John Z. DeLorean was an automotive legend with a frankly impressive resume. He had his hands on everything from the iconic Pontiac GTO to the Pontiac Firebird and the Pontiac Grand Prix. But for all of his hits, DeLorean also had some misses. One of them was the Vega and how he pushed the thing as a top-notch handler. “Today I would say that at Chevrolet we know more about handling than anybody else in the world. And I mean anybody else in the world including any of the guys that make racecars.”
Going even further (or shoveling harder, if you prefer), DeLorean elevated the Vega’s solid rear axle as superior to independent setups. “I think that you’re going to see the expiration of independent rear suspension on all cars before long.”
This brings me to David Tracy and Huibert Mees’ totally nerdy rundown of the new Scout trucks’ engineering. In it, Huibert offers a much more sensible view of solid-axle and independent suspensions:
“If you’ve ever driven an old solid axle car around a bumpy turn, you will probably have experienced the sideways dance these cars would do as the tires lose contact with the ground and lose grip … this whole phenomenon is the main reason solid axles are no longer used in passenger cars and independent rear suspensions have taken over. It is just not possible to get the level of ride, comfort, and handling with the unsprung mass of a solid axle these days.”
Cheap Bastard got a deep laugh out of me for this response:
“There’s nothing that comes within a mile of the Vega for performance and handling. This car will outhandle almost any sports car built in Europe.”
“I think that you’re going to see the expiration of independent rear suspension on all cars before long.”
– John Z “Cocaine is a HELL of a Drug!” DeLorean.
What Cheap Bastard is referring to is the August 1970 issue of Motor Trend where the magazine let DeLorean write an article about the Chevy Vega. Cheap Bastard took the direct, hilarious quotes from DeLorean. I referenced them in my piece about the Cosworth Vega, and it’s worth repeating the other statements DeLorean said:
“By virtue of a number of different things, the Vega is going to be built at a quality level never before attained in manufacturing in this country, and probably in the world.”
“Today I would say that at Chevrolet we know more about handling than anybody else in the world. And I mean anybody else in the world including any of the guys that make racecars.”
Lewin wrote a review of the surprisingly expensive Fiat 500e Abarth. Joke #119! gave me a sensible chuckle with this:
Fun thing about it: with the sound off it sounds just like a Fiat from the 1960’s.
Also acceptable: continuous loop of cranking and not starting.I, too will consider one, in a few years and at least half off.
And now, let’s go back a day because I missed some great comments in the article about Elon Musk not wanting to sell a $25,000 Tesla. Permanentwaif opened the thread with:
So, anyway, basically, I think having a
regular 25K modelCybertruck is pointless. It would be silly. There, fixed it for you.
Boyd Sloane replied:
The CT is now profitable according to the 3rd quarter numbers.
Then the accountants came in, starting with Spikersaurusrex:
That sounds like a manipulation of the COGS based on amortizing the development and depreciating the tooling and over a less than conservative projection for total unit sales in the long term and it probably only holds up if sales continue at high levels. I don’t think they will.
Then Red865:
Accountants can make quarterly numbers say whatever the Chiefs want them to say…will catch up to them later, but still.
Spikersaurusrex returns:
As an accountant, I’ll say you’re correct.
Another accountant, NC Miata NA, concurs:
As another accountant, I have audited this statement and determined it was correct enough.
Spikersaurusrex:
In all material respects.
I now wonder how many accountants are in our readership. Have a great weekend, everyone!
Top graphic images: GM; Netflix
If only there were a well-represented group of people here who are good with numbers to figure that out.
This is funny in retrospect, but it’s almost certain Delorean was being earnest at the time he said this.
The Vega had inherent flaws, notably in the engine, but it was already assigned to Chevrolet just before Delorean had been given the division. He tried to make the best of it by assigning dozens of extra inspectors at Lordstown Assembly and things went decently well until General Motors Assembly Division took over. They fired some 700 workers, mostly those extra inspectors, and increased production from 60 to 100 cars an hour. Quality tanked, but at no fault to Delorean.
His legacy is as controversial now as it was then, but credit should be given where it’s due.
Falling Star: The Checkered History of the Chevrolet Vega < Ate Up With Motor
Ugh, that Cosworth ad has hit my resonant frequency and I would have been running for my checkbook. Even now…
my theory about JZD: when at GM/Pontiac, etc he had tons of great people working for him who just did the right thing without needing to be spoon fed and without even letting the boss know the problems. they just handled it. so JZD thought it was his genius that got him where he was. not his team. then he starts his own company based on his own genius. oops. all that crew in Detroit and GM bankroll is no longer there to smooth over all his mis-estimates. lack of genius exposed. still, i like JZD. could we say that the Vega was the vanguard of the malaise era? maybe we need to narrow down the first-in of that era… year wise it seems pre malaise. but reality wise… exactly malaise!
It’s worth remembering the Vega was one of the first GM cars that was designed centrally, and then handed to the divisions as a fait accompli. JZD knew it was a dog but did what he could to make it better and sell the hell out of it.
I’ve read a lot about JZD and while it’s clear he had flaws, he was just too worldly and maverick for a conservative company like GM. He just didn’t fit the mould of how they expected their executives to act, dress and behave. The main problem with the DMC, aside from it’s tortured development, was he got involved with Chapman, another chancer of the highest order.
Colin had to be furious that the government gave the American a blank check when they could have put that money into his business.
It was political because of the location of the factory – the idea of providing jobs to a deprived area of Northern Ireland at the height of The Troubles. Don’t worry, Chapman trousered plenty of it. Allegedly…
AFAIK it’s clear that Colin double billed the government and DeLorean for the work he did. Fred Bushell went to prison for his part.
Bushnell
DeLorean had trouble getting financing and a place to build the factory, so in steps the British government with money and a place—Northern Ireland—to help with unemployment and a bit of hoping to improve the peoples’ opinion of the government. Problem was that none of them were trained auto workers and many reportedly didn’t even own cars, so when they found it easier to do things like, cut weatherstripping into pieces to instal, it apparently didn’t occur to them that it could be a problem (or didn’t care). When the vehicles made it to port in NY, they’d need thousands in remedial repairs to make them salable and costs spiral on car building even with the best of luck and pessimistic forecasting (short of just saying, F it, there’s no way we can do it). I can’t remember the story of the engine, but it was not the first choice. Then there was the whole thing with embezzlement by Chapman. If he didn’t die with choice timing (or did he, conspiracy people?), he would have likely been sent to prison.
DeLorean had a massive ego and, while that can be a great source of inner drive, it’s easy for that to lead to overestimating ones’ abilities and causing one to take to desperate measures to avoid failure. Still, I have trouble condemning him for the cocaine affair (he was acquitted due to entrapment) because, while it’s certainly wrong, when staring down the barrel of either your dream failing or (possibly) not, it’s excessively tempting to take the offer to save it and I don’t think one needs to so much be a egomaniac for that to be the case. It’s kind of like a much less extreme version of the starving-in-a-lifeboat situation. I’d like to think I wouldn’t kill and eat a boat mate, but having gone through a period where I was literally starving, I cannot say that I wouldn’t do it with my mind in such a state and in such a situation. I got to the point where I was looking for insects to eat where I normally find them disgusting. Given a few more weeks and I have less doubt than I’d like that my mind wouldn’t have been like the cartoons where they picture the other character as a dressed and cooked turkey. Normally, I have no vices and can resist anything, but a presumably one-time thing to save a dream I worked my entire life to achieve (versus the ones I did have that were burnt to the waterline like Cortes’ boats long ago)? Not so sure.
Many years ago, I found myself on a flight sitting next to a guy who had been part of standing up the DMC factory. He said it was a huge lift and was proud of what they were able to accomplish in a very tight timeline. I also recall reading a book with a quote from someone at the DMC NJ facility describing the early cars arrived looking like a bomb went off inside them – crap just all over the place.
COTD! Yay! A bright star!
(Or maybe it’s two stars, there seems to be some confusion.)
https://en.m.wikiversity.org/wiki/Stars/Vega
You are spot on. A few things I wonder about are:
1. I seem to remember a story or book about Delorean where he says I wasn’t sold on the Vegas but then my bosses at GM cleared it up for me that the Vegas was the best thing ever.
2. I know his name and not much else. What I have read he was more marketing than design. So my maybe not expecting to much from him.
3. When he finally built his own ground up design it was a turd. Poor build quality a French engine capable of acceleration measured in days that he needed to resort to selling cocaine to finance it and only became a thing with a movie star role where his car traveled back in time but only after reaching 88 mph a feat it was not capable of doing.
Deloreans were produced in a short period of time that coincided with a short lived NHTSA mandate that speedometers couldn’t indicate a speed in excess of 85 mph. When people who don’t know about or remember that law see that the Delorean’s speedo tops out at 85 they assume it’s indicative of the car’s performance limitations, but that’s not the case. They can, actually, do 88 mph.
Accountants! There are dozens of us! I can attest to it (lol)
Dozens!
My grandfather, a former airline pilot, traded in his ’55 300SL for a Vega wagon when he retired and downsized. What an unrelenting pos – and this from a man who knew something about vehicle performance. It was in slow motion decline from the moment it left the lot, but he refused to admit he’d made a wrong choice. But he also let me drive his F100 when I was around 8, so he had a loose affinity for rational decisions.
> traded in his ’55 300SL for a Vega wagon
Oh my god
When JZD said this, it probably was true. But having theoretical knowledge and applying it to production cars are two very different things.
The Cybertruck was most likely profitable last quarter. They were finishing up fulfilling reservations, most of which down the line have cancelled. Amortizing out all the tooling and R&D for the next 5 years, so factor in 1/80th of the cost of making the thing fulfilling all the orders, yes it probably is in the black this quarter, By the end of the year, we shall see. Musk is done with the truck, now is hopes are the taxi. Huge fortunes in the automotive world were made on taxi fleets. I mean Ford was set for decades on the Crown Vic fleet in NY alone. Oh wait, they didn’t buy any new ones for what 20 years? Guess taxi fleets are not all that profitable. Nice to have a healthy imagination, lots of mood altering stuff and a regular Scrooge McDuck vault of money. He’s not lost in a fantasy, he’s rich. I so wish the much ballyhooded cage fight between him and Zuckerberg had actually happened. Now that would be news, not noise.
Nothing built is profitable if it is built well.
Given the Pontiac Tempest launched with IRS (thanks, Mona Lisa Vito!) During DeLorean’s tenure at Pontiac, that quote sounds a lot more like budget constraints forced a solid rear axle on the Vega, and he was obligated to speak positively of the decision. Big companies always make good decisions, you see, and you must never question or go against the decision, because it has been made by infallible people.
Not gonna lie, I find it kinda sad that John DeLorean’s legacy got so tarnished by the whole cocaine deal sting, despite having clearly been lured into the deal by a neighbour working with federal agents, and the fact that they were aware of him despeartely needing cash to keep DMC afloat.
Not trying to make him out to be a saint, pretty sure he was a difficult person, and it’s clear he put his failed business venture ahead of everything, including his family. But it’s still sad that a guy who had such a clear impact on american automotive industry ended up with a legacy that goes: 1. the failure of DMC; 2. COCAINE; 3. he did some stuff in Detroit.
So our readership is comprised of accountants and engineers. How on earth do we all get along around here?
No CEOs 🙂
The first rule of Autopian Fight Club – you don’t ask questions about Autopian Fight Club.
I’m an auditor and upset I didn’t make it to that thread in time. Alas.
You auditors always show up after the party is over.
Or we wrap up the party before the auditors show up.
Don’t worry, I’m disclosing your arrival in the notes as a subsequent event
Respectfully, go to hell
“I think that you’re going to see the expiration of independent rear suspension on all cars before long.”
Yeah, when it inevitably expires (falls) off the car
Yeah, maybe this was when he started using drugs
Once you’ve had the coke they serve the “C Suite Guys” you won’t go back to street grade.
How many accountants does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
N+1 accountant to audit the job.
Repeat until there are an infinite number of accountants, then go to a bar with an infinite number of mathematicians for four beers.
How does this group split the bill?
The auto manufacturers pay the bill.
Squirrel Nut Zippers, “The Suits Are Picking Up The Bill”.