Used car buyers are going cheap, NHTSA loses its boss, Hino gets sued over emissions. All this and more in today’s issue of The Morning Dump.
Welcome to The Morning Dump, bite-sized stories corralled into a single article for your morning perusal. If your morning coffee’s working a little too well, pull up a throne and have a gander at the best of the rest of yesterday.
Cheap Cars Are Back In High Demand
After nearly two years of unsustainable used car prices, it seems like we’ve reached a turning point in the marketplace. Between higher interest rates and inflation, Automotive News reports that used car shoppers are paying less and getting less.
“We’re seeing demand shift to lower price points,” Group 1 Automotive CEO Earl Hesterberg said late last month. That shift is happening most prominently among middle-class consumers and those buying mass-market brand and used vehicles, McHenry said.
Michigan dealer Aaron Zeigler called vehicles priced from $10,000 to $15,000 “the hottest part of the market right now.”
With used vehicle wholesale prices still massively elevated compared to pre-pandemic levels, this means consumers are demanding older vehicles. It’s their only way to get reasonably-priced wheels. Typically, consumers buy vehicles that are newer than their existing vehicles, in better condition than their existing vehicles, or fit their needs better than their existing vehicles. However, a decrease in buying power due to inflation seems to be negatively impacting typical late-model used vehicle demand, so it’s entirely possible that this price-conscious shift could have huge ramifications for the bottom end of the used car market. Either people are trading in some proper hoopties, or consumers are making more lateral moves and trading their old cars for newer, yet still old cars.
In addition, this shift could really affect dealerships who have been holding on to higher-value vehicles as unprecedented used car appreciation became normalized through 2021. Holding inventory that’s becoming less desirable is generally bad for margins, and it doesn’t help that vehicles in this recently-hot $10,000 to $15,000 range are very difficult to come by. “We would be selling a lot more if we could buy a lot more,” Hesterberg told Automotive News. “Like all used cars, they’re scarce, but the lower-priced used cars are the most scarce.”
In summation, the used car market is on a really bumpy path to close out 2022. Consumers are getting less for their money due to inflation and higher interest rates impacting buying power, dealerships are having a hard time finding affordable cars, and everyone is feeling the squeeze. On the bright side, it must be pretty great to be Mitsubishi right now, offering a brand new car with air conditioning for $15,975 including a $1,045 freight charge. Maybe we all just need Mitsubishi Mirages?
NHTSA Loses Its Boss Within Three Months Of Appointment
Change may be inevitable, but it can sometimes happen in an alarmingly short period of time. Reuters reports that NHTSA administrator Steven Cliff is stepping down from his position after less than three months in the administrator role.
Cliff is a former deputy executive officer at CARB and will become executive officer at CARB effective Sept. 12. He was the first Senate-confirmed NHTSA administrator since January 2017.
Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said NHTSA’s chief counsel, Ann Carlson, will assume Cliff’s duties when he departs. Carlson was previously co-director of UCLA Law’s Emmett Institute on Climate Change and the Environment.
Cliff said in a statement he was honored to work with agency staff “on a series of measures that will make vehicles more fuel efficient and safer for all Americans.”
Short talent retention at the top isn’t a good look for NHTSA, especially when the administrator position was previously vacant for years. As of right now, we don’t really know who will fill the administrator role. Senate confirmation can take a long time and while Carlson is expected to assume duties, strong leadership can sometimes take more than mere duties. A figurehead definitely helps with public presence and NHTSA has been one of those back-of-mind government agencies for years in the eyes of the general public.
NHTSA Looks Into Reports Of Ford Fusion Braking System Failure
The last thing you’d expect in a modern car is a sudden reduction in stopping power. Brake line failure is one of those stereotypical evil henchman things you see in movies, but this cliché can prove very real indeed. Automotive News reports that a NHTSA probe has been opened into braking system failures on Ford Fusions and Lincoln MKZs.
NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation said it had received 50 complaints alleging such failures on Fusion and MKZ vehicles from the 2013-18 model years and was aware of one crash allegedly related to the issue.
Many of the complaints claim “the brake hoses are rupturing, leaking brake fluid and occurring with little to no warning,” according to a report released Friday.
Front brake hose ruptures and leaking brake fluid can result in increased stopping distances, the agency said.
Holy crap. While I’ve definitely heard of rubber brake hoses failing internally, ruptured hoses on late-model vehicles are incredibly concerning. Even on most seriously clapped-out shitboxes, brake hoses generally hold on for absolute ages. It’s not uncommon for rust belt vehicles to require new hard lines before new brake hoses are needed. While dual-circuit brakes help bring a vehicle to a stop should one line rupture, a sudden lack of braking power is a serious safety issue. Needless to say, we’ll be watching this story closely as a possible supplier-level defect might have farther-reaching consequences.
Hino Faces Class-Action Lawsuit Over Emissions Shenanigans
The saga of Hino continues. Earlier this month, a report came out in which the Japanese commercial vehicle manufacturer admitted to falsifying emissions records dating back to 2003. With that revelation out in the open, Hino opened the door for potential legal action, both in criminal and civil courts. While any criminal cases might take some time to launch, Reuters reports that Hino is facing a class-action lawsuit in America for its alleged emissions misdeeds.
The case, in the Southern District of Florida, has been filed on behalf of those who bought or leased 2004-2021 model year Hino trucks in the United States, the company said in a statement.
The complaint does not say how much the plaintiffs seek to recover but mentioned that the aggregate amount concerned exceeded a threshold of $5 million for the court to have jurisdiction, the company said.
While this class-action suit will take a while to work through the courts and likely end in a settlement, it marks a turning point for Hino’s emissions saga. This first case of civil litigation is likely only the tip of the iceberg, and Hino could experience more legal exposure. If you want to read a bit more about the circumstances that led to nearly two decades of emissions lies, click this link to read a report from a previous Morning Dump.
The Flush
Whelp, time to drop the lid on today’s edition of The Morning Dump. We’re getting back into weekday mode after the Autopian’s car show in Los Angeles, and what an exciting week it is. Before we get to some of the stuff you’ll see later this week, I’d love to ask you a question. Where do you want us to hold a car show next? The Lane Motor Museum and the Detroit auto show are logical next steps, but I’d love to know if there are any awesome regions we might be forgetting about.
Lead photo credit: Toyota
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Hey, Autopia, I’m a little shocked that there’s no mechanism to report these spammers or their spam.
A block button would be nice too.
Although to be honest I would prefer a button that called in a drone strike.
Maybe they relaxed the rules for posting with links? I’ll test it!
Here is a random link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/16/japan-beachgoers-warned-to-steer-clear-of-dolphins-after-spate-of-attacks
Yep, we complained of the moderation on posts with links, and now we’ll have to deal with them spammers :-/
Growing pains, I suppose. At least we are being noticed!
“Senate confirmation can take a long time”
They need to make these people sign an employment contract or something. You can’t just make the senate go through these confirmation hearings and then quit 3 months later.
I second this as the other clevelander here. Hell, I will make a fb group and leave it open for anyone to join. I can pull a few hundred car friends out of my ass any given weekend with nice weather.
Join on fb: Ohio Autopians, if you build it they will come
If you guys could host one in the Chicagoland area or somewhere closeish, that’d be pretty rad.
Though Detroit’s not too far from where I live.
Buying any car new or used is like buying cable. You have to buy 10 things to get the 1 or 2 you want. Economics teaches us in an era of high demand low supply prices go up. When money loses it’s value as when the government is giving away or even spending faster than they can print it prices go up.
The whole farm to table concept is a scam. How do you get fruits and vegetables within 10 miles when you have city 25 miles in every direction and 3 feet of snow? How do you get a large enough variety to provide your bodies need when most areas grow like 3 crops?
I think the world would be a better place if people stopped and thought for 10 minutes before posting.
Im… sadly old enough to remember when I had 10+ cars I really wanted to look at — 2-3 to buy in that group.
I also remember.. when the cars were ” better” than the ones before…. this current crop of crap isnt better:
In a current vehicle, you cant get a throttle cable, hyd steering, a set of analog instrument gauges, a shifter.. (forget a manuel one). You do get a raft of crap nop one needs.. like wireless charging and 10″ screens for all. Then ya got security issues, longevity issues.. and the lack of.. BEING ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT.. WHEN THE FUCK YOU WANT TO DO IT!
My device was paid off on schedule… and the cockmunchers i.e verizon, comcast or whomever else SENT ME A TEXT MSG TO OFFER ME A DEAL ON A NEW DEVICE! Its taken me 2+yrs to finally be able to rig this damn thing to do as I ask.. when I ask it to do it. (Then I saw some ad recently about how Samsung / Apple both are pushing towards split screen devices.)
Look…
Im a simple man. I know what I want and how I want it. My device is not my car and a Phone isnt a device.
In short…
I will not go quietly into that GOODNITE.
I got a 2012 Prius v with 116,000 miles in late 2019 for $11,000 from a dealership. 15,000 miles later, and last year a dealership quoted me $10,000. I imagine it’s still holding the value really well.
Meantime, my hope for buying a conversion van as a second vehicle for cheap has been thoroughly crushed for a while now…
Next show? Northeast/New England area. There are quite a few snow survivors and I could bring on myself.
Future show sites: How about a winter show in Central Texas? January and February generally have better weather than much of the rest of the nation, and even if we do get a cold snap, it never stays freezing for more than a week.
The Hill Country has some great driving roads, and at that time of year, there are far fewer tourists clogging up the roads. And being this far south, we have 10-11 hrs of daylight in these months.
I know that Texas politics turns some people sour on the state (justifiably so), but the Austin/San Antonio area is way more tolerant than the idiots currently holding office.
In addition, you could probably lure some old co-workers (Stef, Alanis) out. Maybe you could even work out a deal to rent COTA for the day!
Ford had a similar front brake hose recall about a year ago for the Edge. I took my wife’s car in to deal with the recall, and they had run out of parts. After they apologized profusely, I rescheduled for a couple of weeks later. The front right brake hose blew about a week later (before the new appointment), and they ended up having to tow it to the dealership. If you have a car impacted, please take this recall seriously.
well if it’s “impacted” it might be too late to take it to the dealer 🙂
Stagnant wages and raising prices mean people have less to spend so a cheap car is more affordable and is either a step up from a beater or a necessary move from a car that needs to be replaced. I am happy to not participate in the used car market right now unless my good car is totaled or stolen. I also don’t care about image or more honestly take perverse pride in driving a battered 20 year old car in fancy neighborhoods. For me the surprise was how many cheap air cooled Beetles were on Craigslist last week.
Wages are not stagnant. In fact, salaries have risen on average considerably in response to the tight labor market. You’re right about the rest though, and car prices are insane right now.
Yeah, my company did a 10% cost of living adjustment a few months ago. Ad in, every single worker got a 10% raise. No stagnation here.
Seth please see livingwage.com. And realize that for may the rate of wage increases have not kept up with the inflation rate, in fact the current level of ‘poverty’ in the US has actually been on the rise for a couple years.
I think we have to assume that the car market will gradually return to normal after 3 or 4 years and proceed on that premise. Given the absurd prices on new cars right now it therefor makes sense NOT to buy a new car now. The best decision is to just keep yer ol clunker alive by whatever means necessary but if you can’t, the next best decision is NOT to buy an expensive used car either. Buy the cheapest used thing you can reasonably expect will last the 3 or 4 years it takes for prices to become more reasonable, and bank the money you’d be spending on payments in the meantime. I have to say that a new Mitsubishi in the $15K range probably wouldn’t be any worse (only kind of kidding here) than a used car for the same price. I would have to swallow pretty hard at paying Additional Dealer Markup on one though….
Why one location? The Autopian staff needs to plan a coast-to-coast roadtrip! I’m sure Mercedes has a bus you can all cram into to make the trek.. think of the shenanigans!
Or just come to Texas, maybe the Texas Motor Speedway?
I second this. Cool, older museum and lots to do in that area.
Detroit is still motor city and a show at the Ford museum would be very cool, maybe even woodward avenue. , but many Midwest towns would be pretty great, Des Moines Iowa has a big car crowd, they have big open spaces and the crime is not as bad as other Midwest towns. not perfect mind you, but not terrible either.
Another LA or Bay Area show would be great… preferably with more than a week’s notice (seriously). If you’re brave (and we know Autopians are brave), you can have the show in Central California and draw a crowd from both NorCal and SoCal.
Somewhere in the Northeast Corridor would be nice, but it’s probably not super practical since y’all are in LA.
For the love of all that’s holy PLEASE HOLD A SHOW AT LANE MUSEUM!!!! And give us enough advance to plan ahead to make it! I would love to take my car to a show there and check out that place!
Agreed! That would be awesome to get a southeasterly show.
My lease (I never do leases, but it’s an Alfa and I didn’t want to put a ring on it) is up next summer, and I am not looking forward to dealing with the car market. Hope some of this crap will be somewhat sorted by then (not holding my breath though).
Anyhow if you guys could find your way up to Northern New England at some point I’d be there.
I mean, some people are buying out their leases so they can make money by reselling it. Maybe that would be in your favor if things stay the same with our current situation.
Central North Carolina! Torch is already here, and you can get in with VinFast at their new site!
Gotta bump it to Western NC……great mountain driving roads…..
But, I know it will never happen outside of the triangle area……
Second central NC.
Have a meetup on Mercedes’ home turf next time!
Surely there are lots of us in the greater Chicago area, and we are centrally located for those who don’t mind a bit of a drive.
For those of us living on the other side of The Great Corn Chasm / Middle Earth / the Midwest, Denver also makes for a great, relatively central meeting place. Lots of great mountain roads for group trips too!
I’d love to see a good meetup in the PNW region. Washington, Oregon, Idaho, or even Montana would be nice. I’d still struggle to justify going, since I have nothing cool to bring, but it would be nice to see what interesting things people around here bring.
Are we surprised to hear that automakers were lying about emissions and gas mileage for the past 20 years? The pressures were high to get that extra edge, with no repercussions foreseen until people were well on their way to the next job or three.
Used cars in the $10-$15k range fucking suck right now, though. We’re talking about 15-year-old vehicles with well over 100k on the clock, and which were never anything special to begin with—the kind of thing that would have been like $5k a few years ago. Of course, if you try to step up to something recent with low mileage, you’re paying more than the MSRP on a brand new one. And if you want a new car, well, good fucking luck.
The whole car market just blows.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. It’s not an easy time to be an automotive enthusiast. As hobbies or passions go, it’s always been a labor of love without consideration of cost, but these days the costs are high and many.
Honestly, my biggest problem with being a car enthusiast is coming to the idea that cars just suck in general. The way we design our cities around cars makes no sense and I’d be much happier if I could just walk or ride my bike to get everything I need in a 2 mile radius.
Even the Electric car revolution still has the problem of cars being cars. Tires are still noisy, cities are still busy with traffic, making it difficult to walk or ride and everything is designed so you NEED to have a car.
Don’t get me wrong, I still love my cars. I just bought $700 worth of Camshaft and Valvetrain for my engine rebuild and I regularly wrench on my daily Van, but man life would probably be better without cars.
*Needing* cars sucks. Cars would be so much cooler if you didn’t pretty much need one to get around in the US. Not to mention there’d be less traffic for those of us who like a nice drive.
It does seem a bit paradoxical, doesn’t it?
I first got into cars because my family was poor and I never got a chance to experience a lot of different vehicles. The sheer amount of variety and uniqueness in terms of design, interior and exterior, unique powertrains with their own character flukes and foibles, it was very intriguing to me. Some of my best memories with my own cars was the thrill of the hunt or just baselining them for use. Each car presented dozens of little projects wrapped into one interesting package. As I took a bite out of each to-do item, I felt a sense of pleasure and accomplishment, invariably learning more as well.
Eventually, though, the juice became no longer worth the squeeze. When you’ve owned as many vehicles as I have in times past, a lot of what was once new or interesting becomes commonplace and repetitious. Newer, modern cars certainly don’t spark that curiosity, now that they’re so homogenous in design and execution.
Long way of saying, sometimes I wonder if there’s a point to what you’re saying.
100% right. 10-15k has always been my sweet spot for buying used cars with cash. It always used to get me a nice car about 5ish years old with anywhere from 70-110k on the odometer. And those cars have run for another 75k miles with minor work needed.
This year would have been when I do that same exercise. Looking for a minivan. Goooood luck. A 5 year old minivan with under 100k miles is now well north of 20k. For 10-15k, now I’m looking at a 10 year old minivan with 120k miles.
It’s completely ridiculous. We’ve decided to just wait it out and make our current 2 cars (midsize sedan and the eponymous 2-seater) work until the market cools. I’m not paying 15k for a 2012 Odyssey.
My current car is financed, and right now it is worth more than I owe on it. The problem of course is that if I sold it, I wouldn’t be able to find anything to replace it.
My mother recently went through the same thing. She was t-boned by a red-light runner (she’s fine), but even with the insurance settlement there were no cars around for her to buy. By sheer dumb luck, the dealer she was working with received a trade-in that was the exact car she was looking for, and he didn’t gouge her on it. So she was able to replace her car with a used one of the same model year. But I would not count on that kind of luck for myself…
I’ve made peace with the fact that my two-car fleet is staying as-is for (at least) another half-decade because of this market; if automakers are only building luxury SUVs with their limited raw material supply now, that’s what will mostly be available on the used market for the next 3-5 years.
The Miata is a forever car, so that’s fine. But my actually-useful has 150k miles and Nissan’s hilariously-unreliable Jatco transmission from their golden era of “we’re still trying to figure out how to design and build these things, so here’s an extended warranty, good luck and godspeed.” (please don’t judge me for the purchase. I didn’t know anything about cars at the time). No amount of wrenching skill can save you money when a transmission with no available genuine replacement parts decides its watch has ended.
I’d FAR rather pay 16K for a Mirage than 40+K for anything new. Maybe because I’m an old, but all my car needs to be is nicer and more convenient than the bus. This whole idea of “it needs to be a super nice place to spend time” is weird to me.
Amen to that. I’m always amazed for instance at the strange-when-you-think-about-it feature of carpet continues to be standard in almost every vehicle sold (yeah, the exceptions are badass I know).
I mean very few of us take our shoes off in our rides. In fact, I’m willing to be most people here don’t even let their passengers take their shoes off (b/c they might be then tempted to put said feet on non-floor surfaces…)
When I ordered my truck, a premium vinyl floor was offered in every trim up to and including Platinum ($80,000 trucks). I bought it in my King Ranch, because snow, salt, and mud really suck to clean out of carpet.
That’s an option I’d be willing to pay for in just about any vehicle (why does our minivan have carpet that kids can spill on???!!!), but alas, it doesn’t seem to be widely offered.
That’s so they can sell you the “all weather” floor mats on top of it!
I am also an old.
Depends on your market. In LA traffic is bad, and it gets very hot, and a lot of the city (not all) will judge your worth on your car.
So, if you’re doing long hauls and you want people to think you have money/power then a ‘nice’ ride is essential.
I just stepped down from a Range Rover to a Mini Clubman (the suicide door) and the first two weeks the way people treated me on the road and in public here was a Larry David episode.
I live in Newport Beach. Well, NB is basically across the street. A Range Rover is nothing here. Hell, even a loaded Urus won’t get you parked in front. So, it’s stupid to play that game here IMO. And the ac works just fine in my DD, which cost less than half of one car payment for the majority of these fools.
The Spark still shows up on Chevy’s website. I’d go for one of these before a Mirage.
I know you can probably get a Mirage with a stick though. So I guess technically, I’m buying the cheapest car with a stick. Versa maybe?
I showed up at a local used car dealer with a goat and an obsidian knife, nobody seemed to know about the sacrifice deal though
You have to wear the goat’s head pentagram medallion discreetly, and use the secret handshake, or they won’t know you to be a member of the Legion of the Damned, and cut you the specail deals. In fact, waving the obsidian knife blade around is a strict no-no. Definitely would get you ignored completely.
I’m putting a Baphomet hood ornament and pentagram wheel discs on my microcar, but I’m not interested in their overpriced used cars. I’m all up for participating in another ritualistic sacrifice though.