It’s time once again for you to plumb the depths of your piston-power psyche as you ponder a speculative automotive scenario and return a well-honed reply when (pause for dramatic effect) The Autopian Asks!
This time, we’re talking about those great car concepts that fell short of what they could have been (or heck, never even made it to production) with the brands that originally spawned them, but would have been better/great/not garbage if another maker had the opportunity to manufacture the machine in question.
I asked the gang …
Thomas Hundal
The new electric Dodge Charger Daytona is an interesting proposition. Unfortunately, due to recent marketing efforts around V8s and traditional muscle cars, it’s also seeing some serious pushback from the community. However, you know what American car manufacturer could use a big, fast, electric three-door or five-door liftback and doesn’t have the baggage of the Hellcat engine? Chevrolet. Build in the budget for a brand new Chevelle with plenty of power and grand touring sensibilities, and GM would have a halo car for the Ultium platform that isn’t a completely unattainable handbuilt Cadillac.
The Bishop
I still think the Allante is a nice-looking car that never should have been flown by 747 to Detroit to be burdened by Cadillac underpinnings Also, nobody went to a Subaru dealership in 1992 for a $30,000 sport luxury coupe. SVX was doomed at the start Mazda 929 shoulda been a Jag. It would have sold. Again, nobody goes to a Mazda dealer for a big fancy luxury sedan.
Stephen Walter Gossin
The Crossfire should’ve actually been made by Chrysler, rather than brought to showrooms as a restyled Mercedes R170 (first-gen SLK) built by Karmann and badged as a Chrysler. The Chrysler guys could have used whatever plan/parts/chassis they were going to use for the Dodge Razor or Dodge Slingshot (or the other, similar prospects/concepts of the day) and made a car that wouldn’t require you to finagle discontinued $800 keys (In certain cases) from old Mercedes suppliers for a security system nobody supports 10 years after the cars were made om top of a myriad of parts and service-related challenges as a result of the divorce.
Which car (or cars) do you wish had come out of some other brand’s factory? To the comments!
Toyota had all of the bits in the parts bins to make a really nice front engine V12 Ferrari clone. A Ferrari 412 with the reliability of a Toyota? That would work too or any number of front engine GT’s of that era.
The Lexus RCF should’ve been a Chevy. Lexus sure ain’t selling many of them, but it’s a freaking 5.0L V8 fastback coupe! “Grand tourer” my foot, that’s a textbook muscle car with solid Japanese underpinnings, and it should be marketed as such! Give it to Chevy, let them put a Camaro nose on it, remove the luxury tax because blue-collar brand name, and kick the Mustang’s butt in sales and performance.
Alternately, decontent the RCF a little and put a retro-style Toyota Celica nose on it. The old 1970s Celica already looked like a tiny muscle car, and Toyota is blue-collar enough to pull off the muscle car spirit IMO, so embrace the muscular nature and beat the American brands at their own game. Build it in one of the American Toyota factories too, just to rub in the fact that it’s actually more American than the competitors. They’re already in Nascar so it wouldn’t be that weird for Toyota to sell an American-style muscle car, all they have to do is remove the Lexus badge and “grand tourer” marketing from the one they’ve already got.
Also the new Dodge Charger should have been badged as a Chrysler Valiant Charger. Instead of angering Dodge fans, let them grieve the V8 while learning about a different Mopar Charger with a fascinating history of Hemi straight-sixes that set acceleration records in their day. Don’t market it as American at all, embrace the Aussie muscle heritage and give Chrysler something other than a minivan to sell for cryin’ out loud.
Also (dons fire suit), I think Ford should’ve sold a badge-engineered variant of the Miata with bubble-Taurus styling and the 3.4L Yamaha/Cosworth V8 from the Taurus SHO. Call it the Ford Cobra and cancel the Mustang convertible so they don’t compete with each other. It would be loved by boomers and youths alike, and be glorious fun to drive, finally pairing that unique engine with a proper manual RWD platform and good handling.
Also give the 11th-gen Thunderbird to Mazda so they have a marketable luxury car to put their scrapped Amati brand’s technology in, particularly the epic 3-bank W12 engine. Americans would buy the crap out of it and JDM nerds would actually get to play with the greatest engine Mazda couldn’t use. Basically everything Mazda wanted to do with their Amati 12-cylinder sedan, but with Thunderbird retro styling and sold through Ford dealers in America, with Thunderbird being its own brand so Ford doesn’t have to acknowledge that it’s actually a Mazda.
These are insane ideas but I like them
Great points by all here.
The SS 396 Chevelle was a true monster back then. GM needs something like that now, but hybrid. And well under 50 K…
The mazda MX5 NC: make it a lexus, because that’s what the SC430 should’ve been.
The third gen miata was too heavy and complicated to be a proper MX5, but as a lexus? Maybe it wouldn’t have been upmarket enough for some, but for others it might’ve been just the right mix of sporty and premium.
The Bishop nails it.
The entire Saturn lineup.
I believe some of them were Opels
The new Fiat 124 is alright, but I think it would have been a better fit as an Alfa Spider. Positioning it as a Fiat is just confusing.
Also, in fact, it already turned out much better as the new Miata.
I like this a lot. The amount of everyday buyers who actually remember the original 124 has to be really low, but the Graduate alone keeps the Spyder in public memory.
I recently bought a 1978 and it has quite the fan support. And they made like 100x more Fiat spiders than Alfa graduate is only known to the people who watched and remember that movie. Not big on rotten tomatoes
The Abarth 124 offered a very different character than the Miata, was available with an awesome rally-inspired paint job and and was quicker (until Mazda released the current engine). It also sounded 100x better. Many car mags rated it as the best of the Fiat / Mazda options.
Jensen Interceptor should’ve been built by Chrysler with an Imperial spin off. It’s Pantera before Pantera
VW ID Buzz designed and built by Rivian. Better range and packaging along their software, probably still with a higher than normal price but the brand matters a lot. Sold with configurations for people camping and some off road capabilities.
The new Supra and 86/BRZ should’ve been made by Toyota instead of Subaru and BMW
This one wins. Which of these three doesn’t take frequent vacations at the dealership spa for an engine-out service? Which one just… y’know… keeps running?
Totally agree, BMW/Supra was one weird and unexpected partnership, and left many enthusiasts dissapointed.
This bigly…
In the case of Chevy and Pontiac, the wrong kid died. Any non-body-on-frame Chevy made after 2010 would have made a better Pontiac. Particularly the Camaro. I’m sorry, bros and old-heads, but it’s true.
No way this could’ve happened.
In 2009 only 5 people in the country wanted a Pontiac.
GM was letting every brand die on the vine in that era. Yet the Pontiac Vibe was the only decent smaller vehicle they made (thanks to the NUMMI plant and Toyota).
If GM bothered to learn anything from that partnership (they did not) and applied those reforms to a new Trans Am (instead of Camaro), GTO (instead of the SS) and a Durango-fighting Torrent GXP, we would all be happier. Pontiac had everything in place to be GMs enthusiast/performance brand.
Remove the Corvette and Chevy is now a bloated lineup of overpriced, generic trucks/trucklets and a rental darling sedan. Who could care? GMC has no reason to exist either. What mistake.
“Pontiac had everything in place to be GMs enthusiast/performance brand.”
Nobody wants those cars.
“Chevy is now a bloated lineup of overpriced, generic trucks/trucklets”
Everybody wants those cars.
This article was a question of better. Never mistake popular with better. Just because GM would rather manufacture consent than a good sports sedan, doesn’t mean there is no market for them.
GM was thinking buy and let die but you never can get all the business a new guy is around the corner. They destroyed Isuzu buy having control and making their great cars suck.
Only 4 wanted a gm but dad’s forced them.
If Jeep had been made an AMC subdivision. Frankly the AMC Eagle and most AMCs were a better vehicle they just didn’t have the cash. Bantam invented the Jeep the government took it away gave it to Ford. I think an underdog deserves the vehicle that they would build better with the resources they deserved
AMC was so ahead of its time it is crazy. Everybody basically drives AMC Spirits these days.
Oh, here we go….
Remember the Last/3rd Gen Lincoln Towncar – the rather bulbous looking one that was in production for 15 years, and was introduced with a Hitler-moustache grille that was later widened into something sightly less fascist?
That car was designed to be an Aston Martin Lagonda – and it should have stayed a Lagonda.
…plus, it would have given space for Lincoln to build a proper Continental – such as the 2002 concept – which incidentally had an Aston Martin V12 engine embedded within it’s late-Panther platform.
If the Lucid Air had a Mercedes-Benz or Audi badge on the front – that lovely car would be selling in abundance.
You know what would have been a great Thunderbird in the early 90s -and would have been appropriate given the existing corporate alliance?
The Mazda/Eunos Cosmo.
Everything about that car says “Thunderbird”
Meanwhile, nothing about the Mazda 323-derived convertible of the 90’s was in any way a “Mercury Capri”
But would have made a great Mercury Capri – and gotten the jump on the 4-door coupe trend?
The Mazda Astina
Remember the Renault Espace? That would have been a great VW Transporter – or even a Ford Aerostar. That would have blown the GM Dustbusters out of the water – and given the Chrysler K-vans a run for their money.
Without going down a rabbit hole or sitting here Pondering™ for the next 5 hours, I’ll just say “if a foreign manufacturer made a full-size van in the U.S., such as Toyota.”
The idea that (using the aughts as an example here) we were stuck between E-series vans (myriad of problems I personally experienced, not including Triton spark plug issues I never experienced), Express/Savana (“4-L-slippy” and a stupidly complicated radio replacement process), or the Sprinter (Mercedes parts and labor pricing) is truly trying to choose the least bad option.
Then Nissan came along with something gorgeous and with a hood to maneuver in (…I hope…) and amber rear turn signals and the market didn’t give them a chance. Bollocks.
Friends of mine have a Nissan passenger van, and it’s pretty damn good.
Passengers weigh less than cargo until Soylent Green plan under Harris
lol maybe?
The problem is look at the Series vans by Ford. They were able to make vans that had up to 28 foot box trucks, ambulances , fire trucks etc. The European designs were under powered for what they were supposed to do let alone handle real truck jobs. No Nissan motor could handle a 2 ton truck with 4 ton of cargo.
I would argue, they’re not “underpowered” so much as “we’ve set our performance standards too high.” If it can get to highway speed, it’s good enough.
Hell, there’s some parts of I-81 in PA near me where I constantly see semis doing ~40mph uphill with their flashers on. If that’s not illegal or against some kind of regulations, then why overdo the performance standards?
I’m also a bit confused because I’ve seen and heard of many Transit-based ambulances.
Fisker Ocean.
It’s actually pretty neat, apart from the disaster of a company that made it. It would be a lot more compelling than the Busyforks, for example, if Toyota and their overwhelming competence had the design.
BYD would have made a killing out of it. Fisker design + BYD scale & supply chain integration = global dominance.
Technically a different company did build it.
I mean I like the Fiero and would like one built better but the Toyota MR2 out fiero’ed the Fiero.
Oh I have some OPINIONS.
Not all of them are going to make sense and I don’t have time to explain, but I’ve given this very subject more thought than any rational person should. Here:
Jeep Wrangler but it’s a Toyota
Toyota Supra but It’s all Chevy Camaro chassis and powertrain
Honda Odyssey but with GMC styling in and out (It would absolutely have an off road package and an A-Team red stripe)
C7 Corvette but it’s a Cadillac
Dodge Charger Hellcat but it’s a Ford with the GT350 powertrain (The Galaxy!)
Kia Stinger but it’s a Buick (GNX!)
Suzuki Jimny but it’s a Chevy (obvious what we’d call it)
Toyota Corolla GR but it’s a Dodge that “goes like hell”
I could go on, but I won’t.
But I could.
i mean how different is a C6 chassis from a C7 Other than styling a 2nd Gen XLR would be close to a first gen
Don’t know, and don’t much care.
The XLR wasn’t as potent as the Vette, and visually it looked dated and heavy, even when it was pretty new.
My line of thinking was late 2010s-early 2020’s Cadillac design language on a front mid-engine car, Blackwing engine, manual trans, a true world fighting sports car, with the full extent of GM’s sports car engineering displayed, and zero concessions due to not wanting to upstage the corvette.
Jaguar X-type. A 3 series fighter Jag? that should be a runaway success in the early 2000’s! Oh it’s from Ford and based on the Mondeo? uh….
I’d like to think that any other ownership would have realized not to base a luxury sport sedan on a FWD Camry fighter. Should have been on a RWD platform at the very least
If the X Type had been introduced first, the Mondeo would have been perceived as a budget Jaguar.
It’s all about timing and perception.
The US got a Mitsubishi Lancer wagon somewhere around 2005-ish. I loved the design, thought it looked like a 3/4 scale Volvo V70. If someone besides Mitsubishi had made it, I’d have bought it.
Miata, obviously. Just kidding. I’ll see myself out
S2000, Sky, Speedster, and Solstice?
I think Honda did fine with the S2000, but the Sky/Solstice would have been much better from Toyota.
Careful! You’ll summon the Fiat 124 Spider from the grave.
Please do!
I want to say the Vega—but, then I can’t really name a domestic that would have done it right at that time. I rather like the look, and just hate that GM cut stuff to get down to $2k; no fender liners?
Anyone have an opinion on a manufacturer that would have done it better?
Well, if only proper rust protection were not a sin in GM’s religion at the time, I would say nobody else.
Maybe Toyota, if the Celica line had encompassed other body styles?
His thesis does throw an interesting wrench into the cogs.
What IF Chevy used more Opel components including the established 1.9 IHC four (at this point in time) and some Kadett components in the work.
Both my parents loved their Vegas, but the engine was garbage. One was running when the other was in the shop, and vice-versa.
The Opel GT/Manta had pretty good bones, and the GT only stopped production due to manufacturing limitations vs anything bad.
Maybe a Chevy/Opel Vega could have worked.
GM dusted off that book for the first gen Cruze.
In that era, Volvo could have made a very solid car with the Vega design.
Wow, Peter, you’re a master of the dramatic…pause!
By the bard’s word…verily.
My favorite is when they rescue him from robot hell and RD says “just take him already!”
I have a Triumph Acclaim which is a Honda Ballade built by BL Cars Ltd. and I have a Volvo 66 GL which is a DAF 66 built by Volvo Car BV. I think it’s fairly self-evident that I shouldn’t be encouraged, or indeed allowed, to express an opinion in this matter.
The PT Cruiser, built by Ford.
Ford was pretty good at doing retro (inspired, but not yet full on that is) cars in the early 2000s, and I’d loved have to have seen a modern take on a ’30s Ford/hot rod deuce coupe.
Also would have hit the baby boomer market at a really good point, spending-wise.
TBF, the PT hit the boomer market solidly and did very well riding that initial wave.
Chrysler just didn’t do anything with it once it came out, and demand trickled down.
Ford did have more in the way of hot rod heritage but, looking back on the last gen Thunderbird, I’m not sure they would have done much better than Chrysler.
The final generation of Thunderbird kinda did the same trajectory.
If Ford had a design that was built on the 1st gen Focus platform that was a 30s styled hatchback available for 2006/2007, they probably wouldn’t have been able to make them fast enough. I’m guessing the only reason it didn’t happen is that Ford was in dire financial straits at the time and didn’t have the resources (financial or otherwise) and the executive will to make it happen. I can imagine it being a much better alternative to the HHR!
I think Chrysler was on fire with the retro stuff that the time of the PT cruiser, the sales numbers proved it. They were incredibly popular, it just wasn’t something that could possibly last forever. Anyone I know who owned one loved it.
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep has done retro better than most anyone if you look at the past 20 years
Here’s my thinking: since maybe the mid-’90s, Ford has been good at creating a design and then sticking with it, updating it, working out the bugs along the way. Boring maybe but effective. Chrysler tends to be a swing for the fences company, success or failure, nothing in between.
So a Ford PT Cruiser (I’ll call it the Ford 32) could start decent, but then get better/ keep adapting for the times, unlike the actual PT Cruiser which was a hit at first but then really did kinda languish.
SO many small GM cars would have been better had anyone else built them.
Fiero, Saturn, spark, sonic, bolt, vega, etc.
A Ford Fiero designed and built with intent of, rather than fear of, cannibalizing Corvette sales would have have been awesome.
When will the automakers learn: you can only build a Corvette killer if you are not a GM division?
Fiero was never intended as a Corvette competitor.
The 2M4 was a “commuter car”
Even when Pontiac acquiesced to public pressure, dropping in the V6 and creating the Fiero GT, it wasn’t meant to compete with Corvette.
Ford had it’s chance at a mid-engined 2 seater.
That concept later became the ’65 Mustang.
Larger versions later become the GT40, and the Pantera.