Good morning! Well, now that we’re done with the alphabet, I guess I’m going to run out the week with stuff I just think is neat, starting with one car I didn’t choose for the alphabet game, and one I probably would have if it had been available at the time.
Well, one thing is abundantly clear from yesterday: neoclassics are not favorites around here. They seem to be a love-it-or-hate-it thing. I know I’m not a fan, and neither are eighty percent of you. The little Honda Z won this round handily. Big thanks again to SWG for bringing it to my attention.
Our household was split: my wife took one look at the Zimmer and fell in love, while I wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole. I don’t think she even looked at the Honda twice, whereas I would happily bomb around in it. Oh, and by the way, you couldn’t get a Honda Z with a manual. They were strictly automatics. It is, however, the same drivetrain as a Honda Acty van, and those were available with a manual, so theoretically a swap should be possible.
All right; let’s take a look at what might have been. One of these cars was briefly in the running for the letter Z, and another would have been a better choice for one R car, but it wasn’t yet for sale. Here they are.
1981 Datsun 280ZX Turbo – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.8-liter overhead cam inline 6, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Henderson, NV
Odometer reading: 190,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Datsun’s original Z car was an instant legend, with its torquey inline six and zippy handling. Its successor, this car, has never commanded the same respect. Maybe it’s because it’s bigger and softer, more tuned for comfort than handling. Maybe it’s because of the way its drivers were portrayed in movies and music videos. Whatever the reason, the 280ZX spent years as an also-ran, playing second fiddle to Z cars both older and newer. But now, it seems, the remaining good ones are getting their due.
The 280ZX could be had with either a naturally-aspirated inline six or this turbocharged version, putting out 180 horsepower, which was pretty serious for the time. In fact, a Corvette of the same year only boasted 190, and it weighed five hundred pounds more. Unfortunately, the original buyer of this one opted for an automatic, which in 1981 meant only three forward gears, and a mushy torque converter that saps a lot of the fun. It does run well, however, and the seller says it has been daily driven.
It’s really nice inside, and I think the seats may have been reupholstered. They look just a little bit nicer than everything else. These were available with T-tops; this one doesn’t have them. Whether that’s a positive or a negative depends on your opinion of T-tops, I suppose. At least it’s the much better-proportioned two-seat version, instead of the awkward 2+2.
Outside, it’s nice at first glance, but there are a couple areas of concern. One is the strip of what looks like primer-gray on the roof. I have no idea what’s going on there, but you’d be wise to ask about it. The other is what looks like overspray on the rear plastic bumper, though it could just be faded black plastic. At least it’s rust-free, and still has all four of those wonderful snowflake-style wheels.
1985 Renault Encore – $3,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1.4-liter overhead valve inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Derry, NH
Odometer reading: 83,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives, but needs a little work
AMC was in big trouble in the late 1970s. It had Jeep, and a whole lot of ten-year-old car designs with twenty-year-old engines that were reliable, but increasingly outclassed. AMC partnered with Renault to help gain back the small-car ground it once dominated, and the two companies co-designed a small sedan called the Alliance, followed a year later by this car, the Encore, basically the same thing with a hatchback.
Renault supplied the engines for the Alliance and Encore, and originally, they weren’t any more modern than AMC’s own sixes. The base engine, which this car has, is Renault’s venerable Cléon-Fonte pushrod four-cylinder, which dates all the way back to 1962. Here it displaces 1.4 liters, puts out 64 horsepower, and drives the front wheels through a five-speed manual gearbox. It runs and drives, and has had a bunch of recent work done, but the ad mentions something about a brake line needing to be replaced. But the brakes are new, which is confusing. Why do the brakes and not replace a leaking line? Something doesn’t add up.
AMC’s Dick Teague designed the interior for the Alliance and Encore, and if you’re familiar with AMC interior designs, you can tell. These seats are also mighty comfortable, by the way, which combined with a typical French soft suspension makes for a nicer ride than a lot of small cars. It looks really nice, but the driver’s seat being covered up is a bit concerning. It might be fine under there, but if so, why not let us see?
It looks clean on the outside too, and a couple of undercarriage photos in the ad show it’s rust-free underneath. This is the nicest Encore I’ve seen in many years, actually. It would certainly be a hit at any car gathering with folks old enough to recognize it.
I’ve been trying to come up with a common thread between these two to justify putting them together, and I just can’t … no, wait! They’re both hatchbacks! There, I knew I’d figure out something. So what’ll it be: the Japanese sports car gone soft, or the Franco-American economy car?
I had an NA ’81 280zx long ago and do sometimes miss it, so that’s what I would take. I would need to swap in a manual transmission (the ’81 turbo wasn’t available with it, but it was in ’82).
Cosmetically, the primer stripe is where the owner took off a dealer added stainless “targa bar”. I’d be a little concerned that they just bondoed the holes from it and didn’t weld them shut. I’d have to sand it down to verify and fix properly or risk water leaks from the roof. The red interior plastics are notorious for fading. The column surround needs to be replaced at least, but the rest of the interior looks good.
Despite the red interior (ugh) and the auto (ugh ugh ugh), I’m going with the Z.Someone’s at least tried to take good care of it, and it looks pretty good for all of those years under the desert sun. That Encore is just too sketchy not to mention paralyzingly dull at its very best..
Datsun only for Smokescreen.
Datsun for sure. I’m usually not a fan of rear window louvers, but this gives Gadgetmobile vibes. White, red interior, and no creaky T-Tops? It’s raining Datsun cogs.
Screw it, I’m going Renault even though it normally would have been an automatic NO since those are junk. That Z is WAY overpriced, and an auto or I would have voted for it. My brother used to have a similar one and his was trashed so those are a little off-putting to me, but now I see them as still decent cars, and the body style has grown on me. At least the Encore is stick, has low miles, and is AMC related (I love AMC Eagle!) I’m still aware these aren’t nearly as good though, just like those models made by the Eagle BRAND name, not AMC model name. Hell, for this car I’ll use it for a while; see how it does (not great ha ha) and then eventually just rip all that junk out of the bay and start over w/ a better used engine, etc…then go through everything else, then paint it blue (Realistically, I’d drive it then junk it so I could get something I actually want!)
The ZX is overpriced IMO, especially with an auto, but there’s no way I pick that Alliance. Plus, I had a couple of S30 Zs, but I never drove a ZX.
I always thought the Alliance and Encore looked cool. 64 HP doesn’t sound like a lot. My ’68 Datsun 510 had 96. From only 200 more ccs.
Pity about the automatic in the ZX. And yes, the interior appears to have held up well. I had a friend in college with a 240Z and a modified exhaust. And a stick. It sounded great and I was deeply envious.
The Renault has a stick. It’s less than half the price. And has less than half the miles on it. So, I went with that.
Datsun for me. Even this porkified version of the Z car is vastly better than the Renault Encore.
In the immortal Works of Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, “Never buy a French car, unless you live in France” Z for the win.
Know both of these cars well. Lots of seat time in both models.
Z for me, even if it feels overpriced.
Circa 1981, 4 year old me had a neighbor who worked at a Datsun dealer. Every week he had a different car in his driveway, and frequently they were 280ZXes. I fell in love with these, having no idea previous versions were “better” or even existed at all. It’s probably what kickstarted my lifelong interest in cars.
I think in 1984 or 85, we were in New York for my dad’s Change of Command ceremony. It was nearly midnight, with pouring rain, and stuck in gridlock traffic in Manhattan. The car? A rented Encore 4 door. I was in the middle backseat, and my grandmother was on my left, getting wet as the brand new car door leaked all over her. That was my one and only Renault experience.
8 Grand for a car that has nearly 200k on the odo? just no!!
I went with the On-Cor meatloaf….I mean the Franco -American Encore 😉
Yeah, that was too rich for my blood…way overpriced so had to go Renault…also made me think of this song-NOFX!
https://youtu.be/ZSb3nG4oTNQ?si=dQf7QLFAF3xsh948
This one is e Z to pick lol. Yeah, the auto is stupid but the rest is nice.
Also, next time I have insomnia, I’ll be sure to look at pics of that Renault. That’ll do the trick.
I had to flip a coin for this. It came up tails.
You would have liked heads better.
I seem to recall that the ZX only came in automatic for the first year or two because the 5 speed wouldn’t take the torque of the turbo engine. Source: Friend’s older brother who bought one and then had to endure our ridicule for buying an automatic.
From the R&T test …
First, it’s available only with the 3-speed automatic transmission (apparently to simplify meeting emissions standards and the interest of keeping the drivetrain in one piece).
I really should go Z, but I love French cars, despite my terrible experience owning one, and it’s the manual! Hopefully the encore is better than the initial French hatchback experience was for me…
What was your initial French hatchback? I had a gas Peugeot 504 sedan I bought for $1500 with 60K on the odometer and put 90K more on before it got rear-ended and the bodywork got folded up to the rear tires. Insurance company gave me $900, so that was by far, the lowest cost per mile vehicle I have ever owned.
It was an “Automatique” and not particularly efficient. But gas was cheap back then. Not a memorably great handling car, but it was sturdy and incredibly comfortable.
Peugeot 306 GTi-6 that I imported. It was one of my absolute favorite cars, before the engine exploded. https://www.theautopian.com/i-bought-a-french-hot-hatch-and-it-almost-immediately-imploded-members-rides/
I just read the Members’ Rides article you linked, and it was awesome. I’m late to this party of a site, so I missed it when written.
Brave move buying and driving all these RHD cars in Texas. I lived in Beaumont for six years and drove around a fair amount of the state before I moved back to Tacoma, WA a couple of years ago. I wish our paths had crossed before you moved to VA and I moved to WA.
Having owned and loved a couple of 504s, I loved the look of the 205s and 306s. I rented a diesel 307 hatchback in France about 20 years ago and it was lovely. I wanted to bring it home. Along with a Citroen Xsara Picasso.
I loved visiting San Antonio, but wow, the freeways there. I don’t remember if it was I-10 or I-37 (I think it was I-10) was the most confusing freeway I’ve ever driven on. Trying to figure out which level of the double-deck I should be on was not easy for a non-local.
And I always hated driving to and around Houston. So many assholes in Ford trucks of varying sizes driving like it’s a NASCAR race. I would have thought Dallas would be worse, but nope.
Yeah that article was a lot of fun and was 100% of the reason I begged for the opportunity to revive it after it died for a bit.
Yeah San Antonio drivers are insane, but I went from bikes to the RHD stuff so it was still a lot safer!
I lived in the UK from 07-09 and fell in love with the French hatchbacks there so I had to get one. I still want another haha. But I’ll be more careful if I do it again. The import guys up in your neck of the woods have a purple 306 convertible that I want so bad but luckily don’t have the space at the moment.
I got to SA at least six times and the drivers there were way less insane than the ones around Houston, in my experience.
I’ve driven RHD in S Ireland and Australia. The number of left-hand mirrors knocked off in the return lot when we picked up the Ireland rental was like “how does that happen?” And then driving on B roads in Ireland and encountering oncoming trucks was “oh. I get it.” White knuckle moments. In Australia, things aren’t so tight, but I was happy not to hit a ‘roo. Saw a fair amount of dead ones that did get hit driving from Sydney to Canberra. And as tall as they are, it would have been somewhere in between hitting a deer and a moose.
I’ve had bikes, from my first one, a Suzuki 550 up to a Goldwing 1800. I now putt around town on a Honda ADV 160 scooter, when the weather is relatively nice. It actually provides decent protection when a surprising rain shower pops up. It’s technically freeway legal, do maybe 75 eventually, but I’m not going to go looking for trouble there.
I think me riding a bike in the RHD countries would be a bad idea. When you’re sitting in the “other side” in an RHD car, you know that it’s not what you’re used to if you’re from the States. On a bike, I might forget.
Thanks for the chat. It can continue if you like.
Fair enough, yeah I never spent much time in Houston. Mostly just driving through it on the way to Corpus Christi a couple times. I was always nervous in SA because it supposedly has the highest rate of uninsured drivers in the country, which was very much reflected in my premiums while I lived there!
Yeah I saw people hit mirrors all the time in the UK, but I think that has far more to do with the tight roads than the RHD.
I had never thought about how different it would be to ride a bike in a RHD country, you would feel normal on the bike but have to be sure to stay on the left. That would be interesting. Having driven RHD cars here for so long now, I do wonder how hard it would be to adapt to also driving on the opposite side.
I never say no to chatting about cars. I’m relatively active in the discord if you feel like jumping in there. The comment section isn’t overly well suited for longer conversations.
So we’ve got one car with a powerful (for the time) engine but a transmission that will sap the power out of it, and another with a gutless engine, but a transmission that will let you use the most of it. Hmmmm…
That Z looks sketchy, tired, got the wrong transmission and it’s overpriced. I love the wheels, though.
I’ll take the Encore home
The Encore for me. I owned one about a decade ago. It was super comfortable, fuel efficient, practical, and fun to drive in a slow car fast sort of way.
The curiousity factor and Radwoods would probably wear thing after a couple turns, and you’d be left with…an Encore. Admittedly, the person pricing the automatic Z at $8k probably is hitting whatever stash they have left over from the 80’s, but it has a little more potential at being something that you’d consider owning more than one year.
that Encore is rare to be sure. they were not well assembled back in the day (Dad had a new one that lost parts as we drove away from the Stealership.) this one should not have survived to be honest, but even still, the Z is all around better even with an auto trans.
“lost parts as we drove away from the Stealership”
That was just them copying Lotus: “simplify and add lightness” Ha ha
Also: “but that TruCoat!”
If the Z had the T-tops, I would’ve picked it.
The black car is cheaper, and $8000 is kinda crackhead for the Z.
If I wanted a Camaro, I would buy a Camaro, so no Z for me.
I LOVE French cars as a rule, and found these to be perfectly delightful in-period, so I’ll take Kenosha’s finest home.
Renault. $3000 is “why not?” money for a running car these days, and worth it for all the double-takes. Besides, lookit those sweeet 80s wheels.
I love me a Datsun but $8000 is getting into Miata territory, and if I want an I-6 I can get it in friggin’ stick-shift wagon form for $1900 (after some minor assembly.)
You swayed me with the Renault’s price. If I’m dropping $8k on a Z, it’s going to be a manual in a color other than white.
I’ll take the Z, with some reservation. Does anybody know how to get the smell of Brut out of upholstery?