Value is as subjective a term as exists, so try not to roll your eyes as I — on Bloomberg Radio — insist that both the $130k+ Porsche 911 T and the $22k+ Chevy Trax can both, simultaneously, represent a good value. They are both different cars serving different purposes and, yet, you’d be hard priced to get something as good from any other automaker for the same price.
Above is a video of me, Paul Sweeney, and car nerd/Bloomberg anchor/financial journalist/Autopian member Matt Miller debating the merits of the new 911 T on Bloomberg last Friday. BTW, if I’d have known that we were all supposed to dress like our favorite character from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas” I’d have donned my best Gary Busey duds.
Matt and I share a press fleet and he always gets the better stuff first, which makes sense, because he does a feature every week where he talks about what he’s driving and, sometimes, he invites me on to see what I think. Last week he had the 911 T, in a gorgeous Ruby Star Neo color, which is a favorite around here.
Here’s how Thomas described the 911 T in The Autopian’s intro post “The Porsche 911 Carrera T Is The Cheap Way To Get A Great 911“:
To make a 911 Carrera T, Porsche follows a fairly simple formula. The boffins in Stuttgart take one base-model 911, add performance bits, remove weight, and sell it for less than a Carrera S. Indeed, the new one starts at $118,050 including a $1,450 freight charge and offers quite a lot of kit for the dollar. Let’s start with the big news, a standard seven-speed manual gearbox. You can’t get a standard 992 Carrera with the manual, so a cheaper row-your-own model than the Carrera S is greatly appreciated. You can also get a PDK should you wish, but the analog appeal of a manual is just too great to pass up.
As for big performance goodies, the 911 Carrera T gets PASM sports suspension with a 10 mm ride height reduction over the standard car, along with a PTV limited-slip differential and the much-desired Sport Chrono package. Most keen Porsche enthusiasts would tick these option boxes on the Carrera S anyway, so to offer them for less money is pandering in the best possible way. Four-wheel-steering is on the options list for the 911 Carrera T, something else unavailable on the base Carrera.
The important piece here is that it gets the manual, which you can’t get on the base Carrera, and all the go-fast bits you’d spend a lot more money speccing on your own. Here’s what it looks like after optioning one similar to what Matt Miller got:
The big additions here are the (superior) Carrera Exclusive Design wheels, the aforementioned paint, and because Stef challenged me in our Discord to use the word “hardibird” on air, the “hardibird yellow” seatbelts.
I could probably skip the $540 seatbelts and the paint, but not the wheels. If you lose the wheels, the price becomes just $130,360 after delivery. I have not driven the new 911 T yet, but I’ve driven plenty of new 911s (and some old 911s) and they’re all pretty much fantastic.
There are faster cars, more luxurious cars, cheaper cars, better looking cars, better handling cars, and maybe even more interesting cars. Is there anything new that simultaneously looks as good as a 911, is as fast as a 911, feels as good as a 911, and is as cool as a pink 911 with a base price of $124k MSRP (if anyone can get MSRP)? I don’t see it, but I’m open to ideas below.
Also, what do you think, should Paul trade in his 2014 last-of-last manual 5-series BMW? You know what I think.
[Editor’s Note: The big takeaway here is that The Autopian is getting OUT THERE. We’re telling the world that this incredible car-haven exists! -DT].
Let’s call that colour what it is: Beauberry
A thousand apologies, Autopians! I have steered you wrong. fauxberry! Jesus Christ, what a philistine I have been. Time to go lash myself with a V belt
I love a 911, but it’s hard to ignore the relative discount of a Cayman GTS. The 718 GTS is sort of a great deal.
Reminds me of the good old days when the entire family would gather ’round to … watch? The… radio? Wait, what?!
That is an awesome color 😀
We need more cars in cool colors! The Spark, Mirage, and even the Fiesta used to be made in cool colors like that
911’s are a dime a dozen in LA.
Spend the same money on a restored Mercedes-Benz W113/Pagoda SL – and enjoy an appreciating asset rather than getting hit with Massive German Luxury Depreciation, while also avoiding the likely yet inevitable guess-what-hidden-plastic-part-that-should-have-been-metal-failed-therefore-costing-you-a-new-engine-not-covered-under-warranty game.
You’ll enjoy the drive just as much and get more attention.
You and the 911 will wind up sitting at the next light together anyway.
More! Purple! And! Pink! Cars!
I did my part.
https://opposite-lock.com/topic/66635/one-year-ago-today
Personally I would take a 718 Boxster in Adventurine Green with a black and Bordeaux interior and top.
A man of culture
Yeah, a C8 Z06, but you won’t find those at MSRP either.
I have only driven the non Z06 C8 on track (actually, back-to-back with a new 911 Turbo). The Z06 is definitely faster and feels pretty good, but it’s definitely not as attractive.
I’m not sure I agree.
The 911 look is so timeless (if you’re feeling charitable) or old (if you’re not) that it’s hard to compare to other cars. To me the 991 and 992 are not unattractive, but are basically larger and worse looking versions of what they used to be decades ago. Kind of the Porsche equivalent of a 2023 Challenger vs a 1970 Challenger.
To me at least, the advantages in speed, handling, and amenities available at $130K in the C8 line far outweigh what you can get in a 911. Given unlimited money, I’d be driving a GT3 over a Z06, but in the real world, that is almost a $100K choice.
The Z06 has also been neck and neck with the GT3 in most of the track comparisons I’ve seen. All that extra money is essentially going to refinement, design, and the badge. The Porsche Tax is real…would I rather have a GT3 than a Z06? Of course, but even as a card carrying Porsche fanboy I’m not going to sit here and tell you it’s worth the 6 figure delta.
But it doesn’t matter anyway, the best I can hope for is being able to convince my wife that getting an M2 or some high spec Mustang isn’t the practicality sacrifice that she thinks it is. I’m playing the long game…because I saw a Dark Horse in person this weekend and I’ve gotta say, the S650 is exponentially better in person than it is in pictures…and custom ordering a GT with the performance package and Magna Ride has become mighty tempting.
I’d spring for the Dark Horse but since I’d be going with the 10 speed anyway I don’t think the extra 5-10 grand would give me much of anything other than appearance stuff over a well equipped 5.0. If I was going stick it would be another story, since Tremec > all the things.
I suspect the purpose of creating the Dark Horse trim is to eventually lock the V8 behind its paywall.
For now, I’m with you on getting the GT. The Tremec in the Dark Horse isn’t even the “real” one.
Practicality is overrated. Kids and stuff can be crammed into smaller spaces than you think haha.
My real question (that there doesn’t seem to be info on yet) is how much of a difference the performance package and Magna Ride really make, because they are pricey upgrades. Dealerships around me are already selling base GTs for $3-$4000 off sticker and the difference between paying low 40s for a discounted base GT mid 50s for one with all the bells and whistles is no joke.
I’ve always been told that the base GT is pretty sketchy and that you need to spring for the better brakes and dampers to really wake it up, but that was the word on the street with the S550. For all I know it could be better now, slash for my use (biweekly spirited drives and an occasional, casual track day) I don’t know if the extras are really needed.
I have no experience with Mustangs in the last decade so I can’t answer the performance pack questions beyond saying that my experience is resale is usually best on performance cars with all the performance options, because enthusiasts will always be looking for them.
On the other hand, I have Mag Ride on my daily driver now, and I don’t think I’d buy it as an option in the future. Not enough difference in the modes to be worth it, more expensive to replace, and you’ll never get something on performance tires to ride comfortably anyways. Opinion on forums usually seems to be pretty strongly in favor though, so I’m probably the outlier.
An LC500 also fits the bill, especially if you go with Nori Green, which is one of the best colors in the entire industry. Will it be as engaging as a 911? Of course not, but that’s never been its mission. It’s meant to be a GT/muscle car for the discerning palate and it fits those roles magnificently.
If you randomly handed me 125k and said “pick a sports car” I’d probably narrow it down to some form of 911 (I’d likely go for a used “special” one over a new Carrera T), a Z06, or an LC500. I’d also be tempted by an Evora but the long term ownership prospects are pretty daunting…everyone always says IT’S A TOYOTA ENGINE and they’re technically correct, but the rest of that car is bespoke and incredibly expensive to replace.
I think a Cayman or Boxster GT4 would be worthy decisions as well, and I feel a moral and ethical obligation to mention that you can get a decent used ZL1 in the high 50s/low 60s, and you could nab one of those as your track car and essentially have another 60ish for a comfy daily. In all likelihood that’d probably be my approach.
Oh, I have a story of the LC500 coming! A review, I suppose. I agree, LC500 is not at all as fast, but it’s damn comfortable and looks better.
I think you missed the “looks as good” part of the equation. When I see an C8 in some colors, I visibly wince.
See my comment above. To meet the criteria, I don’t need to pick something as good looking as an E-type, just better looking than a base 992. Which I think the wide-body C8 is.
I respect you, your rights, and your mistaken opinion.
I’d expect nothing else from someone with “Flat 6” in their name, to be honest. Cheers.
Nah, the C8 is a bit oddly proportioned because of the packaging to put additional rear storage behind the engine compartment.
Looks alright from the front or back, but the side profile is super awkward. There’s a shade of the same issue with the Boxster/Cayman, but they worked hard around it with the 981/718, but 987s (Cayman in particular) always looked a bit longer than you’d want them to be.
Your expectations might be skewed. My Flat 6 is a Chevrolet.
I’m going to take the nuanced track here:
I think the C8 is surprisingly ugly car.
It is still an incredible value and when you’re inside of it you don’t have to look at it.
My take on the backlash to the C8’s styling is that people aren’t comparing it to its competitors…they’re comparing it to super cars. Some of that was inevitable due to the direction GM took the car in, but compared to other things in its (MSRP) price range it looks pretty neat. I’ve been up close and personal with a few and think they look a lot more interesting in person than in pictures. When compared to legit supercars it doesn’t hold up as well but it’s less than half the price.
Also, WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT?!?! Everyone kvetches constantly that everything is a greyscale blobby crossover yet when companies take actual risks (the C8, assorted BMWs, etc) enthusiasts whine that it’s too much and talk about 911s, which are gorgeous but have looked the same for 60 years.
Thank you for saying this better than I could.
Actually, my problem with it is that it’s not enough: it looks like a supercar for a bank ad, really generic and lacking in character.
And the rear end looks like something large sat on it.
You only drive a pink Corvette if you’re Angelyne.
Or want to be mistaken for her.