The Inflation Reduction Act and its EV tax credit are among the most significant accomplishments (though not everyone is a fan) of President Biden’s single term in office and, most likely, they’ll be continued if Vice President Harris wins this November. What will happen if former President Trump is elected again? He’s indicated that he’s not so keen on the idea in an interview. He also said a lot of other things about EVs.
Ok, enough about politics… United Auto Workers President Shawn Fain spoke at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago last night. In his speech, he threatened a strike against Stellantis if the company didn’t meet certain timing in the reopening of the Belvedere plant in Illinois.
CDK Global, a company you didn’t think about until it got hit with a massive ransomware attack, is going to settle a $100 million lawsuit from dealers claiming it colluded with the competition to cause prices to go up. If a judge approves this lawsuit it’ll give the company more time to respond to all of its other lawsuits.
And, finally, the Pebble Beach auction market was a little soft this year.
Donald Trump’s Electric Car Evolution
It is well known that former President Donald Trump is a fan of Tesla CEO Elon Musk, and vice versa, with Trump calling Musk one of his biggest supporters. At the same time, President Trump has denigrated electric cars in the past.
Trump, it seems, has slowly come around to the idea of EVs. At least according to this Reuters interview from yesterday:
“I’m a big fan of electric cars, but I’m a fan of gasoline-propelled cars, and also hybrids and whatever else happens to come along.”
This was in response to a question about subsidies on electric cars, which President Trump is generally opposed to, saying “Tax credits and tax incentives are not generally a very good thing.” Changing the tax credits would likely require overturning them legislatively, which would probably require winning a large majority in both houses of Congress. Even if that doesn’t happen, a 2nd-term President Trump could encourage a reinterpretation of some rules that make it easier to get the $7,500 tax credit.
What’s interesting here is that Tesla benefits greatly from the EV Tax Credit, so removing it would make many of Musk’s cars more expensive.
That doesn’t mean Trump doesn’t like Musk. Quite the opposite, he said he’d consider making him an advisor or, even, a Cabinet Member:
“He’s a very smart guy. I certainly would, if he would do it, I certainly would. He’s a brilliant guy.”
Though Trump is generally combative with China, he’d be for incentivizing Chinese automakers to build locally in the United States. Since he’s against tax incentives, generally, I’m curious how that might work. Here’s what he said:
“We’re going to give incentives, and if China and other countries want to come here and sell the cars, they’re going to build plants here, and they’re going to hire our workers,” Trump said. “We will make our own cars. I want to make our own cars.”
Musk for Secretary of Labor. What a timeline we live in.
[Ed Note: We try to not to wade into politics here; this is a car website. But the truth is, the cars that end up on our streets are hugely shaped by politics (fuel economy regulations, crash test regulations, EV incentives, gasoline subsidies, etc.) — so sometimes it’s appropriate. -DT].
Shawn Fain Uses DNC Speech To Threaten Strike
Well, I suppose Anti-union Elon Musk as Secretary of Labor would make Shawn Fain and the UAW quite upset.
Fain spoke at the Democratic National Convention last night and did his usual “Donald Trump is a scab” routine. He also threatened to strike against Stellantis, which I think is a first for a nominating convention (unless Walter Reuther threatened to picket Packard in 1908).
“Let me be clear, Stellantis must keep the promises they made to America in our union contract. And the UAW will take whatever action necessary at Stellantis or any other corporation to stand up and hold corporate America accountable.”
What’s going on here? Let’s let The Detroit News explain:
Fain and the UAW have accused the automaker of failing to meet contractual timelines to reopen the Belvidere Assembly Plant in northwest Illinois. The union is preparing to file a series of grievances — and potentially go on strike — over its plans for the Belvidere plant.
They didn’t get a response, but Automotive News got a quote this morning:
“To ensure the Company’s future competitiveness and sustainability, which are necessary to preserve U.S. manufacturing jobs, it is critical that the business case for all investments is aligned with market conditions and our ability to accommodate a wide range of consumer demands,” the statement said.
“Therefore, the Company confirms it has notified the UAW that plans for Belvidere will be delayed, but firmly stands by its commitment. As always, the Company is committed to engaging with the Union on a productive, respectful and forward-looking dialogue.
Alright, enough politics.
CDK Global Agrees To Settle Anti-Trust Lawsuit
Dealer Management Software (DMS) company CDK Global, better known lately for its massive ransomware issue, is following up paying hundreds of millions of dollars to hackers by paying at least $100 million to settle a lawsuit from dealers who said it colluded with Reynolds & Reynolds, its competition, to drive up DMS costs.
The class-action lawsuit alleged, in part, CDK and Reynolds essentially formed a duopoly to corner the market for data integration service programs that extract information from dealership management systems that is then used by application vendors.
That’s not great. Reynolds already settled and it sounds like all the parties involved support the CDK offer of paying $100 million to avoid a trial.
Pebble Beach Auctions Were Soft This Year
One of the best parts of attending Pebble Beach every year is going to the many car auctions (Gooding & Co, Broad Arrow, RM, and Mecum) with our co-founder Beau. He’s a big dealer and car trader, so he knows more about what’s happening than anyone I’ve ever met.
While most people are drinking or noshing on kettle corn, Beau takes notes on the highest bid of almost every car that comes through the auctions when we’re there. I’ve been sitting at one auction with him while he’s tracking an auction across town on his phone.
The vibe he got early on was that the auctions were a little soft this year, with many vehicles not quite meeting their reserves. The vibe was confirmed by Hagerty, which said only $371 million cars actually sold, down from $469 million in 2022.
What’s going on? Our pal, Bloomberg‘s Hannah Elliott, is on top of it:
Insiders are characterizing the vibe as a temporary shift rather than an all-out bust; only small segments of the market are truly correcting downward and after-auction deals are already pushing final totals higher. Sell-through rates across five auction houses hit 71% as of Aug. 18, up from 69% last year, according to Hagerty.
“The most important takeaway from the sophisticated and highly intelligent long-term collector is simple—they didn’t buy or sell anything this weekend,” says Steve Serio, a longtime automotive broker for elite car enthusiasts. “They realize there will be opportunities for them [in future transactions] as they are patient.”
Think of it as corrective, not catastrophic, says Peter Brotman, an automotive agent who was buying and selling cars for international clients this week. He described many of the cars left unsold as having a case of “freezer burn.”
It’s true. A lot of the cars for sale had been listed in recent months and they gave it a try here and, well, that ain’t gonna work.
What I’m Listening To Today While Writing TMD
I forgot to turn on music this morning in the hotel room this morning, so let’s have Simon & Garfunkel’s “Sound of Silence.”
The Big Question
Are you a an of the EV Tax Credit? Why or why not?
I’m fine with the credits but don’t agree with the the prices of the vehicles you can buy. I think a $30 or $40k cap should be in place.
What I’m also not a fan of is the government assuming that $150k income in California is the same as in Missouri.
Listen, I’m not opposed to reporting about politics at all, but I don’t see a point in reporting what Trump “says.” He is a very angry, senile old man who barely knows how to string together a sentence at this point. He doesn’t know what he’s saying about the EV credit and it’s 50/50 whether a future Trump administration would keep or eliminate it, with the decision probably not being made by Trump because, again, he is senile and barely coherent.
The rhyming of history.
Late 90s leading up to the Segway release, there was an Enormous amount of hype about how revolutionary/trans formative it was going to be. South Park came out with a parody episode in which the consumer had to “submit” to the products considerable drawbacks. When the Segway did release, it was too expensive, too heavy, too impractical, and led to many injuries. Now we have cheap chinese hoverboards and the injuries are commonplace.
This is not to say EV bad, remarkable advancements have been made in battery tech. and objectively you can’t argue with the improved efficiency of an EV drive-train. The automotive products currently available both EV and ICE are asking consumers to “submit” to far too many drawbacks. I blame Elon for popularizing the “smart car” dystopian vision. Suspect that after he totaled his McLaren F1, he thought to himself, golly, if a stable genius such as myself could lose control of a vehicle with explosive acceleration, imagine the general populous. He thereafter has been on course to remove the driver from the situation, but keeps the driver liable for any accident, because the driver must remain hyper diligent to intercede should something go wrong. Jason has astutely pointed out that this is ass-backward, not how humans function! I am beyond disgusted that the whole industry is chasing this dystopian vision.
A democracy must have free speech. It is unfortunate that those with the largest megaphones tend to have dystopian views. But a democracy also must allow the quiet to have an equal vote. Please do your part.
The tax credit is dumb, because it’s just encouraging the sale of inefficient $55k SUVs. There’s no efficiency requirement, and the intersection of average transaction price and income limit is a very narrow overlap. I’m a firm believer in applying lessons learned rather than scrapping an idea just because it’s been an imperfect implementation. Give it a 2.0 refresh with more emphasis on efficiency, affordability, and toss in some PHEV support
Love the shout out to Sound of Silence. Great, great song. I’m also a fan of Disturbed’s version of it. Find that on YouTube if you’ve never heard it.
That version gets me in the feels
The Disturbed version is most excellent.
I’m not really a fan of the tax credit for a few reasons. First it basically moves the bar for car makers on making a ‘cheap’ ev up by $7500. So if someone is looking for a $25k EV, the automaker can sell one starting at $32,500 and not worry about making an actual cheap ev. Secondly this severely depreciates EVs as right out of the gate they lose $7,500 off the price of the car.
And lastly, and I guess it’s big for some people but the political angle, and to be fair that money’s coming from somewhere, if I was never interested in buying an EV, or even a car in general, why should my money be going to pay for other people to?
It’s a valid argument but can go down a rabbit hole of, I don’t have kids why am I paying for schools, I’ve never burned down my house why am I paying for fire dept, I’ve never been robbed why do I need to pay for police, etc. those are public services, EVs are a consumer good, but it’s a rabbit hole. And we let the oil companies drill in Alaska and pay farmers not to grow too much corn and such so there’s all kinds of craziness in where our taxes go.
I’m not a fan of tax credits in general. Special credits, deductions and other carve-outs serve only to complicate the tax code and encourage abuse. In my opinion, the purpose of the tax code should be solely to collect adequate funding for the government; it shouldn’t be a vehicle for social engineering. If a goal is worthy, associated programs should be funded separately and paid for with taxes.
I know, I know, our government can’t do things that way. It would require too much agreement, as well as additional bureaucracy, to implement anything.
I don’t like the tax credit for 2 main reasons:
1.) It keeps automakers from feeling the market forces driving greater demand for cheaper cars.
2.) Like how there is no gas tax for BEVs what the current strategy is is to get massive BEV adoption and then jack up the taxes, registration fees, charging fees, etc. after the fact. Which is basically the same thing all the boomers told us would happen with drugs and drug dealers giving us “free” drugs till we were hooked, except this will actually happen with BEVs.
I say charge what it costs and in doing so, cut the bullshit.
The EV tax credit as it currently stands enables some of the bad behaviour of manufacturers. They can throw a lease out for the full value and reel in money that way, or they can get the government to ensure a soft minimum of profit for each vehicle and make up for the limited times they get that minimum profit by increasing the minimum MSRP. It shouldn’t have lasted more than about four or five years as a short term shim to get us to broader adoption, but as usual the highly manipulated economics of the U.S. turned a temporary measure to help regular people into a continual revenue source for corporations.
Donnie from Queens always does interviews like a 19 year old interviewing for the shift supervisor spot of Arbys. He’ll just say whatever the vibe going to get that check. You could get that life long Yankee’s fan to call Fenway the best park in baseball for like 250k and a tweet that says he has nice eyes.
The real question here. Is he better looking than Harris?
Like he says.
What an emotional unstable turd he truly is.
I will say he’s better looking than most 78 year old men with every detriment to lifestyle possible. Most of them are about six feet underground though, competition ain’t exactly fierce.
I always wonder what he actually looks like under all the product wearing jeans and a tee. I suspect, much like any other 78 year old out of shape man.
Honestly, just the tweet…
His response to the suggestion of Pence as VP was “he says nice things about me” so a few nice tweets got him a heartbeat away from being president..
And from the gallos
Oh sure, nit pick…
I too would be a big fan of the industry that my wealthiest supporter made all his money in after he spent tens of billions of dollars to make me look better.
This version of the tax credit is generally a positive thing. Making us self sufficient in EV manufacturing is a good thing for the nation. Then nobody can cut us off from minerals on a whim.
Ending the tax credits for individuals while extending them to corporations is typical conservative trickle down voodoo economics. We’ve had 40 years’ experience with the wealthy building better buckets to keep more of the wealth. Enough. Stop peeing on my leg and telling me it’s rain.
The peeing on your leg is the trickle down!
I would prefer to see the tax credit rewritten to better encourage efficiency. Perhaps base it on mi/kWh or MPGe, rather than giving a Hummer EV a higher price limit for the credit than an Ioniq 6. You could also reward efficient gassers and hybrids.
No income limits. If you want to subsidize vehicles for lower incomes, that should be a separate subsidy, not tacked into an environmental credit. If you must have income limits, index them to cost of living for the zip code, county, or, at a minimum, state. New York, Nebraska, and Texas don’t all have the same cost of living or the same value for an income level.
And get rid of most of the manufacturing rules. If we have a free trade agreement with a country, they’re eligible. I’d be okay just applying it to all efficient vehicles, but it should absolutely apply to important trade partners.
If you want to subsidize US manufacturing/goods, do that separately. Leave it out of environmental regs, especially since everything has a global supply chain, so local manufacturing does not necessarily mean any reduction in shipping emissions. If you want to incentivize more efficient supply chains, there are other ways.
When you try to accomplish multiple (sometimes conflicting) goals with one tax policy, you make too many compromises and struggle with each of those goals.
Tax credits not only help the middle class to get a discount on something, they are focused for households to move forward with energy efficient things. Without the tax credit, I would probably not installed solar panels. Without the tax credit, I would probably not purchased an EV or replaced my furnace with a high efficiency unit. Same for my water heater.
I decided to help our carbon footprint somehow and our lifestyle hasn’t changed much, they are not just giving away money without a purpose.
This!
I want to do solar panels, but it is a bit overwhelming. Do you lease or is there an outright purchase? how do you know if it’s reputable when there seems to be too many different things and scams from supposed companies partnered with the providers.
where is just one reliable place for all of this information.
I would start at https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/. Beyond that I can only offer a little advice, as my installer went out of business, even though they had 20k plus installs in the state and seemed stable.
Know this:
Good luck, and I will be glad to help.
I appreciate this, thank you for the information
Additionally, because the batteries are somewhat new technology, seriously consider skipping the power bank for now.
-this comes from a neighbor’s solar installer and the one my sister & bil just signed with. They’re saying wait a few years and let the market & industry figure it out first.
-I’m not in the industry
Ack. Totally forgot about skipping the fire hazard in the garage. Yeah, it was totally unnecessary for me, as I have lost power for MAYBE 5 minutes in the 4 years I have been here.
Most use LFP now so its not a fire hazard anymore than anything else would be in your home.
My understanding was they were saying that the density & life would likely improve markedly in the next few years. When someone is trying to sell something, but tells you to wait on part of it, I tend to listen.
Density is improving but it will likely always be improving. Its like waiting for the new model car or computer. In my area subsidies are better with a battery than without.
https://www.energysage.com/
It’s like lending tree but for solar companies. I saved over $20k using them.
They use local screened businesses to quote you based on your roof. They won’t call you unless you want them too.
Don’t lease, and don’t pay large loan origination fees.
Do factor in future loads like EV’s and heat pump water heaters & A/C etc.
If you’re in California or anywhere that has poor feed in tariff’s consider a battery.
Make a list of questions before you vet / interview companies. ask the awkward questions.
Roof Guarantee?, Performance Guarantee?
Do not pay anything more than 10% upfront, then pay a further 10% on approved city permits, 35% on product delivery to your house and 35% after you are satisfied with the installation (This could be the same day as delivery) only pay the final 10% once the city and the electricity company gives you permission to operate the system.
I spent $23k after fed rebate in 2019 for 31 panels producing around 16,000 kWh. I added 5 more panels last year.
My wife and I both drive EV’s and keep our house at 74 / 75 degrees in Socal where will be 101 F today. our house is 6 bed just under 4000 sq ft and our electricity is $0 – in fact we get credits back from S.C.E. So Cal Edison if you’re not local.
thank you for this, boy am I glad I decided to make my slightly desperate comment lol
You are very welcome. I’m glad to be of help. Please feel free to reach out anytime regarding solar, especially if you’re in the SoCal market with SCE as your provider.
I personally believe that everyone should go solar if they have a roof that is theirs. Even if that means borrowing the money as the savings should mean a return on investment of around 7 / 8 years, then you’re getting close to free power.
I am in texas and I know that I have good roof space at good angles for solar, I’ve had some people come check it out, just some things have been hard to parse about it.
these comments have gotten me some great information.
With the extreme cold weather event a few years back I’d be more tempted to get a battery system provided it is LFP based chemistry, although the costs are high.
Of course you could ask the installer to add a “Natures Generator” transfer switch and feed critical circuits from an EV with V2L or V2G like the Koreans Ioniq 5/6 & EV6 of some Ford Lightnings and probably others too now. It’s a $400 part.
https://naturesgenerator.com/collections/natures-generator-transfer-switch/products/natures-generator-12-circuits-120-240v-30a-non-automatic-power-transfer-switch
https://youtu.be/jJ2bQkx9P6Q
I think Enphase also has mirco invertors that create a ‘mirco grid’ as stay powered during the day
that is a valid concern for sure, surprisingly, and sorta depressingly, as bad as the cold weather has gotten, my power/gas never went out and I have a suspicion that it was because I happen to be nearby some very expensive houses…
Donald Trump says a lot of things. How many of those things are true?
I’d be surprised if even his truthiness exceeded 25%, much less the actual truth.
We live in a world where truthiness is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. What seems truthful to your average Mike Lindell or Alex Jones acolyte is way different than what seems truthful to your average CNN listener. We’re all spending too much time in our own favorite echo chambers.
What’s “CNN”? Something old, antiquated, and obsolete?
According to Desi Lydic of The Daily Show, it stands for “Clinton News Network”. At least when she’s doing one of her Foxsplain bits.
The tax credit is stupid. When electric cars are better people will buy them. Did we offer tax credits to encourage people to go from horses to cars?
They didn’t have to because cars smelled a lot better than horses.
Oh, wait…
I am pro EV tax credit even though now that I feel like I could comfortably afford one I apparently make too much money to take advantage.
Even if you lease? You can always buy it outright if you don’t want to lease it long term
I believe the lease loophole could be taken advantage of, but these things depreciate so hard I’d rather buy used than knock $7,500 off. Also leasing just feels weird to me. I’d rather just own the thing.
You could lease it then buy it out before the first 30 days is up. The dealership won’t like it but ah well.
Great job here Matt. Thanks.
Opens article with Trump’s lies and bullshit. “Nothing but ignorant noise here people, move along please.” Turdman and Elon deserve each other. Hard to find two better examples of grade a douche bags, both of whom seem to be basically ignorant fools.
Ends with Sounds of Silence…I see what you did there.
Thanks DT. Politics has been a part of life before history was recorded. “You need to be on my side, otherwise we can’t be strong enough to abuse the basic rights of others.” And impose our will on them, right or wrong.
To be frank.
IDGAF what some folks say. Car site, yes…Politics, yes a bit should be allowed.
Freedom of speech and all that folks.
The right to speak is our first amendment. Get over it, folks…
I am for continuing the EV tax credit only because it makes the cost more affordable for the consumer, despite being paid for by tax dollars in the end.Shit is too expensive. Everyone deserves a break, especially if the main intent is to get us off fossil fuels, and help the environment…Fight me.
Thanks Matt.
I’m not a fan of the EV tax credits as written. I would like to see them go away. The income limits and criteria for which vehicles qualify seem arbitrary. If the tax credit is intended to help consumers transition away from ICE vehicles for climate reasons, why have these exclusions? If the goal is to get Americans to buy American made vehicles, why not offer tax credits for regular hybrids or efficient ICE vehicles built in America? Also, why does the tax credit have different price caps for sedans and trucks/SUVs? Electric trucks and SUVs are used for the same purposes as sedans/hatchbacks/wagons; it is bizarre to encourage people to buy less efficient EV trucks/SUVs over sedans.
I worry that the exclusions and limitations drive some buyers away from EVs. As someone who does not qualify for any of the tax credits, I genuinely don’t know what price I will have to pay for a vehicle. I don’t know which advertised prices include tax credits and which don’t. This is particularly bad in the used EV market. I’m also not okay with the idea of paying $7500 more for a car than most buyers. That alone has factored in my decision to not consider a new EV (I’m not the only one who has made this decision). I don’t want a car that loses 10+% of its value purely because I can’t get a tax credit.
I don’t necessarily object to tax credits for EVs, but the way this tax credit has been implemented is truly terrible. I hate to agree with trump on anything, but the current EV tax credits suck and should be eliminated. It is creating unnecessary market distortions, creates disincentives for some buyers, costs the government incredible amounts of money in lost tax revenue, and it is not even clear the tax credit is actually increasing EV adoption.
good points made. Thanks
You want to get rid of the income cap, how about the other end as well – make the credit refundable, or at least be able to spread it over 5 years. Lots of people on the lower end can only use it if they lease.
That’s a valid point. I wouldn’t object to making the credit refundable or spread out over a few years.
The tax credit should definitely be ended. All it is doing is subsidizing overpriced bloatware vehicles. Th legacy automakers COULD give us their own sub-$20k version of a BYD Seagull, made with 1st world labor and quality components, 25 years ago, if they really wanted to. And if they refuse, BYD should be let in to disrupt some shit and light a fire under their ass.
“If you suck up to me I’ll like you.”- Trump’s entire life
That’s pretty much it. He’s a simple man. Old guy that loves a good ass kissing. Second only to money.
Likes to be smacked on the fat ass with a magazine by a porn star.
Like to have Russian hookers piss on him.
Sounds like a great guy. lol.
Donnie loves his daughter very much.
That ONE daughter.
Literally, if the rumors are true.
“Until it benefits me to throw you under the bus at some point in the future.”
Total Trumpster fire.
“I am for whatever the Democrats are against. Unless you are for it. In which case, I am also for it. Until tomorrow when I will again be against what they are for and against. But I am also against those things that you may or may not be against, depending on whether I want to be for or against you. That’s what smart people do. They are for and against things. Sometimes at the same time. But also at different times. It takes a very smart person to do that. Which I am. Smart. Very smart.”
Dazzlingly smart.
A very stable genius.
Bigly.
And then drop em like it’s hot when they’re no longer beneficial to him or when they hurt his petty feelings. I’m utterly amazed that people are still gargling his balls after seeing so many other people kicked to the curb.
Let’s not forget how Trump vowed to end the EV mandate day one he took office and how EVs didn’t work at the beginning of his 24 campaign. Then magically after Elon started donating 45 million a month to Trump’s PAC he became an EV supporter, saying he owed it to Elon after such big donations.
Not the first time of quid pro quo for Trump but perhaps one of the most blatant.
Regardless of how someone feels about trump, quid pro quo is always assumed and it’s refreshing that he’s honest about it. No one else is
That still doesn’t make it ok.
HAHAHAHAHAHA that’s a good one. “Trump” and “honest” in the same sentence.
You’re a funny guy!
That could be said for virtually all US politicians, even down to the most petty and local level.
The USA today is more like Nigeria than it is different from Nigeria. Consider the implications of this, extrapolate into the future, and despair.
I’m not sure it’s possible for EVERY politician to be a liar. I think it makes more sense to judge each one individually based on the truthfulness of what they’ve said.
If you did such an analysis, you might find more politicians are telling the truth than you thought. Turns out there are people online who CLAIM people are lying but fail to provide evidence.
I consider Dennis Kucinich, Rand/Ron Paul, Thomas Massie, Tulsi Gabbard, to be among the least dishonest ones.
But honesty does NOT pay in modern politics. They’re human after all, and therefore they are primarily looking out for their own self interest, and not yours or mine or anyone else’s. Non of them will ever be perfect. Which is why I don’t want them making decisions for me.
Disagree on the Pauls. Anyone from the moochiest state in the Union has no right to call himself a libertarian.
None of those people you mentioned has held office for a very long time.
Oh, Rand Paul still exists?
Just for fun list a politician that hasn’t lied.
I suspect there’s loads on both sides that we don’t know about because they don’t do anything considered newsworthy by todays churnalism click chasing media
Answering that question with any level of certainty would require a tremendous amount of work.
Even old men can be a whore.
What is sad is that Elon’s EVs are the longest lasting available on the market. It should be easy to build better vehicles, mostly by removing the tech bloat and making mission critical components accessible to repairs.
Instead, the legacy manufacturers are copying Tesla, and can’t do what they do nearly as well. And their products suck because of that.
Hobbyist built EVs, done right, have the best combination of reliability, reparability, and longevity. OEM EVs should be built in a similar manner: make the damned things repairable with basic tools, with user-programmable plug and play components everywhere electronics are needed. Do this, and EV longevity and operating cost will put virtually any ICE to shame.
Unrepairable is a feature; you’ll be back for a new car sooner. The arrow continues up to the right into infinity and beyond.
If they want to end the EV tax credit end the gasoline subsidies too!
Holy Fudge! Globally that’s $7 Trillion a year.
https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion
Oh I’m all torn up over all this talk about ending the tax credits…
On one hand, it would basically nullify the Musk business model in the USA, which I like because he’s a sack of shit
On the other hand, it was suggested by an even bigger sack of shit, so it may be a terrible idea.
Suggesting he would make Elon a cabinet member is idiotic, which I like, because it makes DJT even more unelectable ….
But if, by chance or theft, he wins, we’re fucked even harder…which I oppose as it’s not a feeling I enjoy (in this context)
How many of you out there have heard of alternative engines? Engines that can run on anything from alcohol to garbage or water? Or carburetors that can get hundreds of miles to the gallon? Or electric or magnetic engines that can practically run forever?
You don’t know about them because if they were to come into use, they’d put the oil companies out of business. The concept of the internal combustion engine has been obsolete for over fifty years. But because of the oil cartels and corrupt government regulations we, and the rest of the world, have been forced to use gasoline for over a hundred years.
Big business is primarily responsible for destroying the water we drink, the air we breathe and the food we eat. They have no care for the world they destroy. Only for the money they make in the process. How many oil spills can we endure? Millions and millions of gallons of oil are now destroying the oceans and the many forms of life it supports. Among these is plankton, which supplies 60 to 90 percent of the earth’s oxygen, which supports the entire marine eco-system which forms the basis of our planet’s food supplies. But the plankton is dying.
I thought well, let’s go to some remote state or country, anywhere on earth. But in doing a little research, I realized that these people broker toxic waste all over the world. They basically control the legislation, and in fact they control the law. The law says no company can be fined over $25,000 a day. If a company’s making $10 million a day by dumping lethal toxic waste into the ocean, it’s only good business to continue doing this.
They influence the media so that they can control our minds. They’ve made it a crime to speak out for ourselves. And if we do so, we’re called conspiracy nuts and we’re laughed at. We’re angry because we’re all being chemically and genetically damaged, and we don’t even realize it. Unfortunately, this will affect our children. We go to work each day and right under our noses we see our car and the car in front of us spewing noxious and poisonous gasses that are all accumulative poisons. These poisons kill us slowly, even when we see no effect.
How many of us would have believed if we were told 20 years ago that on a certain day we wouldn’t be able to see 50 feet in front of us? That we wouldn’t be able to take a deep breath because the air would be a mass of poisonous gas? That we wouldn’t be able to drink out of our faucets, that we’d have to buy water out of bottles? The most common and God given rights have been taken away from us. Unfortunately, the reality of our lives is so grim nobody wants to hear it.
Now I have been asked what we can do. I think we need a responsible body of people that can actually represent us rather than big business. This body of people must not allow the introduction of anything into our environment that is not absolutely biodegradable or able to be chemically neutralized upon production. And finally, as long as there’s profit to be made from the polluting our earth, companies and individuals will continue to do what they want. We have to force these companies to operate safely and responsibly, and with all our best interests in mind, so that when they don’t, we can take back our resources and our hearts and our minds to do what’s right.
The “Our Precious Essence” speech.
The Fuel Shark is your answer. Pop that baby in the cigarette lighter and BOOM, 50mpg.
100 MPG!
Have you had it? It’s terrible! I just flew in from the land of magical science and boy, are my arms tired!
What are you talking about? Alternative fuel engines? We have had engines that run on alcohol for a while now, they are well understood and generally aren’t worth the energy input to making the alcohol. Water engines? Every proposed water engine I’ve seen proposed relies on breaking laws of energy conservation and are junk science. The super carburetor is another one mentioned that is easily debunked, we know how much energy is in a gallon of gasoline and there just isn’t enough to make it last hundreds of miles even if it were 100% thermal efficient, which again would break laws of thermodynamics.
You are arguing with a 1994 Steven Seagal monologue.
You’ll have to excuse me, I don’t understand these outdated references. I was born in 94.
I get it. I’m a clueless narcissist as well.
As far as I’m concerned nothing ever happened before my birth either.
This is partially satire.
I’m more than skeptical of the idea of 100+ mpg carburetor(the efficiency of a conventional carburetor was already ~99.9% efficient at feeding fuel to the engine), and I’ve researched Stanley Meyer’s water powered car but it has never been 3rd party verified, which is an important consideration given the current understanding of the laws of thermodynamics suggest that what Meyers is claimed to have done is impossible(even if the circumstances of his death are highly suspicious, which makes me more open to the possibility that he indeed had something there). Brown’s gas actually works, BUT has all kinds of pitfalls that make it impractical to use, mostly due to the energy required to create it, and hydrogen in an ICE is a more practical method.
And even without some magic carburetor, over 100 mpg is VERY possible in an ICE car if you design the car from the ground up to obtain that sort of economy. To do so, the designers will also have to make tradition, convention and brand aesthetics take a back seat to this goal. Consider the Edison VLC2, Daihatsu UFE-III, Renault Vesta II, Citroen SL110, GM Lean Machine, Honda EPX, among others, all exceed 100 mpg highway.
That said, corporations gaining control over innovations and then sitting on them and keeping them from widespread use is a regular occurrence. Chevron and the NiMH battery comes to mind as a relevant example.
I can’t disagree with any of that, the carburetor claim generally centers on that alone being what gives the high mpg not an entire car from the ground up designed to do it, that’s another thing entirely. For the water car the circumstances of his death make it a good story but that’s all it is, a good story. You cannot get more energy from Browns gas than it takes to make it. There’s no mechanism for this to occur. I wish there was an easy button and solving this was just a matter of the right people getting paid but the truth is this is a hard problem without an easy answer.
The “easy button” is to change the way the cars are designed, away from maximizing monetary extraction from the operator and in favor of efficiency/longevity/reparability/recyclability.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idF6qQR_ws4
It’s not hard to design for efficiency. I made a scratch-built one-seater EV that only needs 0.008 kWh/mile to ride around town at 30 mph. That’s the electric equivalent of over 4,000 mpg. A 5-seater ~2,800 lb sedan passing FMVSS that can do 70 mph using only 0.120 kWh/mile is every bit as possible as that trike I built.
It is unfortunate that modern EVs are designed to be landfill fodder. It’s a complete squandering of the energy and resources that went into building them, contradicting the entire so-called justification for forcing them on the public.
From an engineering standpoint it isn’t hard but that changes most people’s idea of what a car is. You may buy a single seat car designed to last 50 years and get 100mpg but when faced with the realities of living with that car I think you’d be in a very small minority. Efficient cars are possible but they take tradeoffs that would be unappealing to the majority of car buyers. That’s how cars have ballooned over the years. They want space, features, and status. As long as it it working well enough by the time they sell it to not be worthless, it has lasted long enough. That is the reality and explains why we are here. It’s not just making efficient vehicles people have to want them at prices that make them viable.
For a single seater, you could do well over 100 mpg. 100 mpg is a possibility for a smallish, basic, but reasonably comfortable family hauler or a high performance sports car.
A one-seater can go into the four-digit MPG range using an ICE or diesel. The Shell Eco Marathon cars give an indication as to what that might look like.
I don’t buy it, the most serious attempt at something like you proposed was the Volkswagen XL1. Costs were very high, although higher volume may have brought these down substantially. It only achieved about 100mpg real world when running on diesel. This was a 2 seat max effort production car for peak efficiency. It isn’t exactly the type of thing the average American would choose to live with even if it could be made for 25k.
It’s full satire.
Classic Rooywyrm. There is a lot of truth in your rant, but a lot of bs as well. $25K/day limit on company fines? There are thousands of criminal and civil penalties that municipal, state, and federal governments can impose in the US alone. Your statement that there is a single $25K/day limit is really representative of your tendency to take a fact (e.g., one particular reg has that particular limit for a particular violation in a particular jurisdiction) and blow it up into a global conspiracy.
I’m such a sucker!
What about tripolodine?! A few drops in the tank’ll triple your gas mileage.
he’s a real turkey!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znps9Pk4QUY
Do you have the patent papers to prove that?
I really have to work on them, I would appreciate not being interrupted.