These days, you really have to hand it to Hyundai. Not only is it the real-life incarnation of the “Stop, stop, he’s already dead” meme from The Simpsons with how much it’s crushing every other automaker in the design department, it has very quickly and rather quietly emerged as a top contender in the electric vehicle world. It’s cliché as hell to remark how “far” Hyundai (and corporate cousin Kia, too) have come from the era of today’s Shitbox Showdown, but that doesn’t make it untrue. And one area where Hyundai keeps getting it right is EV range as well.
Last week, we got official EPA numbers for the new Hyundai Ioniq 6 and they are extremely impressive: 361 miles on a full tank of electrons. Even though it’s only by a few miles, that means Hyundai’s sedan can take down the Tesla Model 3 Long Range; that’s no easy feat. Say what you will about Elon Musk on any given day, but Tesla is still the electric automaker to beat. And at a time when many new EV offerings from so-called “legacy” automakers still feel tepid in the range department, Hyundai’s probably got a winner here.
But my mind keeps going back to what a good EV range 361 miles is. In fact, it’s excellent; much closer to the most recent median range for gasoline vehicles, which according to InsideEVs stands around 400 miles. (Remember, the greater selection of ICE vehicles out there, plus the fact that it’s a much more well-established technology, helps a lot there; on the flip side, most of us aren’t filling up our cars at home. Maybe you are if you live at an actual race track, or are an eccentric billionaire. You probably need the second thing to be true for the first thing to be, too.)
Anyway, this debate comes up all the time in the comments, but the Ioniq 6’s impressive-yet-pragmatic number makes me wonder this: What is the correct amount of EV range? I’d say 360 miles is pretty damn close to where you want to be without being excessive, and in fact, I think it could be held up as a kind of gold standard to aim for in the next few years.
Let’s assume a few things are true before we continue:
- EVs are meant to be charged at home, at the office or whenever they’re parked; they aren’t meant to be run down to near-zero before “filling up,” which will necessitate some behavior changes by drivers as EVs become more common.
- As noted above, you can’t fill up a gasoline car at your home, generally speaking.
- We’re talking about more or less conventional technology. Solid-state batteries promise better range, but they’re at least a decade away from being anything at all.
- It’s generally agreed that big, heavy, huge-range EV batteries aren’t great for the environment, both in terms of resources used for manufacturing and their overall electricity consumption.
- Smaller—or at least more reasonably sized—EVs are the ideal version of the future, both for the above reasons and for pedestrian safety reasons.
- The auto industry has spent years getting Americans in particular into bigger and heavier SUVs and trucks instead of cars, and reversing that trend will be difficult and potentially less lucrative for car companies.
- People generally don’t like being “told” what to drive, by anyone. Understandable!
- Having said that, Americans do have a tendency to buy cars for the worst day of the year—the road trip, the move across the country, the day the in-laws come to visit—and that means we often buy more cars than we need.
- The charging infrastructure isn’t where it needs to be yet, but it is getting better. And realistically, we probably won’t go “all-EV” by 2030 or whatever like governments and automakers expect; a more realistic scenario is a mix of drivetrains, including more hybrids, which means people who regularly drive very long distances will still have options.
- Nonetheless, very few of us seem to want low-range EVs like the 100-mile Mazda MX-30. Not in this country, anyway. Rational or not, getting people to mass-adopt low-range city cars will probably never happen.
I know that’s a lot to assume, but it feels like a realistic view of things from where we’re at now, in early 2023. So having said all of that, is the ideal electric range around 360 miles? I say hell yes, it absolutely is. They’re backed up by the Supercharger network, sure, but millions of Tesla Model 3 owners make that (or less) work pretty much all of the time. At 360 miles, you’d be able to get pretty far on most road trips. Daily driving won’t be a problem at all, either. Remember most Americans still drive about 35 miles a day at most. At 360 miles of range, you’re more than golden.
So while plenty of people are clamoring for EVs with 600 miles or more—and automakers are working to meet them there, albeit begrudgingly—what Hyundai has done is offer a car with a realistic and powerful amount of daily range that will meet pretty much all of your regular, daily needs. It’s enough to dissuade people away from their often irrational range anxieties, and coupled with the realities of regular charging at home and on the go, it’ll be plenty.
What do you think? I’m more interested in positing this as a realistic, good-faith question about driving needs, but if you need me to set up the “Change My Mind” table, I can go ahead and do it. What’s the ideal EV range to you?
500 miles in 0 F, or 300 miles with recharge time and convenience equivalent to gas. I won’t be changing until there’s zero sacrifice to do so.
To head off criticism of this stance, I’ll merely note that the greatest trick the powerful have pulled off is that sacrifices for climate change should be made by the middle class in the West, and not by China building coal plants or giant shipping, manufacturing, and utility corporations that put out more emissions in a day than I will in a lifetime.
I think for most first-time EV buyers, who haven’t changed their perception of how much/far/often they drive, the answer is “similar to the range of my IC vehicle.” They want the changeover to be painless.
In my case, as someone who wanders the country full time in a converted Express van, the correct range would be 450-500 miles. Because I don’t have a home or office to charge at, and because a lot of my driving is far from civilization, much less charging stations. I use solar but don’t have enough generating power to also fuel an EV.
I’ve said it many times and in many places. It’s not just the range, but the time it takes to “fill up”. They are going to cut the recharge time to roughly the same time it takes to fill up a tank of gas. People are way too impatient for anything longer.
What can be done in the meantime is encourage chain restaurants to install charging stations in their parking lots. (Free installation,tax breaks, look the other way at hair in the pickle jars…. You know, options.) The average time spent is 45 minutes to an hour so that gives a great amount of time to charge up. I would bet some fanatical Applebee’s fan would love this idea.
As for the auto makers pushing large SUVs and Pickup trucks, well yeah. That’s how they were able to fund all the R and D for EVs. No pickup is worth $100,000. You want the average sedan buyer to foot that bill? Camry owners would cry if they couldn’t afford their Pumpkin Spice Latte. (To any Camry owners out there, I’m just kidding. I like Pumpkin Spice donuts myself.)
300+ seems right. That number makes road trips seem more possible and less worrisome for me. I know I can “make do” with much less because I can and would charge at home almost all of the time. However, I spent a solid month on the road this summer and I didn’t have to spend anytime at all thinking about or planning how I was going to refuel my ICE car. I can get 500+ miles of range in minutes. Charging time remains a bigger hang up for me than range ultimately. I don’t mind stopping more frequently, I just want those stops to be quick!
My current car has around a 500km range- for going to work I only need 30km max, but for weekends 250 km would be sufficient, almost like an additional battery or range extender would be ideal here
I really think we need to reconsider the “most people charge at home” trope. The whole idea is very chicken-and-egg.
Most *current* EV owners charge at home. Because EV tend to be expensive, and people who can afford expensive cars probably own the sort of house where EV charging is feasible. It also leaves at least 1/3 of American car owners out of the EV picture. Even if 100% of homeowners owned EV, that leaves a lot of people driving ICE cars.
In order to advance the adoption of EV for millions of Americans, fast, easy, cheap, convenient charging needs to be available for the folks who CAN’T charge at home.
Renters aren’t figured into the EV equation. Even if it’s the type of property where each tenent has a designated parking space (as opposed to parking on the street) landlords aren’t going to benevolently install charging capabilities. And if they ever did, they’d jack up their ridiculously high rents even more.
And as for charging at work, how many employers who won’t even give cost-of-living raises are going to install charging stations? They’re more likely to think, “Well, if you can afford a new EV then you’re certainly making more than enough money.”
Depends on the automobile.
My standards for BEVs are much lower for BEV vans because I don’t mind traveling a short distance then plugging in if I got nearly all the amenities of home (via a camper conversion) and the same goes for if I’m stuck plugged in for a while because the snow is too deep. An example would be a Nissan e-NV200 with a shower, toilet, and bed.
For a BEV I cannot sleep in comfortably it needs to have Much greater range, ground clearance, and general capability (like AWD) so that I can make sure I can get back home or back to wherever I’m staying. An example would be a 2 door Jeep style BEV
For a BEV I can sleep in comfortably but isn’t set up as a camper I can get away with less range than one I cannot sleep in comfortably but it’ll need just as much ground clearance as the one I cannot sleep in comfortably and be just as capable.
An example would be an Electric 4 door Suzuki Jimny with the fold flat seats like the current Gen Jimny.
That being said my use case is much more relaxed than most. I think Range Extended BEVs are the answer to the problem of long range at high speeds as far as BEVs are concerned.
I think 300 miles is about right. That’s about three days of long commutes, assuming you forgot to plug the car in overnight twice and don’t have time to find a Level 3 charger.
Yeah, road-tripping is a pain with that range, but I think it will become much less so as Level 3 charging becomes more commonplace. An extra 15 minutes for charging every few hours isn’t that big a deal over the course of an all-day trip, especially if you use that time for a meal, bathroom break for the kids or dog, catch up on your emails, etc.
Really it the most you can get.
350+ in a commuter is good and allows for side trips, weather conditions, etc.
As far as worst day of the year, I take numerous 1000+ mile trips a year. Having something high range and fast charging in a must. With ICE I can do most trips in 1 to 1.5 days, not sure how that translates to EV. As the tech improves, I see these numbers becoming better.
TL;DR – 350mi @ 80mph provided chargers spaced no more than 30mi apart along interstates and can restore the 350mi range in 20min
I recently did a CA-AR round trip. We stopped to fill up on average about 300-350 miles and by that time we wanted out of the car for a while. About 20 minutes to shop and snack and stretch while the car charges is about right. I’d be willing to tolerate an 80% recharge if it can be done in 10min. If I can get these kind of numbers and charger distribution then range anxiety would be a non-issue for me.
But this ignores a lot of the ‘givens’ stipulated. If we’re ignoring the concept of long haul road trippin’ and “fill-up” because it won’t be feasible for a decade or more then the current state of EV’s is fine.
Imagine that period when the number of charging stations hasn’t caught up with the number of EVs on the road, and you need to wait in line 20-30 minutes for your 10 minute charge.
I think a key part of this discussion is recharge time. Being able to regain 200 miles of range for the Ioniq in 18 minutes is huge. I rarely drive more than 3-4 hours without stopping to stretch, eat, etc. So the Ioniq is only marginally more inconvenient than my ICE vehicle on long trips and 360 miles + 200 miles gets me plenty far enough for a day’s driving on a road trip. Almost as bad as the Mazda’s range is that it takes a long time to recharge it.
If ditching before end of warranty period, 500, if keeping for after warranty, a bit north of 500 so it degrades down to 500
That’s about my limit for a day trip, when I start thinking about maybe stopping someplace for the night, and my car as it is does 550-600 on a tank, if I fill before I hit the road, I never need to top off en route. That would fit my lifestyle pretty decently with no compromises, once chargers exist in the sorts of places I frequent
300 miles at highway speeds I think is enough for me these days. That’s 4 hours straight at 75 mph, which is about as long as I’d want to go without any stops. That will also get you another 3+ hours of driving when recharging to 80%.
Some EVs are already there or close to it, but the bigger issue is charging. If I can’t rely on having a working charger where I need it then I’m not taking that vehicle on a road trip and I need to have a second vehicle. That’s a tough sell.
In theory an EV could be a great fit for me (I could easily charge at home), but outside of a Tesla I’m not confident it would work in practice.
I think 100mil with a range extending small engine like the BMW i3 is the best solution right now. Once infrastructure and battery technology gets better, then I’d go full EV
For some reason I would be OK with 300 miles. So Hyundai’s 360 is good with a little security blanket built in. I live in a house with a garage so a charger would have to be part of my EV budget. At this point in time I would never consider an EV if I couldn’t charge at home. That’s just me being overly cautious.
250-300 actual, real world miles is about what most ICE cars will give you on a full tank and the top end of that range would work for me…and I don’t mean these pie in the sky EPA range estimates that the cars are incapable of actually hitting in real life. I mean actual travel miles on real roads, with real traffic, at varrying speeds, and in weather conditions that aren’t ideal.
In real world applications EVs seem to hit about 70-80% of their advertised range, so 375-400 miles of EPA/manufacturer reported range would probably be adequate to hit the 300 mark. If a manufacturer other than Tesla comes out with an EV that can do that consistently for 60 grand or less and still offer some fun I’ll be ready to consider switching. I don’t think such a vehicle exists currently but in a couple of years it will and the infrastructure will have made strides. I think that’ll be when I start to seriously consider the switch.
I agree with this take, but my numbers are a bit lower. If I’m charging at home nightly, then I can get away with about 250 real world miles. With that, I probably wouldn’t charge every night. Also, I’m looking at ~30 grand instead of 60. The Ioniq 6 goes for a bit more than that, but I’m thinking it’s a viable option.
The Ioniq 6 is pretty tempting for me. The range is good enough. The design is nice. Hyundai dealers are particularly craptastic, but I would hope not to deal with them much beyond just buying the car.
I’ve thought for a bit now that my ideal would be something I could drive 4 hours at 60-70 mph. 240-280 mile highway range, preferably all within the 10-80% fastest charging band. Drive 4 hours, stop and stretch and maybe eat a sit down meal, get going again. It’d be better for my body than driving 6 hours straight, as I do too often, and it would be enough to make good progress when driving. But, realistically, I can settle for less, especially if charging infrastructure expands that takes advantage of the fastest charging architecture available.
I think 500 is going to be a magic number for wider adoption, though. It just sounds sufficiently large to a lot of people. But there will, of course, be a number of people who will decide they need more than that. The people who want to drive 8 hours at 70 mph aren’t going to be happy until they see 560 miles of all-highway range. Tow vehicles are going to be rough.
Until you can reliably get that 360 mile range recharged in under 10 minutes without having to sign up or into an app, there won’t be a long enough range as far a most middle American suburbanites are concerned.
For my work commute, 150 is enough to get there and back with plenty of extra in case I have to run an errand.
But what do I do when I have a road trip? I’m used to 1,000-mile days, with a hotel snooze in between.
Recent articles about road-tripping EVs point to broken chargers, chargers blocked by dick dozers, and battery depletion that skyrockets when towing, using a lot of climate control, or even just driving into a strong headwind. How long would it take me to get to the west coast?
With an ICE car, it takes two days. I’d be willing to stretch it to three in an EV. But beyond that, I’d be racking up a lot more lodging fees and basically doubling the travel time.
Based on my current vehicles 2-300 miles is reasonable for an all purpose vehicle expected to travel between cities and 100-150 for a lower cost second vehicle for local use
I misread this as 2,300 miles initially. I was going to ask if you routinely drive a day and a half in one sitting, but what you are saying makes sense.
But [insert edge case] would be impossible without [absurd figure] miles of range. EVs bad!
I have had the same fuel range requirement for all my car purchases. They have to make it to the corporate HQ and back without refueling, because1 day up and backs are awful enough without adding stops. That’s roughly 410 miles total, so lets put the range at 450 to avoid 0% battery concerns.
Yes, that’s a very “worst case” way to determine the number, but if I’m spending my money, that’s what it takes to entice me.
why not an EV which has 250 miles range. Charge it at the office (which you can’t do with ICE) and it’s full by the end of the day to drive back home.
If/when your corporate HQ install chargers, you’ll only need 225miles range, still with no refuelling stops. Destination chargers are a key part of the solution, work place charging an obvious benefit for company and employee.
And why would his corporate HQ install chargers? Until there are a lot more EVs on the road, it’s an awfully expensive outlay for a few employees. My employer was part of an office complex. It wouldn’t be up to them alone to install chargers (and I imagine that would be pretty expensive for the landlord since 90% of the parking was garage parking). A lot of business lease space, so it wouldn’t be up to them to install chargers (especially in shared office space).
They put in free charging at my office. During the recent unpleasantness some BEV drivers were WFH until they needed a charge, then it was time for an onsite day.
To be fair, there are chargers in the public garage. Unless something has changed, they had either a 1 or 2 hour limit, so you can’t just park there, you have to treat it like a parking meter and go through all that hassle. No thanks.
I would probably be happy with 360 miles, as long as that figure isn’t the result of some mathematically infeasible amount of planetary alignment and assorted balderdash.
IOW, can I do those 360 miles with a fully-loaded vehicle in a headwind and in very cold or very hot weather? If real-world testing shows that to be consistently possible with a given EV, then it has passed the first hurdle.
My ICE vehicle gets about 400 miles from a tank of dinosaurs; that drops slightly with a headwind but doesn’t seem to be too affected by using climate control, heated seats, etc. On Saturday I was heading to David’s party and passed a Tesla on the interstate that appeared to be doing noticeably under the speed limit (in the far right lane, surprisingly) in that headwind. I imagine that was to conserve power though there may have been another reason.
May I suggest range divided by average charging speed as the formula to determine the ideal number?
In any case, my personal experience is that 250 miles is plenty. More than enough for daily commute and also sufficient for the occasional road trip. 3 hours in between stops is about what anybody would do anyway.
This is a good idea. Range needed drops as charging speed increases. Maybe also include a multiplying factor for chargers available that charge at that speed. No point having a car capable of charging at average 300kW if there’s only one charger that offers this in the country.
Very good point. You can call it the “usability rate”.
For an extreme case, if we apply that formula to hydrogen cars, the multiplying factor is certainly crucial.
‘3 hours in between stops is about what anybody would do anyway.’
That’s a big no way from me. And I see this opinion all the time. People who have road tripped an ev all say the same thing; “Oh you have to stop every 2-3 hours to go to the bathroom and get something to eat and stretch your legs and blah blah.”
BS. I drive from Wisconsin to Oklahoma fairly frequently. An 11 hour drive and I stop once for gas and a bathroom. Give me the ev with a 600 mile range, anything else is useless.
I used to be able to do that.
Now I am old. I don’t want to sit that long. I want to get out and smell a rose or two.
200 miles is enough for me. But, that’s 200 miles on every given day, including that day a couple weeks ago where the high was 6F and the wind chill was -20. So, whatever “range” is needed to hit that.
200 miles of real world, non-ideal condition range is good for me also. Of all the EVs I considered, they all had EPA ratings of 250-275 miles. When my wife and I did some hypothetical trips, that range was sufficient for 95% of our needs.