Every so often, an engine swap comes along that just makes you scratch your head. This is one of these times. Under the hood of this 1967 Ferrari 365 GT 2+2 sits the heart of a front-wheel-drive Cadillac, the infamous Northstar V8. To borrow a quote from the great John Phillips, “Some look at things that are and ask, ‘Why?’ I dream of things that never were and ask, ‘Why this?’”
While this Columbo V12-engined slice of exotica rolled out of Modena intact and gleaming, the concept of keeping it nice didn’t really happen over the years. According to the Bring A Trailer listing for this car, “It was purchased by the seller’s late husband in the 2000s before being subsequently repainted silver and fitted with a 4.6-liter Northstar V8 and a 700R4 four-speed automatic transmission.” Out of all possible powertrain options, huh?
See, I could get behind a small-block Chevrolet V8, a Ford Cleveland V8, or a Mopar 440 under the hood of a non-running Ferrari, but the Northstar is a flawed choice. Not only is this V8 not a vast improvement over the stock output of 320 (admittedly gross) horsepower, the engine itself is, well, kind of crappy.
See, this is a transverse Northstar that was mounted longitudinally in this Ferrari back in 2002, and these earlier engines are known for extreme oil leakage and head bolts that fail, lifting the heads, blowing the head gaskets, compromising the mating surfaces, and turning the engines into coffee table material. Add in the perplexing choice of a four-speed automatic transmission, and you end up with the perfect recipe to anger purists and excite no one in particular. I’m not saying this thing’s a 1993 Cadillac Allante with extra steps, but it’s not the first machine to mate Italian craftsmanship with Northstar power.
At the same time, this Northstar-swapped 365 GT 2+2 reportedly hasn’t run since 2006, so even getting it going will require at least some modicum of work. Finishing it will take more, as the listing states that “The seller describes the engine installation as “not fully sorted.” Oh dear.
Alright, so let’s say you want to rip out this thing’s Detroit heart and return it to proper provenance. While tempting as an initial thought, this is not the sort of example you’d put back to stock. Even if you found the correct Columbo V12 for this car, that engine would be cost-prohibitive, as would be un-doing the slicing and dicing that was necessary to make the Northstar fit. At the same time, you’d need to source the original gearbox, along with the requisite accessories.
Perhaps the answer, as some Bring A Trailer commenters have suggested, is to swap in an F116 V12 out of a Ferrari 456. They usually run for between $10,000 and $15,000 second-hand, can be run on a MoTec or similar aftermarket engine management system, make 436 horsepower straight from the factory, and emit glorious V12 noises. Pair with a manual gearbox of your choosing, and enjoy a V12 Ferrari GT car with classic looks and the convenience of electronic fuel injection.
Whatever future plans may lay ahead, this should be on the cheap end for a Ferrari 365 GT 2+2. With a day left on the auction, the current high bid is only $36,000, and the daunting task of dealing with someone else’s project ought to keep a damper on the hammer price. At this point, only one thing’s certain — whoever buys this thing has one hell of a project ahead of them.
(Photo credits: Bring A Trailer)
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LS swap that mf’er.
Now that practically everything has been LS swapped, I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if there’s already a kit for this particular conversion. “Bolts right in!”
Jokes aside, an LS is a sensible choice, they’re powerful, relatively compact, and even if there’s not a specific kit to fit one into this Ferrari there’s plenty of parts that let you (eg) move the sump to a better location for a particular vehicle.
Maybe an LS isn’t an original choice, but it’s the simplest route to getting this car driving again.
I mean, it sounds like a wrecked XLR might be a good donor for this type of project. Might.
Hmmm, how many Hayabusas could we fit under the hood?
A N* can be made reliable. Head studs first. They can even make a decent noise with the right exhaust.
This, ugh, part it and burn it. The Home Depot Motorsports plumbing fittings and hose clamped brake fluid hoses don’t inspire confidence. And just under $40k at time of comment.
These were really cheap in the 90s so I suspect it was somebodies private project and they just tossed in an engine that they had
As long as we are being ridiculous, pull the v12 and automatic out of a BMW 850i and drop that in. More faithful to the original, and possibly less reliable.
Thanks, I hate it
To be fairrr, the Northstar is kinda light, pretty compact, real easy to get to run, dirt cheap, and you can run it on some cheap stand-alones. Yeah, it probably blew a headgasket while I typed this. But, If you’re trying to save money on engine swapping your Ferrari, could be worse, I guess.
Are we not doing “Crack Pipe” anymore? Nobody?
This might be the only way to buy a Ferrari for a reasonable price
“Perhaps the answer, as some Bring A Trailer commenters have suggested, is to swap in an F116 V12 out of a Ferrari 456.”
I have a better or worse idea, depending on your point of view… swap in a Lamborghini V12 of some sort.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_V12
Why not a Jaaaaag? (Well, obviously because it would be a nightmare, but still)
The Pep-boys cobra shifter tells you everything you need to know.
The original engine is probably in a fake GTO somewhere and that is why this happened. I think just about everyone would remove the Northstar as soon as they got it home. I know it’s boring to some and blasphemy to others but I think I would just put a small block Chevy in it. It’s simple, easy and what I am familiar with.
My first thought was LS swap. I understand people thinking LS swaps are overdone and too common but I figure they are common for a reason.
I was thinking swap the diesel/slushbox out of a w123 Benz. One of the slowest cars known to man. But other than slow, that is a REALLY SOLID engine.
Up the blasphmey even more. 5.7 oldsmobile diesel with the glass jaw 200R4 trans. Or a Cadillac HT4100 lol. Maybe not, the HT4100 could at least sound cool with duals/crossover pipe. All bark and no bite
This makes a solid case to bring back public floggings.
This is just begging for a Predator swap at this point.
Man, now my brain is all over joining up 6 Predator V-twins on a single crankshaft to make the world’s worst 4L V-12. 3 banks of 2 engines each with 60 degree offsets and careful attention to timing should do it, right?
Paging Robot Cantina!
Screams for an Aussie Ford Barra I-6.
For some morbid reason, I would love to see Liberty Walk or RWB or some other crazy tuner get their hands on this, and just go to town on it. Proper engine swap, crazy body kit, ridiculous everything.
As someone who already hates most engine swaps, this is just offensive. Stupid engine choice, shit craftsmanship, and just generally bad decisions made all around. That thing is now a parts car for a restoration and nothing more.
I’m a big fan of engine Swaps that make no sense, and this is definitely that. Should enrage the purists and just about everyone else, excellent!
With enough time and resources, can Northstar engines be “fixed”/made reliable? (…and without “yeah, by replacing them with [other engine]”)
Short answer: why?
A couple things…
Were Northstar engines fun? I’m sure there’s more than one engine from decades past that can be described as “tons of fun, right until they blow up” or similar.
If so, that leads to my second concern, which is whether such a “bulletproofing” process for a Northstar is more labor-heavy than parts-heavy, in which case, as a passion project, why not?
Even I can admit the pairing of a Northstar in a Ferrari is sacrilegious, yet undeniably hilarious. Like putting an Iron Duke in a Lambo, except at least the Iron Duke was known to be reliable (I think).
Gotcha. My logic is crap motor why bother. Now an iron Duke in a Ferrari… I’m on board with that.
Of course. I just don’t know enough about Northstars to know if they were good when they were working.
In the same way that I’ve heard Ford’s 6.0l PowerStroke is actually a good, competent engine once it’s been bulletproofed.
Lol. Yup. Aka get a truck with a better motor and save money
Right now, this is a nice set of Campagnolo alloys, good glass and a decent interior attached to a good VIN and should be priced accordingly. This car is a victim of the days when there was such a thing as a “cheap” v12 Ferrari.
I checked the listing… yeah, the plumbing bits from Home Depot spliced into the cooling system and electrical conduit clips holding up the piping aren’t really inspiring confidence in this conversion. Neither are the random blue anodized fittings that smack of boy-racer ebay purchase. Also the clutch petal welded to the brake with some kind of tube steel. I’m going to go ahead and pass on this one.
I think the real move forward here is to INCREASE the blasphemy. Which means a Prius swap. Think about it – soul-killing, horrible-sounding 4-cylinder engine, awful CVT… What’s could be better for causing brain bleeds among the Ferrari faithful?
Alternately, I could get behind a Cummins swap on this thing…
I’d make it an EV using a Lucid motor, which is good for @ 600hp.
Yeah, but that would make it objectively GOOD to drive, not a horrible, eye-gouging blasphemy of a car. To expand on my previous comment, the Prius swap should make it FWD, too. Just ruin the hell out of any driving joy.
I came to say let’s go for gold. Duke Iron with a powerglide…. But your idea also works.
I will not stand for this Prius blasphemy. The eCVT is different mechanically from regular CVTs (say, like Jatco ones) and is perfectly cromulent. The engine sound isn’t compelling but it’s competent at what it does. I put the pedal down and it goes!
Maybe I’ve got a limited sample size, since I’ve only driven two second-gen Pruises, but they were both quite drone-y and the transmissions were pretty lethargic-feeling. Especially when the battery is not exactly healthy. I’ve got a lot of seat time in my partner’s Versa Note with the Jatco CVT, and it’s tolerable. Not great, but tolerable. Still, either drivetrain would utterly ruin the driving experience.
Mine is a 3rd-generation v model. I dunno, I wish my old van had had the smooth no-shifting transmission experience.
Nonetheless–I do concur the engine would be comparatively disappointing, to put it mildly.
(But it sure would be more reliable than a Northstar.)
This isn’t a problem with the transmission, it’s a problem with a car that’s not functioning correctly. The Prius engine is only 76 HP or something like that, so it’s going to drive pretty badly when not getting the expected boost from the battery.
The sort of CVT in the Prius is actually brilliant, it’s not one in those haybailer belt drive things. Its more like a differential, and closer to what the Koenigsegg Regera does than to the CVTs in gas cars.
I was about to comment Cummins, but you beat me to it.
Nothing about this is in good taste and it fails to make sense on any level. This is the type of person that puts carpet in a bathroom.
This is the kind of person who tears out tile and puts wood laminate in the bathroom without ever installing the trim. He’s not just made it dramatically worse, he didn’t even finish the job!
The stick on linoleum tiles on top of real hardwood floors kind of guy
The person responsible for this build was probably of that generation. I bet every flat surface in his bathroom had some kind of shag, except the tiled countertop.
The real crime here was painting it silver.
Agree. While the buyer is in there spending $thousands sorting out the drive train issues, go ahead and give it a re-spray to proper red.
Do you think someone who chose a Northstar engine is interested in being seen?
Painted silver to blend in with all the other boring-mobiles on modern roads. What the heck is that gear shift “knob”? I can’t make it out on my laptop screen.
It’s some kind of ergonomic looking Tee handle. Looks odd in that angle but clear from the other side.
https://www.topjdmstore.com/products/cobra-shift-knob
If the interior is original, it could have been born silver. 365 GTCs were generally painted in more subtle colors.