One of the huge concerns about electric vehicles is the longevity of their batteries. They’re commonly accused of only lasting for a few years before their capacity declines beneath useful levels. Anecdotes aren’t data, by any means, but a strong counter-example comes in the form of this 430,000-mile Tesla Model S. Let’s have a look at how the battery held up, and how everything else held up, too.
AutoTrader presenter Rory Reid introduces us to the vehicle in question. It’s a facelifted 2016 Tesla Model S P90D, which racked up those 430,000 miles in taxi duty. And joy of joys, the four-door workhorse was put up on a lift for a full health check to show us all what that kind of mileage does to a modern EV.
As you might expect, it’s a little worse for wear after such a long innings. Details like the failing daytime running lights, damaged wipers, and gouged bonnet are quick signs of its age.
[Ed Note: I’d just like to actually show some of these issues because I find them interesting. Here you can see the DRLs failing:
Matt Cleevely, the EV repair expert featured in the AutoTrader Youtube video, says it’s fairly common to see: “You can see the brows are failing on the daytime running lights. That’s a common fault. Both headlights are the same,” he said, saying the fix would be to swap both headlights for a total of 1800 pounds or roughly $2300.
The wiper issue is also worth showing, because the thing actually chews into the hood!:
“The wiper spindle wears in the wiper linkage…it only happens on the driver’s one, but due to its proximity..close to the bonnet here, it actually eats its way in on operation,” says Cleevely. “So You can see it’s cut this groove out of the bonnet.” The repair for the linkage would be £250 plus an £800 or £900 hood, per Cleevely. That’s pushing $1,400.
Also interesting is what looks like some kind of delamination in the giant touchscreen:
“One thing I noticed: it’s on 21s. They aren’t very strong… I can’t imagine it’s done 400,000 miles on those wheels,” Cleevely notes. He also says the horns tend to fail, as the one in the 400,000+ mile featured vehicle did. Interesting. -DT]
Regardless, much of the body has held up well, including the rear taillight seals, which we’re told is a particular pain point on older models. But what of the electrics and mechanicals?
More concerning is the play in the steering, which would be a MOT inspection fail in the UK where the car lives. Some of the suspension bushings are showing their age, too, with some wiggle evident when the car is checked up on a lift. The dashboard also warned of a worn fuse attached to the battery, which was due for service. That’s this thing, which has its own service cover built into the high-voltage battery box:
That’s because the pyro fuse inside the Tesla battery pack has a small battery of its own which is critical to its operation. That battery runs out after eight years or so, requiring a replacement of the fuse unit. Later Tesla models avoided this with a self-powered fuse which needs no battery of its own.
You might expect the Model S’s service mode to have all the juicy data, but that’s not the case for this model. The first-generation MCU (Media Control Unit) doesn’t allow for an easy battery diagnostic check. Instead, that’s achieved via an external remote diagnostic app called Tessie. The report stated the battery’s current health was at 76.9%, or roughly 23.1% degraded versus new. Current capacity was reported as 64.9 kWh for an estimated range of 216 miles
A more rigorous test from EV health tester Altelium recorded the battery’s “state of health” at 72%. Compared with other Teslas of similar age, the report stated this example was “Above Average,” with an estimated range of 190 miles in highway conditions, or a more impressive 293 miles in city conditions where the benefits of regenerative braking kick in. Indeed, in a road test back in June, this Model S did show a level of degradation along those lines. It achieved 186.8 miles on a single charge in mixed weather conditions on the motorway before it died. The video doesn’t give us the original stated range of the model, but the EPA rated it at 315 miles as new in its full test cycle.
It’s a commonly-held belief by many owners that Tesla’s cars (and other EVs) don’t need service. Because they’re EVs, right?! And yet, that’s anything but the case. It’s true that they don’t need regular oil changes on sub-10,000 mile intervals, and that their brakes can last for eons longer than on ICE vehicles. But that’s not to say there’s nothing worth checking on longer time periods.
A particularly good example is the obvious oil leak from the rear drive unit on this Model S. The motors and gears need lubrication, and it’s worth checking—and even changing—the oil in the unit every 80,000 to 90,000 miles or so, per Cleevely “A lot of people, including the owner of this vehicle, look at Tesla, who say to them, there is no service requirement for your vehicle, and they think, I’m never gonna service it,” says Reid. “But clearly, there are parts in there that would benefit from being serviced.”
Ultimately, the proof is in the EV pudding. With almost half a million miles on the clock, this Tesla can still rack up hundreds of miles without complaint. Obviously, it’s only eight years old, and it’s safe to say that it has never lived in a hot climate, but it’s one car that proves that EV batteries aren’t the fragile, easily worn time bombs that so many naysayers would have you believe. Don’t buy into the nonsense!
Image credits: AutoTrader via YouTube screenshot
How did they not hear the clicking of that wiper arm tapping into the hood on EVERY cycle? It must have been noticeable since there is no engine noise to hide the sound.
“ an estimated range of 190 miles in highway conditions, or a more impressive 293 miles in city conditions where the benefits of regenerative braking kick in.”
It’s not the regen braking, it’s that kinetic energy goes up with the square of the velocity. Double the velocity and you quadruple the energy required. Higher speeds=much worse range.
What regen braking does is minimise the energy lost when you stop. It still gives less range than if you didn’t stop, because thermodynamics.
Nah, the real enemy of freeway range is drag. That also goes up with the square of velocity, but it’s a constant drain the entire time the car is moving. You can’t recover any of the power you spent fighting drag through regen.
Not looking for a fight, I swear.
Isn’t Captain Muppet referring to just that with the kinetic energy argument? A Cd of anything other than zero is calculated into that energy requirement.
For any drive that a person may be on, ceteris paribus, the only thing they can control is their speed. I don’t know the SAE standard for ‘highway driving’ as a speed or series of speeds, but 55 is a far cry from 80 in terms of energy requirements. For the purpose of the equation, Cd and vehicle mass are constant. D is pretty much the only thing one is overcoming… So F must equal or exceed D. His mention of KE meets yours by having to equal D.
I think, rather than offering a counterpoint, you may be vehemently agreeing with him….
When I hear “kinetic energy” specifically I’m thinking of the basic kinetic energy calculation of K=.5MV^2. That only comes into play during the initial acceleration, and is where the returned energy from regen ultimately comes from.
The total vehicle demand energy does of course include a drag term (and rolling resistance, and drivetrain friction, yadda yadda). At a steady, freeway velocity the drag term dominates total VDE and incurs a lot of power draw, but K isn’t actually changing because M and V aren’t. That energy is, quite literally, being thrown to the wind rather than added to the car’s stored kinetic energy that can be regenerated later.
I was scrabbling for an equation with v^2 in it and that’s the one I remembered first. Aero drag is the thing I should have thought of.
In my defence I’m even stupider in real life.
Very impressive. I still not interested in getting one, but this example does prove the case for evs.
Well put. I was looking for ways to say something nice when I couldn’t say anything at all, and you got there first.
I won’t try to shit on the fact this things needs amazingly little service after 430k miles. I still just don’t want my EV to be a Tesla.
I will never own a tesla. As to any other ev, I’m waiting for better infrastructure, sane pricing and some maturity from the industry. At the moment, it appears to be the same kind of rough and tumble attitude that was prevalent during the initial transportation gold rush that saw steam ic, diesel, and bev fighting it out for market. Expectations, promises and government intervention are too high for the state of the technology and infrastructure.
Ford Lightning doesn’t meet my towing needs. I am ready for the mid-point, and REALLY want the Ram PHEV to be good, so much so that I have a reservation.
I do not believe it will be good.
I’m not big on electric cars, but this is pretty impressive. Yes, that’s only over eight years but c’mon. That’s a lot of miles. I would never have expected any Tesla to do that well.
Logically it is a counterexample to the phrase “All EV batteries are fragile, easily worn time bombs…”
No one is saying they all are. Lots of people say that they’d rather not risk the chance of randomly getting one.
Taxi duty is probably actually a lot milder on ICE vehicles than just regular daily driving in a lot of ways. With EVs if one assumes a lot of fast charging then that is rather different. But still as someone else noted, if you accrue big miles in a short number of years it’s a lot easier than the same number of miles over twice the years. People underestimate how much time wears out a car even if not driven a ton.
Fast charging was once theorized to stress batteries, but now we have data: Teslas that fast charge more then 90% of the time have the same battery health as ones that slow charge more than 90% of the time.
https://www.batterytechonline.com/charging/report-supercharging-doesn-t-degrade-tesla-battery-life
How many sets of tires did it chew through?
People are way too impressed by high mileage when it’s put on quickly. While that’s definitely not a non-factor and 450k is impressive, in cases like this where a vehicle gets something like this average of 56k miles/year, age is a bigger indicator of health and this car is only 8 years old. When you put miles on quickly, everything lasts longer, including things that one would probably think wore out a given mileage regardless, like suspension components.
Regardless of timetable high mileage for an EV means a lot of charge cycles which has an impact on battery health so this is a kind of an interesting anecdote.
Rule of thumb I’ve heard is 2% capacity loss per year so the 23% loss in 8 years being above average was a bit of a shock to me.
Maybe 8 years used like a cab is like 12 years as a commuter car. Actually I would expect far worse.
I think the rule of thumb is based on age alone degrading the battery, but obviously actually using the battery degrades it as well.
Capacity loss is much more driven by usage than time passing. Can’t drive this 50k miles per year and expect it’s going to still only degrade the same 2% as an average driver.
Degradation of EV batteries is dependent on charging cycles, age, and temperature. That 2% rule of thumb is most likely based on driving 10-12K miles per year. Quadrupling that mileage is absolutely going to impact the battery wear. The fact that it only added about 10% degradation at 4X the mileage is actually pretty impressive. I’m sure the UK’s milder temps compared to Wisconsin or Arizona helped a lot.
Since it was used as a Taxi, I’m going to bet it was fast-charged a lot. I believe that is a bit harder on the battery than Level 2 charging.
The data is in, and fast charging is fine: https://www.batterytechonline.com/charging/report-supercharging-doesn-t-degrade-tesla-battery-life
*sigh*
Well, it is data in that the upper bound is greater than how far this car has traveled.
It would be helpful to know the average air temp of where this car lived. Less thermal stress could be a significant factor in battery health test results.
It’s in the UK, so mostly between -5C and 25C.
I’d convert to Fahrenheit but that’s a scale based on the melting point of one particular mix of antifreeze and a temperature that’s close to, but not within, the range of acceptable human internal temperatures, due to Fahrenheit guessing wrong, and is therefore unsuitable for science.
By the same token, this is the one car that also proves all Teslas will eat their hoods with the wipers.
My Grandpa used to drive limos to take people to and from the airport so I’ve gotten to spend some time in Lincoln Town Cars with over 500,000km and they were beat. Neglect, heavy careless usage and idling all night long yet they were still going strong.
I have a theory that cars like this just need to keep going, as soon as they stop they break.
Your theory sounds like some of the retired folks I know. https://www.phillytrib.com/news/health/tips-to-be-fit-early-retirement-may-lead-to-earlier-death/article_a160f627-8b31-5af8-a095-611c53434e03.html
Clearly those people worked to live AND lived to work. My advice?
Get a life!
Never knew Rory went to work for AutoTrader. Hmm
Despite the overly harped on issues of panel fitment, general build quality, and the like, this seems to have actually held up well compared to expectations. Of course there’s the weird stuff like the wipers, but in all honesty, short of the cliché pinnacle of longevity vehicles (Toyotas, Hondas, GMT800s, etc) this seems to have held up far better than nearly other vehicle on the road would, even if it is relatively new.
430k miles is a very large amount, and even if only half of that was on Taxi duty, that’s a lot of abuse compared to normal ownership. It really seems like outside of well-known design issues with the Model S of this vintage, and deferred maintenance like bushings and fluids, there’s no reason this wouldn’t drive for another several hundred thousand more miles.
This is really not only a testament to the fact that EV batteries have far more life in them than the general public assumes, but also the the simplicity in the drivetrains really do have big lifetime advantages over ICE cars. Show me a Ford, Chevy, or Stellantis ICE/Hybrid vehicle from the last decade that would do this many hard miles without catastrophic repairs, I’ll wait.
Crown Vic taxi would and did, and still have 100% of its original fuel tank capacity
Technically yes, but the last crown vic was made 13 years ago, and was 5 years old when this model S was out. My point was more that it’s contemporaries that could actually be used as Taxis per company policies would actually suffice. Technically Uber is 15 year max age, NYC yellow cab is I believe 7. All this to say, as a vehicle someone would actually be able to use. I’d also be curious to compare running costs of this Model S to a Crown Vic over so long to see the breakeven point due to cheaper fuel and maintenance savings supersede depreciation.
I promise you no other Ford Sedan made since the death of the Crown Vic could reliably go half of the 430k as this model S. I have a friend with a 2019 fusion, at 62k miles, and the damn thing had to get towed to a dealership within the last month because the stupid dial shifter mechanism broke due to a cheap plastic grommet shattering. Then you’ve got the Focus/Fiesta Power Shift transmission fiasco, numerous other recalls for just about every model, and generally accepted poor quality.
That’s very true, the Panthers were the last passenger cars with that level of “put gas in it and change the oil occasionally, and it will go forever” durability and were an anachronism for the majority of their production run. I know for a long time, Lincoln Town Cars had some weird exception to Uber’s age limit, but I’d expect they’ve dropped that now.
They are still hanging on as taxis in areas without age limits, as well as a few sprinkled into police fleets, but they are dropping out fast
And to an even more extreme extent, the huge number of W123’s still running around on battered taxi duty in Europe and Africa. I just think with the ever increasing complexity with ICE vehicles coming from tighter and tighter emissions regulations worldwide, EVs are quickly becoming a better option for longevity in the new vehicle front. We’ve effectively already seen this born true with passenger diesel cars, where the cost and complexity is too much for the average consumer, and hybrids and EVs have taken over (ignoring dieselgate’s impacts of course)
This of course assumes a lot, and with how many EVs are still in that awkward “first generation, growing pains” phase, I’d wager we’re far from that, save for Tesla who has over a decade of powertrain refinement under its belt. for example I’d hardly trust a new EV Challenger to make it to 300k miles, but I think the next wave of EVs in around 10 years should cross that threshold pretty solidly.
I guess they were technically hatchbacks, but my ’12 Focus SE with a 5MT ran like new and looked 1/8 its age with over 200k miles on it when it was totaled and would embarrass a Corolla for reliability and build quality. ST did 180k in about the same manner. Lesson here: get the manual. My ’08 Camry, OTOH, was a falling-apart POS by 195k and felt like a Hyundai with twice the mileage, though that was also a manual (no transmission problem besides a blown mount).
Yeah, it won’t lose fuel capacity, but it won’t do the same 19 mpg it did new after 400k miles. Both ICEs and EVs lose some autonomy range as they get older.
Also, OP was talking about catastrophic mechanical failures, and Crown Vics had lots of troubles with transmission slipping, blown head gaskets and dead fuel pumps, not to mention the small electric stuff.
The hard truth for EV fanboys and ICE enthusiasts is that both kinds of powertrains have their own shortcomings and advantages, and the best one comes up to what are the owners needs.
Yeah that’s true, and I’m hardly an EV fanboy, but I do believe EVs make a great solution for shorter trip Taxis as shown here. There’s always a tradeoff, like with the Crown Vic, you get pretty bad gas mileage, and typical ICE car wear, but with the benefit of wide parts availability, and that any shop in the country can fix it.
On the flip side with the Model S, it will need far far less servicing, which for a taxi is a big deal, as is much lower fueling/energy costs, however should a battery or motor die, its a very pricey endeavor, with a much much narrower pool of shops to fix it.
I do genuinely believe as infrastructure and EV specific repairs and maintenance cycles get better understood, the EV will gradually become the superior option for the majority (likely never all) vehicle use cases. I understand why it isn’t for many people, myself included, but an EV taxi seems like a really compelling option at the moment, Model S or otherwise.
Easy, Escape Hybrid. They at least used to be listed as one of the vehicles most likely to cross 300k miles without significant trouble.
Also, you said “vehicle” so I’ll toss out the F250 and Chevy 2500 gassers. They routinely turn huge numbers of miles. Some will run into catastrophic repairs, but most won’t.
I should have been more specific in my comment that I was more referring to Taxi-adjacent vehicles, so trucks specifically not applying, however those class with gas engines are extremely reliable and I can’t argue with that. As for the Escape Hybrid, I didn’t realize they were rated well, my only reference is a colleague who had one for about 2 years before dumping it because it was horrendous to drive, and he had several CELs pop up for dumb issues. As an NPC car, or taxi, or basic family car, they’re a solid value compared to CRV/Rav4 Hybrids which start far higher than the Escape Hybrid, so I will give it that.
The last Panther taxi I rode in (roughly 10 years ago) was a jiggly, rattling mess that felt like it was going to run itself into a guardrail at any moment. Every linkage felt like it was hand tightened and every bushing felt blown. The thing listed and swayed more than a dinghy on the high seas in a hurricane. It was actually a terrifying cab ride