The Toyota GR86 was built in partnership with Subaru as a fun, sporty coupe. It’s delivered on that promise well for the past few years and across two generations. If Toyota is keeping the model around, we’d expect to see a new model in a few years time, but according to one Japanese outlet, it could come with a twist.
BestCarWeb reports that a third-generation GR86 is expected as soon as 2025, a remarkably early time frame given the latest-generation model only hit the market in 2021. The real shocker, though, is that it believes Toyota has a four-door version in the works. It’s a rumor, of course, and a compelling one at that. Translated, the outlet states that the report is not “definitive,” and that the four-door model is being considered at this stage. BestCarWeb notes it has had reports of the new model from multiple insider sources. We’re not sure what to be more excited about, this, or the potential idea of Toyota bringing back the MR2.
It might sound crazy, but there is something to it. The GR86 currently exists as Toyota’s prime affordable sports car, a segment that chairman Akio Toyoda has deemed important to the company. At the same time, Toyota doesn’t really have a compact sports sedan. Throwing a couple of extra doors on a modified GR86 could absolutely fill this segment, and do so well.
If Toyota built a four-door GR86, and it’s a big if, what would it have under the hood? Well, BestCarWeb has theories on that too. It reckons the next model will feature a hybrid inline-three 1.6-liter turbo, cribbed to some degree from the GR Yaris and GR Corolla, but that it will stick with a front-engined, rear-wheel-drive layout. It also notes that development is being led by Toyota this time, rather than Subaru.
It’s not the first time Toyota has explored toying with the GR86’s body style. The company’s CALTY Design Research studio produced a wild concept for Scion, back when that was a thing, known as the X86D concept. It turned the Scion FR-S platform into a futuristic four-door shooting brake that felt almost like a version of BMW’s clown shoe design but from some kind of neo-Japan.
The Aussies also had a go, too, penning a much more production-ready design. It maintained a two-door layout, and looked much more like the regular first-gen Toyota 86 it was based on.
Regardless, when it comes to the next-generation model, BestCarWeb is discussing a sedan layout, not a hatchback or shooting brake. The sedan body style hasn’t been the most popular over the last decade, but it’s easy to imagine it attracting some buyers that want a GR86 but don’t want a two-door vehicle. It’s plausible that some kind of sedan-like liftback design could come about, too.
I tried my own hand at whipping up an idea of a four-door GR86, but it came out so poorly I can’t possibly show it to you here. You’ll find it on Twitter if you care to hunt it down, but heed my warning and avert your eyes. [Ed note: Gee whiz Lewin, how bad can it be? … OK, yeah, I better pixelate that.]
As an outright rumor, we’ll just have to wait and see what Toyota comes up with. Sound off below if you think a sedan GR86 is a dope idea, or a dopey one.
Image credits: Toyota
I’d be a fan… I drove a Ford Focus wagon in Germany. It was a turbo Hybrid with a manual.
Not the quickest car, but it was still engaging. It was able to do 120 MPH on the autobahn, while getting excellent gas mileage.
If Toyota build something like that, I could see our household driving one.
As a CO skier dealing with 60 degrees in winter, I would like to increase our driving efficiency to do our part to reduces emissions when it is new car time. A fun hybrid would have me buying.
No.
Maybe it could have doors like a Mazda RX8, where there are the front doors, then the rear “doors” open like suicide doors and are smaller. This was to allow better access to the seats in the back.
“It’s plausible that some kind of sedan-like liftback design could come about, too.”
Ohhh, yes. Yes please….
I just got a 17 BRZ and have no trouble with the car seat and a toddler (thanks Jason for that will it baby FRS review forever ago!). The only body style difference I would want is a shooting brake…but we all know how likely that is.
Sources further confirm it will be lifted and feature black plastic cladding, wheel arches and fake plastic skid plates. A three row version should debut before 2030.
Don’t. Even. Joke. About. That.
Like the Mitsubishi Eclipse.
Here is my thinking..
Rumors for a while where suggesting that next GR86 will share platform with Lexus models. So in 2025 Lexus should announce new IS platform. Maybe followed by RC but that model doesn’t sell at all, so why waste money on RC… instead lets cut the IS chassis, get rid of extra comfort components (cheaper material, less interior bits, less electrionics), and sell it as new GR86 – maybe in 2-door and 4-door Grand Coupe style body?
What about the engines? new GRC 3-banger should allow Toyota to land emission regulations world-wide. Subaru’s FA24 in NA form can’t do it. So 1.6T can be tuned down to 250-ish hp in GR86 model (that tune is already sold in base GR Yaris in Japan) and for Lexus variant make it 300hp + Hybrid combo…
Of course hybrid will require auto transmission, which is fine for Lexus, but Toyota is already using their manual transmission in GR86, so maybe there is more life in it to keep in next GR86?
Anyway… those are wild ideas. Let’s see where it all goes.
And what about Subaru BRZ? Not hearing ANY rumors about 2025 refresh makes me think this is it for that model 🙁
Toyota needs to just give up right now and let Adrian design it. Otherwise, they’ll just end up with him ripping them another one on the pages of The Autopian.
Yeah sadly that is one of my reservations for this is even if it did get built Toyota’s styling department is extremely hit or miss, and even their hits with a few exceptions are kinda eh…
I wanted the 86 when I bought my current car.
Went to test drive one, and my wife wanted to come with me. She took one look at it in the dealership lot and instantly rejected it. Didn’t even test drive it. I tried to convince my wife “getting the kids into their carseats will be my problem because it’s my car, you will only have to do it once in a blue moon.” It being a 2 door meant my argument fell on absolutely deaf ears, “I don’t care if it is infrequent, I’m not wrangling them into those seats at all, ever.”
If a 4 door 86 had existed then, I’d be driving one today. That was only a year and a half ago, so even if they came out with the 4 door now, I likely wouldnt buy it. I keep my cars a good long time.
Doesn’t matter how many doors, its a manual so your SO won’t allow it.
I was prepared to do the unthinkable, the borderline-sacrilegious, and buy the automatic.
One of the great things to come out of my divorce was being able to put a carseat in an Evora. They even have the LATCH system!
I just got a BRZ and have no trouble with the car seat! But the Evora has been my dream car since it came out. Fortunately for me my SO defers to me on car stuff (mostly cause she couldn’t car less) so it’s a manual too.
Amortizing the platform makes sense, and a four-door (or even five-door) version as a new micro-Lexus for North America would do it. I know everybody hates small crossovers, but a RWD-based replacement for the UX would distinguish itself from the GLA-Q3-X1 and so forth. The LBX is on a Yaris platform that isn’t offered here, but a Lexus XX with a turbo+hybrid, a little less NVH and just enough of a lift to be a plausible crossover instead of the wagon it actually is could sell with a decent margin and wouldn’t cannibalize GR86 and BRZ sales.
There are rumours of a wagon variant too. Wagon GR86 powered by the GR Corolla engine is shut up and take my money territory.
This approaches the question I’ve always had starting with the Miata: why not amortize this one-off platform cost by using it to build a more mainstream vehicle, like a hatchback? (Like my old Mazda3, which I thought of just about every time I drove the underwhelming thing. If it were RWD—or even just FWD without the stupid amount of negative rear camber ruining the handling—how much better would it be.) Problem is that there probably isn’t a good way to do it without so many changes that it would either ruin the Miata or might as well be a different platform and would necessitate too long a nose for something like a compact hatch, increasing its footprint without increasing interior volume (probably even losing some with the driveshaft and rear end). That they killed off the Mazdaspeed versions and went to torsion beam even as they moved “upscale” tells me sporty doesn’t sell well enough.
The present wheelbase of the GRZ is the same as a mk1 Subaru Legacy (which was also narrower). Those cars were available with AWD (the GRZ is also based on existing Subaru platform, which is AWD), so if they change the proportions enough (which they would have to), it would be possible to have a 4-door vehicle with usable rear seats without changing the wheelbase or footprint much, if at all. I would hope for a hatch or liftback, though. Problem is: what would the extra weight do? Much of the car’s great driving character comes from its relative lack of weight that gives it a more vintage feel and great handling. OK, change the engine, I don’t have a problem there (though I’m still suspicious of that overboosted 3 cylinder), but gain too much weight and a higher cg adding interior capacity, plus the kinds of features a person looking at a more practical body style will demand (or marketing will tell them they’ll demand) and what’s left? Mediocre steering (if good by today’s horrendous standards)? Poor throttle calibration, a laughably bad clutch pedal (though that’s a simple fix with a spring change), and a loud interior that a person driving a sedan (or their SO) will probably not want to tolerate? What will building the platform to accommodate a heavier vehicle with different load demands do to the coupe version (if it remains extant)? What about cost? It’s a steal at $30k, but $40k+? No way, but they’d be adding a lot of crap to not raise the price. It’s a completely different animal at that point, anyway, and no longer a successor than I would be to Cyrus the Great. I’m also too familiar with Toyotas to believe the driving experience of their own platform will be anything but worse to drive in terms of feel as they don’t seem to understand how to do that, even in their “good old days”. Finally, is there really a big enough market waiting for this? I think the price will end up too high and not having AWD everyone seems to think they need will limit demand against competition. Far more people will say they want it than will buy it and the changes would likely make a remaining coupe version unappealing to the people who like what the present one is.
As a 1st generation Toyobaru owner it doesn’t need 4 doors, what it desperately needs is a hatchback and possibly some T-tops.
Also, Lewin’s 4 door 86 rendering looks like it stopped too fast and got stretched out 🙂
CR-Z vibes on the hatch.
Toyota sells no compact sports sedan, and that okay, because they’re kinda dumb.
Getting in and out of a two door backseat just isn’t that bad, especially for kids. Get over it, and drive the cooler coupe.
So you are either a bachelor or old enough that your wife held the babies in her arms until they were old enough to toss in the back seat (that actually is how I was raised, my parents never had a car seat).
In this day and age, for better or worse, laws demand babies need to be in a car seat. While I was never dumb/crazy enough to try and strap in a 30 lbs. kid into the backseat of a coupe, just doing it in my Infiniti sedan was pain enough. Some of us want the sportiness of an actual car vs CUV( i.e., fat wagon) plus the practicality of a 4-door.
So no, sports sedans are not dumb, and may the ghost of the AMG Hammer haunt you for your remaining days for saying so!
I am a bachelor, but I spent my entire childhood riding around in the back of a 2dr Jeep Cherokee. It wasn’t until we later got a 4dr Cherokee that we realized that the four door is not especially easier to get into the back of, and is actually more difficult for tall people.
I also frequently strap young kids into the 3rd row of an SUV, which is kinda the same thing.
I just don’t think it’s that big a deal. If a sedan is truly compact, the back doors will be tiny and not that useful.
Why? There’s room in this world for two door sports cars. As an aside, the current one should be sold as a two seater. I was sitting in one at the auto show a couple of days ago. There are seats back there, but they are only for people with no legs.
Completely disagree. The seats are emergency use only, but not having them in an emergency means I guess people go in the trunk? Mine have come in handy multiple times already. Plus, the seats make for a lot more space to store things and them folding down makes it far more capable than I imagined. I built 18′ of cabinets carrying all the material in the car, including 9′ boards, without having to leave the trunk open.
I mean, I guess all two seaters are out if you feel like you need to be able to transport multiple people in case there is some sort of emergency. No C8, Miata, TT, Z4, Cayman, etc. for you!
Yes, but I also wouldn’t want any of those even if they had some actual room (the TT was a 2+2) as none of those interest me, anyway. Add the Z and the Supra and there are already more 2-seater toys than 2+2 sports cars that can work as daily drivers.
I don’t know how to feel about this. On one hand, it would help justify the existence of the GR86 and help move more cars (not that Toyota has been bothering to like, actually build any of these). On the other hand if the sedan sells well, they’ll use it as an excuse to can the coupe.
But I doubt they would kill off the coupe. At least that’s my hope.
But a better engine with more power is a change that I can certainly get behind.
My god I hope they do this-I hoped they’d do this with the 1st gen model-which a la the original 86 always should’ve been a more useful body shape even if a 2 door.
I’d like to think they’d have a bonafide hit on their hands, most of us who can afford a GR86 priced car new really need more practicality-I could much more easily justify buying a 4 door than the current coupe. And a hybrid + turbo four powertrain seems like the right choice for this moment in time. Get the character of a small maxed out engine but the low end torque of the electric motor as well as great mileage.
Is it just going to be a rebadged, underpowered WRX?
We’ve come full circle. 4 door platform -> 2 door -> 4 door.
I am shocked there’s even a next generation, sales have been pretty dismal, a 4 door would maybe sell less bad, but probably still not really all that well. Could be an opportunity for brand diversification, maybe make the coupe exclusive to either Subaru or Toyota and the sedan exclusive to the other. Until the other dealers complain over only getting a coupe, then all bets are off
Huh? Dealerships can barely keep the 86 or BRZ on the lots. There’s over 2700 new Corvettes for sale in the US but less than 400 new GR86 for sale. If they made more, they’d probably actually sell more.
They sold 11,000 last year, plus another 4,188 BRZs, Chevy sold over 34,000 Corvettes (and also 31,000 Camaros, which is being discontinued due to poor sales). The discontinued Challenger saw 45,000 sales last year, the Mustang sold 53,000 copies, the Miata sold 9,000, and the 370Z brought up the rear with a pathetic 1,619.
But, the Toyobaru is a low priced car with thin profit margins that sells in numbers that are barely a rounding error for a corporation as gigantic as Toyota, it’s a miracle they’re still building and investing in it, they could kill it tomorrow and it would have zero negative effect on their financials
Yeah, they sold nearly half the volume of the Corvette with one sixth of the inventory.
They aren’t selling because they aren’t making enough. The Supra is in a similar situation, low sales numbers but even lower inventory. You can’t sell what isn’t available.
Artificial scarcity is a hell of a drug
Or they aren’t making them because it isn’t being ordered, their previous high was like 6800 units some 7 years ago
The Subaru dealership I used to work for had BRZ orders booked until 2025. As soon as the ’24 books opened, they filled in a little over a week.
Toyota doesn’t take orders on the GR86, or any vehicle.
Dealers have to order them
I work at a Toyota dealership (a near-MSRP one, no less).
They don’t take orders.
The dealer has to order their inventory though
The dealer Toyota tax hurts. I am not gonna buy a damn thing from them new as long as there’s a 10% MSRP tax. And it’s tough to find a Toyota dealer who does not pull that shit.
If the sales have been bad then Toyota has no one to blame but themselves and their miserable dealerships/stupid ass allocation system. Manual GR86s near me were listed for up to $15,000 over MSRP for the first year and a half they were out, and people were paying for them!
I just pulled them up now and all the new manual ones within 150 miles are still listed for over MSRP and used ones that haven’t been roached are going for more than their original MSRP. That’s Toyota’s fault! And also the fault of JDM Bros who decided paying $50,000 for a goddamn GR86 was worth it for the clout.
I also think that car journalists (not the good folks here, mind you) really ruined the GR86 too. It’s talked about like some sort of transcendent, life altering experience that belong in the automotive Valhalla when it’s just an affordable, RWD, manual sports coupe.
Yep, any dealership selling them for MSRP has them flying off lots
Uhh….. In 2024, an affordable, RWD, manual, sports coupe IS automotive Valhalla. It’s also extremely unique; how many other cars fit that description? The Miata RF, and the Ecoboost Mustang?
I browsed GR86s recently and saw a manual listed at MSRP on Toyota’s website, but the dealer was across the state line in Southeast Toyota Distributors territory, so it had Toyoguard Platinum ($699) and probably a whole bunch of other port-added crap that wasn’t disclosed.
I want to believe that there is space in the current automotive landscape for a beautiful, affordable, RWD, fuel efficient, fun wagon with an available manual. The space has been abandoned and Toyota / Subaru seem like just the companies to plant their flag on it.
Start it under $30k, give it 200HP and make my dreams come true.
I don’t think RWD is that critical for most people, but I love my FWD manual wagon, a lot.
That’s today’s reality: I want a modern 1800es. What I can get is a XC40 for $50k.
-an enthusiast without deep pockets is pinched.
I would literally sprint to buy something like this. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my end, but I think sedans are poised for a bit of a comeback. With car prices reaching ludicrous levels, electrification charging ahead, and the general embiggening of everything I think sedans offer some size/price/efficiency advantages that will come into play again.
I would love a light, driving focused, small, RWD sedan. It literally doesn’t exist. The closest things are the Civic SI, Elantra N, and Jetta GLI but all of them are front wheel drive and outside of the Civic I’m not sure if I’d call any of them light (Toecutter nods approvingly in the distance). I also wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota has the sporty Civics in its crosshairs.
The GR Corolla was supposed to be a CTR killer/alternative and unfortunately it just isn’t. The Honda has it beat in too many areas. But you know what it doesn’t offer? Correct wheel drive. None of this class does.
Please make this a thing Toyota…and if you don’t either bring the Lexus LBX Morizo or Crown Sport to the US. If you do none of these things you’re dead to me…well, not really. But kind of.
Yeah, I’d be one of the first in line to get a proper 4 door GR86.
Not if I get there first, bucko!
100% there with you-at least on paper this would be my next car.
Well, the good news is that the Crown Sport is an SUV, so it has a decent chance of making it over.
Any reasonable sedans, though, are DOA.
That’s a no from me. The 4-door would likely end up more popular than the 2-door, likely resulting in the demise of the 2-door.
The X86D looks like a less cohesive E87 1er
Why not an SUV while they are at it
Don’t give them ideas!
Don’t panic. We’re just going to make a little taller, give it extra ground clearance, add some sporty cladding, and smooth everything out with a standard CVT. Nothing to worry about.
The GR86Cross is born! They’ll be clogging the passing lane and making you miss green lights in no time! Ha ha ha ha!!
Oh god. What if they WRX it and throw cladding all over it? What will we do then?
Line up, I suppose
Add box flares?