Once upon a time, we were told never to bring our banking details near a computer. Eventually, online commerce became normalized and it wasn’t that hard to stay safe. As I found out this past week, however, there are actors out there eager to take advantage of the unwary.
I feel like I got screwed this past week by a VIN check website that claims it works directly with the US government. Based on that, you’d think I’d have been safe from feeling duped, but I wasn’t.
The slick actors not only charged my credit card, but naturally denied any refund once they had my hard-earned money. I’m pushing to get my money back, but it’s about more than that now. I’m doing everything I can to make sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else.
This all started with the best of intentions. I’d recently challenged Autopian readers to try and buy a Volkswagen guitar and the matching car that goes with it. See, back in 2006, VW was giving away VIN-matched guitars with their new cars. I wanted to see if someone could reunite a guitar with its original vehicle, and Nathan Gerdes took up the challenge. He’s the Associate Editor over at Cars & Bids, so he knows a thing or two about buying cars. He’d bought a white guitar that originally came with a Jetta, and asked for my help—and that of the Autopian hivemind—to help him track down the car.
My first stop was Carfax, but the website is literally set up to block Australians from purchasing reports. Thus, I figured I’d Google around for another VIN check service. I came across EpicVIN, and it looked like it would do the job. Their site offered “Free VIN Check by VIN & Plate” which sounded right up my alley.
Clicking through, they suddenly wanted $1 for the report. I wasn’t that surprised; most sites were asking similar fees. I’m a working journalist and I don’t have time to screw around, so I keyed in my credit card details, clicked through, and bought the report. I sent it off to Nathan, and thought little more of it. I filed away the guitar story to work on later and moved on.
Fast forward a few days. My smartphone chimes, alerting me I’ve just been charged again by “www.epicvin.com.” I was shocked and incredibly pissed off. I’d paid for a $1 report, and here it was showing they’d slugged me for $50 USD—a full $75 Australian dollars.
I immediately reached out to EpicVIN to determine what the hell was going on. Their little game was quickly made apparent to me. When I demanded an immediate refund, their automated response insisted none would be forthcoming. This is all a part of their little game.
You see, you’re not buying a report for $1. You’re buying a “trial membership” to their premium service. Indeed, their site graphic says you’re getting “unlimited access to detailed reports for just $1*” but that’s not really the truth. You’re getting a 3-day trial that gives you up to five reports, and then they slug you for $50 USD. They’ll do so every month if you don’t catch the subscription charge the first time, too.
This strategy isn’t completely unique. Lots of companies have free trials that will then sign you up for an ongoing service. Maybe you get two weeks or a month of free service, at which point you’re charged the regular fee.
EpicVIN apparently took this strategy and tweaked it to its advantage. It found a service that most people expect to be a one-off purchase, and turned it into what I feel is a sneaky subscription service. The cheap initial payment then puts you on an incredibly short timer—just three days!—before which you’re slugged with a massive $50 charge.
It’s not just EpicVIN, either. The company also owns VinInspect.com with a very similar pricing scheme and checkout page. DOJ records indicate EpicVIN also owns VinGurus.com as well, though it appears to use a different pricing structure.
The company’s standpoint is that they are open and honest about their product. Their order page states in the corner that you’re getting a “3 Day trial membership.” If you can find it amongst all the visual noise on the checkout page, the fine print does state there will be a $49.99 charge to come in three days. It’s worth noting, too that the $1 offer for Unlimited Reports” is not a real thing. EpicVIN was careful to dot a few asterisks around the page. If you really hunt you might realize you’re not even getting unlimited access for your initial $1 trial.
Few consider that fair. Reddit is full of people complaining about EpicVIN’s practices. The Better Business Bureau has recorded many complaints to the same effect.
Indeed, there were so many complaints that EpicVIN made some minor changes to its site and tried to claim it had fixed the problem. It’s clear there are plenty of average people out there who find this kind of thing to be somewhat predatory, abhorrent, and offensive.
You might argue that I should have read all the fine print and that this is a perfectly fine way to do business. In that case, I invite you to sign up with EpicVIN and try canceling your service right away. Multiple people say they tried to do that, and got charged $50 anyway. Despite playing by the twisted rules, these people say they still got screwed.
There are scathing reviews all over the web that are trashing EpicVIN’s pricing practices. And yet somehow, the site retains three and four-star ratings on many of them.
I made multiple attempts to seek a refund from EpicVIN, but the company held fast. “We understand your request for a refund, but as mentioned previously, we’re unable to process a refund for the subscription. The subscription terms were clearly outlined during the purchase process, and unfortunately, we can’t deviate from our policies,” read the email.
I wasn’t surprised. This is how EpicVIN makes money—not by selling individual reports at a dollar a pop, but by scraping $50 a time from unsuspecting users.
I’ve already contacted my bank to pursue a chargeback. I’ve had to cancel a card and jump through all kinds of hoops. I had no choice. I couldn’t let this stand.
I’m not leaving it there, though. Based on reviews I’ve seen online, I fully expect EpicVIN will try and claim their transaction was legitimate. Plus, even if I get my money back, that won’t help anyone else avoid getting hoodwinked. So what else can be done?
EpicVIN lists an address in North Miami Beach, Florida. I’ve notified the office of the Florida Attorney General about the matter via mail. It can also be done online, and I would advise anyone else similarly affected to do the same at this link.
To source data for its reports, EpicVIN has access to the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System. Indeed, EpicVIN is on a list of Approved NMVTIS Data Providers, under the oversight of the US Department of Justice. I’ll be making a submission to the DOJ regarding the matter—specifically the Bureau of Justice Assistance, which administers the NMVTIS.
I’ve notified Google that it is hosting ads for a business that I feel is engaged in misleading pricing activity. I’ve also found that EpicVIN.com and VinGurus.com are registered with GoDaddy, an American Internet hosting company, while VinInspect.com was registered with NameCheap. I’ve notified the respective organizations of the practices ongoing on these websites. Clearly, I’m not happy.
As far as reviews go, EpicVIN currently has a four-star rating on Google. There are a ton of 1-star reviews with angry complaints, but that’s outweighed by five-star reviews from a few people.
I will note that EpicVIN also features logos for numerous companies (like NHTSA and Forbes) on its website. I’ve contacted these organizations to ask what their relationship is with EpicVIN, and whether they support the company’s activities in any way. We’ll update as comments become available.
This isn’t the first time I’ve tangled with what I feel is predatory pricing online. I’ve had newspapers pull funny tricks before, forcing me to cancel subscriptions over the phone or otherwise making my life difficult. I’ve never had an organization try and screw me out of $50 for a three-day trial. I’ve also never heard of one that allegedly still insists on scraping its customers’ accounts even when they managed to cancel the predatory subscription ahead of time.
Ultimately, I’m doing my best to get the word out. Again, I’m not happy.
Image credits: EpicVin via screenshot, Office of the Attorney General Florida, DOJ, Google Streetview, LinkedIn Via Screenshot, Nathan Gerdes
So what you’re really saying is that The Autopian staff don’t use a VPN. Coming from a friend: start using one before y’all end up like the US auto dealers. Additional bonus: being able to use US-based sites.
WordPress attracts hackers like David attracts rust.
I chuckled when I saw the 954 area code on the phone number. NEVER trust a Florida based company. Scam capitol of the US.
Source: guy with a 954 area code cell phone
@Lewin Day I’m so sorry that my silly impulse purchase led you into such a bummer situation! But I admire the effort in helping track down the matching Jetta; maybe one day the car and guitar shall reunite…
Haha, all good – chargeback worked and I got an article out of it.
I think it’s rad you got the guitar and I hope we can find that Jetta…
This has ALMOST happened to me too. When I was shopping for my Volt, I found a killer deal on one. Checked with a few vin places, all came back clean. I had also been calling my local chev dealer, to see what sort of warranty work had been done. They immediately informed me, dude, that thing was completely totaled, we won’t touch it if you ever bring it in. I called the dealer selling the car, which was advertised with a CLEAN TITLE, and they said, “Oh, its a clean title for your state, we didn’t say it had never been totaled!”. Fuck that.
With respect to getting your money back, can you do a charge back? My understanding is that usually means the vendor will no longer do business with you, but given that’s exactly your intent anyway, it seems like a fair way to claw back your $75 at least.
The most annoying part of charge backs is Chase makes you wait until the charge appears on a monthly statement before they’ll even let you dispute it. Assume they are banking on you forgetting to dispute it.
Like it or not, it is a valid charge, which is what the company will tell the credit card issuer.
Unless you can show the credit card issuer that you canceled before the trial was up, or the charge wasn’t what they said it would be. Some proof they ripped you off, you don’t have much to argue with a charge back.
Nope, my bank accepted that this was not cool and approved the chargeback.
Why I love my credit cards – I’ve escaped so much fraud over the years because of their vigilance, and none of it was because I did something to cause the issue.
Breaking: Local Australian man discovers Florida has more snow then consumer protection laws.
Shady online scams are like 1/2 the economy of Miami-Dade County. Without various grifts how would one pay for a leased Bentley with matte wrap? If it makes you feel better, I’m sure they already lost all your money funding some sort of crypto- themed water park in international waters where all drugs are legal.
> Breaking: Local Australian man discovers Florida has more snow then consumer protection laws.
The first time I read this, I thought it was a cocaine joke. The second time I read this, I began to doubt the “joke” part.
They’re right up there in Nigerian prince territory.
Yeah, I live in Florida and I’m figuring the Attorney General may be on their Board of Directors.
At the very minimum they’re receiving kickbacks in the form of “lobby donations.”
“Billing Details: Enjoy a 3-day membership trial that allows up to 5 reports. Cancel anytime by visiting your account settings on our website or contact us for assistance. After the trial, your subscription will continue at $49.99 per month (plus any applicable sales tax).”
This disclaimer is written directly below where you enter your credit card information and click to order a report. The disclaimer is clearly shown in the screenshot posted in the article. How is this buried “amongst all the visual noise on the checkout page”?
I agree their business practices are shady, but they seem to be fairly up front about their scam.
Even if you notice it, that doesn’t necessarily help. As per the article, plenty of people cancelled and still got charged.
That is not okay.
I agree this company sucks, but this scam should be very easy to avoid. I was going to buy a report from this company a few weeks ago but didn’t after reading the disclaimer.
This company is clearly trying to make money off of people who don’t read the fine print, but consumers need to take some responsibility. I have never seen a company be so honest about their dishonesty.
Because there is a “subscription” at all. If you went to buy a car, and in the thousands of pages of print it says “you’ll be charged an additional $500 delivery fee per month,” you’d be outraged, even though it is clearly listed and stated. That’s because a “delivery fee” is a one time affair…just like checking a VIN. Unless you’re a reseller, dealer, or car nut, in which case you can go and subscribe, because it would be cost effective and that option could be made available instead of automatic.
Imagine a world where they just simply charged $5 per VIN lookup…or even $10 (not Carfax’ $35 or whatever they’re charging for obviously limited data). That would be a great service, and people would flock to it and “word of mouth” it everywhere. I would suspect that one could corner the market and make bank, and it would be straight up honest.
“If you went to buy a car, and in the thousands of pages of print it says “you’ll be charged an additional $500 delivery fee per month,” you’d be outraged, even though it is clearly listed and stated.”
Again, read the damn fine print. Never sign something you don’t understand. I read through every document prior to buying a vehicle. You should too.
“Imagine a world where they just simply charged $5 per VIN lookup…or even $10”
How about $14.99? There is a company called Epicvin that will sell you a single report for $14.99 without a subscription if you click two buttons on their website.
+1 to this. Article could have alternatively been titled “I didn’t read the fine print and want to blame someone else”
If sometimes they still charge people after they canceled in time that’s one thing. But even then, that’s a 5 minute call to your credit card company to show them your cancelation and boom your money is refunded to the card.
Prove to me you’ve read the 73 pages of Gmail’s Terms and Conditions. Betcha you’re the type of people that don’t know that Facebook owns the rights to ANY picture you upload to their sites…any of them…that’s IF you know where the EULA and T&Cs are in the first place. Or that Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc etc own the rights to view any of the content on any of your emails, chats, phone calls, video calls. How about Amazon being able to send content to any law enforcement agency that asks for Ring images, even those inside your home (if we’re talking about paid services)?
It’s easy to say “read the fine print.” It’s not as easy to actually have a law degree and be able to decipher some of the legalese that these folks foist upon us all.
My rule of thumb: forget the fine print. Anything I do with a connected device will have ALL information available to ALL geopolitical entities.
So if CIA and CCP want to see my hairy butt, have at it.
I’d just wish the NSA would respond back. I recommend a book to a friend over the phone and I can’t remember what it was. I know the NSA was listening, but no, they won’t tell me
I’m still waiting for that proof of aliens, personally…FOIA my butt!
Ummm, I’m right here.
Just get a copy MS Copilot Replay and all your problems will be shared.
If you’re in IT, you know exactly how true that is, but it still boggles some people’s minds…just look at “Incognito Mode” lawsuits…
On the one hand, the $49.99 is spelled out directly below the checkout button in the screengrab. There are also asterisks at the $1 charge mentions. On the other hand, there is also mention of a money back guarantee right below the subscription stuff, which they don’t seem to be keen on honoring.
This company is scammy. The issue does also feel preventable. While EULAs are certainly made to discourage learning what you give up, this does spell out what’s happening more clearly than pages of legalese. Would they have let him cancel and avoid the charge? Maybe not! Would he have paid them the first dollar had he understood the rest of the arrangement? Also maybe not, which would have been the ideal setup. They don’t even get a dollar, he finds a more reputable site, and we’re talking about the VW instead of the VIN site.
Regardless, this is a good reminder that complacency is what leads to falling for scams. I think a lot of people who spend a lot of time on the internet assume it’s just older folks who get conned, but it can happen to anyone who lets their guard down.
To be fair, most people would logically interpret the “money back guarantee” as like “if you use our service and find that its reports are inadequate/incomplete, you can have a refund” and not so much “If you’re lazy and didn’t realize you were buying a subscription when it’s clearly labeled a subscription, we’ll give you your money back because we’re really nice guys”
And that’s why some of us never use Ring, Facebook, “smart” appliances or any of that crap if at all possible.
Dude, there’s a huge huge huge difference between 73 pages of legalese fine print and this current situation where it’s like two sentences clearly displayed at checkout.
The difference is they make an extremely long and purposefully hard to read document to indemnify themselves from exactly this practice. “The Corporations” are trying to hide the fact from the lay people that with most services, paid or free, you are not the customer, you are the product. Not sure where the difference is except in length (too many jokes to make here, so I won’t).
I don’t disagree that what you’re describing in some/many cases, but this aint one of those cases.
This wasn’t a “gotcha” hidden on page 77 of a confusing 100 page terms of service agreement. The subscription cost was clearly noted on the one page checkout summary in a simple 2-3 sentence section about billing details immediately next to the checkout button.
Again, what you are describing is real and not a good thing, but is entirely unrelated to the complaints of this article where the terms were clearly, simply and prominently communicated but ignored by the author in his haste.
It IS an American site…maybe he needs to stand on his head to read it properly?
To be fair, Lewin is from a country with more stringent consumer protection laws. It’s obvious to you and I because we’re used to dealing with deceptive business practices like this.
That is a valid point.
RIP AND TEAR UNTIL IT IS DONE
Same deal with those low-price pen companies. They have a bill later option that is far easier than the difficult payment process at the time of purchase. But they never send you a bill. Then, they hit you with extraordinary late fees. Plenty of scammers still active out there.
First…as a proud American…avoid anything “Florida.” It’s likely to be under water in 20 years anyway because of that “fake news” climate change business anyway.
Second…someone barely beat me to it, but I was about to mention the 12 free cassette tapes or CDs, depending on how old you are (looking at you, Columbia House…)
Third…who in their right mind outside of a car reseller would be interested in a recurring charge and looking up multiple VINs on an ongoing monthly basis? And a reseller is likely to have a dealer license and other ways to look up VINs accordingly. THAT’S what makes this a scam…they aren’t actually selling you something, they are preying on your ignorance to “offer” something for which you have no need and purposefully obfuscating the facts and “Terms and Conditions.”
Fourth…VinWiki.
Fifth…I plead it.
Sixth…The founders…how stereotypical, but the honest truth is that everyone is trying to make a quick buck or a big splash, and then sell onto someone else for profit.
And finally…the fact that they have multiple web sites to offer the same service with a similar back end screams that they know EXACTLY what they are doing, and are trying to make sure that if one gets caught and brought down, they still have the means to continue the scam.
Bonus: I’ve seen ads for VinGuru before, and it looks like “reverse phone number lookup” sites…nothing but SCAM SCAM SCAM.
Yeah, they’re definitely prepped for the game of whack-a-mole. Kind of reminds me of the sites that posted people’s mug shots in perpetuity (conveniently stripped of any context like charges being dropped or the like). The same person was running a few of those and a few sites that would fight to get your information removed from the mug shot sites. Making money on providing “background checks” and on fighting itself for privacy. These scammers know no one will stop them and they know how to pull up stakes and move on to the next site.
A lot of THOSE were in Florida as well, as a few states (mostly in the South, of course) will make mug shots readily available…
…I believe mug shots should be confidential until resolution of the case with a guilty or no contest result. Posting mug shots makes the idea of “innocent until proven guilty” a joke…which it has been for minorities for years, but I digress…
I agree on all counts. Way too many people believe that anyone arrested must be guilty (unfortunately, they’re eligible to serve on juries), and offering those mug shots as a “background check” service is definitely catering to those people.
Columbia House was great if you are into classical music. I collected boxes of Deutsche Grammophone and Sony Classical recordings for very little money.
The really shitty thing is that it’s playing whack-a-mole to try to take them down. Even if this one goes down, the same person will have a new website/company up and running by close of business. Not that they’ll likely need to even do that, since, as others have mentioned, Florida’s AG isn’t likely to pursue them.
As others have said, burner card numbers or prepaid credit cards are good protection when dealing with an unknown site (really, even when dealing with a known site).
This is also a good reminder that being in a rush can cost you time and money. Always double-check everything you’re getting into, because it’s going to take more time to deal with the problems caused by rushing.
Sorry this happened to you, though.
You didn’t even get 12 free CDs? This late stage capitalism is bullshit.
You get them but they’re not the bands you chose.
“Man Doesn’t Read Fine Print” is not a catchy headline.
Yeah, you can blame Lewin all day long, and I’m sure he blames himself for not catching it, but the way it’s presented is meant to catch people out like this. There’s literally no other reason for doing it that way. Even if you want to excuse them for this, how about all the times they charge people who actually did cancel? Definitely the hallmark of a reputable company. Rolling my effing eyes.
Yeah, I read those. One of the people got a response from the company saying it was a mistake and to contact them and they will fix it. I bet others that cancelled within the 3 days can also get their money back.
The print isn’t even all that fine.
I was going to buy a report from this company a few weeks and didn’t because I read the three sentences immediately below where you enter credit card information.
This company is clearly trying to take advantage of people who don’t read the fine print, but on some level people need to read the fine print.
Sheryl will probably chime in later, but a state Attorney General isn’t exactly the person many think they are. What I mean by this is that people will contact their state AG after having a bad experience with a dealership or a plumber and expect the AG to do something about it. I mean, they are the state’s highest attorney, after all. The thing is, the AG is unlikely to chase after a dealership or a website. They tend to go after big deals that generate headlines.
For example, AG Moody in this story likes going after the Affordable Care Act, keeping weed criminalized, and other big-ticket political items. She’s unlikely to care about a website that likes taking money from unsuspecting people.
Lewin gets a pass, of course, since he isn’t an American. 🙂
Yep, State’s AG is just a political stepping stone
Any state official in Florida is suspect by definition.
The best invention ever is burner credit card numbers, which you can use once for free trials or these kind of things, and don’t allow recurring charges back to your actual card. My Visa allows you to request them whenever you need.
Didn’t know this was a thing. Thanks for the heads up!
Thanks to you and others for pointing this out. I have always viewed those as just a way for the credit card company to limit its own exposure to fraudulent charges, but clearly they help avoid a lot of hassle.
I’m a big fan of them. I even pay some regular bills from companies I know are reputable via virtual account/card numbers. If there’s ever some sort of data breach, it’s a lot easier to cancel one recurring payment than go through the hassle of replacing a card or, worse yet, getting a checking account number changed. I’ve had to do both, though it turned out that Chase may have just made a mistake when I thought my checking account was compromised. I wasn’t willing to take a risk, though.
I’ve used gift card visas for the same purpose. Every so often I wind up with one and I keep it around for random “input your credit card number for this free trial” sites.
Yup, exactly.
If he had used a virtual card number with the max transaction limit set to $5, then all set.
Bonus points for setting the expiration date for the following month.
Ugh, this behavior used to be relegated to penis enhancement pills because they assumed people would be too embarrassed to complain. Now everyone just hides their crappy terms in tiny print or a 200 page terms of service document. Then, if you do see it and try to cancel, they still charge you and claim it’s an error if you can document that you did everything right. Thanks for calling this out publicly and I’m sorry you got screwed.
This man speaks from experience!
Hey, my pickup is bigger than yours, so there’s that… 🙂
My Maverick is likely smaller. Wait, what…
LOL, doh, I do have a small pick-up. I guess the pills worked…
The more of those (very effective) enhancement pills that I take, the more my pickup truck shrinks. It’s very strange, but also rather satisfying.
A few more pills and the state will revoke the registration.
Somewhat related: Years ago I had a gym membership I was trying to cancel. I was following their process of giving a months notice and all that, but they wouldn’t respond to any of my attempts to follow up. Figuring I was going to be charged for another month, I changed my payment method over to a prepaid card that had less than the needed amount on it.
Sure enough I got an automated notification that they tried to charge my card but couldn’t. It continued for 3 months before they apparently caught up to my cancel request.
Doesn’t really fit your experience, but I purposefully keep a prepaid card around now in case I need to do something like that again.
I’d highly recommend services like Revolut that allow you to create one-time-use credit cars and cards with individual charge limits to block shady transactions like these. They offer a good amount of protection for very little in fees. I’ve used it myself for free trials for things like Peacock Plus where you have to enter credit details for a free trial. Just set your transaction limit to less than the monthly, they’ll do a holding charge then disable the subscription as soon as the card declines.
…and they only charge $1.00 if you cancel within 3 days 😉 j/k.
So, something that I do to avoid this sort of situation (or just general online weirdness) is to buy a cash card that I keep, like, $10 bucks on. That way I can sign up, get access to the thing that I need, but then if I forget to cancel, or if there are hidden fees, they essentially can’t be charged to the card.
Sorry Lewin, you aren’t getting your 75 dollarydoos back. There are no laws in Florida.
“During her tenure as Florida attorney general, Moody has supported lawsuits to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, advocated against restoration of voting rights for former felons, and opposed the legalization of recreational marijuana. Moody was a significant surrogate of then-President Donald Trump in Florida during the 2020 presidential election, and joined in the Texas v. Pennsylvania lawsuit, which sought to overturn the results of the election.”
I believe we all know there are no shortage of culture war terms that, if included in any complaint to the Florida AG, would result in an immediate investigation and new state legislation within a week. Lewin could have his money back, the company shut down, and the owners thrown in jail if it creates the right political theater in Florida.
As it is, they may send la migra to Australia to have a little talk with Lewin.
Lewin needs to tell her these assholes have pride flags displayed in their windows. Dollar store Mussolini DeSantis will send the state troopers in to shut them down.
Never trust anyone that lives in Miami or Florida.
Hey now! Miami, I understand but not the rest of us. Now give me your credit card number so I can safely store it away for you. 😉
Thats why I have burner email accounts and use gift cards online a lot of the time. Too many of these shady companies that try to burn you.
Hell yeah, blast’em.
So you got a surprise charge for 50X more money than you expected, many days after you were done using a service?
Congrats, welcome to the American healthcare system!
It’s funny because it’s true. It’s also depressing, for the same reason.
JustAnswer did exactly the same thing to me! Avoid that site!