We all contain multitudes, don’t we? That’s from the title of a novel I’ve never read and if I’m honest I don’t really get the significance of, but somehow it seemed like a good way to start this, because all of us as car lovers do have multitudes of ideas and feelings about all sorts of cars. And alongside the cars we love and admire and hate and revile there are those cars that, while they may not be our favorites, they’re cars that we feel strangely protective about. Cars that we have to speak up and defend when we hear them maligned, because deep down we know they deserve better.
I suspect we all have cars like this, leaking oil in the parking lot of our mind. Cars that we find ourselves in a genuine argument defending, as part of our brains float up and above, watching the conflict, wondering, hey, how did I get here? Why am I yelling at a dude for talking shit about a car I’ve never even owned? And yet here we are.
Mercedes told me for her that car is the Smart ForTwo, and I get that. She’s owned several, and they’re often the target of ridicule, undeserved, I think. For me, I think there’s two: the Fiat 500L, which I’ve defended on these very pages, and also the Yugo, which takes an extraordinary amount of bullshit from the world at large, and I think, needs me to defend it.
I once made a whole video defending this car, which I now own:
Man, now I’m getting worked up again, just imagining all the slights and eye rolls and dismissive comments that Yugos and 500Ls are inspiring, just by being mentioned. But I don’t think I’ll ever stop defending them.
Why am I like this? Who the hell knows? But I bet I’m not alone. I bet almost all of you have some sort of car you will always defend, and I want to know what they are, and why they make you feel the way you do, and how you defend them – everything. I want to know everything, always, forever.
So please tell me.
Literally any minivan
Great bang for your interior-space money. But they’re hardly the family-budget friendly vehicles they were years ago.
The are cheaper than a lot of SUVs and crossovers.
Not any more.
Try shopping equivalent vehicles in size, capability and it will be not much difference in price. Honda Pilot EX-L hovers around $44K – 48k Odyssey EX-L is about $3k cheaper. And the Pilot may have AWD.
The starting prices aren’t bad. The Sienna, Odyssey, and Pacifica all start at under $40,000. The Carnival starts at $34,000. That’s a great price for something that can actually carry 7 people, as opposed to a big crossover with a 3rd row that is only good for toddlers and dogs.
That’s the problem… they got just popular enough to now they are as pricey as any SUV crossover. It sucks. I guess–I mean, every car is expensive these days.
Of course, it’s the high trims everyone tests.
I’m still hanging on to my 2015 Odyssey EX-L. It is the best, most reliable car I’ve ever owned. I paid just under $32k for that.
Not a car in particular but I’m a believer of Ford’s Ecoboost engines, specially the 2.7 Nano with the CGI block, 2.0/2.3 and late 3.5 Ecobooosts.
I love when people comment on how bad Ecoboosts are in general but it seems most of them were burned by one of those 1.0, 1.5 or 1.6 engines which share nothing in particular with the first ones I mentioned. There are 5 or 6 different engine families that are part of the Ecoboost branding with no shared parts whatsoever.
But maybe it was Ford’s fault for labeling them all as Ecoboosts.
I have no experience with them, but I like the idea and the numbers are impressive. I find myself defending turbos in general, a lot of people think they’re inherently unreliable.
Funny how the same people who think a thousand-dollar t-belt job on a 4.7 Toyota is “reliable”, think a possible turbo replacement totals the vehicle.
I have some experience with the bigger 4 cyl and currently own an F150 with the 2nd gen 2.7. It pulls awesome but what people say about fuel economy is on point, you either get the Eco or Boost. Fuel economy is not different from my previous Ram with the Pentastar but the performance boost was well worth it IMHO.
And mine is already over 150K, but I’ve seen many with 200K and more.
The eco or boost statement makes sense and is not surprising. My 2.5L turbo Volvo barely gets better HIGHWAY economy than my 4.0 V6 4Runner, and it’s arguably worse in the city. It’s got a great feel though, I love the low-end torque of the 2.5T.
That was a great sounding, peppy engine. A decade ago I booked a compact car in Atlanta. When I arrived to the airport counter I found out SIXT had fumbled it and didn’t have what I ordered so they gave me a new S60 T5 as a free upgrade.
It was a hoot to drive, but can’t recall what the FE was.
I was skeptical of the 2.7, but my Dad put a lot of miles on one without a spec of trouble (the rest of the truck, not so much…), and it was never lacking for power. Mileage was even respectable for a half ton with that much power.
Can’t speak to the later 3.5s, but my brother had an early one of those and it needed a new timing chain after like 90k, which is absurd. Apparently not that uncommon either based on reports from the forums. His was from over a decade ago though so I would hope they’ve improved in the meantime.
The 3.5 had timing issues which were fairly common and still a thing on the early 2nd gen engines with Dual Injection but not exactly widespread. Apparently the camshaft phasers were a point of failure but Ford released a new revision several years ago. It’s too early to say if it solved these issues but even early 3.5 Ecoboosts with 250K or more are not uncommon.
Bottom line: that’s another argument for choosing the 2.7 (and related 3.0) over other Ecoboosts as they were designed from the very beginning to take forced induction, while the other ones were heavily revised around an existing NA engine
Honda Fit. If you haven’t experienced one, you just can’t comprehend how great they are.
Had one as a loaner back in 2013, I loved it!
Bought one of these for my eldest to take to college, after I drove it for several years. Loved that car. In fact, I’m planning on buying it back now that it’s been replaced by a Crosstrek.
It handled like a go cart, had 10 cupholders and loads of interior space. One of the best vehicles I’ve ever owned.
The cupholders on the dash were gamechangers
It’s impossible to take the Fit to Autocross without people coming up afterwards with some sort of comment of how fun/entertaining/insane it looks on course, three wheeling and rotating everywhere!
I own one of the last manual Fits, my only regret is that I didn’t buy a model year sooner so I could have manual and sunroof but the thing’s tall and airy enough that I don’t really miss the latter.
I own a 3rd generation going on 10 years. I’m constantly proselytizing about it for a host of reasons: it’s reliable, economical, very spacious, and fun too!
MAGIC. SEATS.
I was going to work that in, but didn’t want to go overboard! But oh yeah!
The Lexus SC430. 99% of the hate is people repeating Jeremy Clarkson’s take and/or people that see Z30 Soarers/SC300s/SC400s getting drifted or with big turbo 2JZs and think that the SC line was always supposed to be more of a sports car. That was never the case and SCs were never sports cars, they were always big, heavy, comfy grand tourers and that’s exactly what the SC430 is as well.
People have realized this and they’re going up in price quickly
The SC430 is brilliant.
Proud to say I’ve always hated these well before Clarkson came along. They’re ugly, slow and ride like crap.
Vans
But what if I want my belongings to roll around unsecured in the rain, snow and road debris, all while being open for theft at any time?
Incoming tonneau cover comments in 3… 2…
But yeah I agree, don’t own very many things that I want to be wet/filthy. For most people and situations, covered cargo area is key.
Ah, yes, the security of a thin film of vinyl or the hard-tops that can usually just be pried open. My mistake for forgetting about this level of armour.
Beat me to it.
Clearly, we are aligned on this.
My Pilot, and its predecessor in my family, an Odyssey, from David Tracy and suggestion that they are not reliable.
Variously and somewhat chronologically, the Porsche 914, the VW Thing, the Subaru BRAT, the Dodge Rampage, the Jeep Scrambler, the Saab 900, the Suzuki Samurai, the Audi TT (first gen), the Subaru Baha, the Saab 9-2x, the Honda Element, the Mini Cooper Roadster, any VW TDI, the BMW i3, restomods, and most recently the Hyundai Santa Cruz. What can I say? I like to argue.
Well some of those make sense. I really really don’t understand the Element sympathy though, it’s just another ugly crossover.
Element is awesome from a practicality standpoint. Ugly as sin, I agree, but you can stand a fullsize bicycle in the back with both wheels on. I was on a group mtb ride recently, and it blew my mind when one of the riders just rolled her bike right up into the back of an Element as the rest of us were removing wheels or messing with bike racks.
yeah, the Element is an, ugly, slow 4 cyl crossover with FE of a V6 but it’s interior was sorted out better than anything out there. I understand the appeal for those and even thought about getting one. None of the acquaintances that own/owned one ever said bad things about them other than poor fuel economy
Fantastic car list!
See username.
The 500L is trash. I say this having no personal experience with the car other than having to look at it sometimes, but I’m still confident that I’m correct. Trash, trash, trash.
Land Rover in general, and the Range Rover Sport in particular.
Every LR discussion is full of bleating chuzzlewits – most of whom probably have not even sat in a RR, let alone owned one – carrying on about reliability.
I had a Range Rover Sport Supercharged, and loved every second of owning it. The only serious issue it had was with one of the high-pressure fuel pumps and that was repaired under warranty. I swapped it at 125K miles for an F-Pace because I suddenly needed a vehicle with better fuel economy.
The Jaaag has been fantastic and I plan to keep it as long as humanly possible.
tl;dr – owner of JLR products is defender (ha!) of JLR
Same here other than in my case it’s Jaguar F Type.
Brave stance to take. In my experience for how simple the damn things are they are surprisingly unreliable, though the newest LR/RR product I’ve dealt with regularly is an LR3 and that is probably the most reliable of the bunch. Most of my experience is with Defenders though.
I have a Runner, but lately I’ve been lusting after a supercharged late ’00s Rover to offroad with.
The supercharged version may not be the best choice for off-roading, unfortunately.
The SC version comes with larger brakes, which necessitate larger wheels, which in turn dictate lower-profile tires.
I took mine on logging roads and through streams/creeks, but was always worried about denting a rim on rocky trails because of the comparative lack of sidewall. You could swap the SC brakes and wheels for the ones from the regular/NA model, but as Ferdinand Porsche once said, “Nothing should be able to go faster than it can stop”.
Good point, thanks for the info. I think even the N/A 5.0 is close to 400hp, that’ll be enough haha.
Miata Is Always The Answer; and so it is in this case.
I will spend more effort defending the Multipla, but now I can simply point people to Adrian’s article.
I constantly defend minivans and no one will listen to me 🙁 I guess you could also say I defend the N products because no one knows what they are and I always try to explain why they’re interesting. Ultimately no one gives a shit outside of folks at track days or cars and coffee…but no normie knew what my GTI was either so I’m used to it.
Defending vans turns me into a strange curiosity of a person in some groups.
But yeah, I can see the Hyundai N stump speech going just as poorly. You’ve basically got two groups of people out there, one that still somehow thinks it’s still 1998, and the other that thinks “Camrys and Corollas but with more value and a longer warranty”. These are not the people I want to convince that Hyundai now makes desirable sports-adjacent cars.
Hell even when I took it to its first track day no one there had any idea what it was. A bunch of Corvette and Mustang guys were side eyeing me and making passive aggressive comments until they couldn’t keep up with it as soon as things got twisty. Then I got mobbed after I got done lapping and everyone wanted to know what the hell I’d done to it to make it move like that (not a damn thing).
And honestly it only gets attention at Cars and Coffee from other N folks and, I shit you not…car dudes’ partners. I literally walked up to get my water bottle out of it one time at a C&C and a woman was standing there telling her man “now THIS is a car that you can get! Look how PRACTICAL it is!” as he rolled his eyes.
Yeah that’s exactly what I imagine the experience would be like.
I, for better or worse, am comfortable in the quirky “that boy ain’t right” mode that I’m in when it comes to automotive taste, so I’m pretty used to defending things like Suzuki SX4s (took a lot of flak for what was an awesome car). I’m used to it.
An AWD minivan is one of the most practical vehicles one can own. I have no kids and could still justify owning a minivan for camping and mountain biking excursions.
There were 4 of us in Moab a few years back, we had a rental Suburban and Caravan. The Caravan could fit all 4 people, bikes, and gear. The Sub could only fit 3.
Id take this one step further and say that a hybrid AWD minivan is, in fact, the most practical car you can own, bar none.
*gazes menacingly at van haters*
…you may not like it, but the Sienna is what peak automotive performance looks like.
My wife loves and uses the hell out of her awd pacifica. We have a 42×42 dog kennel in the back and still pop up the middle seats if needed. Great rig.
While I’m a fan of all minivans, I particularly like the 2001-2003 MPV. Large enough to move people and cargo, but small & tossable enough to easily drive in cities. They are simple and reliable, and with the 3.0 Duratec feel almost quick. In my small fleet of 8 cars I have two of them – one just for visiting friends and relatives to use.
R51 (3rd gen) Nissan Pathfinder.
People LOVE to shit on Nissans because of CVTs, Altimas, Titans, and whatever else makes themselves feel better about what they are driving.
Then they get to the Pathfinder:
Abysmal MPG
IFS/IRS
Rear door handles not kid-approved
No off-road chops like the Xterra
Lost its way from the original
Ass end wallows like a walrus trying to get back to the water…
I’ve heard them all.
I’ve heard it all.
But I have taken paths (see what I did there) that 4Runners would not.
I have been able to add winch, bumper, side rails, lights, radio, upsized brakes, power adders. I use it to help with Recovery and Rescue for events in WVA. Before I took the back seats out, it transported 7. It has front and rear AC (separate). I have off-roaded with heated seats. It is a good vehicle.
Though few people will modify it the way I will, it is a durable beast. Still, they persist.
Look around the next time you are at a stoplight. You will see one. Your mind may ‘not see it’ because it doesn’t draw attention, but it is there.
You need to seat 7 for under 6k? Get a 2012 Nissan Pathfinder. Do the maintenance. You will be driving it in 2030 with no worries.
You see, the Pathfinder may be a comfortable, durable, long-lasting, and reasonably capable vehicle, but it’s not actually difficult to find a vehicle that checks all of those boxes without having to suffer through these:
“Abysmal MPG
IFS/IRS
Rear door handles not kid-approved
No off-road chops like the Xterra
Lost its way from the original
Ass end wallows like a walrus trying to get back to the water…”
Being a decent vehicle does not prevent it from being a singularly uncompetitive vehicle.
Is it?
It has been out of production 12 years. I genuinely would like to know what is on your list of “comfortable, durable, long-lasting, and reasonably capable” from that era that is around today. Even better if it is in the same price range.
The point, though, is that I have to defend it.
15-20 MPG stock isn’t REALLY abysmal for a BOF SUV
IFS/IRS makes for pleasant on-road driving relative to solid axles
My kids can reach them now. When they couldn’t, I was putting them in car seats anyway.
It is only slightly less capable than an Xterra
The original was a BOF SUV based on the hardbody. This is a BOF SUV that shares the F-Alpha platform with the Xterra, Frontier, Titan, and Armada of their day.
$180 in different rear dampers solves this.
I liked those, specially if you can find one with a V8. They’re thin on ice and people know what they’ve got, just like V8 Explorers from that era.
From what I have learned, the V8 was in dealer allotments only for 2008. 2009-2012 were customer-order. The V8 was only in the LE version. For a hair more, you could have gotten an Armada, so they sat.
I saw a guy that claimed his 2012 V8 was one of 20 for that year, and I have few doubts.
I still see a lot of these around. A little awkward looking, but not bad. I used to see one that was slightly lifted with what looked like 32’s, it looked really good.
I love that they could come with the V8, I only learned that tidbit a few years ago.
I think the IRS is the worst thing about them.
I used to defend non-turbo Subaru’s as some of the most reliable cars ever made. I know of so many of them that got to 200K miles with nearly no repairs along the way. Then somebody pointed out to me that every one I had experience with was made in Japan and not Indiana…
To be fair the ones made after 2014 no longer had the head gasket problems of before
I know of several late 90’s – early 2000’s examples that got into the 200K’s without every having any engine related issues, however every one of these was the single cam 2.5 base engine. Maybe it’s just barely reliable enough for that engine but starts to fail with more power?
I heard somewhere that the 2.5 made in the USA were using the wrong head gasket until 2014.
I accidentally drove my EJ253 powered Forester (07) for two months without a water pump. Temp sensor is in the crossover tube which gets air cooled enough to keep the gauge in the green.
It appears that they’re finally figured out the headgasket issue…
…only to now have tons of CVT failures.
e-CVT is the way to go.
My 2008 2.5i needed headgaskets at 78k miles. I loved the car until then.
Do you have any idea if your VIN started with JF1 or 4S4?
No clue, I wish I did. I’m guessing that differentiates where it was built? It was an Impreza, not sure if that narrows it down.
I had a 2011 NA Impreza with a 6-speed and it was a very reliable car. Made in Japan, and when I picked it up from the dealer the news coming in about the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami.
High trim full-size trucks. I consider them the best all-around vehicles ever made, but that stance is usually not well-received here.
We prefer, nay INSIST our cars be seriously deficient in two or more categories.
We recite our oath to it before every meeting, it just sounds much more noble in Latin.
I mean, I get it. I own a vehicle that has less passenger room than a golf cart and whose tires turn to rocks below 50 degrees, but at some point you need something that can carry kids and function in winter.
You can install winter tires and a car seat in a Miata!
Sorry, I tried to defend your opinion on full size trucks but I went back to my old ways.
Every vehicle is seriously deficient in two or more categories, whether you like it or not. In the case of V10omous’s crew cab long bed gasser pickup, it’s quite good at all things except:
Fuel economy(quite poor)
Parking(quite large, remarkably doodoo turning radius)
You’re right for my specific truck, but I include in my statement stuff like the F150 or Tundra hybrids which are much shorter than my truck and also get significantly better mileage.
Absolutely true. There are also EcoDiesels, 3.0 Powerstrokes, and 3.0 Duramaxes that legitimately deliver compact car fuel economy in a fullsize pickup. Of course, I would characterize all three of those as being significantly deficient in the reliability/longevity department. V6 Tundras are also looking similarly bad at this juncture. You win some, you lose some.
I can understand the attraction… but I personally find even regular F150 punishment to drive – hard to climb into, bulky on the road, a pain to park.
I can only speak for myself when disagreeing with that (and yes, I ride in them all the time, as I work with Contractors all of the time). Is Autopian made up of people like me or did Autopian shape us?
The first one.
Car enthusiasts on the internet have hated expensive “inauthentic” trucks for as long as there has been an internet.
The editorial slant of this site is less extreme on this than most other places, which is why I find myself here. The commenters are the same though.
I was very young when I learnt/decided that the higher trim levels are the ones to get – of any vehicle.
If you spend any significant time in that vehicle, it should be comfortable and feature full.
And buying second hand is the way to go on the higher trims. They cost more than base models to buy new. But resale tends to see the price difference between base and high trim models seem to come together as one.
I’m not a truck guy. Never have been. But I also grew up in Australia – where the “pick-up truck” didn’t really exist… we used Utes. (Half truck / Half car)
I *think* that the people who complain about trucks complain about their fuel usage. I can’t even argue that point however, as my daily sedan has a big ol’ LS3 V8 in it – and at 16.3 MPG (all driving, since July 2017 – never reset it), I am in the “bad boy” category.
However, you’ll never take my car away from me.
Yes, 100%. There’s such an undercurrent of “cheap = good” in enthusiast circles, which I don’t agree with but can at least understand, but it quickly bleeds into “cheap = virtuous” which is ridiculous and unjustifiable. My truck can do just as much work as any crank window vinyl seat regular cab, but because I can be comfortable while doing it, it’s somehow less authentic.
That’s part of it for sure, but since so many here drive fast cars that are inefficient themselves, they have to use things like size or hood height that don’t really affect them to justify the hate. I suspect the real reason is that big trucks code as conservative in this country, and the majority of the commenters are liberal. To defend those drivers’ buying choices seems adjacent to defending their political beliefs, which I find unfortunate in the extreme.
I think your work on these comment boards has softened, or altered, my stance on big trucks.
At this point, my ire is mostly at the Big 3, who chose to use their lobbying power and economic clout to create a regulatory scheme that makes resource-guzzling trucks the most profitable vehicles to sell and simultaneously the most practical commuter vehicles to buy. I understand why people use F-150s as family sedans; it’s a rational choice in much of this country.
I still want to stab every owner who deliberately deletes all the emissions equipment off their diesel truck.
For the last 80 years, a plurality of Americans have preferred to drive a V8 powered, BOF, RWD based vehicle.
It’s unfortunate that for the last 30-40 years, their choice has basically been limited to large trucks and SUVs.
I also find that shelling out for the niceties up front saves money on the back end because I’m not looking to upgrade six months after I buy. That’s how I ended up with a truck pushing 10 years old when my previous vehicles never stuck around past about 5. I paid the money to get what I wanted in the first place (and I realize I was fortunate to be in a financial position to do so) and now I haven’t felt the need to replace it in almost a decade.
Hey, you’re possibly responsibly for my view of full-size trucks to upgrade from “I hate them all” to “I willing to accept these large trucks if the owner needs, or even just really really loves them”. We may not change but we can soften, lol.
I’ll add that while I like the purposefulness of a bare bones truck and their nostalgia related value, I’m not going to beat someone up for wanting their daily driver to not feel like a damn U-Haul rental inside. That seems silly.
Well then all this typing has not been in vain
I can see why you feel that way, and I begrudgingly agree. Luxury, durability, capability, all in one.
That being said I think most people’s issue with High Trim Full-Size Trucks is that their proliferation is directly responsible for the lack of cheap new long bed single and or extended cab Full-Size Trucks, and it has spread to Mid-Size Trucks as well.
That is true in the sense that people have voted with their wallets for the trucks they actually want to drive, and it’s overwhelmingly not the ones you favor. I disagree that this is the reason they get so much hate in comment sections though.
Finally, I will point out that regular cabs and long beds are still offered in some half tons and in all HD models.
Not entirely, as Footprint rule factors into it quite a bit, as well as the Chicken Tax.
“Some” being the operative word. No single cab or extended cab F-150 Lightning, which is actually a new automobile I would buy (which is very rare for me).
I can see your point. If I won the lotto, there’s a good chance my new DD would be a high end pickup.
I used to hate on full size pickups because I bought into the typical “only used as cars”, “poor utility compared to…”, all the arguments you hear. I was a small car guy through and through. However, you and others have convinced me that people are allowed to drive what they want to drive and it’s not my place to crap on them for it. My small car isn’t towing a large RV or a decent boat, or any of the other fun things you can do with your truck. Your truck isn’t fitting into that tiny parking space downtown. It doesn’t matter though because you’re out having fun while I’m paying $20 to park. Enjoy your truck.
I have no problem with high-trim full size trucks EXCEPT that they have caused the Raptor to cost EIGHTY THOUSAND dollars. It’s absolutely absurd to not have a lower trim Raptor available.
They basically made everything standard recently because that’s how they were getting ordered.
You used to be able to get them at basically an XLT trim level, and even an extended cab, but I guess there wasn’t much demand for those trucks.
It is frustrating that they removed the option. When the Gen 2 released you could almost buy a Nissan Versa for the price of the upgrade from base to luxury trim.
Indeed, while sure trucks might rarely get used as trucks, they do sometimes.Even if it’s once a year, that’s still way more than the vast majority of sports cars that will never see a track. That’s not counting the millions of fleet trucks being used as designed all the time.
The shitbox loving crowd here will never boo a sports car, but will take any chance they can get to shit on pickup trucks.
Hmmm… Oversized, inefficient, MORE DANGEROUS to other drivers and pedestrians, handle and brake poorly, pain in the ass to park, SKIRT MOST EMISSIONS REGULATIONS. They deserve all the vilification and more.
The Vega.
Mainly because that gives me a chance to dump on GM for the cheap-out decisions that turned it from a cheap car into a joke.
or, maybe I’m just a bit of a troll when I encounter a brand loyalist
The Vega is an interesting car. Some really innovative ideas, some really poor execution.
I helped my friend’s dad work on a vega back in high school. I would not defend one after that experience. The did have potential.
I’ve been defending Saturn as a whole for 30 years. Yes, I was defending Saturn as a 10-year-old. I was a weird kid.
By this point, I think the S-Series has mostly received its deserved respect amongst a good portion of the general public and enthusiast community. However, I feel the L-Series never quite got its due, especially with the L81 V6. It was a solid car, entertaining to drive, a surprisingly roomy interior, plastic front fenders and doors (rear quarters were steel), and it came in a wagon. I’d argue it wasn’t more successful due to lousy marketing. A lot of people at the time weren’t even aware the car existed.
Was it an independent product like the S-series? No.
Did it have some quality issues? Yes.
Was it as engaging as an Accord or reliable as a Camry? No.
However, if you put it up against the Malibu, Taurus, Grand Am, Sonata, etc., I would argue it was the better car.
The wagons are hard to find (first gen SW2 in decent condition, Forest Green if you please).
Forest green! FTW!
A ’94 SW2 (in Blue-Black with a 5-speed, that was the year they got the Pontiac/Lotus airbag steering wheel, but they still had the original dash and mouse-motor seatbelts) was the first brand-new car my parents bought during my lifetime. I still remember the day spent at the dealership, which had a boring play area for kids—it was Saturn of Santa Ana, the world’s first Saturn dealer, which was pictured in their brochures at the time.
It was a hardy little thing, never gave any real trouble, and the plastic body panels kept it looking newer longer than average for the mid-’90s, but they eventually had to swap it out for something bigger when my brother’s feet hit a size 11 or so and he could no longer get them in and out of the back doors…
We also had a 1994 SW2 in blue-black with the grey cloth interior. Power windows, locks, traction control & ABS and the four-speed auto because my mom can’t drive stick. My mom and I shared that car when I started driving while my dad drove the ’98 SL2.
And now it’s long gone, I am sure. Thanks to you and Autonerdery for reminding me that the Blue-Black is even nicer than Forest Green, although that color is so achingly 1994 that I might still prefer it.
I loved the no-haggle pricing and all my non-gearhead friends loved them as they were just driving appliances.
There you are, my friend, my people. (Excellent username for this discussion as well.)
I miss Saturn dearly. I grew up going to those showrooms, seeing the wall of delivery polaroids, and the rock-solid simple mechanicals of three different S-series in my family, including my first car.
My second car was an Ion, which everyone looks at as “a worse Cobalt”. While the sedan was a bit awkward at times, I liked the quirks that set it apart, especially in quad coupe form. If I could take my Volt drivetrain and driving experience and stuff it into my old Ion’s packaging, that’d pretty much be my ideal car.
My mom had an L-series and I didn’t mind it; I think the pre-facelift was more unique looking, and post-facelift was Saturn starting to lose some of its identity (though the Saturn logo pattern in the grille was pretty fantastic). That L300 was my sister’s first car and it tanked its way through a deer on the highway with only some damage in the grille.
And then, yeah. The culture. Not just the cars, but Saturn as an idea. God, I miss it.
Meanwhile I work with people who are 15 years younger than me and their firsthand experience with Saturn was an editing project in college.
Probably number one is my unlikely role as a cheerleader for the Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey. If you take some of the passion out of your search for a car, NOTHING beats these vehicles. Want a cup holder near your hands at all time? Want more horsepower than your Mustang had in high school? Want the kids to shut up and watch a movie while you use the cupholders and horsies? Want the cops to not care what you do on the road at all? GET A SIENNA OR ODYSSEY.
Also I love the 3rd Gen Camaro/Firebird and I don’t have a mullet. You don’t need a mullet. Stop assuming you have to have a mullet to drive a Camaro. It may add a few horsepower, but it’s not like the breathing device you need to start your Challenger.
As somebody who is interested in engineering, packaging, practicality, and efficiency, I like minivans.
As somebody who works on his own vehicles, I detest any vehicle with a transverse v6, especially minivans that tend to tuck the engine back under the windshield.
Considering station wagons exist, are cooler anyways, and are possible to change the spark plugs on, I cannot recommend a minivan to anybody.
I love minivans and have had 3 with the transverse v-6, they do suck to work on.
Truly, my dad’s 2014 Sienna shocked me. You mean this 4,500 pound vehicle gets 250 horsepower from a V6 while my 5,500 pound ’97 4.6l V8 Ford Econoline gets 215?
I will say, I hate how touchy the Sienna’s gas pedal was from a stop, but other than that…yeah, wow. Plenty of power and very well-designed overall.
Porsche 996! Everyone bags on the headlights and IMS. Both concerns are badly overblown. It’s a brilliant car to drive, and far superior to the air cooled cars before it.
As a non-Porsche person, the 996 is probably the one I would buy if I had to. But I think I’d be doing it partially to troll the Porsche fans, so I’m not sure that counts as a good thing. 😉
The Dodge Journey!
Was it an outdated, mediocre built, unexciting lump of a car that offered a snooze-inducing driving experience? Yes, all of those things.
But towards the end, they were the best option for many families.
Let me explain: In the days leading up to covid, banks weren’t terribly generous with thier lending to people without the best credit, especially on older (cheaper) cars.
So, very often I’d find myself taking care of customers that had a very strict budget, and not the best credit in the world. If someone had a budget of 400 bucks a month, I knew I’d be dealing with a high-teens interest rate on whatever 10 year old 100,000 mile minivan or suv they liked. Trouble was, banks dont like to loan on cars older than 8 years old, or with over 100,000 miles, often putting a nice reliable vehicle either out of reach or at a payment they could barely afford.
Enter the Journey. Dodge would do absolutely terrific terms on these, and they were extremely forgiving of rough credit, sometimes even offering a cash rebate to offset high interest, or flat out just giving an awesome rate to the borrower.
So if someone came in with 4 kiddos to haul around and a 580 credit score, they would come in expecting to pay 500 a month for a 10 year old highlander at 22 percent interest…….Or, they could get a brand new 7 seater with a full warranty with a 10 percent rate.
Overworked dads, tired moms, kids that had never been in a car newer than a 1995, I would see their faces light up in disbelief when I’d pull up a brand new bright red Journey.
I keep tabs on all my customers, and most of them that got into one of these tell me thats when their luck started turning around. No more suprise repairs draining thier bank account. No more adding oil every other fuel stop. No more dropping off thier kids in a rusty old caravan.
The journey sucked as a car, but I watched that one machine bring happiness to a lot of lives.
So the Journey, at least to me, was a damn good vehicle.
Damn. I never thought I would hear a compelling reason to not hate the Journey.
Counterpoint: whatever 100,00 mile minivan was likely more reliable and had more life left in it than a brand new Dodge Journey.
That’s just popular internet meme regurgitation. Early Journeys weren’t the best, sure, but most of the problematic things got fixed pretty early in the run. By the 2014 update, they were as solid as anything else. These things get abused to hell and back and there are tons still out there on the road.
The 4 cylinder/4 speed auto/Front drive $19,999 bad credit specials were the best of them. They didnt make enough power to hurt anything.
I will freely admit that I have no personal experience with Dodge Journeys, and I could be wrong about them.
But I do have personal experience with newer Fiat Chrysler products being steaming garbage. And the only thing I’ve heard about Dodge Journey reliability(I haven’t been looking by any means) is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpiLWLVWA5Q
Showing the engine replacement in a not-that-old Dodge Journey that was absolutely nuked.
Come to think of it, it wasn’t just that. I’ve had family friends buy a Journey and end up keeping it for maybe six months because it was that bad of a lemon.
That’s one of the early ones, but also, that 2.4l was an engine shared with mitsubishi, and put in everything from Wranglers to Patriots, to avengers, Pt Cruisers, Chrysler 200s, basically anything dodge or mitsubishi built in the late 2000s. THere were kajillions of them made, so you’re going to have stinkers. I’m not a Chrysler apologist, I ran a garage for 10 years and Ive been selling them another 8. They definitely made some stinkers, as did every other manufacturer.
The Journey, whether with a 2.4 or a 3.6 was not one of them.
That’s the odd thing about reputations about car companies. People will buy Subaru’s and Nissan’s because they’re Japanese and that means “quality” and literally every other Nissan Titan we send to the auction with internal engine problems, a 2010-2020 Pathfinder to us is worse than a Yugo, and Subaru appears to have forgotten how to build both an engine and transmission. It boggles my mind how many people trust Kia’s and Hyundais to be reliable because of top reliability ratings in Consumer Reports, while every Kia/Hyundai store in the country has waiting lists for replacement engines.
We have a 2012 jeep and a 2020 pacific that have been great and reliable.
People have no ability to forget old bad cars. Anything new is so much better now in the past. Well said.
Not even 100k minivans, at least in Canada Chrysler offered a similarly priced Grand Caravan with a proper third row instead of the pair of jump seats the Journey has. I believe you got the cheap van too (the American Value Package), but it might not have been the mainstay the Canada Value Package was.
Nope we sold a lot of AVP Caravans too! But I dont find myself defending them, because anyone smart knows minivans are the best, and anyone that hates on them I don’t care to waste time on lol
The more basic Grand Caravan was also the last “civilian” (as opposed to commercial or mobility-prep package) minivan to not have a console between the front seats so you could get in, shut the sliding door, strap the kids in out of the rain and get in the driver’s seat Millennium Falcon-style.
I rented one in Hawaii once. It was definitely a car. But it was a useful one, and it didn’t suck nearly as much as I thought it would. And boy did it have work to do to convince me, because you might imagine I was NOT a happy camper when they rolled up in that bad boy.
In all, it was my passport to see Hawaii (big island) and it did that job admirably. I totally understand the freedom that can come from taking on a new car payment to avoid the sort of bad luck repair work that some families are a magnet for. Getting a Journey under warranty was a solid choice for a lot of families who needed something with a lot of seatbelts. I wish there was still something comparable out there for those that need it.
I used to hate the Journey, then I realized exactly what you’re describing: it’s not a great car, but it was a new car that was inexpensive enough that it could get people and families out of a cheap old beater and into something more reliable–with a warranty. Plus, it seats seven! I look at the Mitsubishi Mirage or the Nissan Versa in the same way. They aren’t going to blow you away with anything, but they’re an attainable new car for a lot of folks who might otherwise be driving a beater. When you depend on your car to get to work every day, it’s nice to have something you can count on. And if it goes wrong within the first few years, there’s a warranty so you aren’t paying out of pocket for repairs. Not sure about Dodge/Nissan/Mitsubishi, but a lot of dealerships will give you a loaner if your car is in for warranty repair, another potential win.
This is one of the best things I have read in an automotive comment section for a very long time. FANTASTIC!
Man, I could write a full article series on cars that pretty much suck but are actually perfect for some situations lol
Please! I know that people rag on my jeep wrangler but it has been the perfect vehicle for me for 12 years.
An excellent, adult answer.
Congrats, sir.
Suzuki’s. People REALLY like to hate on them, usually the metro/swift, but often the Tracker/Vitaras. When they start to say “REMEMBER DEM METROS WHAT A PIEEECE O SHIT” I always point out (here in the PNW at least) how many Metros are still bopping around.
Suzuki’s felt cheap, but were usually extremely well put together. The interior of my tracker looks just terrible. The hardest of hard plastics coat every single surface, but after 250,000 extremely hard miles, I don’t have a single rattle! I’ve also been places in that thing that a 4Runner or larger could never fit, and a CRV or Rav-4 could never dream of actually making it.
Back in the day I used to get lots of negative and even derogatory comments on the street and in auto parts stores about my metro. All these years later it’s different. People approach me with support and smiles when I’m tootin’ around town.
I give a grin & thumbs up to anyone driving a Metro if I can catch their eye. I respect their commitment to driving a cheap cheerful car and figure they deserve some recognition.
6th gen Camaro. Do they have the best visibility? Nope, but it’s a trade off for the style / design choice. Is the trunk opening small? Yup, but it’s not supposed to be a pickup. Do they handle amazingly and make a wonderful sound from that proper American V8? Damn right they do.
If you ever get a chance to drive a SS 1LE, take it. I think it’s one of the best drivers car made in recent history.
I will always stan for the 3rd gen Camaro because it was the Camaro of my birth decade. Were they good cars? No, not really. I still love the way they look and how unashamed the people who own them today are about proudly cruising in the ultimate mullet mobile. If anything the people who rock them today embrace the hate. Cheap speed in a cheaply built car is as American as it gets.
The Pinto, my project one which was my dad’s is still in his garage after I started on it 14 years ago (me no have garage, mmmmkay). But it was a good little for the period, and has rack and pinion steering with a fantastic front suspension design and the huuurrrrr duuuurrrr they explode people just need to knock it off.
I don’t think the Pinto can escape that. I too, like the Pinto. Solid little rigs, I’m quite partial to the wagons. What I don’t like is Ford’s response to the whole thing.
Mine’s a wagon
Wagons were not even prone to fires. But people who were not even alive back then or heard what his neighbor or friend’s cousin said will just repeat the same about Pintos…
I thought you had that chip on your shoulder surgically removed.
As the former owner of a 2005 PT Cruiser GT convertible, that is an easy question. Actually, it might not be because I also owned a 1974 Mustang II. Damn, now I’m really starting to question my life choices…
You know, I don’t hate the PT Cruiser because how it looks. Thats cruel, and unfair. I hate the PT cruiser because what’s on the inside. They took the Neon, a perfectly serviceable little car, and CRAMMED all that neon goodness into this goddamn stupid narrow hood that makes every single parts replacement a goddamn bitch. Then they had the BALLS to call it a “truck” so it didn’t have to meet the same regs for safety and fuel economy a car would.
100% true. I had a good indie mechanic who worked on mine after the warranty was up. All it needed during my ownership (100k miles) was the timing belt, an A/C leak and the terrible lower motor mount job. He gave me shit about it all three times.
To be fair to Chrysler, this is the government’s fault.
The PT Cruiser is very useful to me in that way because I don’t consider unibody pickups to be Trucks, I call them Pickups or Utes.
Then people say: ‘It’s called a Truck on Government paperwork’
Then I say: ‘So is the PT Cruiser, do you consider the PT Cruiser a Truck?’