Outside of toys for the rich, it’s not a great time for sports cars right now. People don’t have tons of money and the status symbol of the day isn’t the garage-kept performance car, it’s the well-appointed crossover utility vehicle. Well, it seems that nobody told Toyota this. In a recent promotional video, the Japanese automaker teased the possibility of five new sports cars. Five! In today’s climate, that almost seems like madness, but you know very well that none of us are complaining.
At the same time, Ford is pausing F-150 Lightning production, Kia’s out here crushing it, and Mitsubishi has a plan to move forward but it might temporarily neglect one of its biggest sellers. Yeah, we still aren’t over the cancelation of the Mirage.
Matt’s out this morning, and I’ve been left in charge of The Morning Dump. So, grab a cup of coffee, sit back, and get ready to peruse some of this morning’s best bite-sized pieces of car news. Unlike a poppy seed bagel, you should be able to consume this article and still pass a drug test.
Sports Mind, Powered By Sports
Toyota recently dropped the strongest hint yet of what lies ahead for its sports car lineup, and it was given in an anime short. At about 47 seconds into season two, episode one of Toyota’s GRIP Anime Series, an animated whiteboard is shown with a bunch of text on it. From top to bottom, it reads “Supra Mk6, Celica Mk8, MR2 Mk4, GR86 Mk3, GR GT3.” Could Toyota be planning five new sports cars? Well, quite possibly.
See, the GR GT3 already seems to be in the works, and it actually makes some sense. The current Lexus RC won’t be in production forever, so its GT3 race car variant will eventually grow outmoded. At the same time, Toyota’s shown off a GT3 concept, photos of a vehicle that looks a lot like the concept testing at the Nurburgring are circulating the internet, and AutoGuide reported earlier this year that Toyota trademarked the nameplate ‘GR GT’. We’re calling that one highly plausible.
Regarding the third-generation GR86, we do know that the existing second-generation model is having some compliance issues in markets like Europe, and as such, currently can’t be sold worldwide. Considering the car’s appeal, a third-generation model sellable in Europe simply makes sense, especially if Toyota can push it out the door well before 2035.
As for the other rumored models, we’ve had hints and concepts in the past, but nothing official yet. However, Toyota has expressed desire to continue the Supra lineage after production of its current BMW Z4 sibling ends, Toyota’s shown off the electric FT-Se concept with mid-engined styling, and the Celica namedrops have been coming hot and heavy for years. Knowing Toyota’s typically serious and calculated product planning, this latest teaser is a letter of intent. While it’s too soon to guarantee five brand new sports cars, keep your eyes on the brand over the next few years. Things could get ridiculously fun.
Pause The Lightning
F-150 Lightning production is going offline for a full six weeks. The Dearborn plant’s line for electric pickup trucks is hitting pause on Nov. 18, and the idling is expected to last until Jan. 6, 2025. Needless to say, this isn’t great news, as it could affect hundreds of workers, so what went wrong? Well, according to Automotive News, Ford CEO Jim Farley reckons it’s general market forces:
Farley, on Ford’s Oct. 28 third-quarter earnings call, cited the “slow uptake of EVs” as a challenge but said he was pleased with the strength of Ford’s overall electric vehicle strategy, “which I wouldn’t trade for any of our competitors.”
While electric vehicle uptake outside of Tesla hasn’t been tremendous, it’s worth noting that product mix may play a role here too. A lot of people buy pickup trucks specifically for edge cases, so it wouldn’t be surprising if these same people are quite concerned about potential edge cases involving an electric truck. On the plus side, Ford is working on an electric midsize truck due 2027, but it did recently take a $1 billion hit for terminating large electric SUV plans early. It kinda feels like every automaker is simply trying to figure it out on the fly.
Kia Kicked Ass In October
The first of the auto industry’s October sales reports are out, and Kia just had its best October ever by volume, moving 68,908 cars in America during a time when much of the car industry’s seeing mounting inventory. Earlier this month, Cox Automotive reporting 25 percent more cars on lots at the start of October compared to the same time last year, which meant a somewhat slow month was expected. So what made Kia appealing? Surely it’s not just a matter of incentives, right?
Well, this record owes a certain gratitude to small cars. The start of K4 deliveries combined with Fortes still being available on lots meant that Kia moved 12,858 compact sedans last month, some 3,465 more than it did in Oct. 2023.
At the same time, the Sportage compact crossover moved 2,628 units more than it did in Oct. 2023, and the Carnival minivan is another big winner with 4,909 sold, up 1,402 units compared to Oct. 2023 and outselling the EV6 and EV9 combined. Oh, and Sorento midsize crossover sales are up 1,453 units compared to Oct. 2023. Care to guess what these three models have in common? That’s right, you can get them all with hybrid powertrains. Kia claims that hybrid and plug-in hybrid sales are up 49 percent and 65 percent respectively, which makes sense, since hybrids are efficient and consumers generally like to save a buck here and there on fuel costs.
Mitsubishi Has Plans For Everything Except For What It’s Really Good At Right Now
After what’s felt like years of relative product starvation, Mitsubishi has announced that a new compact crossover is coming for the European market soon, leveraging the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi alliance to make it happen on the relative cheap. As per Automotive News:
It is the fourth model that Renault will build for Mitsubishi in Europe, after the ASX small SUV (based on the Renault Captur), the Colt small car (based on the Renault Clio) and a previously announced compact full-electric SUV.
The new combustion-powered compact SUV will have both gasoline and full-hybrid drivetrains, Mitsubishi said on Oct. 28. The additional SUV will be launched in 2025.
This news of yet more rebranded Renault models comes months after future plans for North America were detailed, with Mitsubishi expecting “two all-new vehicles to debut into segments in which the company does not currently compete, as well as a new or completely refreshed vehicle to debut each year between fiscal 2026 and fiscal 2030.”
While a thoroughly revamped lineup is well overdue and Automotive News reports that the new ASX subcompact crossover and Colt subcompact have clocked 14,000 European sales through September, the best-selling Mitsubishi in Europe is still the Mirage, shifting 19,580 units year-to-date in that market.
While the best-selling Mitsubishi in America is the Outlander crossover, the Mirage is its second-best by a country mile, and that presents a bit of a problem because the Mirage is dying at the end of this year. Tens of thousands of people each year just want a cheap, efficient, uncomplicated car with a warranty, and with the Nissan Versa expected to be discontinued after 2025, one automaker could end up owning the entire pie. If I were Mitsubishi, I’d look at what’s needed to homologate a rebadged Dacia Sandero. If a business case exists for the cheap hatchback, it might be something worth pursuing.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Oh hey, new LCD Soundsystem just dropped. Called “x-ray eyes,” this funky cut of bloopy synths and a bouncy grooveline is our first sign of LCD Soundsystem’s upcoming fifth studio album, and James Murphy stated that “when we’re not playing shows, it’s getting closer and closer to completion.” It’s been seven years since American Dream dropped and yeah, even though this track doesn’t immediately hit like some prior singles, it’s a groovy slow-burn that was fun to wake up to.
The Big Question
Let’s say Toyota does make these five new sports cars happen. Would you vote with your wallet?
(Photo credits: Toyota, Ford, Kia, Mitsubishi)
C8!
I don’t understand automakers. Why would you kill a model that is selling well without having a replacement ready? At worst, keep selling the old one. The tooling has to be paid for at this point.
I guess maybe the answer is this is how you end up being a disaster of an automaker like Mitsubishi or Stellantis
Don’t know if it is the case of the Mitsubishi, but regulations can also play a part. For example Porsche had to discontinue the Macan because it didn’t comply with some sort of EU cybersecurity laws, but purely in economic terms I doubt they wanted to.
If Akio gets his way Toyota is gonna ride the sports car all the way into the sunset of the combustion engine.
He might…but the problem was the lost support of the shareholders during the scandal…this year.
If Mark Reuss ALSO got his way, the 9th and 10th and even the 11th generation Corvettes and 6th and 7th gen pickups/SUVs will ALSO have ICE engines. WHY do I think that is case? The EVs are simply not selling well…..
I’d give the next GR86 serious consideration if it has a Toyota engine. I’d own the current model already but for the Subaru situation.
The Subaru Situation sounds like the name of a lesbian punk band.
Yup. That’s the same with the 86 and the supra. Give them Toyota engines (or even better, come out with a Celica that is fun and has a Toyota engine/6MT) and you’ve got my attention. Not all that interested in a Subaru engine, and just the idea of buying a BMW engine is a hard no.
Wasn’t the SF-R going to be a thing? It looks like an angry pokemon, and I really wish it would be a thing.
My guess is that will be the Celica if it’s actually happening.
I bought a Toyota sports car, though it’s really almost all Subaru and I would be suspicious of a sports car that was all Toyota. Even their old sports cars people talk about today weren’t great compared to their competitors, it’s just that any 30 year old car seems analog and involved compared to today’s isolated cruise ships. Their history is one of mediocre chassis tuning, lack of feel from the controls, and limp clutch pedals. Great durability, but I don’t want a Corolla in a nice shell for a sports car. What I like about the GR86 is that the chassis feel reminds of my ’90 Legacy, even if it’s not as communicative in the controls. I haven’t driven the newer Subarus, but the terrible clutch pedal felt very much like the Toyotas of old, though a simple change to the pedal spring solved that problem. They also tuned the throttle terribly and I hear Subaru’s tuning on the BRZ is much more linear (though I haven’t driven it myself). But for all that, I’d definitely be willing to give them a test drive if I was interested and see if they learned a few things.
The MR2 follows none of what you said. They didn’t really have any direct competition, but the narrative on those has always been that they have an excellent chassis, steering, and feel. The Celica sure was a sporty Corolla for a while, but that’s not all Toyotas.
The MR2 was known for snap oversteer. Though I didn’t drive one hard enough to find out, I wasn’t all that impressed with the communication. Not a shit car by any means and great looking, I just don’t remember the feel being all that great, but that was also back in the ’90s, so I would have been comparing it to contemporaries. Stacked against today’s cars, I might feel differently.
This is quality that plagues most mid-engined / rear engined cars so…
Yeah, it’s one thing I don’t like about them as a car for me even if some of my favorite designs are mids. My interest is tactical driving, not racing, and the lower polar moment of inertia of mid engines is a negative trait there. I haven’t done any hard driving in a mid engine, so I can only go by what I read in that regard, but I don’t see any reason that would be wrong. Also, lousy storage and generally more difficult servicing. Slightly better if you’re being shot at from behind, I suppose, as the engine would do a better job of stopping/deflecting bullets than a couple layers of sheet metal, though only for a short time.
I own a mid engine car and I have to say you hit all the right notes about mid engined cars.
Personally a little bit less efectiveness is a good trade off for better performance accessibility.
(And having said that, my mid engined car is not an specially aggresive one)
Early mk2 MR2s had horrible snap oversteer, but that was fixed a couple of years after production started. I had a ‘92 and found it quite a predictable thing to slide around. The steering was fantastic once I’d put some sticky tyres on it.
I also had two mk1’s, which were both hilarious to slide around in. Much lower grip levels than the mk2, but no nasty surprises when you ran out of grip at either end.
I had a mk3 as well. It snowed for the first two weeks I had it so the combination of mid-engined traction, low speeds and a LSD was hilarious. When the snow stopped it was disappointing. I tracked it a bit and it was ok, but no mk1.
Depends on the timing, but yeah, assuming these are nowhere near production ready (I’m not ready to buy a toy/less practical commuter for a few years yet), I’d willing to plunk some cash down on a Toyota with some pizazz. Especially since you can count on it being either NA or a hybrid, instead of an EV (Toyota after all).
Obviously an MR2 is what I’m hungry for, but I’m open to other semi-affordable formats as well.
Probably not. Toyota’s sporty cars never really interested me. I assume they are nice in a “slow car fast” way but that’s not really my thing.
The MR2 might be an exception just because I’ve always had interest in rear-mid layouts and it’s one of the few that I could theoretically afford. Probably wouldn’t buy one new, though.
After currently being on my first mid engine car I would say that in general, for the open road, I prefer a well designed front engined-rear wheel drive layout rather than mid engined-rear wheel drive layout.
The FR layout has almost the same agility with more predictability.
What is your mid engine car? I love both, but for different reasons. With that, I sold my Elise after a year, and kept my NA Miata for 3, and just bought another so I agree.
A110 GT. It drives superbly, but sometimes it can play tricks on you if you are not paying attention.
I also used to have an NC MX-5 (which I loved) and an M140i (which was a bit scary).
I would place the Mazda as the more balanced of the three. Surely the Alpine is more agile and possibly better handling. But if you are having a brisk drive in the countryside without giving it racing driver-levels of concentration or playing near the limit, the Mazda was more forgiving than the Alpine.
However, if you are really going for it, the Alpine is extremely rewarding. But I would probably trade it for a bit bigger safety net in the open road.
And who exactly is going to buy these sports coupes? I can count on one hand the amount of Supras and GR86 I’ve seen in the past month.
Me, if they put their own engines in them.
To me, basically the entire point of buying a Toyota is to have rock-solid reliability, an aim that is utterly defeated by buying engines from the likes of BMW and Subaru.
Though it’s not really a sports car, the GR Corolla is all Toyota and seems to be having some engine troubles (how many are really people money-shifting and trying to social media blackmail the company into covering them after denial or influencers trying to exaggerate stuff for clicks like many of the GR86’s engine failures turned out to be, IDK).
I have talked to several owners of those and they all absolutely love them. Yeah there have been a few well publicized issues, but I still think they are pretty solid overall. Plenty of tuners have put thousands of miles on 500hp versions. And I have never heard of issues with the GR Yaris either, though I don’t hear about that one as much in general due to it not being available here.
I believe that and while I’m not personally comfortable with that small 3 cylinder with that much power, I don’t suspect it’s a bad engine. I think it’s the same with the FA24D in the twins. There will always be some failures regardless of who makes an engine, but there’s a big difference between a junk engine with some Achilles’ heel engineering/manufacturing error that’s likely to fail and a few anomalies (that the manufacturer will tend to cover). I think a lot of the failures of these modern lower end performance or sports cars—especially with manuals—is the lower price makes them accessible to newer younger drivers who didn’t have anyone to learn from properly and older people who never owned anything interesting and both groups are used to appliance cars that require no thought (seriously, there are guys defending not checking the oil once in a while when their engines die from starvation, which is even more surprising to me as oil consumption is still a thing even with appliance cars, but maybe with more gentle use they tend to tolerate low oil better). Then, of course, there are influencers who may or may not also fit the former categories, but are definitely looking for anything they can blow out of proportion for engagement. While I understand the temptation of someone denied a $20k engine replacement on their new car to try to weasel it getting covered, it annoys me because it ends up giving these cars a false bad reputation, which means fewer sales, which means we get fewer interesting cars to buy in the future, especially when they aren’t big money makers in the first place.
Toyota isn’t exactly knocking it out of the park re: engine reliability these days.
I’ve seen some anecdotes recently, but I still compare that to both personal experience with the brand and 40+ years of data.
If they give me reason to doubt them going forward, I will take that into account. For now, I’m not there yet.
I mean, it’s not anecdotal: Toyota is recalling the Tundra and LX due to a machining error that is grenading engines.
The bad news is that it is NOT over yet. MY24s have problems as well (yes, some reports after the build date are there), and the engines cost 25k+ to repair as well. These are NOT the Toyotas of old…
The Tundra and the Tacoma DO NOT have rock solid reliability, and the 3.5 V6 TT will never have the same durability as a 2UZ V8….judging from how complex it is…25k+ to replace an engine is NOT cheap…
I see quite a few Supras and 86/BRZs. I can say I’ve only seen a handful of GR Corollas though. Thought I’d see more around here.
Still have see more GR Corollas than new Nissan Z’s though. Apparently all the Nissan Z’s are going into a museum somewhere.
Come on GR Crown Signia. There’d be dozens of buyers.
Taking a stroll down Pedantry Lane, that’s really one new sports car and 4 updated ones right?
I have money on the new Celica being a GR’d Corolla Cross.
Oh please no. The Celica being a 4 door crossover would be awful.
Yes, yes it would.
Mister Dos if it’s Sarah approved.
GR GT might compete with the Corvette ZR1….or the Zora..
I can’t wait to see what companies Toyota sources all their engines from this time!
*opens hood on Christmas morning*
Aww man, it’s a Stellantis
Knowing Stellantis, they probably have a warehouse of unused Hemi blocks they overproduced before deciding to stop 300/Charger/Challenger production.
I wouldn’t be mad at a Toyota with the 6.4. I trust it more than a lot of the new turbo stuff Toyota has been releasing.
They have a van based on the Stellantis product in Europe….
I believe its name is the Proace Master.
I would rather take a used Chevrolet Express or a Long nose V6 Hiace over that van…the short nose one is not good in crashes…
After an MX-5, an M140i and an A110 I would definitely consider a Toyota sportscar as the next car.
Sandero as the new Mirage? Could work in Europe, but would spectacularly fail in the US. Not enough automatics or power or catering to American cars. In any case I doubt Renault would let Mitsubishi eat into one of their strongholds…
If I’m armchair vehicle developing for Toyota here’s what I would do. Take 2 of the 3 cylinder engines from the GR Corolla and put them end to end this would result in a 3.2l inline 6. Have it make about 500hp and call it something like the 3JZ. Then put this engine into the Supra.
I like this idea.
Toyota will slow roll the teasers and release some sort of spy shots in 2026 and will start production in 2032. By that time nobody will care. This was the pace with the current Supra.
No, it won’t happen before the mandatory self driving regs kick in, so I won’t buy any car with said self driving crap in it.
That being said from the list the MR2 is the coolest of the bunch provided they make it a cheap mid engine sports car like the original.
I’m sorry but i must have been sleeping for this announcement, but mandatory self driving regs? Nobody has even come close to figuring out “self driving.”
After Trump wins and installs Elmo as the head of the DOT and NHTSA, all cars will be mandated to include Tesla’s Full Self Driving murderware.
wow, rent free.
It’s 2 business days from election day. Musk is a huge donor and stage-presence for Trump. Trump has specifically said that Musk will have a spot in his administration.
I don’t think it’s very far out of left field to have him on the mind.
It’s under the guise of ‘anti drunk and impaired driving tech’. The car is supposed to be able to determine whether you are intoxicated and or impaired or not, slow down, pull over, stop, and cut the ignition all on it’s own. It passed with an overwhelming majority in congress, with Thomas Massie and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez being the main two congressmen opposing the legislation. It can kick in as soon as this month, but no later than 2026.
Here’s the full link to the Federal Register proposed rule (it passed as part of the 1 Trillion infrastructure bill): https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/01/05/2023-27665/advanced-impaired-driving-prevention-technology
*edit: Even with 99.9% accuracy it would still result in over 1 million false positives a day.
The thing you linked to is merely a data collection rule. It will not require any of the things that you mention.
It may be a precursor to an FMVSS that includes the things you mention but I don’t see anything more than just information gathering. Is there more that you are aware of?
It literally says what they want to do with the tech, and in order to do what they want to do it requires self driving tech.
It has to be able to immobilize the car when it detects someone is impaired and or drunk. How do you do that without some level of self driving while the vehicle is in motion without self driving tech?
Sure, you could cut the ignition, in the middle of driving, and hope the driver pulls off onto the shoulder, but that’s a lot of hoping.
To do it safely the vehicle would need to determine where the shoulder is, pull off to the shoulder without hitting anything or anyone, slow down, and fully immobilize.
The final rule is supposed to be issued by the 15th, and from there they want the tech in new cars within 2 to 3 years of the final rule.
I doubt Toyota will have a new MR2 in the next 2 to 3 years.
You are talking about the HALT act. The rulemaking can be extended out an additional 3 years. And in reality these types of things are delayed even more than that.
The only teeth in the act is that they will have to provide a report annually if they don’t meet the deadline. And there is a secondary requirement of a more detailed report required if nothing is enacted for 10 years. Which gives you some sense of how quickly these things actually move.
That sounds all sorts of stupid
I would be all over an Eclipse based on the Alpine A110. Or a Renault 5 that’s only lightly a Mitsubishi (something a la Chrysler TC by Maserati??)
I’d definitely consider it if there was a convertible variant of the 86 or MR2.
I voted with my wallet when I bought my Mk7.5 Golf Sportwagen 4Motion 6-Speed new, and I’d absolutely do it again should the product, price, and life circumstances work out with a new Toyota sports car. I’d need it to be a Miata fighter in every sense, but it would also largely depend on what the “NE” Miata looks like.
I’m going to say it and hope I’m proven wrong, but some of those could be coupe-like crossover vehicles that reuse old sports car names
That would never happen….
*visions of the Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross shimmers into view*
Mustang
I considered the Mustang, but the original still lives.
*for now*
With the rallying history behind, Celica is the most likely candidate. Although there’s already the C-HR there…
I’m still waiting for S-FR concept to become a reality.
Perhaps a Celica GT4 if it was some kind of Prius PHEV meets GR Yaris rally car mashup. Something decently fast but has all the suspension magic and still gets 40+ MPG.
Give me a hardtop/T-Top MR2 with flip up headlights and I’d be like Fry yelling “Take my money!”
I know the flip up headlights and T-tops won’t happen so me and my Duran Duran cassette will have to hope Toyota nails the design. I have my doubts it will stir my lizard brain.
A lightweight, ICE-only, Miata-fighting MR2 in the vein of the third gen one would be in my driveway.
No interest in an electrified, dumbed down one.
Maybe they join forces and create a shared platform for both brands? They already work together in different segments, this will make 100% sense for both, Toyota money + Mazda expertise.
Not sure Mazda has much experience with midengine stuff though.
If Toyota collaborated with them on the next 86 instead of Subaru, that might be neat.
(Puts on pedantic hat) Technically, the Miata is a “front mid-engine” configuration…
It’s gotta be priced similar to a Miata too. The rumors of it being an EV and like Porsche money would not work for me.
Those rumors would make no sense to me because then how could you justify a Supra and/or Lexus RC in the same price range?
The MR2 has to be cheap otherwise what is the point?
I think it makes sense, have the ICE, FR Supra, and then the EV MR2 with a rear weight bias, they would be different enough that I don’t see there being much internal competition
“The MR2 has to be cheap otherwise what is the point?”
ALL the profits!!!! Those golden parachutes don’t just come put of corporate bailouts you know.