About a year ago I purchased a 2011 Nissan Leaf for what I thought was a steal — at $2000, it was the cheapest Leaf on the market. Now, only a short amount of time has past, and that Leaf appears to be worth less than used chewing gum. I cannot for the life of me sell it, and while part of me understands why, another part of me doesn’t get it at all.
When I bought my Nissan Leaf in September of last year, I knew it was dealing with a steaming pile whose battery had severely degraded over just 60,000 miles. In fact, the conclusion of my introductory article — in which I describe struggling to limp the car 20 miles home after my purchase — includes the following: “For the majority of people, though, the Nissan Leaf is a paperweight, largely useless.”
So it’s not like I’m surprised that it’s not for everyone, but at the same time, I kind of am. You see, a year ago, Leafs were selling for $2500 and up — even ones with bad batteries. I managed to snag mine for just $2000 due to the dent on the driver’s side front fender. You’d think that, if the market rate for such a Leaf was $2000 a year ago, I should be able to get close to that now.
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But no. I have my Nissan Leaf listed on Facebook Marketplace for $1800, and nobody has even offered me something similar. And again, you may be thinking: “Well, I mean, the thing only drives about 35 miles in town and 15 on the highway,” but consider this: This Leaf, after rebates, is almost free.
Seriously, if you qualify for the IRA used vehicle rebate, you get 30 percent off. So that’d make the car only $1260+fees, so about $1500. If you have a power company like Southern California Edison, they’ll give you another $1000 (or more) off, so that’s $800 for this machine if you don’t qualify for the IRA rebate and just $500 if you do! That little money for a beautifully driving, air conditioned machine!
Yes, the Leaf’s utility is limited. I get that. Like I said, you can only drive about 35 miles in town, and only about 15 on the highway at 60 mph. But you know what else has similar range? Golf carts. Look at this $10,722 Club Car Onward 4-passenger lacking air conditioning, lacking doors, lacking trunk space, lacking any crashworthiness, lacking standard bluetooth connectivity, and on and on. The thing uses Trojan T-875 lead-acid batteries and goes only 19 mph, with a range of probably only about 20 miles! And it’s nearly $11 grand!
Then look at the Club Car CRU Electric; it costs $24,995, and its max speed is just 25 mph, with regular 12-volt AGM car batteries offering a range of “15-20 miles” according to the manufacturer:
So people are dropping between $10,000 and $25,000 on little golf carts that are slower, smaller, less well-equipped, less safe, and offer much less range, but my Nissan Leaf isn’t even worth $500/$800/$1800? I don’t get it!
If I owned a resort I’d buy every dang one of these Leafs for $2000, paint each a fun color ,remove the doors, and save bundles on transportation costs.
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As for me, I’ll just be patient. The right buyer will come along, and if I have to offload it for a song, that’s OK. The Nissan Leaf served its purpose of getting me on Fox News and giving thousands of anti-EV extremists something to rally against. I’m obviously kidding; my goal was to do an EV conversion on my WWII Jeep, and I’ve realized that that’s just not going to happen anytime soon, and this Leaf is taking up valuable space in the Galpin parking lot.
I can find another one later. Apparently for just a wad of used gum.
Donate it to the local FD for EV fire suppression training. I’m sure starting a thermal runaway won’t be too difficult in that pile. Invite local news stations for free Autopian market exposure. You can thank me later.
Nobody wants your LEAF because it’s worthless, and not fit for purpose as an automobile.
30 miles is simply not enough to provide the functionality a person with money expects from a vehicle that requires registration, insurance, parking and all the other associated costs of running a vehicle in one of the largest cities in North America. Most people in LA don’t have access to a gigantic dealership to stash worthless beaters.
Throw in the body damage, and this thing goes from worthless to a genuine negative-value liability. Nobody is going to buy this other than a scrap yard. Just call the wrecker already.
Golf carts may cost $10k new, but their cost of ownership is ridiculously low, and they have a lifespan measured in decades. $10k is really nothing for a small vehicle/machinery built in the US, to commercial standards. Many people spend 30-50% of that simply insuring and maintaining a single automobile.
they may actually charge hi at this point as the battery usually come with a disposal fee attached.
while your comparison to golf carts is mildly humorous, the reality is that you are at the point when a vehicle becomes more expensive to own than it is to purchase. Remember that your argument that it could be as cheap as $300 depends on one of your immediate neighbors both being in the situation to take advantage of all rebates and have a desire for this vehicle. your market is incredibly small.
You readily admit that this is for those very few people who could actually derive some use for a vehicle with marginal functionality. But what is their ownership cost. They need to register it, pay sales tax, pay property tax, and insure it. One year of insurance is more than the vehicle is worth. Actually a few months is likely more…
But ownership expenses are just part of the cost of ownership exercise. They need a place to park it, and charge it. At the same time. As this is something that could not serve as a daily driver for most, it will be taking up valuable space and need to be moved around frequently. That is a hassle. My family has 4 drivers, and to add 2 more in months, my driveway looks a BHPH lot already. Most folks don’t have room to store something that has marginal function.
However none of these problems are truly as problematic as this last one. This has a shelf life measurable in minutes. How long until it fully bricks itself, likely rather inconveniently? Vegas odds are likely no more than a few days.
Even in your location, with literally the best possible market in the world, this is a truly worthless item. And it was when you made the mistake or purchasing it…
partner with greentec and pull a postal jeep series on that leaf. show people how anyone could replace the battery in their back yard….or a parking lot at the offices I suppose?
https://www.greentecauto.com/hybrid-battery/nissan/leaf/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-and-modules-assembly-gen-1-2011-2012?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw2dG1BhB4EiwA998cqOaWaXZ0ER07EukAiBm_r5OkZyVmRhNg-V7zLiDo4k0ZZMSBUaZ32BoC6eEQAvD_BwE
Came here to say the same thing! Greentec is a neat operation, they have a ton of interesting random surplus batteries.
And yeah, the battery just drops out the bottom, get a wrecked LEAF off Copart, borrow a 2-post lift and a pallet jack and away you go.
Yeah if you want to do it the easy way, without using a chainsaw!
It’s worth about $5,000, you just haven’t found the right buyer yet. Now go donate it to any charity that accepts donated cars. Take that $5,000 tax writeoff, which is worth about $1,900. It’s easier than trying to sell that POS.
What’s the power requirement for charging one of these? Stick a gas or diesel generator in it as a range extender.
Instead of selling it, try a DIY battery upgrade. First you need some electronics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LssrvVYLtp8
Then source a 623kwh pack and swap it in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMEooP3AZ0
But yeah, as it sits, that Leaf is a glorified paperweight. It’s worth slightly more than scrap value.
Maybe 24 dewalt tool batteries is the correct option. Seems to work for kids powerwheels
This might explain why the first-time EV buyers aren’t considering the EV as their next purchase. No wonder the sales of EV is going down so much that the manufacturers have relaxed their switch to EV and moved the target date further in the future.
2012 ish Tesla S models in limp mode because only a few of the cells in the huge ass pack are dead is also a big reason (20K+ repair).
Is it “Leafs” or “Leaves”?
I prefer “Leaves” non-standard plurals are very much a part of what gives English its charm. The ‘f’ to ‘v’ plurals in things like thieves and leaves comes from differences in dialect between Southern Old English and Northern Old English. We ended up using the singular from Northern and the plural from Southern. There are other instances like “Fox”, in Southern dialect Old English, it was “Vox” we still have a remnant of that when we call a female fox a “vixen”.
Leavii
“Drove my Chevy to the Leavii but the Leavii was dry”
A jean of Nissans.
And what is a group called, a “pile?”
In this case you don’t need a group of them. This Leaf can be called a pile.
LEAFs – it’s an acronym. And I’m no fun.
Demand that Bring a Trailer actually list a car that needs a trailer to go anywhere besides down the street in L.A.
On a climate controlled transporter without the new owner ever seeing the car in person, and planning to drive it 50 miles a year until they relist it on BAT in 3 years hoping they can make a quick buck…
The golf cart comparison came up with Jason’s Changli as well … I would love to see an article looking into why golf carts are so expensive. Is it just because the people who buy them have too much money? What’s the profit margin on a Club Car?
Yes, my guess is “because people pay it”. Outside of actual golf courses who buy them, it is a market pretty well relegated to well off people who buy a golf cart to tool around their gated community. The Club Car is parked next to a BMW in a house with a spot designed for the golf cart in the garage.
I wonder how much the golf and country clubs are paying for them. I bet they get a steep volume discount.
Burn it. Get the insurance.
P.S. Don’t let them know what you did
David, your best bet is to put it in an auction. Preferably, a big auction with lots of different items. Contact some local auctioneers and see what’s coming up.
If you were anywhere near CT I’d buy this in a heartbeat! Driving a mile to work at 25mph tops would be a breeze!
I’d pay $500 if you pay to ship it to the east coast!
Same here. My commute is 2.5 miles each way, with charging opportunities at each end. Getting it across the country is the deal breaker.
Could always buy it and somehow stop for a charge 1,000 or so times.
Seriously? No one’s cross shopping $10k golf carts and $2k cars. People shopping for cheap cars are either poor or bargain hunters. The bargain hunters won’t gamble on being able to repair and profit from a dying EV and the poor people can’t take the risk that, even if it gets them to work and the store now, in six months it might not without a repair that’s more than the purchase price. And poor people are the least likely to be able to take advantage of the incentives, either through lack of knowledge or just that cash in hand is more important than cash at the end of the year when you’re broke.
The utility of this is going to rely on being able to charge at home, which is something else that poor people likely cannot do. Poor people usually can’t charge at work either.
People have range anxiety with 300+ mile batteries. 35 miles is a non-starter, no pun intended. Would you buy a car that needs to be refueled every other day?
If you can only afford $1800, you can’t afford the risk of getting stranded, being late for work, paying for a tow, etc.
And even if it’s “free” to buy, you still have to insure it, park it, and maintain it, which on the whole costs the same as for an actual vehicle that will take you to your destination and costs a little more.
I’d take an accord with 250k miles and mismatched body panels over this.
Also: why did you buy it?
Plus even if I qualify for the rebates and makes it free, I wouldn’t want to waste it on this. The IRA rebate is once every 3 years only…
Depends, really. If you really just need a car to go a couple of miles, and you can charge at home, it really doesn’t get better than this.
I think that circle is really small
You’d be surprised. I’ve talked to plenty of people who own a house but their daily commute is five miles or less.
And they probably won’t be in the market for a $2000 Nissan Leaf.
That I agree with…gotta have a Suburban or Range Rover.
Hey that’s me!
I mean … it does though.
I’m actually entirely in the market for one of these considering I didn’t drive more than 20 miles today and rarely do (Tucson is not big) and already have a very suitable gas car for long distances. If I had a low-range EV like this it’d take a lot of the hard, cold-engine local miles off my Volvo thus extending the lifespan of its engine. The problem is that I’m almost 500 miles away from DT.
I’m surprise that there’s no popular ICE conversion for these. The chassis is cheap and the DMV thinks its an EV so you never have to smog it or get it inspected.
What would one of these weigh with no battery or drivetrain? Wonder if you could fit a liter bike engine under the hood?
The problem is that your market isn’t the entire country like a golf cart manufacturer’s is, it’s people that live within 30-35 miles of your house. 😛
hilarious
I’ll give you a Big Gulp and a bag of Doritos for it. All you have to do is drive it up to Oregon.
I’ve been wanting to try to enter an electric car in the 24 hours of lemons. This would make it a solid 24 minutes without a recharge.
I doubt it would, actually. There’s a team running a basically new Bolt EV in Lemons and I think they’re getting around 50-60 minutes per charge? I’d guess the Leaf would give you 10 minutes at race pace.
I think the problem is what a replacement / upgrade would cost. For example, Precision Auto Service can give you a 86% OEM battery starting at $7,000 CAD, up to a 62 Kwh pack for $23,000 CAD. https://precisionautoservice.com/leaf-battery-conversion/leafbatt/
I think it would barely be worth the money to do the 86% swap, and definitely would not be worth the $23K upgrade.
If it was an ICE car with a blown motor, I wouldn’t pay $2K for it. At the current range, it wouldn’t be worth the cost of insurance for me even if I got the car for free.
It finally occurred to me yesterday that an old Leaf would be perfect for my father, who farms on Long Island. He’s been using crappy old minivans to run back and forth between different fields (maybe 10 miles round trip) and honestly doesn’t need that much space anymore, I went on AutoTempest to try to find one cheap near him, but the lowest price I could find was like $6k from a BHPH-type lot. Might need to expand my search…
(I used to own a Leaf. I think it was a 2013? Worked fine for running errands around town. When we bought it for less than $10k in 2016, I remember thinking that it was like half the price of the silly side-by-side someone I knew bought to drive around town.)
The most interesting thing in your comment to me is learning that there are farms on Long Island
If you go far enough east, there sure are . And vineyards!
When he moved out to the east end in the 80s there were still a surprising number of potato farms. Many of those have turned into housing over the years, but there are still quite a few farms and, as Mr Wilson says, vineyards.
Selling anything can take time, even at super discounted prices.
1800 bucks is very dear for the demographic of people that would actually want this car.
Not that it’s not worth that, not at all! It’s just that if someone has 1800 bucks, and all those rebates are that strong in CA, chances are they’ll probably just use that for a down payment on a used bolt or something.
35 miles by golf cart standards is fantastic, but by car standards, in a city like LA, that’s frightening. Not everyone is as resourceful as you, so the average person that would be interested in it is probably BRIEFLY thinking about it, then realizing another 500 bucks will land them a running 2nd gen Prius, and then going “nah.”
Patience, grasshopper. She’ll sell. Just needs the right buyer. There’s an ass for every seat, as the sales guys at Galpin will tell ya!
Fixed it for you.
There’s indeed an ass for every seat.
Come to think of it, I’ve personally spent more than that on multiple vehicles that I never trusted to drive farther than 20 miles at a time
Can confirm… for a gift I recently bought my father a classic early 90s club car with a small lift kit and some knobby tires with fresh batteries and electronics and paint… $9000 and it was a fair deal.
20 mile range. Florida status cruiser. No one wants a busted up old crummy Nissan leaf
Could Jason use the parts to upgrade the ChangLi?
That’s a GREAT idea! Let’s make a low speed deathtrap capable of highway speed!!
Second the changleaf. But David has to take it to NC on its own wheels
Or the reverse. Can David fill the backseat with ChangLi batteries to boost the range?
Only if he uses a chainsaw again…