Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! This week, I’m setting a challenge for myself: I’m not allowed to use any West Coast cars. I’ve been leaning on California and Oregon and Washington pretty heavily recently, and it’s time I gave the rest of the country some attention. Today we have a car from Indiana and a car from Tennessee.
Last week, we went decade-by-decade through a bunch of stickshift cars, finishing up on Friday with the ’10s. (That still looks weird to type.) It was an incredibly close vote – just two votes separated our two choices, as of Sunday afternoon when I called it – but the Fiesta came out a couple of votes ahead. A win is a win. It can carry all those votes home in its big ugly-ass trunk, I suppose.
I don’t really have anything against the Fiesta per se, but I used to work for a company that had one as a communal runabout/company car, and I hated the job, so I want nothing to do with the car by association. I’ll take the Dart, but adding my vote means the Fiesta still wins by one.
With the notable and obvious exception of the Corvette, two-seat American cars don’t tend to stick around long in the market. They either grow an extra set of seats, like the original Ford Thunderbird, or fizzle out after a few years, like the Pontiac Fiero. I guess I understand why; two-seaters are niche vehicles with limited appeal, so sales are hard to come by. Initial demand may be strong, but it isn’t long before everyone who wants one has one.
Fortunately, two-seaters depreciate like any other car, and that means us cheapskates can get a second chance at them on the used market years later. These two are probably about as cheap as they’re going to get, which I guess means if you want one, now is the time. Let’s see which one you’d rather take home.
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT – $3,200
Engine/drivetrain: 2.8-liter overhead valve V6, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Odometer reading: 152,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
I don’t know who Pontiac’s marketing execs were trying to fool by calling the Fiero an ecomony car. Look at this thing: it’s low, wedge-shaped, mid-engined, and only has two seats. This is a sports car, even if it was a half-baked one to begin with. The five years of Fiero production were a story of constant small improvements, and this 1986 GT model is squarely in the middle. It’s got the updated styling and the V6 engine, but the old Citation and Chevette-based suspension.
The V6 in question is straight out of the GM X- and A-body parts bin, a high-output version of the same 2.8-liter engine found in countless Chevy Celebrities. In this case, it drives the rear wheels through a TH-125C three-speed automatic. Yeah, the manual ones are cooler, but if a GM three-speed auto is good enough for the Vector W8, I reckon it will do all right here. It runs very well, the seller says. They were fixing it up to be their kid’s first car, but it sounds like plans have changed. The front suspension has all been rebuilt, but the rear could still use it. It’s totally drivable as-is, though.
It’s got 152,000 miles on it, which is frankly a lot for any ’80s GM car interior. I would guess that the seats under those covers are not in great shape. The rest of it looks all right, but the seller says the tach doesn’t work. Luckily, Fieros have enough of a following that you can find information and parts to fix such problems.
Outside, it’s a bit of a mess. The windows in the sail panels are missing, and the paint is toast. It also looks like it’s missing some trim and the side marker lights. You never know, they could be in the trunk or in a cardboard box somewhere. It does have new sunroof seals, so you know your head will stay dry. That’s something.
2004 Ford Thunderbird – $3,900
Engine/drivetrain: 3.9-liter dual overhead cam V8, five-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Madison, TN
Odometer reading: 121,000 miles
Operational status: I assume it runs and drives fine
I know what you’re saying: Parts-bin-special sports cars with plastic bodies are cool and all, but you know what would be even cooler? A retro-pastiche roadster with a Jaguar engine. Oh, and could you give it a removable hard top with portholes? That would be great.
The eleventh and (so far) final generation of the Ford Thunderbird was part of the big retro-design movement of about twenty-five years ago, which kicked off with the Volkswagen New Beetle. Ford had designed a new rear-wheel-drive platform for Jaguar and Lincoln sedans and decided to use a shortened version of it as the basis of a new Thunderbird. It has a 3.9 liter V8 from Jaguar, a five-speed automatic from Ford, and four-wheel independent suspension. I wish I could tell you about this one’s mechanical condition, but it’s being sold by a dealership, and you know how they are about giving out information. I have to assume it runs and drives well enough for them to allow test drives.
It looks OK inside, but there is a hole in the driver’s seat and some serious wear on the gearshift knob. I’m guessing a previous owner drove resting their hand on it, a serious no-no with a manual, but I guess it really doesn’t matter with an automatic. And once again, I have to point out how dirty the carpet is. Don’t any of these dealerships own a shopvac? They’re like fifty bucks. Come on, guys.
Outside, it’s nice and shiny, but there’s something a little off about a few of the panel gaps around the bumpers that worries me. I don’t know if it’s just Ford screwing things up, or if it’s been repaired from an accident. The ad says it has a clean title, but that doesn’t mean it has never seen the inside of a body shop.
I know these two don’t have all that much in common besides being two-seaters, but we gotta work with what we have. If you have a family of four, you need them both, but we’ll assume you’re just choosing one for you and that special someone. So are you gonna fix up a Fiero, or take a chance on a mystery Thunderbird?
(Image credits: sellers)
That’s arguably the best color for those retro-style T-birds and the interior, while not perfect, is at least colorful enough to be interesting. That plus the V8 tips the scales toward the Ford.
Thunderbird is better at everything but being mid engined. Fiero is used up.
In this particular case, the retro Thunderbird is the much better option. It will be way faster, have way better all-around performance and needs way less work.
So it gets my vote.
My vote might have swung the other way if the Fiero was a manual 1988 model that was in better condition than this.
Or perhaps if it were a better candidate for a 3800 swap, which has been done, but that I’m shocked I don’t see more of in the car-guy press.
Definitely the Fiero…have always thought they were cool despite the problems they had…at least they finally got it right towards the end. They have a great body style unlike that ugly Fix Or Repair Daily wannabe Thunderbird.
I miss Pontiac!
That is one of the saddest Fieros I’ve ever seen. Good Lord! That spoiler!!
I want to own a Fiero GT eventually, just not that one. If that were a stick…MAYBE.
Thunderbird is cheap enough that I might try to do a remote-turbo install.
When it came out I thought the Thunderbord was one of the dumbest things I’d ever seen. I think it’s still dumb, but in a more endearing way (probably my terminal millennial irony kicking in). It’s also obviously the nicer of the two cars too. That said, to paraphrase Clarkson, the Thunderbord is good, but I *like* the Fiero.
I always liked the T-bird’s styling. With the exception of the porthole. The rest of the car deserved something less kitschy.
I’ll even forgive the interior since that seems to be all that Detroit knew how to do in those days.
Ugh, you ain’t lying about 00s interiors. Like a lot of muscle car fans of family age, I swooned over the Dodge Magnum wagon when it came out. I looked over a couple when I was shopping for a car a couple years ago. When I saw the interior, I flashed back to picking up a rental Stratus at the airport – more silver plastic than my home stereo in the ’80s.
I would still love to have one, if I had the means and time to do a complete interior swap with something much better out of a later model 300.
I almost went for the Thunderbird, but the Fiero costs less and I’d actually drive it. A manual would’ve made it much more fun, though.
Always wanted the Jaaagerbird. LS lincoln issues scared me a way when new, but for that price I would probably be fine with learning all the stuff I hated about Jag’s but never knew.
At least with a Jag you could have your nightmares wrapped in something pretty.
Owned enough Fiero’s to know that one was a “I’m gonna 3800 swap it!” before the realities of a swap set in.
As such, I’ll take the T-Bird. I always thought they looked cool, and with a little elbow grease she could be a fun cruiser and would be a shoe-in for a lot of “modern classic” competitions at local car shows.
Usually I vote against a car that’s an in-progress project, but I have ideas for a Fiero and have wanted one for this purpose for a while.
The Pontiac folks were trying to fool GM’s board, who were never going to green-light a low-volume sports car, especially when they already had the Corvette. The only way the Fiero was going to see production, especially in the 80s when GM was sure gas prices would soar, was as a potential hypermiler.
Unfortunately, it meant they didn’t get dedicated sports-car bits and were given too low a budget to initially make the car a proper performance machine.
Also, it’s gonna be the Thunderbird for me. The Fiero does nothing for me apart from its ability to be transformed into something infinitely better-looking–thanks to that spaceframe–and I’m familiar enough with the Jaguar V8, even though this one uses a 3.9-liter Ohio-built version thereof.
As a serial Jag owner you would feel right at home.
I really want a Fiero so that’s what got my vote. I’ll likely never own one, as these last five years or so seem to be the ideal time to get one that runs and drive for cheap. Between a six month old and work and the fact that I’m barely keeping up with maintenance on my two fifteen year old cars, a 40+ year old midengined two seater is real hard to justify. Those final Thunderbirds are interesting to me as a cruiser. Wish this one was a more interesting color. Iirc Ford offered a nice pastel green on them.
These did look best in the ’50s throwback colors they offered them in, like seafoam green and “banana custard” yellow.
But considering the one in the photo above: seriously, automakers, you make so many black cars these days, but you won’t offer navy blue next to it? Why not?
If the fiero were in better shape and a manual it would probably win hands down. There’s one local to me that someone swapped a 3800 supercharged engine into and it’s scary quick. But since this particular fiero is in an auto and has a rattle can paint job and the interior is rough I’m gonna have to go with the t-bird. I actually like the last gen t-birds. I know they’re a parts bin special and they’re big enough to have a rear seat even though it’s just a two seater. I do like the retro looks though and they cruise down the road just fine. They were never meant to be a sports car.
I’ll definitely take the slightly beat Bird over the worst example of the best Fiero. 3spd auto-tragic in a sports car, WTF?
Friends of mine have one of these T-birds in that turquoise color half of them seem to be. It’s nice to drive, though the interior is very Fisher-Price. Thiers is a low-mileage mint example only driven summers. Which is the one you want.
worst example would more likely be the 2M4 with the same 3 speed slush box, but also the hoary Iron Duke 4.
That’s why I said it’s the worst example of the best Fiero. Because this IS the best Fiero, but ruined by that transmission.
Had to vote T-bird even though I really don’t want it. The last generations of Fiero were ok. But this one is off. Bad mods? Accident? Just seems dirty and off and if I’m buying a Fiero, I’m getting a damn stick.
If I buy the TBird and something goes wrong within the first day or so, can I drive it through the Dealer’s front window?
Asking for a friend….
If I had to guess, the dealer doesn’t have a front window; it’s just one of those comstruction-site trailers and maybe one of those wavy air guys.
Nothing says “Trustworthy” like a car lot run out of a FEMA trailer…
Thunderbird for me. I thought they were silly when they came out and I still think they’re silly. But they’re unique and I always liked the porthole window on the hard top. I figure that the hardtop is probably worth about the cost of the car listed so even if I only get a few months enjoyment I can make most of my money back. I just wish it was in one of the cooler colors.
$1000 for the hard top $1500 for the wheels and caps, $600 for the tail lights, then you have all the modules which can bring several hundred dollars depending on which one and when it was last repaired.
Do you want me to make a poor financial decision over here lol
Seems like a good financial decision form my point of view.
Oh Lord, do I LOATH the Fiero. Why? I’m…not sure. I DO know that I LOATH the Fiero. I’m not a huge fan of the T-Bird, but it’s not a Fiero, so it wins by default.
I’ve always really wanted a Fiero, but would wait for one in better condition
I’ve never really wanted a last gen Thunderbird, but I have always sort of liked them, not really enough to buy one, but I don’t hate them. They were overpriced when new and had way too generic 2000s looking interiors for something that was supposed to be 50s retro, but most of the ones out there seem to be fairly well kept and depreciation makes them seem more fine for a summer beach cruiser
Tough one today. Both are mildly desirable but afflicted with the incorrect transmissions. The Fiero looks awful but apparently runs well and somehow has a crackless dash and the engine in the middle. The Tbird looks very nice but is being sold by a dealer, which is not good with a car this old and potentially banged up at some point. Guess I’ll go with the nasty-looking Fiero as I always liked those and that year would be the one to have. Paint job on day one.
As a Fiero owner and frequenter of junk yards looking for parts, I would report that for some unknown reason Fiero dashboards seem to not crack as often as other cars from that age. Some do, but it seems to be the exception not the rule.
That Fiero is in rough shape with the least ideal transmission. Hard pass.
Also, I’m about 98% sure I saw that exact Fiero on the r/ProjectCar subreddit where a guy picked it up for $300.
The blob of pancake batter expanding on a hot griddle? The cod fish laying on the ocean floor? Either way, I don’t like the looks, but I guess I’ll take the Ford.
A Fiero is on my car bucket list. A Thunderbird is not. I’d deal with an earlier one without the bespoke suspension and the Lotus tuning. Easy peasy.