been lobbyist created with government approval. It’s a shame.
Not bad.
When I was younger, my buddies and I used to have arguments about which manufacturer built the best engines. In those days, it was an argument between GM, Ford Motor, and Chrysler Corp.
So it feels weird to me that manufacturers like Stellantis will not only admit, but *boast*, that they can not build an engine and transmission good enough to power the vehicles they build.
Back when I worked in big teams designing engines we’d argue about the same thing. Honda, Yamaha (who design engines for Toyota) and BMW used to be the top three.
If advertising that they use Cummins Diesels wasn’t a marketing boost they’d just slap a Ram badge on it. A lot of OEMs outsource engine design, they just keep quiet about it.
At this point, Stellantis barely qualifies as a manufacturer. They are an assembler. As are a LOT of the legacy automakers. I don’t get it. They talk about shareholder value while moving away from vertical integration.
Shareholder value is generally enhanced by moving away from vertical integration, at least in the short term (long term depends).
This is MBA 101, which is why everyone is doing it.
To take the idea to the extreme, there’s a reason car companies don’t build iron mines and steel mills like Ford did 100 years ago.
Those same non-vertically-integrated OEMs bemoan the fact that they can’t offer an EV at a competitive cost to Tesla while returning a profit because they lack Tesla’s ‘price structure’ (AKA vertical integration for the expensive stuff i.e. batteries and power electronics).
I’ve never understood how assembling a product from a nesting-doll stack of tier 1, 2, 3, etc. suppliers, each of whom need to take a ~50% markup on their slice of the product, is supposed to somehow better than vertical integration where costs can be controlled and the total net profit goes to the OEM.
While ‘economies of scale’ can be the answer to that question in some circumstances, for most major cost drivers in automobiles I don’t think that’s valid anymore – once you hit a certain annual volume of production of widgets, say 100,000/year to pull a number out of the air, there really aren’t more economies of scale to have – you just build another fully optimized factory, and now you can make 200,000/year – at no further reduction in unit cost.
If you’re producing 8000 Miata’s a year, sure, outsource. If you’re selling 700,000 F-series trucks a year? Nah, papa Ford should own that production stack from the bottom up, just like Henry intended.
Amen.
Again, to take this line of thought to its logical end, should Ford buy back the River Rouge steel mill, the Mesabi iron mines, the fleets of ore boats, etc? Should it design and build its own microchips and its own infotainment (rather than use Android or Apple, I seem to remember an uproar when GM tried this)? Should it invest capital in its own tire factories and rubber plantations, its own herds of cattle for leather seats, its own refinery for the engine oil and so on?
If no, then where *should* the line be drawn?
The idea of farming things out is to focus effort and investment on your core competencies. If the argument is building engines is or should be a core competency, you’ll get no pushback from me personally, but this type of thinking is the reason why companies do this.
Before I continue installing my foot even further into my mouth, a disclaimer; I’d never claim to be an economist, and I mostly put these thoughts out here in the comments in hopes that I’ll stimulate someone more well versed in the topic than me will respond with a good explanation or rebuttal.
That said, in some cases, the correct answer to ‘should Ford own the mine?’ is probably ‘yes’, especially in cases where the raw materials represent a large fraction of the total final product value, and/or when the supply/demand/price market of the commodity is highly volatile and there is value in the OEM being able to count on long-term stability of supply and cost – I’m thinking the situation with lithium, cobalt, etc. in recent years. For things like iron ore, or glass, or rubber, probably not anymore – those markets are stable, mature and commoditized.
To go back to my high/low volume analogy, though, while I’d argue that Mazda should probably get its Miata unibody stampings from some supplier like ArtiFlex, Ford shouldn’t source the frame rails for the F-150 from someone like Metalsa – keep that control and value creation in-house.
So I understand this is a case-by-case decision based on a bunch of factors, but I also think that as a company you have to be careful not to die a death by a thousand cuts – if you reduce yourself to an assembler of sourced components, what portion of the value-add is actually yours? Anyone can buy a bunch of parts and put them together. Those sorts of companies were extremely common in the early days of the US auto industry, and they were also all short-lived.
I agree with you more than I’m letting on, I’m just playing devils advocate as someone with an MBA who worked in manufacturing for many years and saw/heard many of these discussions.
Well, what do YOU think an OEM should do? I’m here for other’s hot takes. 🙂
I will preface all this by saying I have never worked for an OEM, so my experiences may not be directly comparable.
When deciding between insourcing vs outsourcing components, the usual discussion points were cost, quality, and risk.
Cost – This can be complicated because it’s not just piece price vs piece price.
How much overhead do we save by outsourcing (this often means how many people can we reassign or lay off)?
How much new equipment would we need to buy to support our future product roadmap being manufactured in house?
How many suppliers are capable of manufacturing what we need, and how aggressive can we be in our negotiations with them?
Quality – A bit more straightforward, but how much rework can we expect from our own stuff vs the suppliers? How many warranty claims for the stuff we can’t catch?
Risk – Will the suppliers deliver what they promise? Will they stay in business?
As for my thoughts:
I generally agree with Mike regarding stable vs unstable supply chains. Something that needs to come from overseas, and China especially, is risky right now. I don’t think it’s a surprise that OEMs are leaning into battery joint ventures, lithium mining, etc. My opinion is that this should continue.
Advanced manufacturing, CNC machining, etc is so far above the historical capabilities of most large organizations like automakers by now that I doubt they could find the expertise to bring a lot of fabricated parts back in house if they wanted to. Not without massive investments in training as well as the equipment itself. I don’t see how this is financially feasible.
You disparaged automakers as “assemblers” upthread, but assembling thousands of complicated components in a repeatable, cost-effective, and accurate way is very difficult! There’s plenty of value-add here. The engineering and design chops of OEMs are also still top notch. That isn’t going to change, or if it does, those companies won’t be in business anymore.
The markup from Tier 1 to OEM is about 1-2%. OEMs play suppliers against each other and make them take on the risk of owning capital equipment that may not be fully utilized or even become obsolete.
I think back to my grandfathers farm, and one of my uncle’s farms. Their farm-trucks being an old v6 pickup with vinyl bench seat.
Partly being that farmers need to put their money into things other than pickup trucks – all the other expenses of running a farm, and partly that they never felt a big pickup was a necessity.
Need to move something big? Use the tractor.
Need to beef some cattle? You’re calling that in, and they’ll come with a rig if you’re moving more than one or two.
A forgotten bonus, though, with vinyl is that it’s seriously hard wearing and you can brush the hay off the seat and don’t worry too much about mud on your jeans when you sit down. Downsides are, definitely, on hot days.
That has not been my impression, farmers DO have those beater pickups for work around the farm/going into town, but I don’t know many who don’t have some sort of HD for towing
Back in the days the previous poster is mentioning, even 1-ton truck couldn’t tow as much as a 1500 does now. So they either used a tractor around the farm, or a bigger than a 1-ton truck to tow something.
For towing heavy stuff, there was the “farm truck” — an old, beater medium-duty truck usually outfitted with a stake bed. Hauled hay, grain, livestock, whatever just by changing the stake sides to solid panels and tarping it when necessary. (There was always a “dock ramp” to make loading the truck easier that was usually made of concrete or timbers and filled in with earth and gravel.) Pulled trailers when things had to go further down the road than the tractor was comfortable for, usually saw most of its use seasonally when bringing in the harvest. Usually a decade or more older than any of the pickups because it never racked up much mileage in farm service; often purchased used for cheap because the previous owner had racked up enough mileage and depreciation in commercial use that it was high time to sell it off.
These kinds of trucks are what many states still have an “agricultural” license plate category for.
Exactly what I was talking about.
HD trucks have so much performance it’s hard to go wrong unless you have a very weird specific use case. That being said i’m really loving the look of the super duty series. Ford is beating ram at their own gime in the “big rig” styling. but the simplicity of an inline six does seem appealing.
These days, no diesel is “simple”. The need for DEF and meeting emissions requirements has made diesel life far more complex.