As I feel I have demonstrated, I’m fascinated by the automotive offerings on that massive online retailer of questionable crap, Alibaba. Recently, I noticed some strange things showing up in all of the targeted Alibaba ads that interrupt my rigorous and unforgiving pornography-seeking web browsing: ads featuring old air-cooled Volkswagen Beetles, but from Alibaba! I know they don’t sell vintage air-cooled VW Beetles on Alibaba, so what’s going on here?
Look, here’s one of those ads that just now popped up:
Also, The Algorithm seems to be suggesting I maybe want to start looking around for a kidney? Is it tracking all the cans of Diet Coke I drink? Does it see the blood in my pee? And what the hell is JFrog?
Back to the Beetle ad there. That looks like a ’66 Beetle on that lift there, and the caption just says “Drive System $4,200.” What’s going on here? Clicking that ad took me here:
Well, holy crap, look at that: it’ an EV conversion kit for a classic VW Beetle. It appears to be specifically designed to mount that 15 KW/20 horsepower electric motor right to the standard VW Type I transaxle?
Now, these sorts of kits to convert Beetles (or other air-cooled VWs) to electric power have been around for decades, the simple design of the Beetle lending itself to such conversions. Here’s two 1970s-era kits, the Corbin-Gentry Electric Bug Kit and the King Engineering Kit:
Both of these kits took exactly the same approach as that Alibaba one: bolt a motor right to the existing VW transaxle, effectively just replacing the original flat-four motor for the job of spinning a shaft. Oh, and then cramming heavy lead-acid batteries into every bit of available space.
There’s a lot of these new Alibaba kits; that first one I saw was $4,500, but there’s ones for about $2,000 as well:
Again, as you can see in that picture, this looks to be a motor that bolts right to the transaxle and the required controlling/recharging/inverter/etc. hardware.
These prices are way, way less than the other old VW conversion kits out there; this one from EV west, considered by many to be one of the best out there, costs about $20,000. Companies like Zelectric will sell you a beautifully restored-and-converted Beetle for a lot of money, and so will Volkswagen themselves, but it’ll cost you about $100,000.
Of course, the VW-endorsed solution, engineered by e-Classics, takes a very different approach, replacing the whole drivetrain with one from the VW e-Up! and mounting the batteries under the chassis floor, as you can see above.
Those, of course, are all very out of my price range. But what about one of those Alibaba kits? See, my poor ’73 Beetle, which I’m very fond of and have had since I was 18, is kind of in a bad state. I took off the carbs to clean and maybe rebuild them a while back, then made the rookie mistake of starting an entire new car website, so those carbs have just been sitting on my workbench and in all of this time of neglect, my engine seems a bit frozen up.
Ugh.
I feel so guilty about letting it sit like this! The car has been such a huge part of my life, and I hate feeling like I’m letting it down. I need to do something.
I was going to pull it and see if I could get it turning again or maybe crack it open and try my hand at rebuilding it, but let’s be real: I don’t have that kind of time right now! And I don’t have a ton of cash to just throw at it! But! What if I pulled that engine and tried out one of these cheap EV conversion kits?
From what I can tell, this would be a reversible conversion, if I don’t do anything stupid, so if I wanted to slowly rebuild the flat-four, I could, and then swap it back.
And, sure, 20 electric horsepower would be a power downgrade of about a third, which isn’t ideal, but, hey, no gas to buy! No valves to adjust! No fumes! No heat in the winter!
Also, it’s not clear if these conversion kits include batteries; I suspect they don’t. So that would be another significant expense. And I wouldn’t want lead-acids, since I’d need to fill the trunk and the rear luggage well completely just to get, what, maybe 50 miles of range? No, a lithium-ion pack from a wrecked Leaf or something would be way better.
Maybe this would be as big a project as just rebuilding the engine? But, then again, it might be more engaging to read about or see videos of for people?
I’m not sure yet. But, I am extremely curious about what these Alibaba conversion kits are like, and how difficult they might be to install. Maybe it’s worth looking into?
Anyone interested in seeing what a budget Beetle EV conversion is like, as performed by an idiot who maybe shouldn’t be allowed around batteries? Can I convince David to help me with this conversion instead of trying it on his Golden Eagle?
the real thing you need to do then is get EV west in California to sponsor a build and test series on Youtube. you can of course write articles too, but you and David should hit Tijuana and both buy the newest versions of the last of the VW beetles and import them to the US, that alone would make a killer series to document, but then when you get them to cali, you deal with alibaba and DT deals with EV west. compare prices, you two could I suppose work together to install the kits and document the things you have to cover outside of the kits. then do a range/0-60 time and then try to drive them from Cali to South Carolina or something like that. See which one holds up.
The EV west kits are pretty good, the electric motor works eerily similar to the cheap alibaba set up as far simplicity of install, so I would say outside of maybe electrocuting each other, the install should be simple enough.
Let me get this straight: You feel bad about neglecting you beloved Beetle, so you want to make up for it by tearing out its heart and soul??!! I think I have heard this urban legend before: You go out for drinks, only to get drugged. You wake up in a bathtub of ice missing vital organs replaced by cheap Chinese motors/electronics!
it would be interesting to see if that subaru axle kit could be made to fit a Changli.
Not to be contrarian here, but can’t you just buy a rebuilt VW engine? I’ve seen running beetle engines for $6-800 in horrible cosmetic condition on FB marketplace. And I’ve seen rebuilt, chromed out ones with nice pistons and stuff for $1500-3k. End of the day, is the expense really that high when you can get a car back on the road and actually start using it?
Also, dropping the engine and putting a new one in on an aircooled car is pretty freakin easy, I did it on my 911 with nothing but jackstands and a $150 motorcycle jack.
This was the first time I dropped it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W870A-EizDE
$2200, restored engine and transmission: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/949616292940832/
$200 engine and transmission, partially disassembled
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/266816169296583/
^ would be easy to throw this on an engine stand, and do a leakdown test if you have an air compressor. If it’s within spec all you need to do is clean it up and install some freshly rebuilt carbs and you’re in business.
$1800 rebuilt engine minus exhaust and clutch, you bring him your old one as a core so he can build the next one
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/992723365420490/
$1350 Restored 1600cc, needs coil and exhaust, ready to go.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1359382807946771/
Cmon man. I believe in you. Do you want to go through your whole life never doing an engine drop? Nothing like the feeling of putting an engine in a car, turning the key and hearing it come to life, then driving it around. Trust me!
Yeah, air-cooled VWsare easy-peasy to install/uninstall. First motor swap I ever did was in a 72 bus. About 3 hours—and I was green. Like only having done brakes green. My knowledgeable buddy coached me from his porch drinking the beer I bought him just as he promised, but he never touched a wrench. 4 bolts, 3 I think wires, fuel lines. Done
I always envisioned a motor/battery/controller/charger that occupied the same space and mounting scheme as the original engine for an EV conversion for my Manx style buggy. I figure I only need 20 miles of range….even the IC engine only runs correctly for that amount of time before requiring some kind of intervention.
This cheap Chinese kit appears to do just that. In fact, that black box pictured MAY be a battery box, which if you choose a battery whose dimensions fit, may negate the need to fabricate a battery box.
My gripe with it is the low continuous power and the fact that you can’t retain use of the original transmission, aside from the quality/durability of the components being questionable. If it had double the continuous power and roughly the same peak power, it would be a much more appropriate system and capable of highway cruising. It appears air-cooled, but liquid cooling for this wouldn’t cost a whole lot more to implement and would make this system so much more than it currently is.
For a vehicle of the Beetle’s mass and drag, 15 kW doesn’t get you a lot of go. 30 kW would be more than adequate. I think they went with a single speed reduction ratio to replace the transmission in order to squeeze a bit more efficiency out of it, and limited it to 55 mph because of the 15 kW limitation. A Beetle should be able to hold 55 mph on about 10 kW, and the extra 5 kW gives a bit of a buffer for accelerations and hills, so this would be an appropriate limit for this system. With 30 kW continuous, you could comfortably do closer to 75-80 mph.
I gotta say, once DT stopped being broke-ass cheap, his driving situation became a lot more fulfilling. Maybe hire a pro? This IS the Beetle we’re talking about, here
Seems the fine people at Chang Li owe you a replacement, and it better be their best. Considering their continued unauthorized use of your likeness ( a daily appreciating asset ) and written testimonials. That should fill the void for gas free grocery procurement. The Beetle should, nay, Must be restored, as it is the car equivalent of your soul mate. I hear Gossin Motors does righteous restorations, five times overloaded plate be damned. Toecutter estimated 7-10 thousand and a lot of work, for meh performance, 15-20 for good times. Holy sheep dip! That lower figure is triumph rocket 3 powered Jensen Healey money (want one), and the upper would buy out Gossin Motors, or one fine used fun car.
But you could daily the EV conversion, and if you don’t abuse the battery pack and if the components last(questionable with the Chinese parts, but almost certain with decent quality components), it will pay for itself in gasoline/maintenance savings in less than a decade of use, and you’ll have something completely unique, and unlike the modern EVs you can buy, you could actually repair this one.
I think this would be fantastic for #content, but you need a hard deadline. Is there some big VW meet coming up in like four days where it’s the featured attraction? Otherwise, I fear it would continue to languish.
The other option (which I think someone else here suggested) would be to gut the Changli and somehow transfer its electrics into the Fusca. Let’s be honest, that Changli isn’t going to run again, and better to turn it into a game room for Otto and move the “go” bits into the VW.
If I were in his neighborhood, I could probably make the ChangLi run again, if the issue is only batteries. In fact, if he got the parts, and I was there to assist him, I could upgrade it to run on a LiFePO4 battery pack, which would probably outlast the rest of the car. Imagine the ChangLi having 100+ miles of range. The only downside with that type of battery is that you cannot charge that battery below 32F temperature, and will need a way to keep them heated up in the cold, but they would otherwise last for decades and be much more reliable than lead acid, and don’t even need a BMS as long as the pack is a single series string and has been bottom balanced.
I meant to say “heated up in the cold before charging”. The CALB cells will operate just fine in the cold, even if it is -40F outside, but you need to keep the battery temperature above 32F when charging, period. Otherwise, the anode material will have a thin layer of lithium electroplate onto it, and the battery will become damaged or outright destroyed.
There are easy/economical solutions to this, such as a heater core and a temperature sensor placed into the battery box, which can draw power from the battery pack directly to heat itself.
You’d be about the best friend ever if you could make that happen. But srsly, could the Changli’s guts be used to electrify the Kafer? Or is that crazy talk (which would be even better content)?
The Changli’s motor is insufficient to push the weight of the VW Beetle. You could do it, but you’re eventually going to destroy the motor and/or controller. I personally wouldn’t.
That being said, depending on the controller’s specs, you might be able to find a bigger motor for cheap that is compatible with the controller, and re-use the controller, and turn the Beetle into a runabout capable of 35-40 mph top end and 30-50 miles range WITH reliable LiFePO4 batteries, for under $3k in new parts all up, retaining all 4 seats and all frunk space. This would be a 48V conversion, would not at all be fast but very usable around town, probably not easy to reverse the modifications if desired, and the Beetle would never be the same again.
A build to draw inspiration from is the following Geo Metro EV conversion, built 15 years ago with used/salvaged parts and lead acid golf cart batteries for $700 including the donor car:
https://www.forkenswift.com/
Do it!
73 Beetle with carb(s)? Plural?
I want to know more.
I think when it got stolen it was recovered without the original engine.
I would not do it on this beetle. It obviously means a lot to you, and while it seems like it might be reversible, my guess is you would get into it deep and figure out you had to make some modifications and if you are like me, once you are in deep it is hard to back out. I would love to see an EV swap done like this though, cheep beetles are still not hard to find.
What might even be more fun would be to do a rail buggy or dune buggy. Still cheap, but the lighter weight would make it much more fun to drive with the smaller HP.
I say go for it and work on the engine as time allows. You get a runner along with a series or articles.
You can then sell or keep the motor if you want, since it is “bolt on” should be an easy swap.
Just remember a chainsaw is not a battery removal tool.
Wonderful idea. Do it!!
Alternative suggestion. You obviously love that car. If anything goes wrong, you’ll feel guilty forever. So do this on a salvage beetle instead. Great autopian content, and your classic remains unscathed.
But it will be like a Schrödinger’s Beetle then:
We will never know if it WILL run at some time 😉
Spend the $ getting a professional fix your car properly. You’re a busy business owner. Your time writing 1,500 words about the relationship between 1972 Oldsmobile interior lighting and classic Katz Reubens + hanging with your family the rest of the time is more valuable than 1) spending more time installing this kit than fixing the car as is 2) doing it again in reverse when the kit catches on fire and ruins your upholstery.
You assume he doesn’t enjoy working on the car as much as driving it. I think this is a prerequisite to owning an old Beetle
I keep trying to tell myself that an old VW is one of the easiest to get running again after a long standstill. My 1971 Type 15 (convertible) has also been parked for 10+ years, while I was busy with kids and other modes of transport. I need to get on that one soon, I think…
So try and make it run again as originally intended (with the gasoline engine) and if you do, enjoy that it only uses half as much fuel as The Marshall.
Unless the engine needs EVERYTHING, which isn’t really likely, it can’t cost $2000 to get it running.
Stick some tall tyres and a roof rack on it when you are done, and go canoeing in it!
Having an old non runing Beetle is a very common thing for middle aged men. And it’s harder to get rid of than that VHS machine or dot matrix printer 😉
Here’s Jonny Smith trying to get his working.
And a gasoline engine tinkering series from you would be fun I think 😎
Or you could go ALL IN at make it into an electric hypermiler with super skinny pumped tires, fender skirts, no bumpers, remove all noise isolation, thin plastic front seats, no rear seats and make that opening rear window you so often talk about (OK maybe two times, but..) to make it more versatile. Interesting fun project too 😎
Just please no half baked quick fixes (fingers crossed emoji)
If your setup is inherently low in power, this also makes the car faster.
For aero, it will need a full underbody paneling that keeps the airfow as undisturbed as possible, rear wheel skirts, and a custom roof spoiler in the rear that simulates a Kammtail. The drag of a 1st gen VW Beetle can be cut by 1/3 or more if you go all-out on the modifications. Then install some Kumo low rolling resistance tires. You could have this thing only needing 130 Wh/mile to do 65 mph on the highway if you get everything right, which would be the new theoretical top speed using the cheap 15kW kit from the reduction in wind resistance, if your gearing were conducive to that(you might have to go to larger diameter wheels/tires in the rear to get that gearing). The efficiency mods will be key to having a higher top speed, otherwise you risk exceeding the continuous power that the motor/inverter is rated for with this cheap kit.
Or you could do all these hypermiling modifications, and spend more money to make it a hotrod. Retaining the transmission and installing a Netgain Hyper 9 HV system and a 153.6V 180AH pack of CALB CA180FI batteries might give you a 200 mile range on the highway(maybe 120 miles without aero/efficiency mods), 0-60 mph in about 6 seconds going through all the gears, top speed 140-ish(with aero mods, 120-ish without), and it would cost you around $20k all up including stronger mechanicals to make it possible. Would be well worth it, IMO. But this would not be an easily reversible conversion, but why would you want to do that anyway? You’d have a very werid-looking and economical hoonabout that you could daily and also compete with Mustangs at the local Cars and Coffee for most likely vehicle to unwittingly take out a crowd of bystanders and/or wrap itself around a streetlight post.
you had me at faster
I thought you were upgrading the Changli with new batteries? Bigger batteries (bigger motor?) would be cool to hear about.
How about cutting your teeth on that, then think about the Beetle conversion.
I’m here for all of this!
I’d been gathering parts for years to build an EFI turbo 1776cc for my ‘73 Squareback. More recently I’ve been considering selling all of that and working towards an electric build. Though my car is the 3-speed automatic, so I’d have to get more creative…
This is a terrible idea Jason…
How soon can you get started?
In all seriousness. Talk to some people who have converted an air cooled vw to ev cheaply & even better get them to help you with the build. I would think you’d want something relatively proven that doesn’t have to be fast, which should help to keep the costs down
Holy crap, do this now. Would love to see that beautiful old Beetle get the upgrade she deserves!
How is a cheap probably hazardous electric kit an upgrade on a classic German design though?
How is it not?
Heck yeah we’re interested!
We want to see the idiot with the chainsaw begin the tear down and attempt the install. Then the engineer flies out (who am I kidding, he’s not flying, he’ll drive and sleep in his car while bathing in random lakes along the way) and in a mad dash fueled by redbull and cheese bodges the project together just in time for you both (plus Otto) to road trip the BeEVtle to Moab.
10/10 would click on that article.
I think you need to be looking for excuses NOT to do this Torch! This will make for an epic series of articles. After seeing how removing batteries from an EV panned out I cannot wait to see how you go cramming them into a car. Particularly with a vastly more power dense, fire prone battery chemistry!
Where did I recently see a T-shirt that said, “That’s a terrible idea. What time?”
I think you’re gonna need a bigger chainsaw…
But hell yes you should do this and document the whole process so we can live vicariously (and safely) through your moist, internet-connected eyeballs.
Go ahead, you have my permission!
This is a terrible idea and you should order one today.