I grew up in Texas. I went to college there and got married. Bought a house. Ate a lot of BBQ and tacos. Watched football. Sat in a hot, powerless home just counting the minutes until I could bask in the air-conditioned halls of an HEB. Texas things. Growing up, your full-size truck options were: F-150, some kind of GMC/Chevy, or one of those “other” trucks. The “other” truck was almost always a Dodge Ram. New data shows that the Ram is at risk of losing this honor.
Speaking of losing things, dealers are estimated to have lost about a billion dollars in the CDK Global cyberattack. Maybe relying on one company for everything is a bad idea — other than The Autopian. You should definitely rely on The Autopian for all of your news, apparel, fashion advice, and entertainment.
And, because time is a flat circle, let’s end with Musk delaying one of his projects and Stellantis getting in another tiff with its own suppliers.
Ram 1500 Slips To 5th In Market Share Behind Toyota Tundra
I like the new Toyota Tundra, much as I like most new Toyota products. Would it be the first truck I’d buy? Probably not. I’m still, in my heart, an F-150 man. If I wanted a diesel truck for towing, well, I’d probably buy a GMC Sierra. If I was just tooling around town? The Ram 1500 is a mighty comfortable truck.
That’s roughly the order of full-size half-ton trucks in my brain, and that’s mostly the way it’s been for more than a decade. Just because it’s in third place doesn’t mean I don’t love a Ram, of course. My wife drove a red, short cab/short bed 1500 with the Magnum V6 when we started dating, so I have many fond memories of Ram, going back to when it was a Dodge Ram and not a Ram Ram.
If you group the Sierra/Silverado as one truck unit, then American preferences have long agreed with me (which is rare, otherwise we’d have gotten a 2nd season of Keen Eddie). Sales figures show that it’s usually been F-150, Silverado/Sierra, and Ram 1500 in the top three. If you want to get super detailed, it’s long been F-150, then Silverado, then Ram 1500, then Sierra.
No more. Look at this:
Automakers do not give breakdowns of specific truck sales in any helpful way, so when we get quarterly sales data we only get to see “Ram P/U” for instance, which includes all of the larger Ram 2500 and Ram 3500 trucks. The same goes for Ford. At least Ford gives us monthly data, both GM and Stellantis now report on a quarterly basis.
Therefore, we’re left with looking at retail registration data at a long delay, as S&P Global Mobility did here. This data only gets us to April, but it shows the rise of the Tundra since its debut in 2021 and the sudden decline of the Ram 1500. The fact that the Ram 1500 slips to fifth in April, behind both the Sierra and Tundra, is alarming.
It gets even worse:
Those are inflows and outflows from the Tundra from/to other competitors. Since the debut of the new truck in 2022, the Tundra gained more ground than it lost and, in particular, picked up a ton of conquests from Ram 1500 owners.
Now, Ram is still selling the old-ass Ram 1500 Classic (which I like) as it preps for a new truck. David drove the new 2025 Ram 1500 and thought it was a strong entrant into the market. It’s possible this is just a blip as Ram flips over to a new truck and the new 1500 will stop the slide, but so far Toyota sales are up 31% this year while Ram sales are down 20%. [Ed Note: It’s likely that the transition to the new-generation truck is hurting sales (the old gen was a bit long-in-the-tooth for its price, along with high interest rates. I did have an initial thought that maybe Stellantis (who has made it clear that it wants to stop buying carbon credits from competitors) was trying to reduce its overall GHG footprint (and therefore carbon credit requirement), but to do that by reducing Ram volumes sounds like a bad and absurdly expensive idea. -DT].
It’ll take a lot more conquests for Tundra to surpass Ram and I’m doubtful it’ll happen this year. The fact that it’s a conversation at all is more bad news for Stellantis.
Study: Dealers Lost $1 Billion In Revenue From CDK Global Attack
As we thought, the CDK Global ransomware attack has massively disrupted about half of the dealerships in the United States. How bad is the damage? Estimates show that June sales definitely suffered, coming in below expectations.
Now a new analysis shows that dealers probably lost in excess of $1 billion during the three-week period from the start of the attack to the resolution.
Based on June sales results, Anderson Economic Group on Monday issued a revised estimate to its June 28 estimate, which was a prediction that dealers would experience $944 million in losses. The group now estimates that total direct losses to car dealers in the three calendar weeks of the cyberattack actually reached $1.02 billion.
[…]
The $1.02 billion in losses includes revenue from the nearly 56,200 new car sales that Anderson Economic Group estimated were lost during the three-week period. It also factors in lost earnings on parts and service, additional staffing and IT service costs, and additional floor plan interest costs on inventory that could not be sold. The estimate does not include damages to consumers, reputational damages to dealers, litigation costs and multiple other categories of damages, said Patrick Anderson, CEO of the group.
You can almost hear the lawsuits now.
Musk Delaying Robotaxi
How do you know a Tesla product is real? It gets delayed. In this case, the long-promised Tesla Robotaxi was going to be shown off on August 8th. Then that event got pushed back to October. And now?
Requested what I think is an important design change to the front, and extra time allows us to show off a few other things
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 15, 2024
Musk gonna Musk.
Stellantis In Another Fight With Its Suppliers
When not antagonizing governments, Stellantis loved to beef with its suppliers. This doesn’t always go well, but Stellantis keeps doing it anyway. Why? Carlos Tavares, pictured left above, seems to love to squeeze the most out of everything and everyone.
This time it’s a company that makes fuel tanks for the Pacifica PHEV, stating that it needs an increase in unit price to help cover its own costs. The basic supplier line in all these negotiations is that Stellantis has made huge profits, partially on the backs of suppliers who shipped fewer products during the pandemic and have seen their own input costs go up.
Stellantis reportedly tried to get a judge to stop the supplier from ending its shipments of parts, saying the line would have to be shut down, but a judge denied the motion.
The decision is a blow for Stellantis as the automaker turns to the court to protect it from supplier demands for better pricing. The company has argued that its suppliers are bound by contract terms even if the economics have become unfavorable. Lawyers representing the suppliers have argued that the supply agreements are not enforceable requirement contracts.
In a case against MacLean-Fogg, Oakland County Judge Michael Warren also denied a preliminary injunction against the supplier. To keep production going, Stellantis is paying the company under protest while the case works its way through the court. After the judge indicated that Stellantis was likely to win the case on merits, however, MacLean-Fogg’s attorneys moved the case to federal court.
I’m not an expert in any of this, so I’m curious to see how it all plays out.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s Tom Jones on the Ed Sullivan show. What else do you need?
The Big Question
Can Ram hold off the Tundra or will Tundra replace the Ram 1500? What’s your favorite big truck?
I’m an F150 owner, but if I was buying a new truck I think I would definitely take a good close look at the Tundra. Ram, not so much.
The $1b of loss doesn’t feel right, surely most of it is just delayed income, rather than loss of? If you need a car, you need a car, and if you car is broken, you’re going to fix it. If they system that lets you do those things are down, it doesn’t change the need, just when you can access your need?
Sure you can go somewhere else, but given the expanse of the system used, is that really that likely?
Yeah, I’m waiting for the massive windfall profits that follow this “loss.” I can’t see many people just deciding not to buy a car.
Sounds like not much has changed. To quote Gordon Baxter from the November 1981 issue of Car and Driver:
What about Dodge? you ask. Well, it was a different time back then. Way before the big-rig pickup look was even imagined. (Or was it?)
Not being from Texas myself, I have to wonder is the Tundra it’s darling or is it still a regional hit around the places it’s build and maybe Houston and Austin?
Dodge/Ram seems to have a Stellantis problem. They are hellbent on pushing Ram upscale against GMC. They never looked back and saw that Dodge was always one of the hardcore down and dirty trucks that praised it with “Job Rated” badging, “Prospector” packages”, “Farmer” paint options, and even entire brands such as Fargo. Ignoring this market limits the brand to the lifestyle market that Toyota lives in with the Tundra and does Stellantis really want to fall to those sales numbers? If they don;t pay attention, they will.
Regarding Ram… I wonder how much of their sales decline has to do with them NOT dropping prices as inventory piled up. Of all the automakers, FCA/Stellantis seems to be holding onto the “pandemic pricing will last forever” fantasy the most.
Earlier this year, they had over 60,000 Ram 1500 units in stock. But most of their other models had massive inventory as well:
https://caredge.com/guides/jeep-inventory-surplus-2024
Basically Stellantis and its dealers need to get their vehicle pricing back down to reality. And they need to accept that pandemic pricing is over and isn’t coming back.
Until they do that, fuck ’em. They can hang onto their excessive amount of inventory and the carrying costs associated with that.
Regarding Stellantis’ and their suppliers:
“ The company has argued that its suppliers are bound by contract terms even if the economics have become unfavorable.”
This correct. It’s classic contract law. I would say that going forward, suppliers need to put in provisions in their contracts to account for unexpected cost inflation.
“Lawyers representing the suppliers have argued that the supply agreements are not enforceable requirement contracts.”
Sounds like suppliers have a serious bout of wishful thinking. The only way I know of that they can legally get out of a bad contract without getting sued is if they enter bankruptcy/creditor protection. As I understand it, in that situation in the USA (and probably Canada), a judge can cancel contracts or nullify parts of contracts and other obligations.
“Can Ram hold off the Tundra or will Tundra replace the Ram 1500? “
Only if Stellantis gets real with their pricing and starts offering massive discounts on their MSRPs that got seriously over-inflated to fantasy levels during the pandemic.
Ever been to Home Depot in your track car? Me neither, that’s why I bought a used truck.
I bring many of my HD runs home on a bicycle. The rest in a car based microvan including lumber, appliances and mulch. If I really needed a truck they’re available to rent right there.
When I didn’t own a truck I would rent a truck or van from Home Depot if I needed to bring home a mattress or a washing machine, large stuff like that. For 25 bucks you get the van for something like 75 minutes, which is just about right for a quick run.
Our Home Depot car used to be an ’89 Volvo 740 turbo wagon with the five-speed. Now it’s an ’05 Odyssey EX-L. Unless your day job involves going to Home Depot, an old beater is the way to go.
Amen. My pickup cost $1500 bucks, costs nothing to insure and can haul just about anything I’d ever want. I only put about 2000 miles on it a year, but given it’s age and my desire to keep a nice gmt400 preserved, I’m cool with it.
My favorite big truck is the one I rented from Home Depot to get a bunch of rock and mulch home over the weekend. It did exactly what I needed it for and I only had to drive it for an hour!
Maybe it’s because a pickup truck is so far removed from what I want in a vehicle, but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand the truck market. That new Tundra looks terrible to me, but only marginally worse than it’s GM counterparts. There’s just a lot going on there. They remind me of some toys I had when I was a kid. I’m surprised they don’t have fake guns jutting out somewhere.
That’s on the HiLux model
What ding-dong used a blue line for Silverado and a yellow line for the F-Series??
This! Everyone knows it’s Blue for Ford, Yellow for Chevy, Red for GMC, Black for Ram, and Green for Toyota
I can understand a brief pullback for the new model, but what happened in late 22 that caused their market share to crater? That’s a crazy drop.
My guess is artificially inflating MSRPs and dealer markups that made buying a Ram 1500 a commitment similar to purchasing a house in rural Ohio.
Perhaps chip shortages and allocating resources to the even more profitable Wagoneer and GW that released around that time?
Selling the previous generation as new was a great deal in the truck market years ago. Once 2022 hit and markups went crazy, you’d be insane to spend so much on an older model versus something actually new.
As much as I hate owning and driving a truck, I have been happy with my 2021 RAM 1500. Hopefully the new engine options, 2025 updates, and PHEV and EV options help them gain market-share back. My truck is used for towing our camper and is my daily in the winter, and it’s a very comfortable place to tow with confidence, but there haven’t been many major changes or upgrades since 2019 while everyone else as released new models. I do still feel the RAM has a very nice interior with great ergonomics and a comfortable ride, but it’s still not very different from the 2019 model. The air suspension really makes it comfortable for towing. I passed 5000 miles of towing time on the truck last weekend, of around 30,000 miles on the truck. I’ll be adding another 400 miles of towing next weekend.
So why do you hate it? It sounds like a great and practical vehicle for you?
It’s huge and not fun to drive. I like small cars. I mostly drive the MGB or now the Miata in the summer.
Thank you for your honest answer. You like small cars. A full sized pickup is definitely not a small car. Cheers.
The thing that’s hurting Ram the most, in my opinion, is the lack of lineup depth. They just don’t have anything else to get people into their ecosystem. Ford, Toyota, and Chevy/GMC all have smaller trucks, a variety of SUVs and crossovers, and (at least for Toyota) cars to get people in the door.
So given that the “other” truck was and is almost universally driven by the douchiest of dirtbags, should I be keeping an eye out for Tundra drivers now? Speaking from experience of nearly getting run off the road in the right lane yesterday by a Ram driver.
Did he have a an “If you can’t Dodge it, Ram it!” bumper sticker?
More likely than not he didn’t even have a license plate. That seems to be the thing to do in Colorado these days. SMH.
What’s your favorite big truck?
Whichever one is smallest.
For real. Apparently not many people have parking concerns with their trucks, whether it’s out in the field or at home.
I get it, trucks often have to do everything now as opposed to just being for “truck things”, but do they almost all have to be large? It’s not surprising that Mavericks sold so well.
Parking lines are there to be crossed. Kind of like airline seat armrests.
Ugh, absolutely no to either of those haha.
Lines may be fine to cross, but not everyone can extend their garage/carport/whatever.
Extend? Many people can’t even be bothered to clean out their overstuffed garage.
Nah, it’s much easier to park the Canyonero across the street in front of the neighbor’s house even if the ball hitch does encroach on their driveway a bit.
Out of the full size trucks, the Ram is definitely the wieldiest. It has the lowest beltline and hood of all the current trucks, and visibility is by far the best.
With an upcoming new model, I would imagine that people are holding out for it. That usually happens in these conditions, doesn’t it? Those who want a new one wait to get the new new one, and those who want the outgoing model wait for the discounts that hit when the new one comes out.
I imagine that folks in the market for $40-90k trucks can afford to wait a few months for a new model or a better deal.
It’s possible that the next generation will see a small dip in sales due to a new, unproven engine, but the jury is still out on that.
I have never bought a new vehicle, but just for giggles I tried to build a truck on RAM’s website. You can no longer get a 1500 with leather in the quad cab body. I drive a 2016 in that configuration now and really enjoy the truck. I would like a Laramie quad cab, I’ll take a chance on one of those new motors.
Yeah, I hate the way they’ve tied together all of the luxury features. I also drive a quad cab Laramie and have been really happy with it for the most part, but there’s a high probability my next truck (if it’s a Ram at all) will be lower spec just because I refuse to pay for a bunch of crap I don’t want just to get ventilated leather seats (which is a killer feature for me, but not if it bumps the price $20k because of all the bundling).
Ya, ventilated seats are a game changer! i would hate to not have them, but holy crap with the prices. My 2016 has been mostly bulletproof, I did install new manifolds with upgraded hardware and I have had an odd sensor or two go. I keep up on mintenance and it has been very reliable.
I will, once again on this site, provide my anecdotal experience with my local Stellantis dealers:
Our local dealer has a proper fleet of Ram 1500s sitting on the lot. Among many other vehicles that may or may not be competitive, and may or may not have been redesigned in the last ten years.
What’s the cheapest Ram 1500 that they have available after so-called incentives?
52k!
Yes that’s right, 52k. My local dealers continue to either be bending over their customers like it’s 2022 still, or simply would rather not sell any cars. Down the street the Chevy dealer has plenty of Silverados listed at 45k. People don’t assume that they can negotiate 10k off a vehicle anymore (if they could) and at least I certainly would avoid anyone starting the negotiation at an eyewatering 52k.
I just picked a local Chrysler dealer and they have 2025 Laramies for $12-13k off on the website. Says straight “dealer discount”, not a mishmash of rebates only .03% of the population would quality for.
Oh I’m sure at least some of these dealers have come to their senses. Not so in my neck of the woods. Take my anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt, my local couple of Stellantis dealers are the very very worst kind of dealer around here. They can’t all be that bad. I’d rather go to the Kia dealer.
I also get the impression that Toyota is getting some conquest sales for truly playing the “if you can’t beat them, join them” card with this design. The new Tundra is MASSIVE. A gigantic brick of truck that takes the macho-level to the point where I almost find it campy. The bros seem to be very ok with this.
Bad management at the dealership.
So, in my area the Tundra has always been a strong seller, but I don’t see as many of the new ones as the older ones. I also don’t see as many of the new Rams either. What I do see is more new Silverados/Sierras and F-series than either the Rams or the Tundras by several orders of magnitude. I’m not sure if that is supply chain related or just buyer preference, but the Tundra and Ram are seemingly becoming also-rans in a historically Toyota-strong area.
Ram would have been wise to keep the Hemi in the new truck with the new engine *like everyone else but Toyota*. Unless they no longer want to sell in the numbers of Ford/GM
Setting aside the fact that separating Ram from Dodge was a dumb idea that’s still not too late to fix, not giving Ram’s pickup line a proper model name once it did separate was another big mistake. Ford F-Series might not be the most brilliantly creative name, but it’s a hell of a lot better than Ram PU
They could’ve pulled a long-practiced move of christening an entire model line with an old trim designation. Ram Laramie, anyone?
My God, that would have been perfect. WTF didn’t they do that?
Good idea, but I think Big Horn would be the best fit.
“Ram Laramie”
RAM LaRAMie… just like the Ferrari LaFerrari
Yeah they could have called it the RAM LaRam…
And then they could have the Laramie version called the RAM LaRam LaRamie.
And that totally wouldn’t be stupid at all. If it’s good enough for Ferrari…
In Musk/Tesla news, he’s announced he’ll spend $45 million a month getting the Republican presidential candidate elected.
This is insane to me. The Republicans are actively hostile to EV’s and clean energy. Tesla makes its money from electric cars and clean energy. They even have gone so far as to suggest a credit for ICE vehicle sales! I personally don’t buy the “be the most sycophantic supporter, get into a position of power and then rip off the mask” theory.
Why is this getting mentioned? Cars are regulated things and the politicians make the laws that turn into regulations. I’m not saying who to vote for, but get out and vote for the politicians whose attitudes about cars you like best.
Politicians’ attitudes about cars are pretty far down on my list of priorities when I vote these days. I really do wish it could be closer to the top, but there are too many more important issues (in my opinion).
Trying to keep things related to cars, lol.
In many people’s minds, attitudes towards car regulation are the same attitudes towards environmental regulation, which is actually an important issue in most people’s opinion (whether they are pro or con, which seems bizarre to have to write).
Any politician who came out in favor of reciprocity for UNECE safety regulations would get my vote
Minor correction: Tesla gets its revenue from EVs and clean energy, but that is not how they make money. As Elon has stated they are really a software company, and they make their money from selling stock, with a ridiculously optimistic long term term outlook. The fact the next product is a “robo taxi” should tell you they aren’t interested in selling cars, and are creating software and “innovating”. The Model 3 was supposed to function as a robo taxi, but it doesn’t. The fact that they aren’t trying to bring out a new model that could land in a year or two, and they are working on a “robo taxi” that won’t have software anywhere near functional on level 4 autonomy until 20 years from now should tell you everything about how they plan to make money.
Ahh, thanks for the correction!
So its not about making cars so much as getting laissez faire FSD regulations?
Got to deregulate so pedestrians can be crash test dummies.
An easily-overlooked plank on the Republican platform this year is to limit regulations on AI. I wonder who might have suggested that particular plank in exchange for an endorsement?
Hmm…..
Curious.
Skynet@CyberdyneSystems
Playing both ends toward the middle. Team blue is already shoveling subsidy money down his throat and falling all over themselves to find a bigger shovel. This is a hedge.
That’s another plausible explanation.
It seemed like a big chunk of Ram pickup inventory has favored the 3.6 V6 the last few months. Even if you’re not a V8 diehard, there’s a certain mindset that it’s the base engine and it’s in so many trims, it can go for a lot of coin especially when you factor in the reduced incentives of late. GM and Ford have more powertrain variety period; in the Tundra, the 3.4TT in its lowest tune seems to split the difference between the Ram’s 3.6 V6 and the Hemi, and that’s only in the base SR.
I think you and I are the only ones who remember Keen Eddie. I don’t even think Sienna Miller remembers Keen Eddie.
And then there were three. Loved that show! So undeservedly underrated. I blame FOX for marketing the show as a stereotypical fish-out-of-water American unable to adjust to the British way of life, but it was so much more clever than that.
Dammit that was a good show. Now I need to look and see if it’s streaming somewhere.
If I’m looking at a full-size pickup, I’m comparing features, capability, and, most importantly, price. But there’s a pretty significant portion of new pickup buyers who aren’t going to be price-conscious (which is fair, given you’re already spending a lot and may as well spend a bit more to get what you want). I suspect the new RAM will claw back some of the lost sales because it looks like it’s nice and has useful features, but people love Toyota, so this could be a long-term shift.
I just sold my Silverado, though, and won’t be replacing it with another full-size pickup. I just don’t need one (though I was already missing it when I went to float the river with folks). When/if the right smaller pickup crosses my path, I’ll be really tempted.
Full Sized pickup owners a very brand loyal and will cross shop only if the company really screwed the pooch (like taking out the dipsticks for the engine oil and transmission fluid; or throwing in engines that didn’t get the metal shavings cleaned out from the milling before being thrown together.)
With the illusion of invulnerability destroyed by Toyota’s engine recall, I think RAM might be ok. (Can’t rule out anything with Stellantis in charge.)
I love a straight 6 (got one in my F250) so I would consider the new Ram truck… about 15 years from now