Electric vehicle depreciation is brutal, and it often hits people buying into new brands the hardest. Remember the Lucid Air that lost $199.80 per day in depreciation? Well, it’s not the only case. This 2023 VinFast VF 8 City Edition Plus cost its previous owner a whopping $12.70 per mile in depreciation alone, and to add insult to injury, they had to drive a VinFast.
Saying that VinFast experienced a tumultuous start in North America would be an understatement. Although the brand made a huge splash at the 2021 Los Angeles auto show, to the point where you’d almost expect VinFast to be America’s third-biggest automaker by show floor space alone, reality came crashing through the window pretty quickly.
First came delays, accompanied by changing business plans. A scheme to sell cars and lease battery packs quickly fell by the wayside while pricing adjustments made it difficult to find confidence in the company. At long last, in March of 2023, VinFast delivered its first U.S.-market cars, and well, things didn’t go so well. See, the first VinFast to launch in America was the VF8 City Edition, a midsize crossover with 191 to 207 miles of range. That’s not great.
Then came the reviews, which weren’t all that great. My own impression from a quick spin around an autocross course was that “VinFast’s first product may have just ended up being expensive and mediocre, a bit like Beats headphones or a Cartier watch.” Then the press launch happened, and it was a disaster. As the talented Emme Hall wrote for us:
The first thing I do when I sit in the new VinFast VF8 City Edition is attempt to lower my seat. I apply a bit of downward pressure on the lever and the plastic covering comes off in my hand. “Ah, crap,” I think as I snap it back on. “I broke the car.”
Then the car begins to chime. Loudly. It seems that all the automated driving assistance features are kaput and need servicing. Forward collision warning? Service Required. Blind-spot monitoring? Service Required. Rear cross traffic alert, traffic sign recognition, lane keeping assist? Service All, Y’all.
I haven’t even left the parking lot yet.
This would’ve been annoying if you could lease a VinFast VF8 for say, $2, but when this thing initially leased for $414 a month, that level of breakage on its moving debut just wasn’t it. Since then, VinFast has aggressively incentivized leasing, but it’s not quite enough to rebuild a reputation on.
So, here we stand, with a 2023 VinFast VF8 City Edition Plus up for sale in North Carolina for $28,888. When this thing was new, it carried an MSRP of $53,000, which means it depreciated a whopping $24,112 after being driven for just 1,898 miles. That works out to $12.70 a mile in depreciation alone, an absolutely herculean figure.
Perhaps even wilder, according to the Carfax, the first owner only purchased this thing fewer than five months ago, on March 26. That’s $24,112 of depreciation in 135 days, or $178.60 per day, or $7.44 per hour. Can you imagine burning $7.44 per hour on a car? I certainly couldn’t.
The craziest part? Even at $28,888, this used VinFast VF 8 still isn’t a great deal. You could buy a Tesla Model 3, a Ford Mustang Mach-E, or another EV from a selection of brands with larger servicing networks, better-performing products, and no stories of them taking legal action against their domestic customers for complaining about quality problems. Even though VinFast is still in business, a Fisker Ocean feels like a better buy than this VF 8, and that’s saying something.
(Photo credits: Autotrader Seller)
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“It seems that all the automated driving assistance features are kaput and need servicing. Forward collision warning? Service Required. Blind-spot monitoring? Service Required. Rear cross traffic alert, traffic sign recognition, lane keeping assist? Service All, Y’all.”
This is a big positive! No nannies!
Also, Vin Diesel needs to buy it and turn it into a…VIN diesel that’s FAST and Furious! Ha ha
Listen I might be waiting like 150 more days and go pick it up for free
I think this might be worse…
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/da6c03a6-de57-4c3d-81fb-6a48c1e0b7ff/
~$60K –> ~$15K in less than a year and 2000 miles….and these are actually pretty decent cars to drive if you can find fuel.
Similar deals with the Toyota Mirai.
“if you can find fuel.”
And that’s a very big ‘if’.
And that ‘if’ will get bigger over time as the situation has actually been getting worse apparently with station outages and companies pulling the plug on their hydrogen stations.
And then IF you can find fuel, will it be at a reasonable cost?
Doubtful.
Hydrogen vehicles have no future!
mmm Tempting, but, i thought the, battery might be … dead? Then I looked … its using hydrogen, so you need to live in exactly like one zipcode in california which is bloody expensive
Not quite that dire, but not far off it. I’d want multiple fuel stations within range just in case, but that still leaves Cupertino, Oakland, and the bulk of the LA metro (LA basin and San Fernando, but not Inland Empire). But no roadtrips, except between the two regions and even then only if you have a lot of trust in the one fill-up stop that exists between them. And the price per mile will be very high even compared to CA fuel and electricity prices. And
At least with an electric car, you can plug into a standard socket for a few hours in a pinch to limp to a charging station. Run out of hydrogen and your only option is a flatbed to the nearest station. Same deal with longevity – hydrogen stations may or may not be a thing in 10 years, but electrical outlets definitely will be.
I read the headline and thought maybe I would be able to pick one up for $8K or so. $29K does not seem a good deal at all.
V-alue
I-nto
N-egative
F
A
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So apparently “Vin” is the Vietnamese word for “depreciate”. Makes sense now.
Emme’s reporting on VinFast was excellent, but I will always remember the piece on Ye Olde German Lighting Site, in which Friend Of The Autopian Kevin Williams chronicles his minute-by-minute slow burn of a junket to Hanoi, capped with this statement to a VinFast functionary:
“I pulled aside VinFast’s U.S. public relations representative. ‘Baby, you gotta tell ‘em,’ I said. ‘This car ain’t ready.'”
Time to di di mau from Vinfast.
Depreciated Vietnamese Luxury
Today I learned that Cartier watches aren’t that great. Shame, I have a knock off that is ticking since the 80’s, I love it.
Ah, also VinFast is still around. Go figure…
Watchmaker here. I also don’t understand that reference… They take the jewelry angle, for sure. Still fine watches. Just like Rolex takes the marketing angle, and Breitling takes the money from rich old people who want you to know they like planes but secretly don’t know much about watches… angle. Nothing wrong with any of them as watches per se, they just prioritize things other than being watches.
Thank you for the clarification! I was also wondering about that dig
I own a couple of higher end Seiko watches. They cost a small fraction of what a Rolex costs but IMHO are just as good and maybe better
Hey, nice to hear that, I love watchmaking!
A while ago I found a channel in YouTube called “Wristwatch Revival” (which I totally recommend), and I was shocked when I found out that the best mechanical watch can’t really hold a candle to humble quartz watches in terms of precision – being a good timepiece hasn’t been a differentiator for a while now, as it turns out. It is only natural that they’ve pivoted to status to survive as watchmakers.
As for Rolexes, the of that channel talks a lot about them and their build quality, and indirectly, about the economy behind them. Turns out they used to be just really reliable and well built watches, but marketing exploded somewhere around the 60’s (or maybe 70’s), and now they are all but unobtanium to us mere mortals.
And, as for Cartier, it has a special place for us Brazilians, because of their connection with Santos Dumont. But I don’t think I’ve even ever seen one in real life, let alone hold it. I just like the history and the “must de Cartier logo”, and I went as far as to create a copy of my fake one for my smartwatch (actually I got the smartwatch in order to create that copy and retire the real watch from the perils of day to day life:-)
It’s true that the typical quartz watch will be more accurate than the typical mechanical watch. It’s also true that the atomic clock is more accurate than the most accurate quartz watch. My best friend built an experimental resonator (the part that actually tracks the passage of time) for the Atomic Clock at NIST that’s 10K X more accurate than the one currently in use, and that has since been superseded by another that’s multiple orders of magnitude more accurate still. These cutting edge clocks are accurate enough to measure relativistic time dilation at practical masses and speeds. But what of it for day to day life? How accurate do you actually need to be? For day to day use, a quality mechanical watch is all you need. You can get anywhere you need to be around town in a helicopter or a with a jetpack, but a car will get you anywhere you need to be when you need to be there in just as reasonable a time just as well.
It’s interesting to hear watchmakers referred to as anything related to status… Maybe you’re talking about watch manufacturers? Or a subset thereof more accurately? Actual watchmakers (people who repair and service watches) are a dying breed struggling to get by as they retire or (literally) die en masse, or hobbyists (like myself) with a masochistic bent. My own watchmaking style involves buying up cheap (~$5) mid-grade no-name watches on eBay, playing the mechanical puzzle game that is servicing the movement, then selling them for a minor profit to fund tools and more watches. If there’s anything status about a ’60s vintage (pause to peer through the scratched crystal of the watch sitting on the mouse pad in front of me) “Wilson”, maybe I’m cooler than I thought. Don’t tell my kids. I don’t know any professional watchmakers in real life, and I know one other hobbyist total in my metropolitan area. I’m sure there are more, but status boosting social club it isn’t.
Rolex (and others) relies heavily on marketing and artificial scarcity. They cut production and restrict part supplies to create an aura of scarcity, and thereby exclusivity. It’s illusory. A marketing strategy. One that completely turns me off. They’re good watches, nothing wrong with them. Nothing all that super special either. If someone gave me one to do with as I wished, I’d turn around and sell it to pay for something more interesting.
Watches and cars share a mechanical orientation. I view watchmaking in a very similar light. To me, they’re tiny engines that don’t get me greasier than I can stand to be on a typical weeknight. If I want to rebuild an engine, that’s a full weekend activity, and I’m going to need a shower afterward, or at least at the mid-point. And I don’t like working out in the barn when it’s cold. I can service a watch movement in an evening with a break for dinner in the dead of winter. Similar skillset, similar satisfaction.
What I meant about precision is that I was under the spell that mechanical watches were the best of the best in all objective measures, so it was a surprise to me that my knockout Cartier was more precise than the real thing. Of course, it doesn’t make it more valuable, but I was still surprised.
And I 100% mean “people that repair watches” when I gushed about “watchmakers”. The brands themselves for me aren’t anything that special, I see them exactly as you described Rolex. But the people that breathe life back at them? Always fascinated me, and I’ve always envied the craftsmanship.
I’m not sure if your kids appreciate your hobby, but know that a random stranger in the Internet does 🙂
LOL! My daughter is 4 and thinks I’m the smartest, coolest, and best at everythingest person alive. My son is a month and a half old, and only knows that I can’t make food (even that isn’t a sure thing). I meant it tongue in cheek. Fun to think someone out there thinks it’s cool though! Thanks for that! It’s a fun hobby, but VERY challenging. I’ve done a lot of things over the years, and watchmaking is for sure the most difficult.
Of the seven used Vinfasts on Auto Trader nationwide, four (including the subject) with fewer than 10,000 miles are listed by the same dealer, which is also a new Vinfast franchise, and one is listed by a Chevy dealer nearby for a similar amount. Since Vinfast announced construction of a plant nearby (but has now pushed the opening date to 2028, I wouldn’t be surprised if these are Vinfast’s corporate fleet cars. There’s one at Universal Mitsubishi in the Valley for $42,885 and one for a batshit-esque $49,987 at Carster in Huntington Beach, which the dealer says “IS ONE OF THE RAREST & UNIQUE ELECTRIC VEHICLE BETTER EQUIPPED THAN TESLA MODEL Y” [sic]. New models are all $54,000 and change.
“BETTER EQUIPPED THAN TESLA MODEL Y”
That’s not exactly a high praise. It’s like saying Motel 8 is better than Hanoi Hilton.
As if there aren’t other vehicles which depreciate 50% in the first year:
Case in point:
Maserati Ghibli
BMW 7 Series
Ford Excursion
Heck – Mercedes-AMG SLs are depreciating @ 10% before they are even sold.
The Ford Excursion did not and does not depreciate anything like luxury cars.
Good diesel ones still command near MSRP today, 20 years later.
I think you’re mistaken on the Ford Excursion.
I’m in NYC. I’ve seen more Veyrons (2) on the street than I’ve seen Ghibli (not plural.)
In a year or so these could be great ways to get the parts necessary for electric conversions. Buy one for $8,000 and get your money back by parting it out to the other owners who can’t buy the quickly breaking parts from Vinfast because they don’t have any OEM stock in the U.S. Then shove the drivetrain into a Chevrolet Cavalier or something.
That is, if there are any owners left to sell the parts to.
People who lease them to get Gov rebates? They should be on the hook for quite a while.
Worse come to worse, I would like to get a few battery pack for cheap for off grid power use. Right now 5kWh LFP is $1100 a rack retail. A VF8 has ~90kWh. Keep the battery pack and sell the rest of the parts, it is a net win.
Don’t do the math on motorcycle ownership… $7.44/hour seems low…
/cries in Ontario insurance rates
Which is insane, I’m familiar with canadian motorcycle insurance rates. It’s been 20+ years, but I remember being pulled over in Peterborough ontario in February. Ontario only lets you insure 9 months a year. Nothing the cop could do, stay safe, kid. My canadian buddies couldn’t believe I paid $90/year for insurance in New york
$1,400/year for an ’06 Kawasaki Vulcan & ’06 Honda VFR. Best rate I can find; lots of insurance companies won’t even insure motorcycles.
Ah well! At least the insurance goes all year round.
But that’s fun. Not a torture chamber. Pay to play.
Has anyone else been struggling as hard as I have to find the logic behind VinFast even selling here in the first place? They’re part of a giant company, someone there had to have some sort of premonition that it wasn’t going to go all that well
A new, untrusted brand, with mediocre product, that doesn’t do anything better than the established competition and is also expensive just seems like a bad combo, even without the build quality issues. It isn’t even like their styling is especially compelling
the owners massive ego would be my bet.
Love us or hate us, everybody wants to crack the U.S. market.
I’m sure people said the same thing when Hyundai entered the US market in the mid-80s.
Except they were cheap.
Hyundai had a competitive edge in being extremely cheap, yet more refine, than the other extremely cheap car (Yugo), they had a reason, there was a huge underserved demand for inexpensive cars that Yugo, Hyundai, VW Fox, Subaru Justy, etc all rushed to try and fill once it’s existence was established
I am struggling to understand what the unique selling points of VinFast are
I still remember a university classmate worked for Kia/Hyundai in the early 90s for the summer (the “fun” Sportage ad).. they need to spend a lot of time at the dealership fixing things like leaky windshields, crooked seats etc before they can sell them. Cheap yes, relatively refined maybe after a lot of finessing (which eats into the margin of the dealership).
Selling point of VinFast.. allow the owner to go IPO on 1% of the company. Remember the context, it was during the EV bubble when they made the move. I contend it is a quick get richer scheme for the owner.
I remember working at a Pontiac-Yugo-Olds dealer way back. We’d get shipments of Yugo parts. Cardboard sided pallets with all sorts of Yugo pieces dumped in, from entire exterior side panels to light bulbs. Good number of parts without any packaging or labels. We’d bend the body panels back into shape and take a best guess at what some of the parts were before slapping a part number on them. Some of the shipping invoices were in, I assume, Yugoslavian, so figuring out what they even thought they shipped us was nearly impossible without the handy dandy pocket translation book, which didn’t have much beyond common words.
Don’t know if it is related or a coincidence, but VinGroup had been shutting down other major divisions around the same time as they were really building up VinFast
Maybe “vin” is Vietnamese for “depreciate.”
It depreciates like vin in French, that’s for sure.
Giving the Germans a run for their money not only in mediocre EV’s, but depreciation too.