Fifteen years ago, naturally aspirated V8 sports sedans ruled the earth. From the enormous 6.2-liter V8 in the C63 AMG to the four-liter screamer in the BMW M3 to the 4.2-liter lump in the Audi RS4, the titans of the underground car park paired big displacement with high revs for devastating results. Fifteen years later, every compact sports sedan has gone downsized and turbocharged. Well, everything except one car. This is the Lexus IS 500 F Sport Performance, and it’s the last naturally aspirated V8 sports sedan left on the market. What a title.
First, a disclaimer: This IS isn’t a full F car like an RC F. It doesn’t have all the heat exchangers for extended track work, nor a tricky torque-vectoring differential (a Torsen sits out back instead), but it’s still a performance sedan in old-school tradition — enormous V8 up front, drive to the back, job done. So, is this a formula we’ll all be missing in the future, as some cars with boosted sixes are quicker? Needless to say, I borrowed one to find out.
[Full disclosure: Lexus Canada let me borrow this IS 500 F Sport Performance for a week so long as I kept the shiny side up, returned it with a full tank of premium fuel and reviewed it.]
A Different Shade Of Blue
On first glance, you quickly get the sense that the IS 500 F Sport Performance is Patrick Bateman wearing Bridgestones — it’s an axe murderer, but nobody believes it. Aside from some badging and an extra pair of exhaust tips, it seems identical to an IS 350 F Sport on a casual glance, which means it’s just a rakish compact sports sedan working with surprisingly old bones. If you look closely, you can find pieces of the 2014 Lexus IS in here, but the styling team’s given it Ozempic and shrunk its sheetmetal around its bones. It’s a package that works, just like how it works on every other IS.
However, look closely, and you’ll find that the entire nose of the car is a little bit longer than on an IS 350 just to shoehorn that five-liter V8 into a properly compact car. Subtle, but aside from the megawatt paint job, that’s the MO of this car. While the F badge, even in this moderate Performance trim, holds cachet amid JDM fans, but it’s not a badge regular people are craving. All the speed, all the violence, all the theatre of this car, it only exists for you. How wonderfully selfish.
Alright, maybe it’s not exclusively selfish, because this Blue Vector paint is bright enough to cause a sensation. Of all the blues ever sprayed on cars, this one has a plausible shot at the title of the most blue. Its brightness is assaulting in the shade, and in the sun, all the pearl pops and makes this sedan look like it’s bathed in blue Gatorade. It’s sensational, to the point where you almost expect someone at Porsche Exclusive to be fuming that they didn’t come up with this color first. We’re talking about a color so good, I’d spray random things with it, like patio furniture and desk lamps. Hey Lexus? I have a merchandising idea.
Step Inside
While the exterior styling might look cutting-edge, the cabin comes off a bit last-generation (the IS dates back to 2014, remember), but not in a bad way. Sure, it might not feature the most sophisticated array of screens, but a touchscreen is a solid workaround for the old Lexus trackpad, and you get physical buttons for almost everything. Buttons for your heated and ventilated seats, buttons for pausing audio, a scroll wheel to the left of the steering wheel to turn off fake engine sounds. There’s even a CD player, how’s that for a throwback? Oh, and because there’s still a lot of last-generation stuff in here, the IS 500 F Sport Performance gets a physical bezel over its digital cluster that moves with the tachometer face as a nod to the LFA. Wicked.
Besides, the real highlight of the interior is what you interact with the most. The Lexus IS 500 F Sport Performance has, without hyperbole, some of the best seats I’ve ever experienced in a car. They’re pillow-soft yet incredibly supportive, well-bolstered yet not too tight. We’re talking about all-day thrones that won’t make you want to get out and stretch before you run through a whole tank of fuel.
Oh, and then there’s the 1,800-watt, 17-speaker Mark Levinson sound system. While it’s a Harman International system like pretty much every branded car stereo on the market, there’s something profound about 1.8 kilowatts of advertised power in a car the size of a Civic. While the system’s meek at lower volumes, crank that knob and this suite of audio equipment will beam you into another dimension with a balanced sound signature, deep-hitting bass, crisp treble, and clarity you wouldn’t believe comes standard in a compact luxury sedan. For context, I put on some live Pavarotti, and I could hear the string musicians adjusting their bows on a rest. You sure as hell aren’t getting that in a 3 Series.
Leap Of Desire
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter, the 2UR-GSE five-liter naturally-aspirated quad-cam V8. Pumping out a serious 472 horsepower at 7,100 rpm and 395 lb.-ft. at 4,800 rpm, it wants to be revved, as evidenced by a flap in the airbox that opens under all throttle conditions at 3,600 rpm, yet still produces solid cruising torque way down low. Slot the antiquated gear selector into drive, and you can lope around town barely ever cracking 2,000 rpm, all scored by a gorgeous, smoking-lounge-singer burbling backbeat.
However, rotate the giant silver knob in the center console clockwise twice to enter Sport S + mode and slide the gear lever into manumatic mode, and it’s like you unleashed The Hulk. Suddenly, you have a raucous, visceral rush of induction noise all the way to a 7,300 rpm redline, before you pull the well-damped, long-travel right paddle and the eight-speed automatic gearbox bangs off an upshift with rabid ferocity. While modern performance cars may have us jaded on how quick zero-to-60 mph in 4.4 seconds is, the V8 IS will never let you forget that you’re moving fucking quickly for a highly evolved ape strapped into machinery. It’s a shot of adrenaline directly into your aorta, the sort that reminds you exactly what it means to be human.
Granted, even if the engine is a superhero, the transmission has its off moments. When you have a chance to be properly on it, like on a highway transfer ramp, manual mode downshifts are sharp and quick enough to almost make you wonder if anyone needs a ZF 8HP. However, from 3,000 rpm down, expect arrhythmic stutter-step paddle-shift downshifts. Under those circumstances, this gearbox feels 15 years old, and while that should kill the entire appeal of the car, it really doesn’t.
Even if the gearbox is being stupid, you can still be stupider. Unsurprisingly, the stock 265-section Bridgestone Potenza S001 rear tires really aren’t enough for this car. Sure, you can always dole out throttle position in the miserly manner of pizza at public school, but add some enthusiasm, and stability control shuts down the party. Kill that (you must be fully stopped to do so), prepare to party, and the results are predictably juvenile.
However, dial things back a notch, and you start to notice that this IS isn’t just a parlor trick. The brakes are decidedly un-Lexus-like, in that the pedal has urgency, and the pads themselves offer serious bite. The springs and dampers actually breathe with the road, providing a remarkably insulated ride in combination with solid body control. Even over some truly apocalyptic tarmac, it’s still supremely comfortable. If the rear seat weren’t so tight, you could perform open-heart surgery back there, no sweat. With the roll and pitch tuned into the chassis, you can pick up on subtle weight shifts on the street, all while being delightfully surprised by the steering.
Sure, other performance sedans may have faster and weightier helms, but the feedback in the steering of the Lexus IS 500 F Sport Performance is like a dialogue with the past, alerting you to camber changes and cracks in the tarmac alike. It’ll proudly tell you when the front’s about to wash wide or when you’re about to be sideways before any loss of grip actually happens, a rarity in the segment today. Oh, and speaking of the segment today, it’s astonishing how the 3,891-pound curb weight of this V8 bruiser exists within spitting distance of a BMW M340i’s curb weight. By modern standards, it’s lighter than you might expect.
The result is a package that’s utterly intuitive when you’re looking to have sensible fun, and a bit like operating a barbecue when you want to be silly — you decide exactly how much heat and smoke you want, and everything else is irrelevant. Oh, and because it’s a Lexus, it’ll let you fan the flames all day if you like. Keep in mind, this engine and gearbox date back to 2008 with a rock-solid reliability track record.
Okay, so other than the occasionally recalcitrant gearbox, are there any downsides? Well, the IS 500 F Sport Performance will make you quite aware of the difference between fuel economy and fuel consumption. Although it’s officially rated at 20 mpg combined, I managed 14.8, and I was taking it easy most of the time. Otherwise, this is an all-time gentleman’s hoon machine, an unassuming small sedan waging war with its rear tires while running a stream-of-consciousness monologue of exactly what its chassis is doing.
Reach Out And Touch Faith
On paper, the 2024 Lexus IS 500 F Sport Performance comes across as a curiosity rather than an actual contender. Aside from that thumping 472-horsepower V8, the chassis dates back to the 2014 model year, the gearbox is directly from 2008, the interior’s a bit last-gen, the rear seat is tiny, and all the German luxury brands offer quicker sports sedans. However, as I’ve said countless times, cars aren’t driven on paper. In the real world, with pockmarked roads and very real laws of physics, I’d take this Lexus over a BMW M340i, Mercedes-AMG C 43, or Audi S4. Hell, I’d even take it over an Audi RS5 or a BMW M3.
Sure, those cars may be quicker on paper, they may feature newer interior tech, and they may be more efficient, but they aren’t overflowing with larger-than-life character, utterly intuitive to use, or both supremely comfortable and properly engaging at the same time. The IS 500 is here to teach you that your heart should always come first, because it wants you to feel something all the time. It’s a belly laugh of a car even at low speeds, a properly riotous time that’s emotional enough to make you wonder if we’ve lost what makes performance cars great in an endless pursuit of numbers.
Speaking of numbers, let’s talk pricing. In America, this V8 Lexus starts at $60,520 including freight, escalating to $65,020 for the Premium trim with the outstanding Mark Levinson sound system, upgraded LED headlights, 10.3-inch touchscreen navigation system, power rear sunshade, and 360-degree camera system. Admittedly, that’s more than a BMW M340i, which stickers for $62,820 when equipped comparably to the IS 500 F Sport Performance Premium, but it’s $3,700 less than what a comparably equipped Mercedes-AMG C 43 stickers for, and that Benz has half as many cylinders as the Lexus.
In Canada, the IS 500 F Sport Performance only comes with all the options normally found on the U.S. Premium trim, but adding the special Blue Vector paint and BBS wheels takes pricing up by $2,700 Canadian to $80,955 worth of Loonies. That’s more than $12,000 cheaper than a comparably equipped Mercedes-AMG C 43, which makes the Lexus a better deal in the Great White North.
By taking a weapons-grade old-school naturally aspirated V8 and fitting it in its smallest sedan, Lexus has built something magical. If there’s one way to firmly dispel allegations of a brand being a bit clinical, it’s by building a car like this long after competitors have moved on to more homogenous, less evocative formulas. It might not be the fastest thing in the segment, but it’s right up there with the most fun, and that’s what really matters.
(Photo credits: Thomas Hundal)
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I just be down at the Lexus dealer demanding they order one of these in this color so I can stair at it all day.
Two years ago Lexus Canada gave Throttle House a grey primer one to review. You can bet that James is going to review the car again just to get his hands on that “Blue Vector” example.
He does love blue.
Put this in an Avalon-sized vehicle. Then we can talk. No back seats means it can’t be a family roadster between hoonin’
You mean the GS? I miss that platform.
Yeah, the Lexus version.
The Lexus version of the Avalon is the ES, which is FWD. The GS was a RWD sedan competing with the BMW 5’er and MB E Class. It was available as an F with the V8 for a while.
Well, to be fair, they said Avalon-sized…which, really, only the LS would sate. Even the GS doesn’t approach the backseat space of the Avalon and ES.
But, yes, the GS and IS are adaptations of the same thing.
And then you have the RC, which is a frankensteined combination of the IS front section, IS C mid-section (remember that one) and GS rear section. It’s really not that great of a sports car platform, which is one reason that Toyota turned to BMW for the Supra.
v8 GS were great
With a torque vectoring dif. Favorite test drive ever.
And … it’s not a stick. Next!
I hate to be an old man shaking sticks at clouds, but I agree. Even if the stick cost $5000 some people would option it and it would be profitable
The problem with the IS500 and the entire IS lineup is simply the size. The backseats are extremely tiny and although I don’t have my car filled up more than 5% of the time, it ruins the point of having a sedan. For the money you’re better off getting a RCF or Supra instead or even a last gen C63.
The RCF is tempting. Higher mileage ones can be had in the 30s, even nicer recent examples dip into the 50s. They also are full F models with all the hardware upgrades. You can take an RCF to the track. You cannot take an IS500 to the track.
I have an old IS300 (that I love) I test drove an IS500 a couple months ago. I was kind of surprised they didn’t figure out how to grow the insides a few inches. If anything the new IS feels smaller than the old one (I think the console is bigger, making front accomodations seem a little tighter).
Still it will haul two in great comfort and an occasional four works ok as long as you don’t have 6 scooters fore and aft ( that can work, but back seat guys knees will be right on the front seat). Anyway, it is certainly more than a cramped 2 + 2 seating arrangement.
The best thing about these cars is you can own them a long time and they just keep going, problem and worry free, they are also comfortable and fun to drive, a new old fashioned gentleman’s express.
How would you compare it to the CT4 V Blackwing?
Yes, this, my heart is cut not to see it mentioned among peers when I’ve been lusting after one for a year
I feel like I’d need to back-to-back them to draw a firm conclusion, but I can say that while the Blackwing has the engagement of a manual transmission and a firmer brake pedal than the Lexus, the IS 500 is more memorable in everyday driving.
Other sports sedans aren’t missing the point, they’re just getting to the point differently. This car is great at being what it is, but it is not always “the answer” just because it’s RWD and has an NA V8. Despite what automotive journalism would have you believe, that may not be the holy grail of drivetrains depending on where you live, your driving style, your climate and myriad other considerations, namely your own personal preferences.
This. I prefer my Civic to the V6 Charger rental I’m driving while insurance does its thing. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great car and I’m not complaining, but it’s not really for me. With a stiffer sway bar I can get the rear end to slide out and handle more like a RWD car if I feel like hooning it that day, and FWD has been, to me, far less annoying to deal with in snow. There’s something to be said for a naturally aspirated V8 and all the wonderful sounds it makes, but I can’t drive without music so that gets lost more often than not.
I have driven a V8 Mustang, a couple trucks and SUVs, some FWD sedans/hatchbacks, this Charger, and I always find myself gravitating back to a FWD hatchback with an I4 as the most enjoyable thing to drive. Preferably with a manualmatic. I miss driving a true manual but bad knees and city traffic make even an automatic miserable some days.
I love these, but boy are they pricey. My local dealer has a white one with that sweet, sweet red interior, but they’re asking almost $73k for it. While it has a lot of character and soul, which is a bit ironic for a Lexus (which I say as a Lexus owner), the car needs to be $10k less to be at all competitive with the others in the field. Granted, it has reliability leaps and bounds better than most of its rivals, but I’m not sure how many folks who buy something like this keep them long-term?
Agreed. The IS500 is supposed to compete with the S Audis, M Lite BMWs, etc. but once they hit lots they’re nearly as expensive as an M3. Are V8s cool as hell? You bet. Is it worth making a massive performance sacrifice to have one over a full fat performance model from a competitor?
I’m not so sure. The fact that these are slightly more expensive than CT4V BWs is a tough pill to swallow as well. Those are much more engaging, performance oriented cars. If you’re never doing anything but cruising then I see the point of an IS500 but if I’m spending $70,000 on a sports sedan I’m taking it to the track and it needs to be able to run with the big dogs.
Agreed, and this is the same logic that makes me the $15k jump from an IS350 F-Sport to the IS500 a tough pill to swallow. The IS500 is definitely faster and more brutal than the IS350, but the IS350 does most of what the IS500 does for a lower price (and less exciting exhaust note). Were the IS500 only $5-7k more, it would almost make no sense to get the V6, but as you note, that $15k jump puts the IS in some strong competition with a lot more capability.
With all that said, I have daydreams of the IS500 depreciating enough that I can reasonably afford one when my kids start going off to college over the next ten years and I can justify a fun sedan with mediocre rear seat space.
What a magnificent receipe and a shame it is disappearing.
It reminds me of my old M140i: small car, big engine, utterly discreet.
If it was available on this side of the pond I would consider it.
I love these, but I’d really like them to update the body a little bit. We’ve been getting some variation of the same IS for 10 years now.
It’s not at all lost on me the irony that Lexus (the brand that 10-15 years ago was synonymous with dull, conservative luxury) is now the last man standing when it comes to Naturally Aspirated V8 powered sedans. What times we live in.
It reminds me of how the GT-R was derided when it came out for being such a digital car that did all the work for you. Then 1-2 years ago people started saying how it felt so analog compared to its competition due to having changed very little over the past 15 years (it still used hydraulically boosted power steering for example).
Funny how not updating a car very much (in certain ways) for 15 years has a way of making people nostalgic for different times.
Like Audi with the RS5. The dull unspiring of the 3 german premium brands sticking the longest with the high revving normally aspirated V8. So out of character.
The current generation of RS5 uses a twin turbo V6 that’s shared with the Macan and many others. The RS5 you’re referring to went out of production in 2016/2017 depending on market.
Ah yes indeed, but they still insisted with the N/A V8 for far longer than BMW or Daimler did.
Awesome car, kudos to Lexus for sticking with a NA V8, and another opportunity for me to shit on GM for leaving their best engine out of the CT4 BW and using an anonymous turbo 6 instead like everyone else.
I’m not sure that I’d call that turbo 6 anonymous, it’s pretty damn rowdy. But I’d still take an LT1 over it. That being said I’d have a very hard time picking an IS500 over a Blackwing…but there isn’t really a wrong answer in that situation.
Are they the same price?
The Blackwings undercut the IS500 slightly, and in the real world they’re significantly cheaper. You can find them in the 50s (in American freedom units) all day. IS500s tend to be 65-75 and they don’t depreciate. The IS500 undoubtedly has a better interior and is more reliable, but a CT4V BW will absolutely wipe the floor with it in any meaningful performance application.
Incredible. You are really spoiled for choice on this side of the pond…
The most we can have are the three Germans and that is pretty much it…
And the CT4-V Blackwing is just as cramped in the rear as the IS 500 is. Well, the one I sat in was. At 5’10” on a good day, I could not sit behind myself in the CT4-V Blackwing without my head touching the ceiling. So that evens the playing field a bit.
I wish they had brought the coupe forward into the CT4 era. It was effortlessly handsome.
Would you rather get one of these, or about 5 B8 Audi S5?
This.
I’d need seven S5’s to have a working car each day.
COTD.
Great comment. As you all know I’m the opposite of a VAG apologist…but that turbo V6 was co developed with Porsche and actually holds up pretty damn well. IMHO it’s a better engine than it gets credit for because the B58 is so goddamn good. My mom has an SQ5 and while the car surrounding it is pretty flavorless the actual powertrain is pretty sweet.
“For context, I put on some live Pavarotti, and I could hear the string musicians adjusting their bows on a rest.”
Uh, Dad? When did you start moonlighting as an auto journalist?
(You and my dad have classy taste in music)
That’s Richard Petty blue. Put a 43 on the side, or at least on a vanity plate.
It’s close, but it looks like it’s a little too light and a little too metallic. It’s a nice color though
I absolutely love these. I think they’re gorgeous but subtle. They have an absolute gem of a V8 and correct wheel drive. They’ll last until the heat death of the universe. They’re pretty close to the platonic ideal of a sports sedan.
…but they are really goddamn expensive for what they are. Most of them are equipped between $65-75,000 before dealerships get a hold of them. Many have markups. They also do not depreciate a cent. I recently saw one with 50,000 miles on it listed for $55,000, and they’ll probably get it.
It becomes even less palatable due to the competition. Is a V8 amazing and unique in this day and age? Yes, but the IS500 is not a great performer. They’re pretty much worse in every metric than all of their competitors, and once you’re talking $65,000+ you have to REALLY want a Lexus specifically, because that’s Blackwing, M2, C8, RS3, full AMG, etc. money.
And what these are supposed to compete with undercut them. You can get an M340i, S4/5, AMG lite, etc. for less money brand new and way less money used. There’s also the Integra Type S if you simply must have JDM. It’s not quite as quick in a straight line and doesn’t have a V8 or RWD…but it has an incredible manual transmission and track capability.
And while it may not make sense to a lot of folks to cross shop them, you can get pretty much whatever 392 Charger you want for much less…and they offer V8 goodness with a way better transmission and lots of SRT goodies that will make them better performers. Also, the Chrysler 300C is now available for under MSRP because no one wants them. They’re Scat Pack Challengers with none of the baggage.
If the IS500 started in the low to mid 50s or actually depreciated I’d have one in my driveway. But they’re overpriced and coated in a layer of unobtanium on top of it. You really have to ask yourself how important that 5 liter V8 is to you, because at the end of the day it’s really the only thing that makes this car enticing and you’re paying out the ass for the privilege.
You also almost have to mod these as well. The stock exhaust is lousy, the brakes aren’t very good, and the suspension is set up primarily for comfort. They’re cruisers to the core. You can turn them into somewhat rowdy machines with some work but an ISF they are certainly not.
They don’t depreciate because, unlike the competition, they don’t turn into maintenance nightmares after the warranty is up. You’re paying for performance + reliability. Good, fast, cheap – you only can pick two.
Yep. 220,000 mile GS460 here. Slightly leaky water pump I need to replace, and got new shocks. Otherwise nothing. Still commute 70 miles a day and its never not started.
I just cannot justify the sustainability hit of the mpg. This is about the mileage we got in my Mom’s 1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with the 350 cubic inch engine in it (replaced with an 1985 with similar mileage – once the kids were out of the house she shifted to sports sedans). The CT4-V Blackwing should get better gas mileage, the 340i will get much better gas mileage.
The comparison set here is really tough with these and other great competitors. I also am not a fan of the Lexus interiors – I would prefer to be in the BMW or Cadillac any day of the week – although if the seats are that good, maybe I should try this out.
The CT4/5 interior is…not great. I’ll take the exterior styling of those hands down over pretty much any Lexus, but I’ll take the Lexus interior. My sister has an IS350 and the interior is fine, but the seats are amazing.
I haven’t sat in one but the pictures are pretty bleak…you can make the interiors a little more interesting by checking option boxes but IMHO the CT4V BW is a car you buy in the basest spec possible. At $60,000 it’s an unbelievable amount of car. At $75,000 it can still compete on capability but the interior is so much worse than an M3 that it becomes a very hard sell.
I even think the BMW has a slight powertrain edge as well. The S58 is a sonorous, overbuilt beast of an engine that revs out to 7,000 and can hit 30 MPG highway if you hyper mile it. The GM turbo V6 is…cool, but it has much more humble roots and can’t match the smoothness of a Bavarian straight 6.
If only the M3 wasn’t so fucking ugly…
I don’t understand the enthusiast hate for forced induction motors. My car makes more HP than this, makes its torque figure look laughable, and still gets 28+mpg on the highway even with an aftermarket tune. Turbo lag is as close to non existent as you can get, if you couldn’t hear it you wouldn’t know it was there. An NA V8 and RWD is not the holy grail of sport sedan powertrains. It’s just another option in a sea of options that have their pluses and negatives. It’s just like David and his CT article. “There is only one right answer and everything else is shit” mentality.
I think both have their place, but I don’t necessarily agree with the masses that NA is always the answer. It just depends on how you’re going to be driving it. If you have wide open space to truly let the engine stretch its legs then I think a high revving NA engine is the answer.
But if you live in an urban area like I do? The low end torque from a turbo really comes in handy. I love being able to accelerate easily in traffic without having to wait for engine to get into the powerband. It also makes passing unbelievably easy. Even if I’m in eco mode the Kona N has enough torque down low to get me out of a jam.
Hybrid does much the same, electric motor torque instantly when you need it.
You bet!
One of my favorite things to see within the industry is people complaining everything is moving to turbochargers. These are also the same people who still worship the turbocharged cars like Supra/GTR specifically because they’re turbocharged.
The Blackwing is actually even less efficient. The M340i more or less gets 4 cylinder MPG, and even better now that it’s a mild hybrid. Praised be the B58.
I used to have one in an unassuming 3 door hatchback. It was capable of 35mpg (if you drove gently and slowly) and destroying pretty much anything on the road (if you buried your foot in the carpet).
same as the old tacos. great vehicle that last forever with old tech that gets shitty mileage. ironically the new turbo in those is failing
True. Also, Lexus doesn’t let you–or the dealer–put in orders. So you’re stuck a) waiting for your local dealer to hopefully get what you want or b) negotiating with an out-of-state dealer that has what you want. And, of the 89 new IS 500s available on AutoTrader, as of this writing, I found one that was actually in-stock and in a more interesting shade than white, black or gray…and perhaps three or four red ones that appeared to be in-transit.
Whereas Audi, BMW, Cadillac or Mercedes-Benz will take your order without complaint, and probably not charge more than MSRP.
My dad custom ordered his X5 50e this time last year. It was a totally seamless process, he got everything he wanted, it showed up earlier than expected, and if I recall correctly they even gave him a small discount off MSRP. He dealt with absolutely no bullshit and they were super kind and professional the entire time. They even scheduled him with a BMW genius to show him how all the tech and the PHEV systems work.
He’s a somewhat tech averse guy in his 60s and he has had 0 challenges with adjusting to the PHEV/modern car tech life. If I’m ever buying a new BMW I’m doing the exact same thing and cannot overstate how smooth the process was.
Unfortunately Lexus and Toyota have their stupid allocation system. You can never have exactly what you want, and if something in a particularly desirable spec shows up they’re likely going to either slap a markup on it or give the first pass at it to someone who has an in with the dealership. I’d started the process to get a GRC when they were first announced and I saw this firsthand.
Hell, my salesman was openly talking about how the owners and their friends get the first crack at every “special” model and usually buy it. Apparently any desirable Supra at that dealership was purchased by the wealthy owners and then mothballed or flipped. It’s such a terrible system and I fully believe it’s more or less an under the table deal between Toyota and their dealerships to give the dealers carte blanche to charge whatever they want.
And it doesn’t even apply to just enthusiast cars! My wife is going to need a new/bigger car soon and she is absolutely hellbent on it being a hybrid Highlander. I went out and test drove the new hybrid Santa Fe last weekend while my N was being serviced and absolutely loved it. I gave her a full report, pictures, and videos…and she said she only wants a Toyota or Honda because she never wants to worry about her car working ever.
Good fucking luck getting a hybrid Highlander in a desirable spec at MSRP. I’ve been poking around and they’re usually sold before they even hit lots…and the ones that do hit lots are usually sold with a 10% markup. We apparently may have to get on a list soon and wait as much as 18 months. For a goddamn family hauler.
I think Toyotas are great and their hybrid tech is the best in the game…but is it so good it’s worth this much trouble/the huge obsession in the minds of normies? I don’t know, man. I could go out and buy a Santa Fe hybrid in the exact spec we want tomorrow and pay $5-10,000 less than a comparable Highlander that might check some of our boxes. It’ll be in an actual color and have an interior that isn’t black or gray as well…
I can relate. Back in September 2021, I ordered a 2022 X5 xDrive45e. It was seamless, I got what I wanted, and–like your dad’s–it came early. It was at the dealership in early November. And I got some substantial discounts.
The M sedans and coupes would take longer, since they’re built overseas, but that still beats waiting for a dealer to maybe get an IS 500 or RC F in the spec you want, and then paying through the nose for it.
I’m jealous of your dad and the 50e. Compared to my 45e, the 50e has 25% more electric range, about 100 extra HP, and a much faster onboard charger, so you could realistically take advantage and get multiple charges throughout the day. My 45e is already great, so I can’t imagine how brilliant the 50e is.
As for your wife, my experience with Hyundai, Kia and Genesis is that they’re brilliant for about six years, and then begin behaving badly, often with little support from the manufacturer in terms of goodwill repairs. That’s when you wish you’d bought a Toyota. No doubt if your wife gets the Highlander Hybrid, it’ll last until the end of time. And that would have been an easy decision because you could have had one in short order…until Toyota learned during the pandemic to artificially constrain its production (especially on the hybrids) in order to keep resale values high and incentives low. I’m loathe to reward them for being so greedy.
I say go ahead and get the Santa Fe Hybrid if you’re only going to keep it for six years or less. Maybe even lease it.
so ignoring high resale = high residual for a lease, why would high resale help/matter to toyota? it worked for the taco, they sold 15 year old trucks. I don’t know how much sense that makes for non-trucks.
didn’t know it was that bad. doesn’t seem like a great biz model. if you can make more units that you can sell why aren’t you?
Artificial scarcity drives up demand and their dealerships can charge more
Uh, “enormous” v8 at 5.0L? In the last decade, the only naturally aspirated v8 I can think of that is smaller than this is the RS5’s 4.2. Maybe “enormous” isn’t the appropriate way to describe a V8 that could also objectively be described as “One of the smallest naturally aspirated V8’s produced in the last decade”
It is well understood that men get to create their own measurement scales.
it’s pretty clear that “enormous” means compared to the turbo engines of other cars in the segment, not compared to truck engines
Is it though? If someone says “an enormous v8” is it really so clear that the “enormous” does not apply to V8s, which are mentioned in the sentence, but rather applies to the engine’s size in relation to the universal population of all engines, despite not being mentioned in the sentence?
If I say “the grocery store has an enormous watermelon” are you telling me you would immediately and instinctively read that as “well obviously he means it’s enormous on the general scale of all fruits, but it might be pretty average, possibly even below average, in terms of watermelon sizes”
No, I would consider the context. Like the first part of the sentence before the hyphen you are ignoring to suit your pedantry: “but it’s still a performance sedan in old-school tradition”.
In this context, it’s just that all V-8s are enormous. To torture your analogy more, If you just needed a melon of any kind (you’re looking for something to blow up for the 4th) and you went to every grocery store in town. Most just had cantaloupes, but finally you found one selling watermelons. You might say you found a big ol watermelon.
I would argue that any small block is not an enormous V8. That said, a Ford 4.6 Modular has the same footprint as a 460 block due to the overhead cams. Ford Cleveland engines are physically huge, if not in displacement. Maybe enormous must be displacement over 351ci?
Yeah, I don’t claim to know where the line is drawn, other than it’s certainly somewhere north of the 5.0L/~300CI that got called “enormous” here haha
Most “small” blocks topped out at around 400cid. “Big” blocks started somewhere in the 390cid range. There were plenty of outliers as well. I wouldn’t consider a V8 under about 6.0L/400cid as large displacement.
Gotta say, the CD player mildly bothers me but way, way more vexing is the analog clock. Who keeps asking for these? Why aren’t they options instead of standard?
Why does the CD/DVD player (yes, it does both) bother you? The competition are charging you the same amount and taking it away…is there any reason not to have more legacy audio equipment for the same amount of money? As long as it has the new tech in addition to the old, which this does, I see zero issue with it.
Eh, if the disc player takes up any space on the dash that the screen could be extended downwards into so that it doesn’t have the “iPad stuck on the dash” look that lots of people dislike, then I’m happy to be rid of them.
Alternatively, if that space can be used for better gearshift designs, physical HVAC controls, more ergonomically-designed anything around it (thicker, more easily-gripped volume knob…use your imagination!), again, happy to lose the discs.
Plus (hot take, I’m sure…) I just don’t like physical media in general. I buy my music and have them on my phone, offline and backed up in multiple places.
The point of the “iPad-on-dash” look is for the infotainment screen to be in your line of sight. In other words, there’s no need to move it lower.
I mean, some vehicles still manage to keep it flat and (at the very least) have the dash “swoop” over it.
Even if that bottom portion is used, say, for the clock or something–you get to have a larger screen overall by utilizing it. For navigation, I see no downside.
Now that’s fair. Interestingly, I own a 2015 S 550 Coupe. On the Sedan, there’s an analog clock between the two sets of center vents. So there are two round vents, then the clock, then two more round vents. On the Coupe, the analog clock is omitted, so there are just four vents, and they might even be a tad larger.
If we keep criticizing properly designed interiors for being “old”, guess what we’re going to end up with? A bunch of Tesla screen-based nightmares. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
You get the 2025 X3’s interior, which is….a horrific disco ball of lighting and bland seas of grey.
But it’s not old compared to a tesla, it’s old compared to the rest of the Lexus lineup. Which is really saying something.
As I read it, the criticism was that it looks old because it’s not a wall of screens. Which, if I’m correct, is terrible criticism.
Maybe part of it is that I think the interior looks great. Hard buttons for important features, a hooded gauge cluster so you aren’t staring at a glare magnet the whole time you’re driving, it’s what a modern interior should look like but doesn’t because Tesla convinced everyone that excessive minimalism is “modern”.
Maybe that what Thomas meant, but I don’t think he’s someone that likes that kinda crap.
My point is that Lexus’ new design language hasn’t gone full on minimalism; the dash is still hooded, still has physical controls.
It’s just the designs on little features that feel old; The textures on the plastics, the iconography on the labels, the ergonomics that weren’t great from the beginning. The fact that the screen looks incredibly tacked on because the interior was designed for a recessed joystick controlled screen.
And functionality wise it’s old, still essentially using the infotainment software from 2017 so you don’t get wireless carplay/ Android Auto
The ES is getting old now too but IMO it looks much better inside https://i.imgur.com/JMfIAt8.jpeg
Those are some great photos, Thomas! You really captured how gorgeous that blue is.
Also, in my opinion, this is the most successful execution of the Lexus Predator face in the entire vehicle lineup! It actually looks good, in this case.
A special place exists in my heart for fancy Toyotas with large displacement NA engines.
Can I assume the rear seat legroom is still trash?
It doesn’t matter. I don’t care. I like that this car exists, which is something I never thought I’d say about a Lexus.
Yeah, it’s not the most capacious rear seat in the segment. I fit just fine behind my five-foot-ten self, but taller drivers will take a bite out of rear legroom, and you can pretty much forget about middle passenger comfort. I did fit an entire fixed-back bucket seat in the trunk, though, so that’s impressive.
Did you know that in Barcelona Lexus ISs are used as taxis?
https://timis.es/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Elite-Taxi-BCN-mueve-ficha-demanda-a-Competencia-ACCO-ante-el-TSJC.jpg
Yeah, I was going to comment that I like the IS, but what has always kept me from buying one is the inability for any person with legs to sit behind me – and I’m only a few inches taller than Mr. Hundal. I think if they redesigned the front seats they could claw back an inch or two, but I’m not sure it would be enough.
I want one of these in a bad way. I had a 2014 IS350 for 3 years that I greatly enjoyed (still miss it).
“While the system’s meek at lower volumes, crank that knob and this suite of audio equipment will beam you into another dimension with a balanced sound signature, deep-hitting bass, crisp treble, and clarity you wouldn’t believe comes standard in a compact luxury sedan”
I had the same experience in the GX 550. At quieter volume levels, its not at all impressive. Its not that its bad, but its just fine. When you turn it up, it comes alive in all the right ways. Very strange.
I can assure you that it will last longer than the competition, while holding resale value.