Earlier this year I went on a trip to see the cars of Hagerty’s vaunted Bull Market list. The editors went out of their way to establish that this isn’t about finding a cheap investment car that’ll be worth something someday. Instead, the premise is that the cars they listed were relatively undervalued and therefore more approachable for enthusiasts at different price points.
A vintage car’s value, like the value of most non-essential items, is based on what people will pay and not some sort of inherent worth. If the ability to perform the task of moving people, which is a car’s core purpose, was the main arbiter of merit then Bring A Trailer would be overwhelmed with 15-year-old Toyota Sienna minivans and not finicky Alfa Romeos.
The valuableness of a vintage car isn’t entirely arbitrary, of course. Old Alfa Romeos look and sound heavenly, in a way that’s almost objective. A Jaguar E-Type without a roof is more valuable than a Jaguar E-Type with a roof because it’s the iconic version of that particular car. But it does start to get a little random as you get deeper into the hobby.
Another car on that list was the DeLorean DMC-12, a vehicle that’s not great in a lot of ways. It’s a sports car that won’t sports. It’s not that quick, being way heavier than originally conceived. It’s part of a brand that no longer exists, so it doesn’t have the lineage of a Porsche or a Ferrari. It’s got an unloved French-conceived V6 behind the driver, they break all the time, and are best enjoyed at about 35 miles per hour.
And, yet, they’re valuable. Sure, they look cool, but so does a Saab Sonnett, which shares many traits with the DMC-12. A Sonnett is also, in a way, probably more fun to drive. But it wasn’t in a movie and it doesn’t have those doors [Ed note: don’t sleep on the Sonnett’s manual pop-ups, though– Pete]. A more modern example is the BMW i8. This is a car that looks cool, has fun doors, and does almost nothing particularly well. It looks like a supercar and doesn’t really perform like one. This is why they’ve depreciated so quickly.
Will those values ever come back? David tends to think the answer is “no” and he’s crazy for his similar i3 so I’d listen to him. I think the same is true of the Saab Sonnett, which will always be a great deal. They’re not alone. There are plenty of cool classic cars that might never cost that much. Is this a bad thing? Nope. I agree with Hagerty that it’s great that there are still affordable ways to do this hobby.
Image: Curb Your Enthusiasm
You can still get driver quality Model Ts for $10k or less. You can get an older restoration one for maybe $15k. I’m not sure what a really nice one goes for, but I can’t imagine paying more $25-30k.
Please don’t draw attention to this market. I’m quietly waiting for the right one to turn up locally-ish at a good price.
How local are you?
https://www.facebook.com/share/17V4tmMMLv/
That’s a… Corvair in Oklahoma. I’m thinking more along the lines of a Model T near Seattle. Having had a Corvair, I don’t know that I need another one just yet.
Oops! I thought you were replying to my comment about how cheap Corvairs are. I’m not near Seattle, but there was a Model T that came out of a collection near me that was an older restoration, but had been parked awhile. They were asking something like $8k. Couldn’t believe it.
Okay, this one is local to ME, but I’ll go look at it for you, if you want.
https://www.facebook.com/share/1DHjjs9SEx/
I appreciate the thought but I’m leaning more towards a closed car, given the weather here. Besides, although I have certainly purchased vehicles at a distance sight-unseen, Model Ts are still common enough in this area that I’m willing to gamble on encountering something I like nearby.
Cadillac ELR, It’s the Cadillac of Chevy Volts! It’s got really cool looks and is a proper PHEV with decent range. Also in the line of Cadillacs, the last of the Devilles, you could get them with night vision, and whenever I see one I’m like, that’s the car I need when I’m 80, but there probably won’t be many around, and the electrics on them will probably be all crud.
The ELR knocks it out the park with all the comfort of the Volt, the parts availability of the XLR, and the general build quality of post-bailout GM. It does look pretty good though…
But Volts are pretty reliable, right? If you can get past CUE, I’d bet the ELR is a way nicer single-occupant commuter than its platform-mate.
Yeah, I suppose so, though I think the ELR was also peak capacitive-touch everything on the interior.
The 1st gen Volt had capacitive touch too, wasn’t terrible as still had little bumps to kind of find what you were looking to press. The ELR at least looked closer to it’s concept, compared to the Volt sold as a 4 door Camaro and then comes out as a Cruze with a body kit.
Triumph TR6 and GT6. You can find a genuinely nice TR6 for $15k and pristine ones for $20-25k. The GT6 is only slightly more, with nice ones around $20k and pristine ones around $30k. They have gone up considerably since my brother had a GT6 three decades ago, but even then a good one commanded $10k, so they haven’t really appreciated much at all.
Make sure you get a late generation GT6, the first ones had dangerous rear swing axle suspension. A very bad idea for a sports car
Indeed. My brother had a ’69, which (if memory serves) was the first year of the revised suspension. It also means the less attractive front end, but he just ran without a bumper and got an aftermarket grill to make it look a bit more like the earlier ones.
I honestly think the ZZW30, AKA the 3rd Gen Toyota MR2. Not Lightweight or Supercharged like the AW11, Nor the powerhouse that is the SW20, with its 3SGTE and Ferrari-esque good looks.
It came with an auto with manual shift capabilities or a 5 speed with the milk-toast 1zzge. Yes you can do the 2zzge/six speed swap that Toyota SHOULD have done, but you’re running into more complicated wiring and stuff where the previous two generations can handle it better. It had great Handling, eh decisive styling. If you want an Elise or Exige, not a bad idea on the cheap, but it will not look good as the Lotuses.
I would bring up the MG-F but holy crap are those things selling pretty cheap, probably for good reasons (as a Yankee.)
Perhaps debatable as to whether people think it’s cool or not but my 1988 Jaguar XJ6 (XJ40 factory code, also known as the red-headed stepchild of Jaguars) would certainly seem to apply. I don’t think it will ever be that valuable. Nonetheless, I still enjoy owning and driving mine.
I want an XJ6…but an earlier model. Preferably before the long wheelbase was a requirement. 1JZGTE-Swap for the win.
A 2000+ xjr w brembos if you want something nice to drive but classic, a 2004+ aluminum xj is boring but nice. 300hp from the non supercharged ones has nice mpg and ok fast.
I think the 95-97 X300 XJ6 is the sweet spot if you can find one. Nearly as pretty as the best of the series cars, but with none of the issues. But I have heard that the XJ40s actually ride better than the later cars, and I always keep my eyes open for a nice one at a good price. The later V8 cars lost something in the ride/handling mix and generally don’t feel as bespoke inside. The extra power is meh if it lacks that old school Jaguar smooth.
Anything I own, until six months after I sell it, at which point it will skyrocket in value.
Serious answer: Opel GT and Manta. Even nice ones just don’t seem to be all that desirable or valuable, even though they’re really cool and fun little cars.
Corvair?
Yeah, I’m always surprised how affordable most Corvairs are.
Yeah, I’ve had mine for years and it hasn’t appreciated a penny, hasn’t depreciated (in constant dollars, it has with inflation), which is kind of why I bought it. I had been looking for a Karmann Ghia or Beetle, but the prices for decent examples of those have gotten a little stupid in recent years
It is BANANAS how cheap Corvairs are!! I was looking recently, and you can get a decent driver for well under $5k!! And that was for a 2nd gen coupe with replaced floors!
A first gen convertible running but needing some work was about the same. You can’t buy a 1st gen Camaro SHELL for that! And I think a Corvair looks better! Second gen, at least.
Oh yeah, Corvairs are seriously undervalued!
Saab 9-2X, a WRX in a nice dinner jacket. It’s a car that shouldn’t have existed but that’s why I love it
Is it inexpensive ?
Oh baby! Is it ever! The hardest part is finding one to buy!
Depends on where you are. In the Northeast they are priced higher than the WRX they are based on for a good one.
I owned two of those. Underrated for sure.
Ford Ranger and all other 1982 mini pickup trucks. (43 years old now)
I just saw a Facebook listing for a 2011 Ranger with 26,000 miles. They were asking $23k for it. I’m guessing that’s about what it cost new.
That’s an “I know what I got.” based on the mileage. Car Gurus has a 2011 Sport edition with 93,582 miles for $14,584 and is $1,664 above market. So, $12,920 for a proper sticker price. Take another 10% off as standard haggling, you end up with $11,720. About average for a used pickup.
Here’s an ultra rare electric 1998 Ranger with 28,011 miles for $14,998
1998 Ford Ranger Electric – $14,998 – CarGurus
Probably less. They had cash on the hood back then.
You could buy brand-new Toyota mini pickups in 1982 for like $5k – they were great little bargains. I think the 1983 Olds Cutlass I had originally stickered for something like $10K, so the mini pickups were a great bargain.
While all air-cooled VW prices have been steadily climbing for ages, Super Beetles seem to be doing so at a much slower rate. I’ve seen nice, all original or restored Supers go for ~$10k or less. If that sounds like a lot for a Beetle, check out the prices, particularly on those made before 1968. The Supers aren’t considered as stylish as the standard Beetle, and the MacPherson strut suspension is prone to shimmies which require a full front end rebuild to truly eliminate. And the 73-74 Supers have a rounded windshield and a real dashboard. Nicer to live with, but farther away from the Beetle’s spartan beginnings. That’s not hating on them, Super Beetles are a great way to get into air-cooled VWs and not break the bank. I’ve got a 1972 myself.
I guess it depends on your definition of “valuable”. Nice condition Saab Sonetts are not all that cheap anymore – I have had two ’69 Sonett V4s. Easly $25K+ for a good one. Even more for a good V4 or Stroker. The Sonett IIIs are cheaper because there are so many more of them out there. Basket cases are cheap for a reason.
I think a better example is my Triumph Spitfire. There are just too many of them around for them ever to be worth all that much. $10-12K gets you a GREAT one. MGBs are much the same, though more like $15K-20K these days for a good one.
I guess it depends on your definition of “valuable”. Nice condition Saab Sonetts are not all that cheap anymore. Easly $25K+ for a good one.Even more for a good V4 or Stroker. The Sonett IIIs are cheaper because there are so many more of them out there.
I think a better example is my Triumph Spitfire. There are just too many of them around for them ever to be worth all that much. $10K gets you a GREAT one. MGBs are much the same, though more like $15K-20K these days for a good one.
Grew up with a gen 2 Sonnett. Way fun to hoon.
Been looking for a decent one for years, but rust and owner neglect has sort of killed that search.
I follow sonnetts on bring a trailer and some are very nice.
My mistake, again. I meant we had a Sonnett 3rd generation. I look at the BAT listings too for something affordable. Then I stop because the fear of parts availability kicks in…I can do fiberglass work well, but the mechanical bits might be harder to deal with.
My dad bought his new in 1971. So much fun.
Cadillac Allanté. A comfy front-drive convertible built with the assistance of Pininfarina design and a production line involving 747s. Nice driver-quality examples can still be found all over for four-figure prices.
I bet the Buick Reatta runs similarly these days…
Very true – I saw one in pretty-much showroom condition with low miles at a show last summer and I think they were asking around $12K for it.
I might be wrong, but the Honda CRZ.
The other I’d say is the Scion tC.
The irony of the tC was that it seemed to represent Toyota finally getting the Celica concept right for the market again. But I guess making it an athletic but reasonably-proportioned coupe instead of an exercise in overstyled boy racer aesthetics will doom any later collectability.
15 years ago, I had the chance to buy an E30 M3 for $12k and I thought they were nuts for asking such a high price.
Yeah…
But as far as classic cars that won’t ever be super valuable, I’d say any Japanese car that wasn’t featured in a movie or video game. Of course, vaunted cars like the Hakosuka Skyline and 2000GT have exploded in value, but I’m thinking like the Toyota Crown, 300ZX, etc.
Rambler American. Reason being is that they were AMC’s family car. AMC has been a dead brand since 1987, and hasn’t been a part of public consciousness since at least 1980. Rambler was also a section of AMC’s total lifetime, starting in 1958 and being abandoned in 1969, and there’s confusion among the more shallow grade enthusiasts (not shallow as in vanity, shallow as in their depth of knowledge) as to whether Rambler was a model under AMC or whether Rambler was like a lineup in the same way the Volvo 200/700 series were. This means the ’66 and ’67 Rambler American is a killer car because they make as much horsepower as a Windsor equipped Mustang GT of the same year but cost as much as a fifteen year old Ford Escape.
Triumph, MG, Jag XJ-6
Most Maseratis
I mean Maseratis from 1980s to today
Triumphs and MG stay cheap due to shear ubiquity – but GOOD XJ6s are getting *expensive*. Especially the rarer variants like the coupes and the V12s. But like everything, they are just too common to ever be worth tons of money, any more than a ’60s 4dr Impala will be.
Though not ALL Triumphs – TR3s-TR6s are starting to bring real money, especially the 3s, 4s, and 5/250s.They will never be Ferraris, but they aren’t cheap cars anymore either.
Personally I’m all-in on the Triumph Acclaim.
LOL – definitely one of the nicer Honda Civics ever built. You’d need to have an original Honda Crossroad in the garage complement it.
I want a set of Crossroad badges for my Disco I so badly to screw with people.
Ford Probe.
Engaging performance but with good economy, a reasonable amount of usable space for what it is, all wrapped up in a pleasingly futuristic (1st gen)/athletically sporting (2nd gen) design, a two-door hatch with popups no less!
But they don’t seem to have been built for the long haul, and nobody’s really interested in the wares of the sportcoupe era any longer.
As an owner I hate saying this, but R107 and R129 generation Mercedes SLs. High production numbers, somewhat complex maintenance, and negligent owners makes it so you can always find a somewhat clean “driver” quality SL in the $10k range
I’d sure like to find a driver quality R107 or R129 for $10K.
$12-15K was the price for one 10 years ago – Now it’s closer to $25-30K.
$10K gets you a high-mileage SL w significant needs nowadays.
We might have different definitions of driver quality. I also probably shouldn’t have grouped R107 and R129 in the same price bucket. Looking at bringatrailer R107s command about 50% more than R129s, but you can still find a decent car with a less desirable powertrain combination for around $15k
This was my experience getting my ’88 560SL 4ish years ago.
A decent drivable model with 100k ran about $18-$25k. Really well sorted ones were $25-$35k. Well sorted and sub 30k miles got expensive.
The non-560 models were all a lot cheaper, by quite a margin. You can get the R107 “look” for $10-12k if you don’t care about the 5.6L V8.
If you don’t care about wear and tear or the 5.6L, you can get into a running, drivable R107 for under $10k, but it’s going to cost you real money to maintain, so it may not be the best option.
I’m OK doing basic work on the car, so we got a mechanically sound one with 105k miles and cosmetic wear and tear on the driver side in the cabin, loose door handle, missing map pocket, broken chrome trim, loose visor rod, that sort of thing. The owner took good care of it and also drove it a lot until he died, and that’s always a mixed blessing. The transmission did die on me, so that was an expensive fix, but other than that it’s been a delight. For less than an entry-level Kia Niro, I get a gorgeous soft and hard top convertible with a killer engine and driving dynamics. It’ll never be valuable, so I don’t worry about it and just drive it, like it was designed to do.
I know what brand new car which is a successor of a highly valuable old car that will never be valuable because the manufacturer can’t sell the new ones for anywhere near MSRP:
Mercedes-AMG (R232) SL
For that matter, the R230 and R231 SLs (original or facelift) will never be valuable either.
They’re just too complex, problematic and, in some cases, downright ugly.
If we’re talking new cars, I’d put most of not practically all of the current BMW models into this category. Also the newer Cameros. And Audis… geez lots of stuff.
Classics become classics because they look good and are looked back upon fondly by people that aspired to have them back when they couldn’t get them. They eventually get trounced by more modern technology (a modern Accord would outrun most ’80s Ferraris), but the desire from back in the day lingers
I don’t pine for a recent BMW, Camero or Audi, and the “car” people I know feel the same way.
The modern car scene kind of reminds me of the modern music scene. There’s some flash in the pan songs that pop up here and there (no offence to the Swifties) but there’s a reason there are a lot of ’80s & ’90s (especially ’80s) radio stations out there. Modern music just doesn’t do it for a lot of people; modern cars are the same way.
My 2¢, anyway.
I think you will be surprised as time goes by. People do long for what they couldn’t have in their youth. There are a lots of “oldies” stations playing 80s music today, but there are nowhere near as many “oldies” stations playing 50s music as there were when I was in high school in the ’80s.
Same with cars – ’60s muscle cars have peaked and ’80s and ’90s cars are taking their place as time marches on. 50’s cars have fallen considerably. Who knows, in 30 years a couple of dudes may bid themselves into a frenzy over a mint-condition BMW XM at Mecum. Won’t be me, but you never know.
You’re probably right, on both counts.
That said, I think ’80s may have been peak music, and we’ve been moving through a malaise era for the last decade or two. Hopefully something fresh will come along (or revert back – Blinding Lights felt a lot like an ’80s song) and we’ll crawl out of the trough.
I think we’re in a malaise era for car design too – everything looks like something else (CT not withstanding) and/or not really great, and everything is some shade of white/gray/silver/black.
It’s been awhile since I saw a new car in the wild that I thought was a really good looking car. We’re probably past peak car styling, too. (And no, that most definitely didn’t peak in the ’80s.) I’m not sure we’re going to crawl out of this trough though (*cough* JaGUar *cough*).
I think it’s hard to say the 80s were peak music, especially since it’s hard to compare the production models of the two. 80s hits were more artistic than today’s lowest-common-denominator fare, but you can find new music in any niche today. On the reversion point, check out “Tweaker” by LiAngelo Ball, which is being acclaimed for sounding like 2005,
I think that you’re fairly biased for saying everything looks samey, when you could say that about any era of car design. I’d say that designers might have too much freedom with lighting and too little in terms of form, but I think we’re seeing some unique stuff right now.
Unique, yes. Pretty, not so much to my eyes.
Radio as a medium is in a malaise era, but not music as a whole. Creating and releasing music is more accessible than ever thanks to Youtube, SoundCloud, etc. There are so many new artists and genres it’s hard to discover them all, so it’s almost guaranteed you can find some great stuff if you really look.
But radio has to make money, so they bank on the safe mass market pop stuff. Artist is well known? Play it. Song was in a big movie? Play it.
Radio right now is close to the Payola era of the 50s in a way.
I dunno, personally I prefer 70s music to 80s music (but there is plenty of 80s and 90s music I like), but I am verging on being an old. But I agree that for ME, the past couple decades haven’t been amazing musically. When I hear a song I like these days, I buy the MP3 of it, but unlike back in the day, there aren’t really entire albums that I love. The Swifties will certainly disagree with us.
I think cars peaked overall in the late 90s to ’00s. Malaise may be too strong a word for today though. Objectively, the average car is really pretty good today with a level of performance that can be hard to believe. Very reliable, last a long, long time. Though that is trending downward a bit due to ever-more stringent emissions regs forcing more complexity. But subjectively, ugh. And I agree, originality is dead, other than the ones that are just stupid, like the CyberTurd.
I do wonder if the youths of today just don’t listen to much radio – because I agree there are very few radio stations playing anything new. Maybe the kids are all spotify or tidal? I do feel like I don’t know much about any modern-ish music. The youngster’s I know seem to love classic rock as much as anything, or rappers they find just so that they can impress their friends at how esoteric their musical tastes are. One early-20’s relative says he likes turn of the century/classic rap/hip-hop – which I can respect. Radio needs advertisers and I do wonder if, due to their college debt outrageous housing costs, etc. the younger generation just doesn’t have much disposable cash so the advertisers may be looking for a slightly older audience than we were in previous decades (who has more $).
There is a local music venue near me that hosts lots of live music and does a good job of bringing amazing original acts that I have never heard of to the stage – but these acts are not getting too much attention beyond festivals or smaller rooms, even the grammy nominated ones.
I think Lancia Fulvias are super cool, but few people know them here and they’re FWD so I don’t seem them ever hitting Alfa money even though they were direct competitors in the day.
I’d love to own a Fulvia, and whenever I’ve peeked at listings, the prices have been (to my mind) surprisingly low. Not low enough for me to *actually* own a Fulvia, however.
The coupes have shot up a lot in the last few years. The Berlina on the other hand is unlikely to see the same increase, but are a handsome car.
Maybe 1.6HFs, but the rest seem to have been flat from what I’ve seen. The coupes got an early covid bump but have since settled a bit.
1970-1977 Capri
I’ve paid $200 each for two of the three my family has owned (one of those ran and drove), and my father paid $1000 for the one with working A/C.
You can still find them pretty close to that cheap if you look long enough.
If you know, give me location information. Even if it’s a basket case I will put the car back together if it really is just $200. I’ve never seen one below $2,000 unless half of it had been turned into iron oxide.
Great choice, but they virtually never show up around here, in any condition.
I had friends that were buying at these kinds of prices in the early 1980’s!
I’m terrible at this game. I remember when VW buses were dirt cheap and practically given away. Seriously, we had one in the family that at some point my aunt inherited but she didn’t want to work on it and tried to give it to me for free and I was like nah, I’ve got enough projects already. This was maybe 20 years ago, buses weren’t worth more than a few hundred dollars, now they’re practically priceless. I never would have thought that would happen.
It does kinda depend of the bus – the 21 window buses are way expensive.
The Pontiac Solstice Coupe. With either engine, they are fun cars that an American company will never make the likes of again. They weren’t expensive when they came out and are quite reasonably priced today. Even the convertible is a bit under appreciated as Mercedes well knows. They will never really go up in value as everyone that has one tends to keep it. And others will avoid it do to lack of part availability or unawareness of a Miata alternative.
They sure are good looking car. I was team Sky when they came out, but the Solstice style has really grown on me in recent years. The coupe is just beautiful.
I’d personally love a Sky Redline but they have crept up in price to the point where it makes more sense to buy a new Miata instead.
It took me a second to interpret “Mercedes” as “Mercedes Streeter” not the German Headquartered automobile company ;-).
It’s time once again for:
The one-N Sonett,
He’s a Swede.
The two-N sonnet,
Verse you read.
And I would bet
An Easter bonnet
There ain’t no
Two-N, two-T sonnett.
(Apologies to Ogden Nash.)
The pre-wedge body style is the prettiest, IMO. And it is one of the few platforms you can buy for 5-figures or less that has a better overall efficiency than a 1st gen Honda Insight, even if only slightly so.