Good morning! Today’s Shitbox Showdown competitors might seem like an odd pairing, and I suppose they are, but there is a thread of connection: They’re both manuals, and they’re both at dealerships who really make it a point of telling you that they’re manuals. I guess they got tired of potential buyers showing up and not knowing how to drive a stick.
On Friday, I threw you all into a fit of confusion, apparently, and for that I apologize. But in my defense, the instructions were right there, as plain as day, in the paragraph right before the poll. You were supposed to vote for the car you thought was worst, not best. I’m assuming that all of you who voted for the LeBaron mis-read the instructions.
I do get the feeling, however, that the majority of you understood the assignment, and placed that trashed Land Rover at its rightful place at the bottom of the heap. That thing is just too far gone to be anything but a beater trail rig. It’s cool that it’s a stickshift, but really, if you’re looking for a cheap 4X4, just get a Cherokee. You’ll hate life a lot less.
Speaking of stickshifts, have you ever gone into a car dealership and asked for one specifically? I have, many times. They look at you like you’re from Mars. When I bought my one and only new car, a Mazda Protegé, I was specifically looking for a DX model with a manual. Out of probably fifty Protegés on the lot (it was a big dealership), they had exactly two manual DXs: One in white, and one in … white. I chose the white one. That was twenty years ago, and even back then I was told, “We just don’t stock manuals much, because we can’t sell them.”
Used car dealers have it worse, because they have less control over what hits the lot. And with fewer and fewer people (here in the US, anyway) able or willing to drive a stick every year, three-pedal machines just get harder and harder to move. Worse, since buyers aren’t expecting a car to be a manual, they sometimes show up to look at a car, only to discover they don’t know how to drive it. The dealerships selling today’s cars have taken drastic measures to get the message across. Let’s take a look.
2006 Mini Cooper S – $3,995
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 1.6 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, six-speed manual, FWD
Location: Hurst, TX (well, of course it’s a stick!)
Odometer reading: 82,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Usually, I avoid ads like this. Dealers like to add banners to their photos to keep their name in front of you, and they always seem to do it in such a way that I can’t crop it out. But the big “Manual Transmission” badge caught my eye on this one, and I immediately knew what led to it: someone called about this car, set up a “By Appointment Only” test drive, and didn’t know how to drive a stick. Maybe more than one someone.
Now, I don’t know what the take rate for manuals was on R53 Mini Coopers, but I bet it was pretty high. This is not a car I would expect to have an automatic transmission. This is not a car that is supposed to have an automatic transmission. It’s a hyperkinetic, supercharged, six-speed pocket rocket for those who want to have an absolute blast behind the wheel – in between bouts of infuriating down-time for maintenance and repairs.
This Mini has almost unbelievably low miles, though I get the feeling it’s been wrung out for most of those. I don’t know why, but this car is giving off track-toy vibes. The back seat is missing, for one thing. And there’s a tow hook, though I realize that doesn’t mean much; they’ve become a fashion accessory among certain crowds. But it just feels like this car has been driven hard.
It does run and drive well, according to the seller, except for worn-out rear struts, but it sounds like replacements might be included. It’s nice and straight, and the interior looks good too, except for the missing back seat. You’d want to go over it with a fine-toothed comb, I think, but this car with this mileage for this price feels like it could be a good deal for the right person.
2009 Hyundai Sonata GLS – $4,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Odometer reading: 166,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
Just after I found the ad for the Mini, I found this Hyundai, with its own “Manual Transmission” text emblazoned across the photo. This one makes more sense; Hyundai Sonatas with manual transmissions can’t be too common. They’re out there, sure, but a person looking for a Sonata is more likely to be shopping for an automatic, I would imagine.
In this generation of Sonata, the manual gearbox was only available with a 2.4 liter “Theta II” twincam four, Hyundai’s spoils from the Global Engine Alliance. Certain versions of this engine have a less-than-stellar reputation, but I believe most of the problems were with later ones than this. This one, at 166,000 miles, seems to be holding up all right.
The same can’t be said for the dash top; the Texas sun has not been kind. The rest of the interior is all right for the mileage, and it looks fine outside. One photo shows the dashboard with the car running, and the tire-pressure warning light is on, but we all know how those sensors can be.
This car is priced quite a bit lower than other ’09 Sonatas I found with automatics, so I think it fits David’s “Ugly Stick” definition: a car that’s not in demand with a manual transmission. Though if I’m honest, I don’t think this car is ugly. Dull, maybe, but clean and straightforward. Maybe it’s just a sign of how fussy modern car shapes have gotten that something as generic and NPC-looking as this feels like a breath of fresh air.
I’m not part of the “no automatics ever” crowd, at least, not anymore. But I do prefer manuals when it comes to cheap cars, primarily for durability reasons. You have no idea how many ads I see for sub-$3000 cars with automatic transmission problems, and not one of them is worth fixing. Being willing and able to drive a manual is the best way to get by with cheap cars. One of these is a good daily-driver candidate, the other is more of a toy, but could be an everyday car for the right gearhead. Both feel like decent deals. Which one is your choice?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
It’s the Mini all day. But that’s for me. I have no use for an old 4 door sedan with a roached dash pad. I don’t have a need for a worn out mini either but I can see some fun for a cheap track toy. So its an easy binary decision. However, for many, a cheap, relatively reliable and comfortable car with a fuel sipping 4 and a stick.. that is a fantastic first car for ANY 16 year old or young person / couple.
Yeah, the Mini may have been subjected to some molestation of some form – the tow hook just seems like a dead giveaway to me. Yes, they do qualify as fashion accessories, but I’m willing to bet that it went further than that. I’d still take my chances with it, though, because it’s a Mini and the other one is…..well, it’s a Hyundai Sonata.
Sonata…no thanks on a Mini (except Mr. Bean’s!)
I would actually take the Sonata all things being equal, but the Sonata looks pretty roached and has twice the miles. I also share the author’s view that this generation of Sonata is a clean, handsome design, right about the time most cars got too tall and fussy, looks much better than a contemporary Accord. Anyway, going with the Mini, but a cleaner Sonata could have swung me the other way.
Mini. If your going to drive a manual then make it a fun one.
I’ve shopped dozens of used Minis before I gave up, and I think this is probably the nearest you’ll get to a “good” used Mini. If I wasn’t disenchanted by all the fault codes I’ve read on other people’s Minis, it would be tempting to look into this one more carefully. I voted for it, but I’m over actually wanting to own it.
I would use the Sonata as the family mule to teach all my relatives and their kids how to drive a manual. Aside from that, it’s an OK enough car, but I don’t need a random OK car in my driveway now.
I voted for the Mini but sent the Hyundai URL to my son.
Here’s the deal with R53s:
The packaging constraints make it fairly involved to work on them (labor is expensive)
BMW manufacturing = BMW part prices (expensive)
Small used hatchback = many became cheap first cars for younger/cash-strapped drivers.
Net, they have a reputation for being unreliable because it is really tempting to defer maintenance & repairs for as long as possible, or to fix them with cheaper subpar parts. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t.
The reality is, like any type of car, they are fairly predictable in what fails, and it’s pretty easy to figure things out when they do. If you’re paying shop rates, prepare to cry (or maybe just lease a Hyundai instead?). DIYer who is willing to put some extra effort in? Possibly the most fun per dollar you can find…
I also feel the shit show that came after the R50/53’s taints these a bit. On the flip side of the cheap first car there were a ton of people who bought these as toys that went to the same dealer as their main car. I don’t know that there is a more fun front wheel drive car available in the US. Not the fastest, but dear god are they fun to drive.
I’m also a R53 lifer and agree if you have some do the maintenance for you. I find them very easy to work on and spacious once you put it in maintenance mode. You hit the nail on the head with their real issue, and let’s face it, most European cars, is that people don’t maintain them and use cheap parts to make repairs. I love my 06 R53 and it isn’t a bad car for reliability. All told I have owned over 80 cars to date and the MINI falls mid-pack. Worst ever was a MkIV GTI. I loath that car.
Totally with you on the VW vibes – We have a MkV Sportwagon that I just can’t seem to love…
I already have a reliable, boring car. Unfortunately, it’s not a stick, because the first owner had a hellish commute halfway around Route 128 – but it’s a color, and the dashboard doesn’t look like a dry lakebed.
I’ve wanted an R53 Cooper S since they were new, and while I’m sure this one would be even more troublesome than average, being the final model year of its generation has to help, right? Right?
I let my heart vote today.
“…have you ever gone into a car dealership and asked for…?”
No, I have not.
I would carefully look over the wiring in that Mini. It probably had one hell of a subwoofer in the back. I bet it also smells of strawberry vape inside.
Based on my limited experience in the past four years, today’s dealership model is based on appointments. I tried to drop in on a Ford dealer in 2019 to test drive a Fiesta ST which was listed in their online inventory. It was not a good use of my time. They claimed it was parked-in on the back of the lot, and they’d need time to get it out. They let me sit in a normal Fiesta, which was like putting on an ill-fitting pair of gloves.
I’m gonna go with the Mini… due to the much greater fun factor. Though I suspect if I bought it in real life, I’d eventually regret it.
Yuk. I wouldn’t want either of these, manual notwithstanding. So I voted Hyundai just to be awkward.
I was a little wary of the Mini, between the missing back seats and presumed hard mileage, but that Sonata is a snoozer. I guess if it were my only car, I’d have to go with the practical choice, but if I had just a couple thou more, I’d probably prefer the Mini plus a beater to the Hyundai alone.
I’m going with the MINI despite what I know it will need in the future. The supercharger service will be due in a few thousand miles. It is not necessary difficult except it is labor intensive.(DIy, plan for a long day or pay a bunch ant the dealer) always see this model being sold right around this mileage. Stillit is a very fun car.
It’ll be fine without a supercharger service – I didn’t touch mine until 170k. Still fine at 200k. Probably doesn’t make sense to do unless you’re already going in for something else.
When I do see a Mini, about 1/3 of the time it’s got the tow hook threaded in (front passenger side), as though the owner acknowledges the inevitable and wants to make sure the tow truck driver can get it hooked up and on the move with a minimum of fuss. Granted, this example is the slightly more reliable of the marque, but even as an avowed BMW aficionado I’m not a fan (oddly enough, non-US markets got this car with a Toyota diesel, which would have made for a great vehicle).
On the other hand, that Hyundai is the house brand white box corn flakes of modern sedans – it’s there and it does its job, but is eminently forgettable.
I’d take the Hyundai, if only because if I needed a car and had this little to spend I’ll take the one that doesn’t require triple-jointed fingers to work on.
“Have you ever gone into a car dealership and asked for one specifically?”
Yep, 2008 Saturn Astra. First they tried to talk me into an Aura instead, since they were roughly the same price. They did have a base Astra on the lot in stick version that I could test drive. They ended up doing a dealer trade with another dealership about 100 miles away to get me one near the configuration that I wanted. The nice thing with the Astra was that you could get every option with either transmission. So they found me one with everything except leather seats. It was pretty loaded up for a 2008 economy car. Heated cloth seats, 6 disk CD changer in the dash, automatic wipers, giant sunroof, etc. I did hear the manual transmission take rate on the Astra was something like 45%. But they still didn’t sell very many of them.
Like all the furrin cars if they check out and up to date on maintainance both are okay but I am going Mini at half the miles twice the fun
The supercharged MINI was more dependable than the turbocharged MINI that followed it. I had a 2006 MINI S convertible with a pulley upgrade and some suspension mods. It was a fun as shit little car. I later owned a 2008 R55 Clubman S that I absolutely loved, but it had more glitches than the matrix.
I went with the Mini because the original “Italian Job” was part of my automotive potty training and, as Freud posited, that shit can mess you up for life. I’m paraphrasing.
I’m going against my conventional wisdom and voting Mini, with the plan that I’ll catch up on basic maintenance and tires, track it, and junk it when something big goes wrong. If I needed more basic transit I’d take the Sonata. I remember having one of these in automatic/V6 form as a rental way back in the day and didn’t hate it.
Obvious answer is obvious. Next question.
We, well my grandmother and occasionally me, once owned a Mini Countryman. I think it’s got the same year and engine as the mini there. Had the iconic British racing green and black stripes and those cool barn doors. The automatic was alright in it. The car had close to 150,000 miles and was pretty reliable until something with the emissions would give me a code on my obd 2 sensor among other things. It would burn oil really badly in its last couple of days and occasionally stall, not good in high speed TX traffic. I believe it started loosing oil pressure, so after a top up of oil we got 1500 for it from CarMax. The interior, even if harsh and brash plastic, held up surprisingly well for those 150,000 miles. I hope somewhere it has a new engine and is healthy but it probably got scrapped or parted.
That’s a nice color for the Mini, and a back seat on that car is utterly pointless, so I’m glad it’s gone. Anyone trying to stick another person in the back of a Mini S should be punished by having to find that particular grey Sonata in an airport parking structure, and not be allowed to leave until they do.
(That Sonata would be a better getaway car though, it’s so boring and generic it might as well be invisible)
In my countryman (basically a extended wagon version of this mini), we could fit people in the rear seat as long was they weren’t too too tall. Seems like it would be a ordeal in the mini featured here
You won’t be able to find the Mini in a parking structure either, because its between an F150 and a QX80.