Good morning! Well, now that we’re done with the alphabet, I guess I’m going to run out the week with stuff I just think is neat, starting with one car I didn’t choose for the alphabet game, and one I probably would have if it had been available at the time.
Well, one thing is abundantly clear from yesterday: neoclassics are not favorites around here. They seem to be a love-it-or-hate-it thing. I know I’m not a fan, and neither are eighty percent of you. The little Honda Z won this round handily. Big thanks again to SWG for bringing it to my attention.
Our household was split: my wife took one look at the Zimmer and fell in love, while I wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole. I don’t think she even looked at the Honda twice, whereas I would happily bomb around in it. Oh, and by the way, you couldn’t get a Honda Z with a manual. They were strictly automatics. It is, however, the same drivetrain as a Honda Acty van, and those were available with a manual, so theoretically a swap should be possible.
All right; let’s take a look at what might have been. One of these cars was briefly in the running for the letter Z, and another would have been a better choice for one R car, but it wasn’t yet for sale. Here they are.
1981 Datsun 280ZX Turbo – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.8-liter overhead cam inline 6, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Henderson, NV
Odometer reading: 190,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Datsun’s original Z car was an instant legend, with its torquey inline six and zippy handling. Its successor, this car, has never commanded the same respect. Maybe it’s because it’s bigger and softer, more tuned for comfort than handling. Maybe it’s because of the way its drivers were portrayed in movies and music videos. Whatever the reason, the 280ZX spent years as an also-ran, playing second fiddle to Z cars both older and newer. But now, it seems, the remaining good ones are getting their due.
The 280ZX could be had with either a naturally-aspirated inline six or this turbocharged version, putting out 180 horsepower, which was pretty serious for the time. In fact, a Corvette of the same year only boasted 190, and it weighed five hundred pounds more. Unfortunately, the original buyer of this one opted for an automatic, which in 1981 meant only three forward gears, and a mushy torque converter that saps a lot of the fun. It does run well, however, and the seller says it has been daily driven.
It’s really nice inside, and I think the seats may have been reupholstered. They look just a little bit nicer than everything else. These were available with T-tops; this one doesn’t have them. Whether that’s a positive or a negative depends on your opinion of T-tops, I suppose. At least it’s the much better-proportioned two-seat version, instead of the awkward 2+2.
Outside, it’s nice at first glance, but there are a couple areas of concern. One is the strip of what looks like primer-gray on the roof. I have no idea what’s going on there, but you’d be wise to ask about it. The other is what looks like overspray on the rear plastic bumper, though it could just be faded black plastic. At least it’s rust-free, and still has all four of those wonderful snowflake-style wheels.
1985 Renault Encore – $3,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1.4-liter overhead valve inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Derry, NH
Odometer reading: 83,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives, but needs a little work
AMC was in big trouble in the late 1970s. It had Jeep, and a whole lot of ten-year-old car designs with twenty-year-old engines that were reliable, but increasingly outclassed. AMC partnered with Renault to help gain back the small-car ground it once dominated, and the two companies co-designed a small sedan called the Alliance, followed a year later by this car, the Encore, basically the same thing with a hatchback.
Renault supplied the engines for the Alliance and Encore, and originally, they weren’t any more modern than AMC’s own sixes. The base engine, which this car has, is Renault’s venerable Cléon-Fonte pushrod four-cylinder, which dates all the way back to 1962. Here it displaces 1.4 liters, puts out 64 horsepower, and drives the front wheels through a five-speed manual gearbox. It runs and drives, and has had a bunch of recent work done, but the ad mentions something about a brake line needing to be replaced. But the brakes are new, which is confusing. Why do the brakes and not replace a leaking line? Something doesn’t add up.
AMC’s Dick Teague designed the interior for the Alliance and Encore, and if you’re familiar with AMC interior designs, you can tell. These seats are also mighty comfortable, by the way, which combined with a typical French soft suspension makes for a nicer ride than a lot of small cars. It looks really nice, but the driver’s seat being covered up is a bit concerning. It might be fine under there, but if so, why not let us see?
It looks clean on the outside too, and a couple of undercarriage photos in the ad show it’s rust-free underneath. This is the nicest Encore I’ve seen in many years, actually. It would certainly be a hit at any car gathering with folks old enough to recognize it.
I’ve been trying to come up with a common thread between these two to justify putting them together, and I just can’t … no, wait! They’re both hatchbacks! There, I knew I’d figure out something. So what’ll it be: the Japanese sports car gone soft, or the Franco-American economy car?
Three speed automatic…
No T-tops…
Eight grand…
Hahaha!
Go pound sand.
Z choice is obvious! Don’t want an Encore performance. Bad enough the first time!
Gotta be the Encore (can’t believe I’m typing that). The Z is all wrong and I’m thinking there are some hidden issues. I just can’t abide that price either.
Usually an automatic isn’t an issue, since my entire fleet is auto aside from the Fiero GT I just bought a little over a week ago, but I’d rather not ever own another car with a 3-speed. I still picked the 280 though. Usually a 2-door hatchback like the Renault would be something I’m interested in, but not this time, for some reason.
Aren’t the Renaults just uglified versions of the 9 and 11?
Z it is. If not a grand tourer, then a manual swap shouldn’t be difficult. I’m not sure if it’s worth the extra 5K, though.
Yes, yes they are. I wouldn’t even call them particularly uglified, though the interiors certainly have an American accent compared to their cousins from across the pond. They look pretty much the same other than slightly larger bumpers and US-standard headlights.
Old Z is always the answer! Although it is weighted down with fancy things like electric windows, electric locks, all kinds of emissions doodads, and a slush box, The ZX still has an L28 with Bosh L-Jet, it is one of the finest engines Nissan ever made. put a stroker kit and new turbo on it and you are up and running! I daily drove a 77 Z for years, same engine, no turbo, 170hp, way lighter. I still miss that car!
Oooof! Auto-tragic and no t-tops. This is not the Z you are looking for.
I’ll save $5K and bide time with Frenchy. In fact, I’ll just invest that $5K in the market and in 2-3 years I’ll have, lets see… um roughly $0.37 to spend on a better Z.
Fun fact: the starter from a Chevette can be made to fit an Encore. The distinct lack of parts for French cars in 1980’s rural Canada is responsible for this helpful (?) discovery. Mon dieu!
It’s a shame the quality was bad because the Allian-Core was rather nice. I voted for this. If the engine craps out it would be a fun candidate for some kind of bonkers engine swap, like a Predator twin, or something electric.
Hmmm… Legendary awesomeness (even with that sad A/T), vs. French econobox (and it’s not even an interesting one, 404? 504? 403? all interesting!). I’m going Z-car. Click and Clack once said (while talking with Morley Safer about his ‘crouching tiger’ 505 Turbo Wagon) ‘The French copy nobody and nobody copies the French’. I can attest to this, I was once in the middle of Eastern Wa. in winter in my 505 Turbo Diesel and the clutch cylinder got loose. Turned out the bolt holding it to the bell housing was stripped (how? Aluminum bell housing, steel bolt. WTF, previous owner?). On top of that it was an M7! Try finding an M7 in E. Wa., in the middle of winter. My friends’ chronically stoned BF, who was weirdly a talented garage machinist, helped me grind down and cut threads onto and M8 and it held until I got back the SeaWa.
I’ll take the coke-addled Disco Z, but I will not let Ron Johnson take me to the baseball dugout.
Z-lieve it or not, this Datsun is much nicer than Finnegan’s.
Many moons ago, I was in my ancient Volvo 144S in stop and go traffic when I braked hard and was rear-ended by a new Encore.
The Renault was trashed – fluids leaking out everywhere, etc.
My Volvo suffered a bent tail pipe.
I believe I’d rather have the Z.
Not sure the Z would have come out less scathed. Japanese cars of the 70s-80s were not known for their crash safety ratings any more than French eco-boxes.
I thought about joining the cool kids in camp Stick or Nothing, but I’m not going to punish myself with an aging French econobox to fit in. The Datsun is the better car here. It can safely drive in modern traffic and is at the price/condition point where you can either go for a restoration or just enjoy it as a survivor. A sloppy 3 speed auto is particularly unfortunate though. If I owned it I would definitely consider a swap, whether to a manual or to a more modern automatic.
Saw the headline; voted Datsun.
Now I’ll go back and read the post.
Can’t resist the allure of the 280Z! It was the first car that I truly fell in love with and you never forget your first.
It’s the Z for me!
Get the Z and manual swap it. Bonus points if the swap’s shifter is gated.
Seriously though, so much potential. You could easily get stiffer suspension if you wanted to track this car, and with a little bit of creative license (and some cuts and welds) you could probably shoehorn a VR38DETT in there. More realistically though, you could easily swap a VQ30DETT and probably not have to do as much creative plumbing and not need to have a donor hood to cut up.
That is a lot of turd polish. At that point, there are so many better options. Even one with modifications for only a bit more than this dog.
Encore. Nice little driver, and the engine is simple to work on once you’ve dug past all the smog stuff. Be sure to replace all the little rubber hoses….
Also: manual transmission.
Never owned an Encore, but drove several and found them just fine. Of course a shift-it-yourself 240Z would change my vote.
I’ve never liked the late disco era Z’s. It always seems like they phoned in the redesign of the original. Plus it’s an effing automatic.
I’ll take the Renault. It’s a stick, and I hear they’re fun to drive. Plus, my mom looked at one (actually an Alliance, but close enough), and the salesman drove like an absolute lunatic when he demo’d the car for her, which my mom loved. Good times.
280ZX. As the former owner of a T-top equipped Z, this one being a hard top is a good thing because new seals for the tops are hard to find. The automatic sucks, but the rest is in good shape. The price seems a bit high, but since anything that runs and is in anyway desirable is now worth at least $5k, the $8k doesn’t seem as bonkers as it would have a few years ago.
Encore. When I was a kid in the 1980’s, I remember checking them out with my dad. Of course, being an Oldsmobile guy, they were WAAAAAY too small for him, but they were sharp little cars. A good solid response to the market at the time.
I voted Datsun. I have always thought the 280 was the best looking Z. I don’t understand why these don’t get the same respect as other Z variants. The 3 speed automatic is obviously a negative, but the red interior partially makes up for that.
I also don’t get the Renault. Maybe it is just my anti-France sentiments, but I see this as just another ’80s pseudo premium-ish econobox. To me, It is a weirder, Frencher VW Jetta, and nothing more. I appreciate this car in the same way I would appreciate a concourse-grade 1992 Ford Escort. I have no interest in it as a car, but it has some appeal as a preserved historical object.
I dated a French girl in the 1980s and she even said French cars were total garbage.
Eight grand for an auto-tragic ZX seems like highway robbery, but I’ll take it and RWD over the Renault.
That was my thought but I went Renault. $8k for that Z just seems too much. Even for fake internet monies.
The Encore is the easy choice for me. First, I love French cars. Second, this Z is the saddest of all Zs. It is the “fat Elvis” design update of the amazing original, with an automatic to kill any energy that might remain. Third, the price for the miles.
Best description of the 280ZX ever!
Encore. It was COTY!
Has that French ride quality.
And I thought they were neat when I was a kid. Had an AMC dealer around the corner. Probably explains a lot.
Was the Encore CATY, or the Alliance?
I sometimes confuse the offerings from ‘The One to Watch.’
Oh, it was the Alliance; but, you know, the Encore is the same thing, but better, because hatchback!
Really the GTA is the one I want; man those are so cool.
Why the Renault-AMC Alliance Was Our 1983 Car of the Year
Wow a neat car that is unfortunately an automatic vs a total survivor but a total POS. I will go with the white automatic (sad) over 80s french garbage.